Things that grind your gears

[Kanassa]

Goku being called a "sociopath". I've seen this word being tossed around too much recently when people have been trying to articulate what Goku's current characterisation in Supe is, and it annoys the fuck out of me how nonchalantly people use that term. Seriously, do some fucking research of what it means to be a "sociopath" before you actually label someone that. It's not a word that should be used lightly.

That reminds me of another gear grinder, the notion that you can't have a protagonist who does morally wrong things (This is more general than Dragon Ball specific) because it means they're unlikable. A character not being in-sync with your morals doesn't make them unlikable, it only means that you can't like them on a moral level. Likeability includes more factors than simply if they're a good person or not, or anti-heroes wouldn't be so popular.

Take the Joker for instance, a completely morally reprehensible character, but extremely likeable. He's abusive, petty and has increased the population of orphans by the hundreds, but that doesn't take away from his entertainment value. With the right writer, you could easily have a story with him as a protagonist simply because he's the type of character who's so crazy that you kind of want to see him succeed just to see what he'll do next (Again, if written right).

Ditto, this whole idea that a character has to be likable for you to get invested or interested in them is total horseshit. Especially because you've got really famous examples like John Constantine, Elric of Melnibone and yes, Goku, who are far from paragons of virtue and who's most interesting stuff comes from the fact they're really flawed people.

Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.

[Gog]

When people complain about goku black eyeliner in the manga, honestly that's a stupid complaint there,because we all know design≠character.

Maybe, they just don't like the design aspect of the character? Because the eyeliner does indeed look dumb. But of course opinions.

[ABED]

Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.

I think Breaking Bad is a better example. At least for me it is. I found Death Note boring and about halfway through it was like grinding teeth to get through it, but I did for the sake of completion. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are two great examples of following interesting and at times likeable leads, but they are always interesting. What I've found interesting is that if your lead is a bad guy, the people who inhibit their goals, even if they are good people, are often maligned by fans.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.

Spoiler alert: It kinda went downhill in the second part. Light obtains a lackey called Mikami and Near instantly deduces that there are 3 Kiras, and the new Kira is Mikami through some bullshit, L at least always gave some rationale for how he deduced stuff.

Also, Light gets fucked because Mikami doesn't follow his orders, it's actually pretty sad how he ends up dying.

Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.

I think Breaking Bad is a better example. At least for me it is. I found Death Note boring and about halfway through it was like grinding teeth to get through it, but I did for the sake of completion. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are two great examples of following interesting and at times likeable leads, but they are always interesting. What I've found interesting is that if your lead is a bad guy, the people who inhibit their goals, even if they are good people, are often maligned by fans.

I don't know, I thought the first 26 episodes were pretty gripping, it only became somewhat boring in the last 11.

[ekrolo2]

I think Breaking Bad is a better example. At least for me it is. I found Death Note boring and about halfway through it was like grinding teeth to get through it, but I did for the sake of completion. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are two great examples of following interesting and at times likeable leads, but they are always interesting. What I've found interesting is that if your lead is a bad guy, the people who inhibit their goals, even if they are good people, are often maligned by fans.

No one said consistency was one of mankind's most well known attributes

Hell, Death Note is the best example of this. You're following the villain of the story (Well, at least through the first part, I never made it to the second half of the series), but you're invested in him succeeding for the most part.

I'd say Goku Black is another good example of how a bad/flawed person can get you really invested in what's happening from the DBverse. That guy makes you want to keep watching what'll happen next and he's an omnicidal maniac.

[ABED]

If you make your antagonist likable, I do think it's incumbent on the author to do everything they can to make the hero more likable than the villain. Freeza's incredibly interesting but one of the things I like about Goku turning Super Saiyan are the moments of pure badassery.

don't know, I thought the first 26 episodes were pretty gripping, it only became somewhat boring in the last 11.

