Things that grind your gears

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Strange. My Gohan signal went off, and then I immediately stopped what I had been doing and somehow found myself at a computer. :p

He's had a year of Growth in that 11 day span

That wasn't dramatized!

Did it have to be?

The dramatization event that someone would have liked shouldn't have been needed really, imo, because there was no off-screen change of character! And Gohan took us down memory lane to remind us of his power and why he was worried about losing control of himself again -- this time with having the power of a mastered SSJ to unleash. As goku the krump dancer mentioned already spot-on, we finally got to see the side of Gohan that had always been there, it's just that a change in circumstances this time allowed for that side of Gohan to be shown without what he perceived as being an overwhelming obstacle deterring him. It was an awesome moment to finally see that after all that the "child soldier" Gohan had been through previously as he had been surrounded by fighting maniacs and threat after threat. Gohan demonstrated great composure and took what may have been the more difficult approach. Of course, the antagonist didn't go along with it, but hindsight is 20/20. I love the writing choice here by Toriyama during this section -- he had counted on his audience to get it.

It's all Chi-chi's fault I tell ya!

[ABED]

But he never looked down on the "battle maniacs" or put up a fight when Goku and the others made plans to fight the cyborgs. He was enthusiastic to help out. If it was about avoiding death as someone suggested, there are more expedient ways to stop the cyborgs than waiting and training three years. There's a lot about this arc that's started to bug me over the years. Now I'm not so sure anymore that I would place it above the Buu arc.

It doesn't grind my gears, but I really wish Toriyama gave characters like Tenshinhan and Yamcha actual endings.

[Exline]

But he never looked down on the "battle maniacs" or put up a fight when Goku and the others made plans to fight the cyborgs. He was enthusiastic to help out. If it was about avoiding death as someone suggested, there are more expedient ways to stop the cyborgs than waiting and training three years. There's a lot about this arc that's started to bug me over the years. Now I'm not so sure anymore that I would place it above the Buu arc.

It doesn't grind my gears, but I really wish Toriyama gave characters like Tenshinhan and Yamcha actual endings.

Well, they did in their respective arcs. Yamcha went off with Bulma after he failed to use the dragon balls to wish his fear away. At the end of Pilaf Saga, his fear of girls went away after being trapped with Bulma. He overcame his fear and they both decided to be in a relationship with one another.

Tien was on a path of redemption alongside Chaozu in the Piccolo Daimao Arc after realizing they were wrong to follow Master Shen's teachings. He tried to defeat Piccolo but was bested by his spawn, Drum. After being saved by Goku, he strives to further his fighting prowess and improve through any means neccesary so he can best Goku in the next Tenkaichi Budokai.
3 years later Tien and the gang meet at the tournament. His 1st battle is with his old role model, Mercenary Tao, the assassin presumed to be killed by Goku. He defeats Tao and forces him and his old master, Shen to leave afterwards, proving to them that he doesn't need them to get stronger.

I feel that is where their character arcs ended and them continuing to be involved with series up to the Cell Saga were just to be used as fodder for the main villains, such as the Nappa and the Androids.


I do understand that they deserve proper sendoffs, like "10 years later, Yamcha went on to be a billionaire, playboy, philantropist" or something similar, like when a Part in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure reaches the end and describes what the characters went on to do with their lives. I wish we did see something like that because them constantly coming back to be underutilized and sidelined is ridiculous. These two should have left on their own paths and never meet with the Z Fighters for a while, but only as cameos in a few instances. I felt as if Toriyama did that well with Tenshinhan coming back to save Gohan, that was interesting. The same goes for 17, we haven't seen him for quite a while and his reintroduction got everybody hype because we missed him. That's something they should be doing for Tenshinhan and Yamcha and Chaozu and Yajirobe. They shouldn't be coming to family events revealing they are doing nothing with their lives. It's just downright awful. But seeing a fan favorite like Tenshinhan embarassed over and over again in Super just makes me wish that these characters could just be left alone. No need to degrade these characters anymore than they have been.

[ABED]

I mean an actual wrap up at the very end. Give an indication of what he's doing and where he's going. Him getting over his fear of girls at the very beginning of the story isn't what I meant nor does it count as closure except for that arc. I'm talking about showing us where they are or where they're going like pretty much any series finale would. I like the end of GT where we do see where most of the cast ended up. Even if Yamcha ends up back in the desert, at least that's something. Toriyama created a lot of interesting characters over the course of the story, but didn't often cycle them out when he was done with them. Lunch is a weird case.

