Things that grind your gears

[ekrolo2]

Well, that's not Super's fault. That's just moronic users from dbzf's fault.

Super's fault is having bad powerscalling, not bad explanations. It can't have bad explanations because it provides none.

Super's bad scaling and lack of explanations, however, leaves the door open for people to make up any random shit they want then pass it off as real information that's "clearly" conveyed in the material.

Sounds a lot like Z

Z has its fair shair of BS, like every power gain ever by Piccolo or Vegeta getting SS for the precise purpose he could never get it before. But here's the difference: in the OG DB material, I know how Goku's fucking powers work, in Super? I don't know how anyone's anything works. Ultra Instinct is basically the only thing that's been explained in any halfway decent fashion.

[Forte224]

Super's bad scaling and lack of explanations, however, leaves the door open for people to make up any random shit they want then pass it off as real information that's "clearly" conveyed in the material.

Sounds a lot like Z

Z has its fair shair of BS, like every power gain ever by Piccolo or Vegeta getting SS for the precise purpose he could never get it before. But here's the difference: in the OG DB material, I know how Goku's fucking powers work, in Super? I don't know how anyone's anything works. Ultra Instinct is basically the only thing that's been explained in any halfway decent fashion.

The only thing that isn't explained power wise or anything wise is Trunks' form which was annoying. Everything else is the typical next power up that makes people stronger. What isn't explained?

[8000 Saiyan]

If For Naruto they can do it then why not Armin.


Agreed, he has got such a unique and Sinister voice for Picoolo. If anything then it's Sabat's Voice which literally sounds like his normal speaking voice.

Yeah, I agree. Don't understand why people say that Sabat sounds closer to Furukawa's take. If anything McNeil sounds closer.

I would rather take McNeil's take over Sabat's.

Yeah, he has more of a presence in the role and he can scream better than Sabat.

[ABED]

I like Sabat and McNeil as Piccolo. I prefer McNeil's take, but Sabat has really grown into the role.

[ekrolo2]

The only thing that isn't explained power wise or anything wise is Trunks' form which was annoying. Everything else is the typical next power up that makes people stronger. What isn't explained?

Why does SSGod exist again when the anime shows it being absorbed?
What the hell is the power of Base Goku & Vegeta now? Is there actually two indistinguishable Base forms? What is SSBlue now? it was supposed to be the SS form of an SSGod (or a Saiyan with the power of SSGod) but if there is no two Base theory, what the fuck does that make SS1-3?
Aren't they the SS forms of a Saiyan who's constantly got he power of SSGod too?
Why do Goku and Vegeta have rage boosts now?
Why is SS1 suddenly malicious & too hard to control when that was ironed out in the Cell arc?
Why does Gohan have Ultimate features when he clearly doesn't get Ultimate until very recently?
Why is 17, a guy who has no ROSAT or Whis or training partner suddenly so powerful? Why's Trunks so powerful? Why does Trunks use the Genki-Dama? Why is a fusion character, a guy meant to combine the best qualities of both people half fucking mortal?

[Forte224]

The only thing that isn't explained power wise or anything wise is Trunks' form which was annoying. Everything else is the typical next power up that makes people stronger. What isn't explained?

Why does SSGod exist again when the anime shows it being absorbed?
What the hell is the power of Base Goku & Vegeta now? Is there actually two indistinguishable Base forms? What is SSBlue now? it was supposed to be the SS form of an SSGod (or a Saiyan with the power of SSGod) but if there is no two Base theory, what the fuck does that make SS1-3?
Aren't they the SS forms of a Saiyan who's constantly got he power of SSGod too?
Why do Goku and Vegeta have rage boosts now?
Why is SS1 suddenly malicious & too hard to control when that was ironed out in the Cell arc?
Why does Gohan have Ultimate features when he clearly doesn't get Ultimate until very recently?
Why is 17, a guy who has no ROSAT or Whis or training partner suddenly so powerful? Why's Trunks so powerful? Why does Trunks use the Genki-Dama? Why is a fusion character, a guy meant to combine the best qualities of both people half fucking mortal?

How did Piccolo only have a 300-400 power level over the course of several years and then in one year get over 1000 doing nothing but training in the desert? Why did Zenkai boosts suddenly stop? How was Dr. Gero able to make people stronger than Freeza? Why did he make himself weaker than those Artifcial Humans? Why does Kuririn only use Kienzan on enemies it'll be useless on?
What is the special training Kami gave the Z Fighters to train for the Saiyans? What was so special about it? Why didn't he use it before? Why does Cell work like he does at all with his regeneration that makes no sense? If Goku mastered Super Saiyan for the Cell Games why doesn't he just stay in Super Saiyan form all the time? The show is stupid in general if you think about it. There are just as many questions in Z as there are in Super.