Except that Light isn't nearly as interesting or as clever as the writer would like us to think. Too often he gets people to tell him things they would never be dumb enough to tell anyone who didn't have access to it. Also, the cat and mouse game between Light and L doesn't feel like a chess match between two masters. It feels like a chess game between 1 man and himself. Both sides are making these insane deductions that could only occur because there's one author writing both parts. I have no intention of watching the Netflix show.

[Kanassa]

What I've found interesting is that if your lead is a bad guy, the people who inhibit their goals, even if they are good people, are often maligned by fans.

In fiction the writer has a great power to manipulate the audiences view of the story, and when a writer takes advantage of that it's very interesting. I love it when someone takes advantage of audience expectation story-wise, like how in novels that follow one character, you can have the protagonist commit screwed up acts that (Because you are looking through the filter of the writer) you won't realise are evil acts until you really think about it.

[ABED]

What I've found interesting is that if your lead is a bad guy, the people who inhibit their goals, even if they are good people, are often maligned by fans.

In fiction the writer has a great power to manipulate the audiences view of the story, and when a writer takes advantage of that it's very interesting. I love it when someone takes advantage of audience expectation story-wise, like how in novels that follow one character, you can have the protagonist commit screwed up acts that (Because you are looking through the filter of the writer) you won't realise are evil acts until you really think about it.

It often happens even if the writer doesn't intend it. Vince Gilligan didn't intend for Skylar or Chuck to be hated, but the audience turned on them even though Walter was a monster and Jimmy was clearly in the wrong.

[ekrolo2]

When people say you can stack Super Saiyan on Ultimate. No, you can't, the entire point of Ultimate is to get rid of transformations, giving you all of your power and then some in your regular state of being.

If Goku needed SS3 to get access to 100% of his power in the Boo arc, Gohan got all of that and then some when Old Kai unlocked his transformation. So, unless he tries to combine Ultimate with Kaio-Ken or something, Gohan cannot use transformations to go over his achieved 100% power. What the actual fuck is so hard to understand about this I will never know.

[The Patrolman]

You know what grinds my gears. The fact that people only prefer SSJ4 over SSJB and SSJG because of its design. Yes it is a cool design but thats all there is to it

[Dbzfan94]

You know what grinds my gears. The fact that people only prefer SSJ4 over SSJB and SSJG because of its design.

Um... What?? You don't like that someone prefers one design over another? I like SSJ4 because of the design, the lore behind it. People have differing opinions. Not everyone has to like the god forms.

[Khin]

When people complain about goku black eyeliner in the manga, honestly that's a stupid complaint there,because we all know design≠character.

Sure, character design does not define the character, but I don’t think anyone who complains about Black’s eyeliner in the manga believes the contrary, and that doesn’t mean we can’t criticize character designs, either. I love how Black has an eyeliner in his Super Saiyan form, but I hate how it was kept in Super Saiyan Rosé. I think Toyotaro should have just followed Toriyama’s design for Rosé. In my opinion, Toriyama’s design looks much more elegant and charming, which is the number one reason why I love how it looks in the anime.

[Bansho64]

You know what grinds my gears. The fact that people only prefer SSJ4 over SSJB and SSJG because of its design. Yes it is a cool design but thats all there is to it

So what? Why do you have a problem with it? If they wanna like it because of it's design solely, then they can. Also, just because you say "that's all there is to it", doesn't mean they think that. It's not a fact. It's your opinion. This is pretty much you just throwing a petty hissy fit. If people don't like the God forms, then that's fine.

[ekrolo2]

When people say "Goku didn't use SS3 to stomp Vegeta so he could preserve his pride!". No, Goku uses SS2 to destroy Vegeta because he doesn't want Fat Boo to hatched or to have a good time. His objective is to rip Vegeta a new asshole and be pragmatic for once, there is no good (in-universe) reason for him not to use SS3. With but a finger flick he could stomp Vegeta, Dabura, and Babidi and win the Boo arc right then and there and with time to spare.

