Things that grind your gears

[TheGreatness25]

But that's not what "jobbing" is. Jobbing is when a wrestler -- usually someone not under contract -- shows up to the show and is told to lose the match. That wrestler gets paid to lose the match and that is his or her job for the night. That's where it came from.

I smelled YouTube all over that. You can never take YouTube comments seriously lol And for some reason, wrestling and Dragon Ball fans intertwine. There's another forum that has a Dragon Ball and wrestling section (among many others) and many users belong to both. Plus, I just saw TFS gaming doing a WWE game and it's obvious that they're fans (at least the voices of Vegeta and Nappa).

[ABED]

Technically anytime someone loses, they are "doing a job". They get designated as a jobber if they lose a lot, especially if they are an "enhancement" talent. I don't see the issue. There are plenty of instances where terminology in one place gets co-opted or used in another field.

If a character in DB (or any show for that matter) always or almost always loses, then being a jobber can apply.

[TheGreatness25]

Um no because when a wrestler loses, it's because it's his or her job to lose. I mean, that's where the term comes from... that's why it's called "doing the job." They get paid to lose. Since it is a pre-determined scenario, they are not in control of their wins or losses, nor are they based on talent or merit; thus, it is their job to lose. In DB, whose job is it to lose? Who makes money from being told that they're losing? Yeah, that's right, nobody. Therefore, the terminology makes no sense and it just makes the so-called "smart-marks" look like idiots. But ultimately, it's just embarrassing to wrestling fans that these morons think that they know an "insider" term (because that's a term used for people in the business) and use it like that. This is the same clever bunch that likes to show off their knowledge by calling wrestlers by their real names or prior gimmicks. Because you know, they're so smart and in the loop... as if that information isn't readily available.

[ABED]

Um no because when a wrestler loses, it's because it's his or her job to lose. I mean, that's where the term comes from... that's why it's called "doing the job." They get paid to lose. Since it is a pre-determined scenario, they are not in control of their wins or losses, nor are they based on talent or merit; thus, it is their job to lose. In DB, whose job is it to lose? Who makes money from being told that they're losing? Yeah, that's right, nobody. Therefore, the terminology makes no sense and it just makes the so-called "smart-marks" look like idiots. But ultimately, it's just embarrassing to wrestling fans that these morons think that they know an "insider" term (because that's a term used for people in the business) and use it like that. This is the same clever bunch that likes to show off their knowledge by calling wrestlers by their real names or prior gimmicks. Because you know, they're so smart and in the loop... as if that information isn't readily available.

Not one thing you wrote invalidates what I wrote, but yes, it is based on talent. The jobbers or enhancement talent have the ability to make a guy look good, but don't have the in ring ability or charisma or X-factor to be a star. Being predetermined isn't the important factor in another business using the term. It's not a term that's usually used in-universe. Wrestlers who lose a lot don't call themselves jobbers. The commonality is that these characters both lose a lot. In wrestling and in other mediums, those characters serve a purpose - to enhance the stars.

[TheGreatness25]

Okay, this isn't a wrestling debate, but here's my point: The term "jobber" means that it's someone's job to lose a wrestling match. It is an insider term for wrestling. What is it doing in Dragon Ball? It doesn't belong. Why? Because it's an insider term for wrestling. Furthermore, whose job is it to lose in Dragon Ball? Nobody's. Thus, who is doing a job? Nobody. Thus, the term is nonsense in its application.

I understand where you're coming from and I am not dumb; I know that people use it to mean that someone "enhances" someone else by losing, etc. etc., but that's not the proper application of the word and the mere fact that anyone ever tried to use it as such is pure ridiculousness. I am surprised that you, of all people, are arguing with me about this because you're the one who just seems to absolutely not accept "head canon." You always list why it's nonsensical and most people use your own argument (that it's just used synonymously with a certain meaning) to persuade you otherwise. Except the difference is that "head canon" was created to mean just that, while "jobber/jobbing/doing a job" is a term that already exists and is used for something else entirely.

If everyone wants to jump aboard the bandwagon that sees words being used in ridiculous ways (this party is "lit"), that's fine. But as a wrestling fan, knowing that some jackass took a pure wrestling term and broadened the definition so much to apply it to Dragon Ball, is embarrassing. It's the equivalent of me saying, "I popped the gimmick into my PS4" in reference to a DVD -- it's just embarrassing as a wrestling fan. The terminology is for wrestlers to use in the wrestling business; it does not belong in ordinary conversation and certainly doesn't belong anywhere near Dragon Ball of all places.

[ekrolo2]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Too put stuff simply:

Jobbing = losing on purpose (to make the opponent better/stronger/threatening or raising show's entertaiment)
Losing because the opponent is just plain simply stronger/more skilled and without having the intention of losing on purpose =/= jobbing.

Characters in Dragon Ball don't lose on purpose.

[TheGreatness25]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

Oh yes. And that it's an "adult" anime. Right on up there with that one.

Too put stuff simply:

Jobbing = losing on purpose (to make the opponent better/stronger/threatening or raising show's entertaiment)
Losing because the opponent is just plain simply stronger/more skilled and without having the intention of losing on purpose =/= jobbing.

