Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Steven Bloodriver]

1) Did Vegeta's rage made his power increase beyond it's limits like in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when Super Perfect Cell had killed Future Trunks during the Cell Games?

2) If the original Zamasu’s soul had been purged from Goku Black's body, what would happen to the physical body the former stole? Would it still continue to live on it's own?

[ekrolo2]

1) Did Vegeta's rage made his power increase beyond it's limits like in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when Super Perfect Cell had killed Future Trunks during the Cell Games?

Under normal DB logic, Vegeta would've gotten the same boost against Beerus as he did against Cell: fucking nothing.

Under new DB (see also moronic logic) Vegeta would've surpassed SS Vegetto before fusion even existed and vaporized Cell.

[TheUltimateNinja]

1) Did Vegeta's rage made his power increase beyond it's limits like in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when Super Perfect Cell had killed Future Trunks during the Cell Games?

Under normal DB logic, Vegeta would've gotten the same boost against Beerus as he did against Cell: fucking nothing.

Under new DB (see also moronic logic) Vegeta would've surpassed SS Vegetto before fusion even existed and vaporized Cell.

Vegeta could have gotten a pretty huge boost and still ended up much weaker than Cell at that point. Because even as an SSJ2 he'd barely measure up to regular SSJ Gohan, so he could have gotten a rage boost that gave him an even bigger boost than SSJ2 would have.

Of course, nothing implies he got any sort of substantial boost or any boost at all, but it's possible that he got a significant one.

[ekrolo2]

1) Did Vegeta's rage made his power increase beyond it's limits like in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods when Super Perfect Cell had killed Future Trunks during the Cell Games?

Under normal DB logic, Vegeta would've gotten the same boost against Beerus as he did against Cell: fucking nothing.

Under new DB (see also moronic logic) Vegeta would've surpassed SS Vegetto before fusion even existed and vaporized Cell.

Vegeta could have gotten a pretty huge boost and still ended up much weaker than Cell at that point. Because even as an SSJ2 he'd barely measure up to regular SSJ Gohan, so he could have gotten a rage boost that gave him an even bigger boost than SSJ2 would have.

Of course, nothing implies he got any sort of substantial boost or any boost at all, but it's possible that he got a significant one.

Gohan's the only guy who gets rage boosts, a pre-established character who's never gotten them before suddenly doing them is BS for me and I'm not even saying this as a fan of Gohan, I don't care for the guy but rage boosts are specifically his thing.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Under normal DB logic, Vegeta would've gotten the same boost against Beerus as he did against Cell: fucking nothing.

Under new DB (see also moronic logic) Vegeta would've surpassed SS Vegetto before fusion even existed and vaporized Cell.

Vegeta could have gotten a pretty huge boost and still ended up much weaker than Cell at that point. Because even as an SSJ2 he'd barely measure up to regular SSJ Gohan, so he could have gotten a rage boost that gave him an even bigger boost than SSJ2 would have.

Of course, nothing implies he got any sort of substantial boost or any boost at all, but it's possible that he got a significant one.

Gohan's the only guy who gets rage boosts, a pre-established character who's never gotten them before suddenly doing them is BS for me and I'm not even saying this as a fan of Gohan, I don't care for the guy but rage boosts are specifically his thing.

Not necessarily, Kid Goku became slightly stronger when he got angry as well.

Also, I believe Gohan's rage boosts are pretty nonsensical regardless of their already being established. I get that the idea is that he's normally too scared to use his real power and can only bring it out when he's angry and all, but this excuse only works in the Saiyan Arc.

He becomes a bit braver in the Namek Arc and by this point he should be able to bring out a good amount of his power on his own, yet in the Freeza arc he goes from being a bit stronger than Ginyu-Goku who was at 23,000 to being stronger than 2nd form Freeza who was at over a million through rage boost alone. That's almost the same boost as SSJ, Gohan basically went Super Saiyan in that arc which makes Vegeta wondering if Gohan was a Super Saiyan all along totally valid.