No matter what, the characters will always be as strong as they need to be for the story to work the way it does. That's just how this franchise is. Don't hate on the newest version of it just because it isn't the inconsistency you're nostalgic for

[ekrolo2]

The only thing that isn't explained power wise or anything wise is Trunks' form which was annoying. Everything else is the typical next power up that makes people stronger. What isn't explained?

Why does SSGod exist again when the anime shows it being absorbed?
What the hell is the power of Base Goku & Vegeta now? Is there actually two indistinguishable Base forms? What is SSBlue now? it was supposed to be the SS form of an SSGod (or a Saiyan with the power of SSGod) but if there is no two Base theory, what the fuck does that make SS1-3?
Aren't they the SS forms of a Saiyan who's constantly got he power of SSGod too?
Why do Goku and Vegeta have rage boosts now?
Why is SS1 suddenly malicious & too hard to control when that was ironed out in the Cell arc?
Why does Gohan have Ultimate features when he clearly doesn't get Ultimate until very recently?
Why is 17, a guy who has no ROSAT or Whis or training partner suddenly so powerful? Why's Trunks so powerful? Why does Trunks use the Genki-Dama? Why is a fusion character, a guy meant to combine the best qualities of both people half fucking mortal?

How did Piccolo only have a 300-400 power level over the course of several years and then in one year get over 1000 doing nothing but training in the desert? Why did Zenkai boosts suddenly stop? How was Dr. Gero able to make people stronger than Freeza? Why did he make himself weaker than those Artifcial Humans? Why does Cell work like he does at all with his regeneration that make no sense? The show is stupid in general if you think about it. There's just as many questions in Z as there are in Super.

No matter what, the characters will always be as strong as they need to be for the story to work the way it does. That's just how this franchise is. Don't hate on the newest version of it just because it isn't the inconsistency you're nostalgic for

It's kind of impossible to be nostalgic for something I didn't watch until late 2014 with Kai. If you'd also read some of my posts here, you'll know I detest the various Cell arc stuff just has much as Super's decision making, though that leans more towards story decisions not directly concerning. All of Piccolos gains are BS, as I already said. Zenkai stopping is probably the same reason PLs stop existing, Toriyama said he felt powers were getting to big and he didn't even draw SS1 as anything more then an x10 boost in power, making the official x50 multiplier an overkill.
I actually think 19 and 20 have a good reason for being tough since they absorb energy, it's 17, 16 and 18 who are total bullshit. Cell's regeneration is a mess, even people who like his arc readily admit this part makes no sense.

Every story ever has characters become as strong as the plot needs them to be, but a good series tends to create believable reasons for the change. DBs progressively gotten shittier and shittier with this until we've reached the logical end point of not even having a clear of idea of how Goku's powers work! Even in the Boo arc where powers get messier and messier, I at least understand how 90% of everyone's abilities work.

In GT it gets worse but its not totally impossible to figure out whereas in Super everyone's powers make no sense. Goku can randomly go from being able to bitch slap SS3 Vegetto tier people in Base one second then the next he gets taken out by a Mister Satan level fodder warrior with no context to explain it such as power drain or fatigue or illness or off guard, he's just randomly weaker because Toei theatricality says he is.

[Forte224]

snip

Agree to disagree, I guess. I'll admit Super's power scaling is bad, particularly with the off screen power boosts of lesser fighters like Roshi, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn. But it doesn't seem like such a drastic thing to separate it that much from the old show's bad power level shifts. That's just me though. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have assumed your history with the franchise

[Ripper 30]

snip

Agree to disagree, I guess. I'll admit Super's power scaling is bad, particularly with the off screen power boosts of lesser fighters like Roshi, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn. But it doesn't seem like such a drastic thing to separate it that much from the old show's bad power level shifts. That's just me though. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have assumed your history with the franchise

The thing is, atleast the powerups in Z made sense to some extent but in Super it's total bullshit and in each Episode Whis spouts new theory everytime. Trunks SSJ Rage Spirit Sword is an example of it there has never been any explanation for it at all. There has been no background about Jiren's Power and the characterization has been awful in Super.

[Forte224]

snip

Agree to disagree, I guess. I'll admit Super's power scaling is bad, particularly with the off screen power boosts of lesser fighters like Roshi, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn. But it doesn't seem like such a drastic thing to separate it that much from the old show's bad power level shifts. That's just me though. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have assumed your history with the franchise

The thing is, atleast the powerups in Z made sense to some extent but in Super it's total bullshit and in each Episode Whis spouts new theory everytime. Trunks SSJ Rage Spirit Sword is an example of it there has never been any explanation for it at all. There has been no background about Jiren's Power and the characterization has been awful in Super.

