Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

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coola
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Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by coola » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:59 pm

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but series such as Urusei Yatsura are even older then Dragon Ball, yet they can look very good on Blu ray https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hulET9tn9M maybe Toei will release pre Kai material on Blu-ray, and it wont look oversaturated and/or have details removed? Main problem for Dragon Ball Z Blu Ray, was that it was too expensive and didn't sold enough to justify costs, and for Sailor Moon, Viz hired crappy company to do remaster from masters they got
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Wezenheim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:13 pm

Funny that you mention the Z Blu rays, as they are on sale right now on Amazon. I bought a few myself. I wish Funi would release the original Dragon Ball for Blu Ray as well, but I feel like they would have done it already if they were going to. I don't know if Toei or Funi have anymore plans to touch up the series for another home release.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by GTX » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:18 pm

It will be good on blue ray if the price was not cheap compare to normal good anime blue-ray price, i think.
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:46 pm

coola wrote:Correct me, if I'm wrong, but series such as Urusei Yatsura are even older then Dragon Ball, yet they can look very good on Blu ray
Anything can look good on Blu-ray with a proper master. Age is irrelevant.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Puto » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:23 pm

Wezenheim wrote:I wish Funi would release the original Dragon Ball for Blu Ray as well
As far as we can tell, FUNimation don't have the necessary materials to get the original Dragon Ball in HD beyond the first 13 episodes.
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:19 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:Anything can look good on Blu-ray with a proper master. Age is irrelevant.
This. All Blu-Ray does is allow for greater detail. If the video materials are in poor condition, it just means that people are going to be able to see--in much greater detail--how poor the video looks.

This isn't completely accurate, but a more simplified way of putting it is this: for the most part, what makes a video look good is the mastering (or re-mastering process), Blu-Ray just magnifies the final result...if the final result is good, it'll look that much better on Blu-Ray, and if the final result is bad, it'll look that much worse on Blu-Ray.

Most unfortunately, Toei threw out a lot of the original materials, which is what would be needed to make the best final result. Even the video materials they held on to, which were original prints put into cold storage, have aged over time to the point where the colors are no longer completely accurate to either the original broadcast or the original animation cells.
Last edited by TheBlackPaladin on Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by ParkerAL » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:23 pm

If it was mastered from a film source, yes.

Unfortunately, Toei loves cheap SD upscales. It didn't even bother to source the Hols: Prince of the Sun Blu-ray from a HD source, which is a travesty considering that film's historical importance. If the studio's brass wouldn't give a film worked on by Studio Ghibli's founders a proper Blu-ray release, I doubt they'd give one to Dragon Ball.
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:26 pm

It's also important to remember that part of the reason Toei doesn't treat the original video and audio materials for the show with the reverence one might think is because, in Japan, the show itself was not the main product. In Japan, the show was created mostly to drive up merchandise sales, and that's kind of a reversal from how the show is viewed here, where the show itself is the main product. In Japan, the DVDs are kind of like glorified collector's items, with Toei taking the attitude of, "Wait, why do you want the show? It's just the show."
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:49 am

That's very true, BlackPaladin, though my example still illustrates Toei can and will cheap out on even a primary product. It comes down to the people in charge having no real appreciation for the studio's history, or the art of animation in general. Don't get me wrong, I understand Toei can't feasibly give every show it puts out a pristine remaster. It might not even make sense to release Dragon Ball on Blu-ray, considering its age and length. But it feels like every cel-animated show Toei gives a modern release these days ends up with a lackluster upscale. Saint Seiya. Sailor Moon. Digimon (though that one turned out pretty decent from what I've seen, and I forget whether it was cel animated, or an early digital job).


But what I know. I'll try to hold back from ranting any further.
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Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Son Edo » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:03 am

Australia needs a dragon ball update, our dvd sets are almost 10 years old.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by kei17 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:43 am

Here's some screencaps from my personal HD transfer of the film print that was used for Fuji TV's reruns. An official HD remaster would look better than this.