[Exline]

I mean an actual wrap up at the very end. Give an indication of what he's doing and where he's going. Him getting over his fear of girls at the very beginning of the story isn't what I meant nor does it count as closure except for that arc. I'm talking about showing us where they are or where they're going like pretty much any series finale would. I like the end of GT where we do see where most of the cast ended up. Even if Yamcha ends up back in the desert, at least that's something. Toriyama created a lot of interesting characters over the course of the story, but didn't often cycle them out when he was done with them. Lunch is a weird case.

This pretty much goes with my last paragraph that I replied to you with.

I feel that is where their character arcs ended and them continuing to be involved with series up to the Cell Saga were just to be used as fodder for the main villains, such as the Nappa and the Androids.

I do understand that they deserve proper sendoffs, like "10 years later, Yamcha went on to be a billionaire, playboy, philantropist" or something similar, like when a Part in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure reaches the end and describes what the characters went on to do with their lives. I wish we did see something like that because them constantly coming back to be underutilized and sidelined is ridiculous. These two should have left on their own paths and never meet with the Z Fighters for a while, but only as cameos in a few instances. I felt as if Toriyama did that well with Tenshinhan coming back to save Gohan, that was interesting. The same goes for 17, we haven't seen him for quite a while and his reintroduction got everybody hype because we missed him. That's something they should be doing for Tenshinhan and Yamcha and Chaozu and Yajirobe. They shouldn't be coming to family events revealing they are doing nothing with their lives. It's just downright awful. But seeing a fan favorite like Tenshinhan embarassed over and over again in Super just makes me wish that these characters could just be left alone. No need to degrade these characters anymore than they have been.

[ABED]

I got it, sorry that wasn't clear in my reply, though I still don't understand how Yamcha's storyline in the very first arc was related to my point about closure.

Something that grinds my gears: neologisms like asspull, Flanderization, and headcanon. I don't like them to begin with but there are much better and clearer phrases already in existence.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

But he never looked down on the "battle maniacs" or put up a fight when Goku and the others made plans to fight the cyborgs. He was enthusiastic to help out. If it was about avoiding death as someone suggested, there are more expedient ways to stop the cyborgs than waiting and training three years. There's a lot about this arc that's started to bug me over the years. Now I'm not so sure anymore that I would place it above the Buu arc.

I agree. Gohan had even expressed a little frustration earlier on that the cyborgs (Gero & #19) ended up not being the "world-enders" that everyone thought they were, which led to him questioning why he went through all of that three years of training (when a healthy Goku by himself could have cleaned house at the time, never mind Vegeta and Piccolo). He also had to be held back by Goku at one point after they thought Piccolo had been done in, but that was Gohan falling into hysterics for good reason. Even in the RoSaT, Gohan was shown a couple times thinking about wanting to stop any big threat and protect everyone. Perhaps when Goku later revealed that Gohan had some unbelievable power (the flashback in the RoSaT), that was when Gohan became concerned about getting angry and flying off the handle -- he did lose consciousness for a couple days as a result according to Goku in an earlier episode.

I'd suggest that we revive one of our old favorite threads, ABED, but we're just seeing the story from different angles and interpretations. It provokes thought, and some probably don't care for it for that reason. It's all good. For my part, I recently went through that entire arc keeping in mind everything that you guys (pacifist Gohan supporters) have been expressing, and the Gohan stuff still works for me. I'd like to think, that if anything, every arc gave us something unique, for good or bad -- I think that we can all agree on that. :p


I like the first third of the Boo arc before it sorta putters along and becomes more silly and kinda aimless. It still has some great moments and twists here and there. I think that my biggest complaint about the Cell arc's narrative, is how F.Trunks VS Perfect Cell was handled as presented in the anime. That was the arc's lowest point, imo.


Anyway, it grinds my gears that Piccolo has become mostly useless in a battle capacity. The ToP -- and Super, in general -- was a great opportunity to write in some nice Piccolo moments again, but he was written in such an underwhelming way mostly throughout, imo. His training and stern words to help get Gohan back into fighting shape again become a bit laughable looking back on it, because of the embarrassing way that he got eliminated ( ). It doesn't help that #17 got all of these awesome moments written in over most of the rest of the cast in comparison (I like #17, btw).

(*whispers* just FYI, I don't really get my gears grinded from watching DB/Z/Super. That was just for fun. What grinds my gears, however, is endless speculation on the forums about things that will not happen in the series/franchise for months, or even at all!

[ABED]

Fair enough.

