Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

[veku1]

I feel like by the end of the Saiyan arc Goku’s character arc was completed and it really wasn’t necessary to drag the series on any further. At the end of the 23rd tenkaichi budokai, we see Goku finally become world champion and marry his childhood girlfriend Chi-Chi. However, there was still a bit of development to be had and some questions to be answered. The Saiyan arc starts off by showing us Goku’s life as a father and a husband, which adds significantly to Goku’s character development. Shortly afterwards, we see probably the most important moment in the entire Dragon Ball franchise, and that is the reunion of Goku with his long lost brother Raditz. Raditz drops a nuclear bomb of character development on Goku. After all these years, we’re finally told why Goku had a tail, why he’s so naturally strong, and why he turned into a giant monkey at the site of a full moon. Additionally, Goku finally realizes that he killed grandpa Gohan. The Saiyan arc in short was the culmination of Goku’s character development. Goku learns more about himself in this arc than in any other Dragon Ball arc.

I feel like Toriyama could have just ended Dragon Ball after the Saiyan Arc and it would have been perfect. Vegeta gets killed by Krillin, no Namek trip, no Freeza, and no more Dragon Balls to revive the friends. It would have been a sad ending, but like I said, Goku’s character arc was complete at this point and there really was no reason to continue. Contrary to popular belief, I find Vegeta’s character arc to be incredibly overrated. Vegeta was great as a cunning and calculating villain, not as great as a whiny anti-hero who was obsessed with surpassing Goku. Goku had the best character arc in Dragon Ball and the series should have ended with it.

[z_cherub]

As far as tone, it could've ended right before Kuririn's death. From then on, it was a little darker.

As far as fully wrapping up Son's character, it could've ended after Freeza. He'd gone from a kid in the woods to the epitome of a warrior legend.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Nah. Just think of all the awesome stuff we wouldn't have if it ended there. No freeza, cell or boo. No androids, no trunks or adult gohan. No ssj or any of its forms. No namekians or kaioshin. No fusions. No videl or satan or saiyaman.

From a stroytelling perspective, if you had to end the manga before it did, the 23rd budoukai seems the best. Why end the series with a game changing revalation and not explore it? We didn't need to know why he had a tail, it a fantasy story. And we didn't need to see gohan if he's not going to grow.

Also, welcome to the forums!

[Tyro]

There's no way the Saiyan arc as it was written would have been a fitting end for Dragon Ball. It stands above all other arcs as being the one that best leads into the next. 1) You have Vegeta and Nappa name-dropping Piccolo's species, 2) They eventually say not to worry about keeping Piccolo alive because they'll just find the real Namekians and use their Dragon Balls, 3) When Goku laments losing his friends forever, Kuririn tells him just to worry about beating Vegeta and to fight somewhere far away because he doesn't want their friends' bodies in bad condition when they come back to life, 4) Vegeta lived and plotted to return to Earth, 5) At the end of the Saiyan arc Kaio says that stopping Vegeta was a good thing, but he wasn't the root of the evil.

So at best it would have required a significant change in direction.

[ABED]

I think a much better case can be made that Goku's arc was complete after finally winning the Tenkaichi Budokai.

A couple notes:
Chichi was never his girlfriend.
Raditz isn't really his long lost brother. Goku and the audience never knew of him, so there wasn't a catharsis or something like that when we meet him.
Telling Goku that he's an alien is a nice twist, but it's not something that desperately needed an answer. Dragon Ball is a quirky world with magic, dinosaurs, ki, and three eyed people.

[RandomGuy96]

Saying "this is the best place to end the series" for any arc never really made sense to me. It's not like Dragon Ball has a grand overarching plot with a set end.

[Kuririn Fan]

Fuck no, 23rd TB would be better ending but we would never experience the greatness of later arcs. The actual manga/Z ending is fine and it resolved everything. The "it should end/it was supposed to end with freeza/cell" stuff is getting really annoying.

[MajinMan]

I feel that the Saiyan arc is one of the worst places to end the series. Too much new stuff gets introduced for it to just end right there. Hell, I even think the Freeza arc is a bad ending too because it leaves the question of "what happens to Gohan?" and "what does Vegeta do on Earth?" The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai ending is probably the best in terms of "it should have ended here." The Cell arc would make a decent ending, but again, it makes us wonder what Gohan is going to do next.

At first I was not too fond of the actual ending of DB, but over the years I have come around to liking it. If you think about it, the Buu arc ending is probably the most fitting of them all.

[ABED]

Saying "this is the best place to end the series" for any arc never really made sense to me. It's not like Dragon Ball has a grand overarching plot with a set end.

No, but there are places where the story would be more dramatically satisfying if it ended there. The Saiyan arc isn't one of them because so much is left unresolved at the end.

The Cell arc would make a decent ending, but again, it makes us wonder what Gohan is going to do next.

That alone doesn't disqualify it from being a satisfying conclusion. The stories were resolved, and while you might wonder, there's still very clear indications of what he is going to do so you don't have to see it.

[MajinMan]

The Cell arc would make a decent ending, but again, it makes us wonder what Gohan is going to do next.

That alone doesn't disqualify it from being a satisfying conclusion. The stories were resolved, and while you might wonder, there's still very clear indications of what he is going to do so you don't have to see it.

That is true. I may have been a little hypocritical with what I said after that, and I should have worded this better, but I feel that for a story like Dragon Ball it isn't the best ending. That's what I wanted to convey about the Cell arc ending.