(Click for HD images)

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Raw scan:

Image In motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxXExmbu6qU

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by coola » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:47 am

I keep forgetting, that Urusei Yatsura was done by Studio Pierrot and then Studio Deen and Ranma 1/2 by Studio Deen for Kitty Films. I admit i don't understand, Toei is supposedly biggest anime company, yet they had no intention to properly preserve film masters. Urusei Yatsura was/is product to sell merchandise, yet series was released to VHS/Laserdiscs and later DVD/Blu-ray. Is this why even today, anime fans are not very happy, that Toei is given rights to anime adaptation, because they don't give shows enough respect?
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:53 am

By in large, it's because the company has a reputation for being cheap, lazy and borderline incompetent. At the very least, Toei doesn't do a particularly good job of mitigating that image. Sure, it tends to produce animated junk food, for the most part (not that I don't love those kind of series in any way) and it's hard to argue with Toei's business model, but a little additional artistic passion couldn't hurt. It doesn't help that the company doesn't have the best writers on hand these days, which hurts the filler it uses to pad its adaptations.

But there I go ranting again. :lol:

Those screens look amazing, kei. The crisp lineart and bold colors put the Dragon Boxes to shame. I personally wouldn't have toned down the film grain as much (which I assume you did, comparing the transfer screens with the raw) but the results are still very pretty.
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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by yamu » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:46 pm

I've seen many older movies such as It's A Wonderful Life, Evil Dead 2 and Lawrence of Arabia that have looked damn near brand new on blu ray, so would assume Dragon Ball has similar potential. Granted, those are live action examples. Aside from Dragon Ball, I would also like to see GT get a blu ray transfer, which I have been diligently waiting for.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:07 pm

yamu wrote:I've seen many older movies such as It's A Wonderful Life, Evil Dead 2 and Lawrence of Arabia that have looked damn near brand new on blu ray, so would assume Dragon Ball has similar potential. Granted, those are live action examples. Aside from Dragon Ball, I would also like to see GT get a blu ray transfer, which I have been diligently waiting for.
GT getting the Blu-Ray treatment is never gonna happen. Toei and FUNimation don't care enough for GT to give it that kind of treatment.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Araki » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:37 am

coola wrote:I keep forgetting, that Urusei Yatsura was done by Studio Pierrot and then Studio Deen and Ranma 1/2 by Studio Deen for Kitty Films. I admit i don't understand, Toei is supposedly biggest anime company, yet they had no intention to properly preserve film masters. Urusei Yatsura was/is product to sell merchandise, yet series was released to VHS/Laserdiscs and later DVD/Blu-ray.
Toei released a few old shows in blu-ray that looked just as good, like Saint Seiya and Slam Dunk. Kai 1.0 is on the same level. The problem with Dragon Ball is not old age or poor conservation - in fact, the Fuji tv rerun Kei posted above looks pretty good. It's just that DB is too long of a series and too overshadowed by DBZ for them to bother. It probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of a full remaster.

Funimation could be our hope, but the North American market often seems to forget DB exists.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Puto » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:27 am

Saint Seiya was a blatant upscale.
Blue wrote:I love how Season 2 is so off color even the box managed to be so.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by kei17 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:35 am

Puto wrote:Saint Seiya was a blatant upscale.
The same goes for Slam Dunk. Heavily DNR'ed blurry mess with washed-out colors. From what I can recall, Hokuto no Ken and DBZ are the only Toei TV series that have been transferred in HD.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by Araki » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:40 am

Puto wrote:Saint Seiya was a blatant upscale.
It still looked better than the dvds though. And to be fair, to this day there are new shows that are upscaled for blu-ray releases.
My point was that it has nothing to do with preservation, Toei can make a full remaster if they want to, they have the means and the material, but the sales of shows so long (and old) are usually too low to justify it.

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Re: Would Dragon Ball look good on Blu Ray?

Post by dougo13 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:06 pm

yamu wrote:I've seen many older movies such as It's A Wonderful Life, Evil Dead 2 and Lawrence of Arabia that have looked damn near brand new on blu ray, so would assume Dragon Ball has similar potential. Granted, those are live action examples. Aside from Dragon Ball, I would also like to see GT get a blu ray transfer, which I have been diligently waiting for.
Yes, but they probably cleaned up the masters, much as the film preservation societies and TCM have done on some films. But that's very costly and I can't see a company like Toei even doing it. Heck, I don't even know if there is a film society in Japan that is trying to preserve their film heritage much like AFI is doing:

http://www.afi.com/default.aspx

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