Things not explained in Z:
-How Goku turned SS3 (He just did it somehow)
-Why unlocking Gohan's latent potential worked in the Boo Arc when it already happened in the Namek Arc
-Why Dr. Gero was able to take a couple humans and make them incredibly stronger than Freeza and why he made himself weaker than those 2
-How Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3 were obtained at all. Vegeta, Trunks and Goku just kinda did it and had no explanation and Cell magically knew how too
-Cell getting a Zenkai boost when Zenkai boosts hadn't happened in ages (that wasn't just a dub thing, right?)

Things that are explained in Super:
-How to get SSG
-What SSB is (literally an SSGSS)
-Freeza's power boost being due to him having incredible latent potential (he was naturally as strong as he was without ever lifting a finger his whole life) and he was too cocky to ever train in the past because he didn't feel the need. There was no one even close to him in even his first form's power power until the Saiyans got hacks power ups
-Why Goku can use Kaioken again
-Roshi training in secret for who knows how long?
-Ultra Instinct form

Complaining about Jiren is silly, the Arc isn't over yet. Characterization has nothing to do with this discussion. Don't cherry pick

[ekrolo2]

Things not explained in Z:
-Why unlocking Gohan's latent potential worked in the Boo Arc when it already happened in the Namek Arc
-How Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3 were obtained at all. Vegeta, Trunks and Goku just kinda did it and had no explanation and Cell magically knew how too
-Cell getting a Zenkai boost when Zenkai boosts hadn't happened in ages (that wasn't just a dub thing, right

I agree with you about Gero and SS3. And no, the Cell thing wasn't a dub change, it doesn't make sense either, Goku should going by the head nucleus explanation have killed him when he blew his top half away.
Potential isn't a fixed thing, however. Goku gets his unlocked to fight Daimao and yet he becomes stronger still later on. Grade 2 and 3 just seem to be the result of excessively powering up, improperly too. The defectiveness of them is why Goku decides never to use them and just make SS1 better.

Things that are explained in Super:
-What SSB is (literally an SSGSS)
-Freeza's power boost being due to him having incredible latent potential (he was naturally as strong as he was without ever lifting a finger his whole life) and he was too cocky to ever train in the past because he didn't feel the need. There was no one even close to him in even his first form's power power until the Saiyans got hacks power ups
-Why Goku can use Kaioken again
-Roshi training in secret for who knows how long?
-Ultra Instinct form

Blue's kind of become wonky though, to put it diplomatically. Back when God = Base, Blue being an SS for an SSGod made perfect sense. Now? Goku's Base is a big x factor, is it powered by God still? Probably not since God is a separate form again, if it IS still powering him, doesn't that make SS1-3 also SS versions of a Saiyan with the power of SSGod if God is always empowering Goku to some degree?

Freeza having great potential isn't an issue for me, how he gets as strong as he is doesn't work. Even Gohan who's a potential filled monster needed training methods to get as tough as he did. Remember Future Gohan? He had just as much potential as his main counterpart and yet, with no ROSAT or partners or unlocks, he was stuck as a mere Super Saiyan. Super's only explanation is that Freeza tortured Tagoma a lot to power up which is really dumb since Freeza loves torturing people anyway, what, did he get a 25 million boost from beating up Vegeta on Namek?

Goku using KK only works if you retcon away the fact SS1 was perfected in the Cell arc. Super keeps acting like they never did it and that SS1 is still malicious when that's not true at all.

Roshi training off screen to power up is just as bad as Piccolo doing the same now and in Z, same thing with 17. If he got only somewhat better that'd be acceptable but apparently he made some serious boosts if he can take down people deemed good enough to be in the ToP.

[Forte224]

Things not explained in Z:
-Why unlocking Gohan's latent potential worked in the Boo Arc when it already happened in the Namek Arc
-How Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3 were obtained at all. Vegeta, Trunks and Goku just kinda did it and had no explanation and Cell magically knew how too
-Cell getting a Zenkai boost when Zenkai boosts hadn't happened in ages (that wasn't just a dub thing, right

I agree with you about Gero and SS3. And no, the Cell thing wasn't a dub change, it doesn't make sense either, Goku should going by the head nucleus explanation have killed him when he blew his top half away.
Potential isn't a fixed thing, however. Goku gets his unlocked to fight Daimao and yet he becomes stronger still later on. Grade 2 and 3 just seem to be the result of excessively powering up, improperly too. The defectiveness of them is why Goku decides never to use them and just make SS1 better.