[Lord Beerus]

When people say "Goku didn't use SS3 to stomp Vegeta so he could preserve his pride!". No, Goku uses SS2 to destroy Vegeta because he doesn't want Fat Boo to hatched or to have a good time. His objective is to rip Vegeta a new asshole and be pragmatic for once, there is no good (in-universe) reason for him not to use SS3. With but a finger flick he could stomp Vegeta, Dabura, and Babidi and win the Boo arc right then and there and with time to spare.

And I don't understand why Goku should even be considering Vegeta's feelings, or why people hypothesis that to be case, in the scenario of why he didn't SSJ3 against Majin Vegeta at that time to end the fight quickly. Vegeta murdered over 200 people at the WMAT just to goad Goku into fighting him. Honestly, fuck what Vegeta thinks or feels. Goku should have never entered Vegeta's ego after that act.

[ekrolo2]

When people say "Goku didn't use SS3 to stomp Vegeta so he could preserve his pride!". No, Goku uses SS2 to destroy Vegeta because he doesn't want Fat Boo to hatched or to have a good time. His objective is to rip Vegeta a new asshole and be pragmatic for once, there is no good (in-universe) reason for him not to use SS3. With but a finger flick he could stomp Vegeta, Dabura, and Babidi and win the Boo arc right then and there and with time to spare.

And I don't why Goku should even be considering Vegeta's feelings, or why people hypothesis that to be case, in the scenario of why he didn't SSJ3 against Majin Vegeta at that time to end the fight quickly. Vegeta murdered over 200 people at the WMAT just to goad Goku into fighting him. Honestly, fuck what Vegeta thinks or feels. Goku should have never entered Vegeta's ego after that act.

I've been reading the Boo arc lately, as you can tell, and that arc has a lot of really jarring tone shifts like that. Goku goes from being appalled by Vegeta's actions to not caring two chapters later. Goten is vengeful against Super Boo when he kills Chi-Chi then doesn't care later on enough to avoid goofing off. Goku and Vegeta are angry & frustrated the Earth got destroyed then next chapter its played up as a setup for Satan to act like a jackass for a couple laughs.

Sometimes the mix of comedy & drama works, especially in the Fat Boo stuff cause he's a naughty, genocidal kid who doesn't know any better but other times its just really sloppy.

[Gog]

When people say that King Cold is incapable of transforming and that the form we see him in is his apparent true form. Even though that statement contradicts everything stated and shown in the franchise.

[TheUltimateNinja]

When people say that King Cold is incapable of transforming and that the form we see him in is his apparent true form. Even though that statement contradicts everything stated and shown in the franchise.

Freeza and Frost are the only ones shown to have created restriction forms to suppress their power.

[Gog]

When people say that King Cold is incapable of transforming and that the form we see him in is his apparent true form. Even though that statement contradicts everything stated and shown in the franchise.

Freeza and Frost are the only ones shown to have created restriction forms to suppress their power.

Why does nobody remember Kuzira? And you haven't actually shown me proof for how Cold's in his true form. You also can't counter with the fact that only Freeza, Frost and (Kuzira) are the only ones to make suppression forms as that would mean he would look similar too Freeza's true form. Because that is the so called true form of the race, something that has been shown to us and stated to us three whole times.

[TheUltimateNinja]

When people say that King Cold is incapable of transforming and that the form we see him in is his apparent true form. Even though that statement contradicts everything stated and shown in the franchise.

Freeza and Frost are the only ones shown to have created restriction forms to suppress their power.

Why does nobody remember Kuzira? And you haven't actually shown me proof for how Cold's in his true form. You also can't counter with the fact that only Freeza, Frost and (Kuzira) are the only ones to make suppression forms as that would mean he would look similar too Freeza's true form. Because that is the so called true form of the race, something that has been shown to us and stated to us three whole times.

Kuriza isn't even canon. Also, Toriyama said Freeza and Cold were mutants so that's not what their true form looks like, Freeza probably just looks like that because he's even more mutated than Cold.