I find it interesting that any arc that has anything to do with the RRA in some capacity on average ranks very low on list of favorites from members of this forum.

[Logania]

In all those situations he was still forced to fight. Even though Goku didnt twist his (Gohan's) arm to help fight the Robots, Gohan only wanted to help since he learned that he was gonna die anyway. I would try to get a leg up on someone who I knew had it out for me too. In the Namek arc he wasnt consciously aware of his "Rage Boosts".

In regards to the awareness of rage boosts, I get you, but he was never training just because he might as well do it since he's gonna die, he was just training to defeat them like everybody else. If he DID say that was the reason, then damn that boy is being melancholy lol

When Freeza came to earth with his Dad. Gohan went to the scene to investigate. No one was 100% sure who's power it was until they saw him. It was far too large to ignore and whether he went to the scene or not he was gonna be forced to fight anyway should things had gotten outta control.

He wasn't going to be forced to fight if he didn't want to unlike on Namek, where they're stuck there and have no other options. They sensed Freeza's energy (not 100% positive it's him until they see his spaceship, but they still felt his energy and comment it's bigger than before) and he heads first into battle of his own accord.

He wanted to stop Boo because it was HIS energy that was used to revive him and at the behest of the Supreme Kai. Beerus came to them looking for a fight and so did Freeza in his second come back.

He's never guilty or comments it's his fault Majin Buu's being revived at the Tournament, making him want to go stop him, he just wants to. He doesn't have to fight there, Beerus, or at Freeza's second invasion of Earth. He could've sat back like Krillin and Yamcha and protect Videl during Beerus or stayed and protected Videl/Pan during the Freeza invasion like 18 was doing with Marron, but he wanted to go and fight.

All that being said though, we didnt need to see Gohan's epiphany. He told Cell he didnt like fighting yet proceeded to fight anyway. Gohan not liking to fight has stuck with him since then. Its not out of character or anything like that. its part of who he is.

Him not being a battle hungry Saiyan like his father has been his character, but purposely not fighting to protect the Earth or his friends is. He's had no problem fighting even when it doesn't concern the safety of Earth like wanting to fight at the Tournament of Destroyers or the Zeno Exhibition Match, he was wanting to go when he doesn't have to. He also never has a problem fearing his own power like he did against Cell as he has no problem showing off to Kibito in the World Tournament.

His personality change and actions when he was beginning to fight Cell was completely out of left field and had no real solid reasoning for the change as every moment of him before and after the fight with Cell in the series is the exact opposite of it. I don't have a problem with the entire fight but the beginning of it where he just throws one punch and then doesn't fight back until the transformation is not like him at all.

[MasenkoHA]

Something that's been grinding my gears is Dragon Ball Z Abridged being treated as a legitimate dub by fanboys. I like Dragon Ball Z abridged but it annoys me when I see Youtube comments like the Abridged cast are the only voices that sound right now. They're a talent group but at the end of the day Lanipator is just doing a Sabat impression with Vegeta and Piccolo a damn good Sabat impression but it's still derivative. Likewise MasakoX's Goku is just Peter Kelamis's Goku with a little less surfer bro and a little more country bumpkin. And most of the other voices are perfectly fine in terms of a gag dub but wouldn't work at all in a semi serious dub. The only voices I think yeaaah they could dub the characters in a serious dub using that exact voice is KaiserNeko's Trunks and the va's that do 17 and 18 for TeamFourstar.

I also saw one Youtube comment asking for Funimation to release a boxset of DBZA because who wouldn't want to pay money for something they get for free?

[Dbzfan94]

Something that's been grinding my gears is Dragon Ball Z Abridged being treated as a legitimate dub by fanboys. I like Dragon Ball Z abridged but it annoys me when I see Youtube comments like the Abridged cast are the only voices that sound right now. They're a talent group but at the end of the day Lanipator is just doing a Sabat impression with Vegeta and Piccolo a damn good Sabat impression but it's still derivative. Likewise MasakoX's Goku is just Peter Kelamis's Goku with a little less surfer bro and a little more country bumpkin. And most of the other voices are perfectly fine in terms of a gag dub but wouldn't work at all in a semi serious dub. The only voices I think yeaaah they could dub the characters in a serious dub using that exact voice is KaiserNeko's Trunks and the va's that do 17 and 18 for TeamFourstar.

I also saw one Youtube comment asking for Funimation to release a boxset of DBZA because who wouldn't want to pay money for something they get for free?

Ok THIS annoys the living hell out of me.