Things that are explained in Super:
-What SSB is (literally an SSGSS)
-Freeza's power boost being due to him having incredible latent potential (he was naturally as strong as he was without ever lifting a finger his whole life) and he was too cocky to ever train in the past because he didn't feel the need. There was no one even close to him in even his first form's power power until the Saiyans got hacks power ups
-Why Goku can use Kaioken again
-Roshi training in secret for who knows how long?
-Ultra Instinct form

Blue's kind of become wonky though, to put it diplomatically. Back when God = Base, Blue being an SS for an SSGod made perfect sense. Now? Goku's Base is a big x factor, is it powered by God still? Probably not since God is a separate form again, if it IS still powering him, doesn't that make SS1-3 also SS versions of a Saiyan with the power of SSGod if God is always empowering Goku to some degree?

Freeza having great potential isn't an issue for me, how he gets as strong as he is doesn't work. Even Gohan who's a potential filled monster needed training methods to get as tough as he did. Remember Future Gohan? He had just as much potential as his main counterpart and yet, with no ROSAT or partners or unlocks, he was stuck as a mere Super Saiyan. Super's only explanation is that Freeza tortured Tagoma a lot to power up which is really dumb since Freeza loves torturing people anyway, what, did he get a 25 million boost from beating up Vegeta on Namek?

Goku using KK only works if you retcon away the fact SS1 was perfected in the Cell arc. Super keeps acting like they never did it and that SS1 is still malicious when that's not true at all.

Roshi training off screen to power up is just as bad as Piccolo doing the same now and in Z, same thing with 17. If he got only somewhat better that'd be acceptable but apparently he made some serious boosts if he can take down people deemed good enough to be in the ToP.

Oh yeah, I agree Super is the worst offender out of the show. Just not bad enough to be hated so much more than the original. Though the Kaioken think I believe is attributed to god ki being calmer, and SS ki being wild. Perfecting it didn't make the ki different, it just lessened the stamina drain

[ekrolo2]

Oh yeah, I agree Super is the worst offender out of the show. Just not bad enough to be hated so much more than the original. Though the Kaioken think I believe is attributed to god ki being calmer, and SS ki being wild. Perfecting it didn't make the ki different, it just lessened the stamina drain

Blue's mechanics are a bit odd for me, it's meant to give perfect ki control but it's also stamina draining. I've seen some people say it's draining precisely because it gives perfect ki control but shouldn't control let you dictate how much power a form will take out of you at any given moment?

[Forte224]

Oh yeah, I agree Super is the worst offender out of the show. Just not bad enough to be hated so much more than the original. Though the Kaioken think I believe is attributed to god ki being calmer, and SS ki being wild. Perfecting it didn't make the ki different, it just lessened the stamina drain

Blue's mechanics are a bit odd for me, it's meant to give perfect ki control but it's also stamina draining. I've seen some people say it's draining precisely because it gives perfect ki control but shouldn't control let you dictate how much power a form will take out of you at any given moment?

Yeah that was pretty dumb. It was addressed in the manga's Tournament 6 Arc but not the anime so it was assumed at Toyatoro thing but now it's in the anime's ToP. It feels like a retcon so people don't question why Goku and Vegeta aren't constantly using it

[MaskedRider]

When I see "DBZ Super"

[pacz360]

People thinking there's romance between the u6 saiyans even tho theres non there

[Kanassa]

People thinking there's romance between the u6 saiyans even tho theres non there

Just let me ship Cabba and Hit in peace!

[DragonBallKing]

When I see "DBZ Super"

Blame Funi's marketing for that, the whole "DBZ is the main show and DB is a prequel" sort of thing.

[Forte224]

When I see "DBZ Super"

Blame Funi's marketing for that, the whole "DBZ is the main show and DB is a prequel" sort of thing.

I blame Toei just as much. DB Kai that doesn't include anything pre-Z, the games all having the "Z", the movies having the "Z", etc. It's pretty clear Z is the most popular globally, not just in the States.

Also I browse lots of comments sections and forums and I've seen "DBZ Super" once, maybe

[BlueBasilisk]

Blue's mechanics are a bit odd for me, it's meant to give perfect ki control but it's also stamina draining. I've seen some people say it's draining precisely because it gives perfect ki control but shouldn't control let you dictate how much power a form will take out of you at any given moment?

Goku did address that when Whis was making them train in the staff in the early parts of Resurrection F. Keeping your ki contained like Whis was telling them to is physically demanding.