[ABED]

Maybe not the best ending, but certainly one that is satisfying. Do you think otherwise?

[MajinMan]

Maybe not the best ending, but certainly one that is satisfying. Do you think otherwise?

It's a "decent" ending like I said earlier. To me, from all the "possible endings," it's probably the second best behind only the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

[Cipher]

I don't think so, though I might say that for the Namek arc that completes what the Saiyan arc begins (I love the Boo arc as an ending, don't get me wrong, but there are certainly a number of things about the Namek arc that would "work" in that regard).

The Saiyan arc definitely feels like setup though. You have a huge expansion of the world, into space, teasing at the action bleeding into that setting. You have references to Piccolo's true species, which pays off in the following arc, and brings the focus back onto the series' titular objects. Finally, you have the start of a new arc for Goku, rather than wrapping anything up, or perhaps more light shed on an arc that begins during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai -- the idea that Goku's a dangerous adrenaline junkie constantly in need of better opponents. The Saiyan arc both ties that to his heritage and provides the most alarming example of it as he demands Kuririn let Vegeta go -- which, notions of mercy aside, places Goku clearly in the wrong the way it's portrayed in the manga and original anime; he's asking Kuririn to help him gamble with everyone's lives, and doesn't venture to justify it morally at all.

This too pays off in the following arc, with the equally dangerously portrayed Super Saiyan transformation and Goku's final interactions with Freeza. Goku accepting both sides of his heritage, also set up in this arc, come to bear on Namek during Vegeta's death as well.

So, no. I feel if the series were to end after the Saiyan arc, its final chapters would end up opening a number of world-building and character-centric doors that it oddly never ventures through.

I've only ever really seen three spots in the original story as offering truly coherent endings: the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Namek and Boo/the actual ending.

[Kuririn Fan]

Maybe not the best ending, but certainly one that is satisfying. Do you think otherwise?

Vegeta giving up on fighting and 30 year old Goku staying dead isn't really satisfying.

[Gorou]

Perfect ending of the original series is with Majin Buu, which concludes the story without losing a single enjoyable moment (everything that comes after is lower)

[ABED]

Maybe not the best ending, but certainly one that is satisfying. Do you think otherwise?

Vegeta giving up on fighting and 30 year old Goku staying dead isn't really satisfying.

Out of context, no. But Goku was happy about it, and he left the world in the hands of the strongest person of all time (as far as anyone knows at that point in the story). As for Vegeta not wanting to fight anymore, that is a satisfying conclusion of his story, though not the best one. The object of an asshole's obsession is dead, so he gives up on fighting.

[sintzu]

You couldn't end DB anywhere other than it's original ending cause there would be major questions unanswered and plot points unresolved.

23rd Tenkaichi arc : Where did Piccolo come from ? what was he ? why can Goku transform into a giant ape ?

Saiyan arc : Will Vegeta ever come back ? will they make it to Namek ? What's on Namek ? Who's the great evil King Kai was talking about ?

Freeza arc : When and how will Goku come back ? What will vegeta do to earth and everyone now that he's the strongest person there ? Gohan's potential was being teased for awhile so how much does he have ?

Cell arc : Goku & Vegeta's rivalry was never resolved so all the build up would've been for nothing and what about Gohan's potential ? was that all he had or was that just another small example of it ?

Buu arc : everything above and more was resolved so that was the perfect place to end it.

[ABED]

You couldn't end DB anywhere other than it's original ending cause there would be major questions unanswered and plot points unresolved.

23rd Tenkaichi arc : Where did Piccolo come from ? what was he ? why can Goku transform into a giant ape ?

Saiyan arc : Will Vegeta ever come back ? will they make it to Namek ? What's on Namek ? Who's the great evil King Kai was talking about ?

Freeza arc : When and how will Goku come back ? What will vegeta do to earth and everyone now that he's the strongest person there ? Gohan's potential was being teased for awhile so how much does he have ?

Cell arc : Goku & Vegeta's rivalry was never resolved so all the build up would've been for nothing and what about Gohan's potential ? was that all he had or was that just another small example of it ?

Buu arc : everything above and more was resolved so that was the perfect place to end it.

I'll grant you that Piccolo's origin was left unexplored, but it's a fantasy series with magic and dinosaurs and three eyed people, why Goku transforms into a giant ape was never a question that absolutely needed answering. I think the Freeza arc was a good place to end but with just a few minor tweeks. Gohan's potential was teased, but "how much does he have" isn't a question that needed answering. The obnoxious thing about his potential is that he always seemed to have more despite being drawn out several times. The Goku and Vegeta rivalry was ended the moment Goku turned Super Saiyan, he showed his overwhelming superiority at that point. The Buu arc wasn't the perfect place to end. Yes, all the questions were answered, but it's neither a dramatically satisfying conclusion, nor was the arc all that good. The show had jumped the shark by that point.

[MajinMan]

I JUST wrote a response to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai ending points written by sintzu, but my internet crashed as soon as I hit submit. ABED basically wrote what I had to say so there we go.

[sintzu]

I JUST wrote a response to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai ending points written by sintzu, but my internet crashed as soon as I hit submit. ABED basically wrote what I had to say so there we go.

This has nothing to do with the topic but if you write a long reply you should copy it in case something like that happens without you knowing.