Things that grind your gears

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huzaifa_ahmed
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by huzaifa_ahmed » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:46 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:I don't think Toei cares one bit about the dubs.
I would presume most likely not, from an artistic/respect perspective, however the money & influence it has simply for being American is pretty egregiously widespread. & they did use dub terms in the Super subs, so there's that.

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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:29 pm

When people use Dragon Ball going against it's norm and does something a cut above its usual story telling quality as a positive then relying on "Lolz! Its Dragon Ball! What do you expect?! Dostojevski?!" whenever people want it to try do that very same thing.

It can't go both ways, as Yoda once famously said: do or fuck off!
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by PremiumSalt » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:46 pm

Faulconer fans who act like his score is some great artistic achievement and the only "true score" for the series.
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Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by Esfír Dedragón » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:22 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Esfír Dedragón wrote:
AnimeMaakuo wrote:Anything produced after DBGT grinds my gears.
I feel the exact same way. Glad to know someone else shares this thought. :)
I think I can probably guess the reasons behind the sentiment, but from where I stand, there's no substantive difference between GT and anything else that came after EoZ. Why do you draw the line at GT specifically?

I suppose that I draw the line (somewhat) after GT for the reason that, while the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z anime were adaptations of a Toriyama-centric source material (the Dragon Ball manga), GT was an experiment that attempted to test the idea that a post-manga creation with little to no input by Toriyama could still be entertaining, intelligent, and coherent enough to watch. It failed, badly.

Granted, the 13 DBZ animated movies had bare-bones involvement of Toriyama, but they were obviously never meant to plausibly "fit" in with the manga. Call it a "what-if", an alternate realty, etc.

After GT, despite the video games that explored some original ideas and somewhat expanded the story, fans may have wanted more from Toriyama, but it was clear that he wanted nothing more to do with the franchise. Until, DBE appeared...

The OVA from 2008 was pointless and both Battle of Gods and Resurrection F were devoid of any excellent plot points and decent character ideas (Examples: Super Saiyan God? Really? Just red-colored Goku in his normal form? Super Saiyan Blue?! It's just Super Saiyan painted blue! FRIEZA IS BACK... AND CAN COMPETE WITH SSBlue GOKU?!?!?!?!). However, I'll admit that the idea of a God of Destruction was something that I actually loved.

Dragon Ball Super comes around and here I was, hoping that nearly 20 years later, Toei and Toriyama would put in their best efforts in continuing the story. Surely, we were about to see something new and exciting that would at the very least entertain us, just like the old days!

But, no. That didn't happen. What we got was something so cheap, rushed, and half-baked that it made me wonder just how could Toei have thought that it was a good idea to present a new Dragon Ball series that way. When you then discover that Toriyama, more or less, approves of it or comes up with it, you realize that your expectations were too high.

Even with all the flaws that the original franchise had, I was hoping that some, if not all, mistakes would not be repeated. I was wrong. I was so wrong.

I tend to find some good thing in some episodes, though. I laugh, I gasp, I cheer, etc. But those moments are becoming more rare as the series continues.

Truly, we should all be thankful that the manga and anime ended where it did, with all it's strengths and weaknesses. Who knows what Toriyama could have come up with? :/
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:46 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: That's just poor direction.
Or maybe the voice actors themselves can't scream that well.
I doubt anyone could be so bad at yelling, but if that's the case, it's just poor casting.
Kirby Morrow wasn't exactly very good at screaming as Goku.
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by PeanutSaiyan » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:05 am

Esfír Dedragón wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Esfír Dedragón wrote:
I feel the exact same way. Glad to know someone else shares this thought. :)
I think I can probably guess the reasons behind the sentiment, but from where I stand, there's no substantive difference between GT and anything else that came after EoZ. Why do you draw the line at GT specifically?

I suppose that I draw the line (somewhat) after GT for the reason that, while the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z anime were adaptations of a Toriyama-centric source material (the Dragon Ball manga), GT was an experiment that attempted to test the idea that a post-manga creation with little to no input by Toriyama could still be entertaining, intelligent, and coherent enough to watch. It failed, badly.

Granted, the 13 DBZ animated movies had bare-bones involvement of Toriyama, but they were obviously never meant to plausibly "fit" in with the manga. Call it a "what-if", an alternate realty, etc.

After GT, despite the video games that explored some original ideas and somewhat expanded the story, fans may have wanted more from Toriyama, but it was clear that he wanted nothing more to do with the franchise. Until, DBE appeared...