Characters in Dragon Ball don't lose on purpose.

Simply put, yes.

[ekrolo2]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

Oh yes. And that it's an "adult" anime. Right on up there with that one.

In a world where a Captain Planet episode is about AIDS/HIV (yeah, really) that statement is even more ridiculous.

[ABED]

You're looking at it the distinction from different perspectives. For DB, you are looking at it in-universe. For wrestling, you are look at it from the talent and booking perspective. That's where you are missing the point. In universe, the wrestlers don't lose on purpose either.

Why? Because it's an insider term for wrestling.

And "mark" was a term used in confidence schemes. Wrestling co-opted it. Terms in one arena get used in others. It's not wrong.

[TheGreatness25]

You're looking at it the distinction from different perspectives. For DB, you are looking at it in-universe. For wrestling, you are look at it from the talent and booking perspective. That's where you are missing the point. In universe, the wrestlers don't lose on purpose either.

Out-of-universe, wrestling "jobbers" are employees that show up for work and are told that their job for the night is to lose. There is no Gohan that shows up to Toei studios for work and is told that he's losing the fight. So it still makes zero sense.

[ABED]

You're looking at it the distinction from different perspectives. For DB, you are looking at it in-universe. For wrestling, you are look at it from the talent and booking perspective. That's where you are missing the point. In universe, the wrestlers don't lose on purpose either.

Out-of-universe, wrestling "jobbers" are employees that show up for work and are told that their job for the night is to lose. There is no Gohan that shows up to Toei studios for work and is told that he's losing the fight. So it still makes zero sense.

You are splitting hairs. Toriyama writes certain characters to lose to serve a purpose. There is no Al Snow. Al Snow is a character played by someone to serve a specific purpose. Toriyama writes Gohan to lose in order to further his story. Vince books Al Snow to lose to make someone look like a star. It's the same principle, just applied to a different medium.

And this is NOTHING like my issue with head canon. Head canon is a non-sensical term. Jobber is a legitimate term, we're just arguing over it's application.

[8000 Saiyan]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

Yeah, I agree. That annoys me to no end.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

Yeah, I agree. That annoys me to no end.

tbh I don't get why that should annoy people. It's a belief usually based on FUNi's adaptation, but...it ultimately doesn't affect anyone & it's truthfully just fandom wars.

Facts & artist integrity are important, but art is for fun & at the end of the day it's not their fault & DB makes cash regardless. Not sure if the dub's ever affected the direction of DB in Japan though. That's a possibility that's a bit dangerous to some extent.

[8000 Saiyan]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

Yeah, I agree. That annoys me to no end.

tbh I don't get why that should annoy people. It's a belief usually based on FUNi's adaptation, but...it ultimately doesn't affect anyone & it's truthfully just fandom wars.

Facts & artist integrity are important, but art is for fun & at the end of the day it's not their fault & DB makes cash regardless. Not sure if the dub's ever affected the direction of DB in Japan though. That's a possibility that's a bit dangerous to some extent.

I don't think Toei cares one bit about the dubs.

[Gog]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

A better distinction would be some parts of Dragon Ball are dark and gritty, and some parts of it aren't. The Piccolo Daimo, 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc, Freeza, Cell, and the Future Trunk's arc are in no way shape or form tonally similar to The Hunt For The Dragon Ball's arc. Which, was were Dragon Ball was at it's silliest.

So, no need to wipe out Humanity.

[Dbzfan94]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

A better distinction would be some parts of Dragon Ball are dark and gritty, and some parts of it aren't. The Piccolo Daimo, 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc, Freeza, Cell, and the Future Trunk's arc are in no way shape or form tonally similar to The Hunt For The Dragon Ball's arc. Which, was were Dragon Ball was at it's silliest.

So, no need to wipe out Humanity.

The 21st Tournament was very silly / lighthearted.

[Gog]

When someone calls Dragon Ball "dark, gritty and realistic" with a straight face. I don't know whether to laugh or get those nuclear launch codes and put mankind down in the name of eugenics.

A better distinction would be some parts of Dragon Ball are dark and gritty, and some parts of it aren't. The Piccolo Daimo, 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc, Freeza, Cell, and the Future Trunk's arc are in no way shape or form tonally similar to The Hunt For The Dragon Ball's arc. Which, was were Dragon Ball was at it's silliest.

So, no need to wipe out Humanity.

The 21st Tournament was very silly / lighthearted.

I was referring to the one with Piccolo Jr. Of course I have forgotten what his arc was called . But, even then the 21st Tournament did have some serious elements to it.

[ABED]

I wouldn't say serious as much as the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is more earnest than the preceding arc. It's still very lighthearted, but not as much a story out of a gag manga.

[Cipher]

I wouldn't say serious as much as the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is more earnest than the preceding arc. It's still very lighthearted, but not as much a story out of a gag manga.

I agree with this; I think one of the major shifts between the two arcs is that the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai highlights character lessons for Goku and Kuririn, whereas the opening arc is really just about achieving a goal, and any character growth is comparatively sillier and more incidental.

In short, the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai invents an arc for Goku!