[Pirina_Fusee]

Something that's been grinding my gears is Dragon Ball Z Abridged being treated as a legitimate dub by fanboys. I like Dragon Ball Z abridged but it annoys me when I see Youtube comments like the Abridged cast are the only voices that sound right now. They're a talent group but at the end of the day Lanipator is just doing a Sabat impression with Vegeta and Piccolo a damn good Sabat impression but it's still derivative. Likewise MasakoX's Goku is just Peter Kelamis's Goku with a little less surfer bro and a little more country bumpkin. And most of the other voices are perfectly fine in terms of a gag dub but wouldn't work at all in a semi serious dub. The only voices I think yeaaah they could dub the characters in a serious dub using that exact voice is KaiserNeko's Trunks and the va's that do 17 and 18 for TeamFourstar.

I also saw one Youtube comment asking for Funimation to release a boxset of DBZA because who wouldn't want to pay money for something they get for free?

The nigh-cult-like devotion by some fans to Abridged Series and internet reviewers gives me the willies. Hopefully Channel Awesome's downfall causes it to let up some.

[MasenkoHA]

Something that's been grinding my gears is Dragon Ball Z Abridged being treated as a legitimate dub by fanboys. I like Dragon Ball Z abridged but it annoys me when I see Youtube comments like the Abridged cast are the only voices that sound right now. They're a talent group but at the end of the day Lanipator is just doing a Sabat impression with Vegeta and Piccolo a damn good Sabat impression but it's still derivative. Likewise MasakoX's Goku is just Peter Kelamis's Goku with a little less surfer bro and a little more country bumpkin. And most of the other voices are perfectly fine in terms of a gag dub but wouldn't work at all in a semi serious dub. The only voices I think yeaaah they could dub the characters in a serious dub using that exact voice is KaiserNeko's Trunks and the va's that do 17 and 18 for TeamFourstar.

I also saw one Youtube comment asking for Funimation to release a boxset of DBZA because who wouldn't want to pay money for something they get for free?

The nigh-cult-like devotion by some fans to Abridged Series and internet reviewers gives me the willies. Hopefully Channel Awesome's downfall causes it to let up some.

I wouldn’t count on it. Most of the people fellating Doug are continuing to do so

[ekrolo2]

When people say things like Super Saiyan Kami or Dragon Ball Chou to refer to SSGod or Super, like, this series has used "Engrish" all the time, for lots of things that didn't to have them there but they are, it's kind of a thing with this series.

[Logania]

Looking at Toriyama's artwork "design" of Ultra Instinct Goku makes me groan.

Let's just literally recolor artwork he did for Super Saiyan God for the movie. He changed his hair color though so it's apparently alright.

[Forte224]

When people say things like Super Saiyan Kami or Dragon Ball Chou to refer to SSGod or Super, like, this series has used "Engrish" all the time, for lots of things that didn't to have them there but they are, it's kind of a thing with this series.

Nonsense. Duragon Buro Zetto Chou is the true name of the show and I'm a true fan for spelling and pronouncing it that way.
[/sarcasm]

[AnimeNation101]

The snobbery towards Faulconer Music being a preference for some people.
Zarama's Design.
The newer games never having the right arena explosion effects.
Goku's grating Flanderization.
The constant "Food solves everything" gag in Super.

We haven’t even seen Zalama yet. How can his design annoy you? (Just so you know, the Super Dragon is NOT Zalama)

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

We haven’t even seen Zalama yet. How can his design annoy you? (Just so you know, the Super Dragon is NOT Zalama)

Its an old post, though I don't remember the dragon's name and assumed they were the same character in casual association.

When people say things like Super Saiyan Kami or Dragon Ball Chou to refer to SSGod or Super, like, this series has used "Engrish" all the time, for lots of things that didn't to have them there but they are, it's kind of a thing with this series.

The gratuitous Japanese does annoy me to. Excluding the exception with attack names or proper terms/titles, It annoys me reading that. People tend to try and sound like they know more or in-tune with the series more than they actually are.

[Bajosexto]

When people say things like Super Saiyan Kami or Dragon Ball Chou to refer to SSGod or Super, like, this series has used "Engrish" all the time, for lots of things that didn't to have them there but they are, it's kind of a thing with this series.

Do people really say that? I've never heard anyone call Super "Dragon Ball Chou" or SSG "Super Saiyan Kami".

[Cure Dragon 255]

You will now. Somehow It always happens to me. Someone complains about X thing here. I say "I have never seen X Happen!" And LO AND BEHOLD a jillion people do make X happen in front of my very eyes.