The OVA from 2008 was pointless and both Battle of Gods and Resurrection F were devoid of any excellent plot points and decent character ideas (Examples: Super Saiyan God? Really? Just red-colored Goku in his normal form? Super Saiyan Blue?! It's just Super Saiyan painted blue! FRIEZA IS BACK... AND CAN COMPETE WITH SSBlue GOKU?!?!?!?!). However, I'll admit that the idea of a God of Destruction was something that I actually loved.

Dragon Ball Super comes around and here I was, hoping that nearly 20 years later, Toei and Toriyama would put in their best efforts in continuing the story. Surely, we were about to see something new and exciting that would at the very least entertain us, just like the old days!

But, no. That didn't happen. What we got was something so cheap, rushed, and half-baked that it made me wonder just how could Toei have thought that it was a good idea to present a new Dragon Ball series that way. When you then discover that Toriyama, more or less, approves of it or comes up with it, you realize that your expectations were too high.

Even with all the flaws that the original franchise had, I was hoping that some, if not all, mistakes would not be repeated. I was wrong. I was so wrong.

I tend to find some good thing in some episodes, though. I laugh, I gasp, I cheer, etc. But those moments are becoming more rare as the series continues.

Truly, we should all be thankful that the manga and anime ended where it did, with all it's strengths and weaknesses. Who knows what Toriyama could have come up with? :/

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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by DragonBallKing » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:10 pm

More than anything people praising the Funimation Z dub like it's some gift from Kami while at the same time bashing dubs for Naruto Bleach and the like for not sounding as sugoi as the JPN Version or some crap like that.
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by Spider-Man » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:30 pm

-Goku letting his guard down constantly in DBS
    -Kale is literally girl broly with the same dialogue and poses.
      -The cheap excuse of Boo sleeping.
        -The subs vs dubs debate in general.
          -People complain the animation for the wrong reason.

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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Torturephile » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:36 am

          -Ignoring the flaws of the original series.
          -Overpraising Super when it does something right.
          -Slamming Super over nitpicks.
          -People expecting too much of Super before it aired.
          -How super saiyan became common the arc after its introduction.
          -FUNimation's changes and how they end up becoming facts for everyone when they're wrong.
          -Much of the filler material in the series, which leads to...
          -The awful pacing of the franchise in general.
          -Looking up unedited clips of the series on YouTube just to find an AMV, but this was long ago.
          From Super episode 113 thread:
          MaskedRider wrote:
          Torturephile wrote:
          hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
          namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:57 pm

          DragonBallKing wrote:More than anything people praising the Funimation Z dub like it's some gift from Kami while at the same time bashing dubs for Naruto Bleach and the like for not sounding as sugoi as the JPN Version or some crap like that.
          These are two different crowds in most instances.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by DragonBallKing » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:19 pm

          Soppa Saia People wrote:
          DragonBallKing wrote:More than anything people praising the Funimation Z dub like it's some gift from Kami while at the same time bashing dubs for Naruto Bleach and the like for not sounding as sugoi as the JPN Version or some crap like that.
          These are two different crowds in most instances.
          Yeah most likely, but I've still heard enough people say things like "DBZ is one of the few anime's where the dub far surpasses the original" or "Dubs are usually crap but DBZ was amazing" for me to think otherwise.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:20 am

          When people get annoyed about Goku not being the best of dads. Mostly because I find it stupid to assume that, just because someone can punch the bad guys in the face like no one else, they're automatically qualified to be great dads or politics or be good at anything that doesn't include punching bad guys in the face just because they're good at the aforementioned face punching.

          It's the reason why I'm cool with guys like Han, Goku and Aang kind of being shit dads. Just because you've saved the universe doesn't by default make you good parent material.

          That's not to say Goku's just a 100% bad dad because he isn't, if any one of his kids gets into trouble he'll fight like crazy to save them but lets be honest here, if you need a dad who can support you in other ways except messing up the guy who picked on you, Goku's not gonna come out looking great no matter what. And that's fine, that makes him a LOT more interesting then the usual fandom idea of "he can punch Hitler real good in the face = absolute best parent material".
          When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Snakeway Skywalker » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:31 pm

          People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.

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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:17 pm

          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.
          You don't like people who don't like the new material? Why? It's fundamentally removed from the original on a formulaic level, on a conceptual level. Characterization-wise, aesthetically, etc. It's barely even the same product anymore, people who dislike the new material are perfectly legitimized in their thinking.

          Star Wars wasn't a good example either, it's suffered the same problems as modern Dragon Ball taken to the nth degree, and it has the nerve to take itself seriously.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Snakeway Skywalker » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:21 pm

          Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.
          You don't like people who don't like the new material? Why? It's fundamentally removed from the original on a formulaic level, on a conceptual level. Characterization-wise, aesthetically, etc. It's barely even the same product anymore, people who dislike the new material are perfectly legitimized in their thinking.

          Star Wars wasn't a good example either, it's suffered the same problems as modern Dragon Ball taken to the nth degree, and it has the nerve to take itself seriously.
          I know I'm not giving good examples here, but I'm more turned off by the fact that lots of mainstream DB or Star Wars fans are unwilling to accept that anything new could be good, which isn't fair, because for all of the faults of Super and the recent movies, there's been plenty good in there to appease fans like myself, who for sure have problems with the new stuff, but remain hopeful unlike those in the fandom who seem to just drag their feet along begrudgingly. I just get a little pissed when I see someone say that Super is worse than GT because its newer or different, or the new Star Wars movies are just as bad as the prequels because they're "not the original."

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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:35 pm

          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:I know I'm not giving good examples here, but I'm more turned off by the fact that lots of mainstream DB or Star Wars fans are unwilling to accept that anything new could be good, which isn't fair, because for all of the faults of Super and the recent movies, there's been plenty good in there to appease fans like myself, who for sure have problems with the new stuff, but remain hopeful unlike those in the fandom who seem to just drag their feet along begrudgingly. I just get a little pissed when I see someone say that Super is worse than GT because its newer or different, or the new Star Wars movies are just as bad as the prequels because they're "not the original."
          I think I get you now, you're more aggravated with those who've closed their minds to the new stuff without sound reasoning. Though once again, Star Wars isn't the best example, since the new movies are usually criticised for poor characterization, unoriginality, and cheap/overly-safe narrative techniques. "Worse than the prequels" is just Star Wars jargon for "not a good continuation".

          I agree with the sentiment, though. I'm not a fan of new Star Wars, and even less so of DBS, but I have enough prior investment that I'm going to give everything its fair chance (though Super in particular has really pushed me on the front, especially the FT Arc). People who aren't interested in the new stuff, but go out of their way to denounce it really astonish me.

          What I disagree with is that there are a large subset of those who hate things because they're new.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:16 am

          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.
          To be fair, the prequels are legit terrible. The Force Awakens isn't amazing, but it did what it needed too do, and for the most part, well made. Plus most hardcore OT fans liked it for the most part. Prequel fans are more likely to dislike it, in my experience.
          Anyway, complaining about Super isn't dumb, if someone dislikes something, they can dislike it. But saying Super runied Dragon Ball, or your childhood is just flat out dumb.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by ABED » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:22 am

          Soppa Saia People wrote:
          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.
          To be fair, the prequels are legit terrible. The Force Awakens isn't amazing, but it did what it needed too do, and for the most part, well made. Plus most hardcore OT fans liked it for the most part. Prequel fans are more likely to dislike it, in my experience.
          Anyway, complaining about Super isn't dumb, if someone dislikes something, they can dislike it. But saying Super runied Dragon Ball, or your childhood is just flat out dumb.
          The only thing TFA needed to be was be successful, which even the prequels were. Say what you will about them, but at least the prequels didn't just remake the first movie.

          The [blank] ruined my childhood argument is asinine. Your childhood is still intact.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by sintzu » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:29 am

          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:I'm more turned off by the fact that lots of mainstream DB or Star Wars fans are unwilling to accept that anything new could be good, which isn't fair.
          Both franchises are among the most successful in the world thanks to their new material so those who won't give them a chance are a very small minority. They're so small that the word small is too big to describe them.
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          Re: Things that grind your gears

          Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:46 am

          ABED wrote:
          Soppa Saia People wrote:
          Snakeway Skywalker wrote:People who completely hate Super and anything produced post-Z. It's like Original trilogy era Star Wars fans complaining that Disney or George Lucas in the 2000s ruined their childhood.
          To be fair, the prequels are legit terrible. The Force Awakens isn't amazing, but it did what it needed too do, and for the most part, well made. Plus most hardcore OT fans liked it for the most part. Prequel fans are more likely to dislike it, in my experience.
          Anyway, complaining about Super isn't dumb, if someone dislikes something, they can dislike it. But saying Super runied Dragon Ball, or your childhood is just flat out dumb.
          The only thing TFA needed to be was be successful, which even the prequels were. Say what you will about them, but at least the prequels didn't just remake the first movie.

          The [blank] ruined my childhood argument is asinine. Your childhood is still intact.
          Sure, the prequels didn't remake A New Hope, but The Force Awakens had more heart and depth than any of them. Besides, I'd rather watch the new Star Wars films than the prequels ever again. At least, I don't have to deal with bad acting and bad writing anymore when I'm watching the former.
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