[ekrolo2]

Not necessarily, Kid Goku became slightly stronger when he got angry as well.

Also, I believe Gohan's rage boosts are pretty nonsensical regardless of their already being established. I get that the idea is that he's normally too scared to use his real power and can only bring it out when he's angry and all, but this excuse only works in the Saiyan Arc.

He becomes a bit braver in the Namek Arc and by this point he should be able to bring out a good amount of his power on his own, yet in the Freeza arc he goes from being a bit stronger than Ginyu-Goku who was at 23,000 to being stronger than 2nd form Freeza who was at over a million through rage boost alone. That's almost the same boost as SSJ, Gohan basically went Super Saiyan in that arc which makes Vegeta wondering if Gohan was a Super Saiyan all along totally valid.

Did he get any power up? Cause Tambourine kicks his ass until Goku eats up to replenish his energy reserves, that's the primary reason he lost.

Regardless of how much sense Gohan's rage boosts make for his personality, the series always treated it as something unique to him, something nobody else can do. Certainly not freaking Vegeta's who's standard personality is barely contained, stomach ulcer-inducing anger.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Not necessarily, Kid Goku became slightly stronger when he got angry as well.

Also, I believe Gohan's rage boosts are pretty nonsensical regardless of their already being established. I get that the idea is that he's normally too scared to use his real power and can only bring it out when he's angry and all, but this excuse only works in the Saiyan Arc.

He becomes a bit braver in the Namek Arc and by this point he should be able to bring out a good amount of his power on his own, yet in the Freeza arc he goes from being a bit stronger than Ginyu-Goku who was at 23,000 to being stronger than 2nd form Freeza who was at over a million through rage boost alone. That's almost the same boost as SSJ, Gohan basically went Super Saiyan in that arc which makes Vegeta wondering if Gohan was a Super Saiyan all along totally valid.

Did he get any power up? Cause Tambourine kicks his ass until Goku eats up to replenish his energy reserves, that's the primary reason he lost.

Regardless of how much sense Gohan's rage boosts make for his personality, the series always treated it as something unique to him, something nobody else can do. Certainly not freaking Vegeta's who's standard personality is barely contained, stomach ulcer-inducing anger.

The gap between Goku's real power and Kuririn isn't all that large since Goku had to use his full match level power to finish him. Goku's maximum match level power was slightly above Jackie Chun who Tenshinhan would have experienced some trouble defeating if he hadn't forfeited, so the gap between Goku's match level power and his battle level power probably isn't too big either.

All in all, Kuririn probably measures up to a decent amount of Goku's power, I'd estimate him at 60-70% of Goku if we were to use battle power. Tambourine was able to stomp Kuririn pretty easily, so he has to have a fairly considerable advantage over Kuririn which would place him pretty close to Goku's real power, yet when Goku faces him after he eats he easily kills him at record speed, suggesting he got a bit of a power boost from anger.

Anyway, I don't see why Gohan should be the only one able to get rage boosts, if he can magically pull power out of nowhere the others should be able to do it too.

[ekrolo2]

All in all, Kuririn probably measures up to a decent amount of Goku's power, I'd estimate him at 60-70% of Goku if we were to use battle power. Tambourine was able to stomp Kuririn pretty easily, so he has to have a fairly considerable advantage over Kuririn which would place him pretty close to Goku's real power, yet when Goku faces him after he eats he easily kills him at record speed, suggesting he got a bit of a power boost from anger.

Anyway, I don't see why Gohan should be the only one able to get rage boosts, if he can magically pull power out of nowhere the others should be able to do it too.

Or Tambourine is worth merely 80% of Goku's full power and the gap between them allows 100% Goku to beat him. Clearly, Tambourine isn't as strong as Tien otherwise Goku wouldn't have stomped him as effortlessly as he does.

Gohan's rage boosts are him tapping into his hidden potential, something the others don't have. The half-breeds have a lot of strength already in the tank and just need to work to unlock it, full Saiyan's don't have this but instead push their existing limits more and more.

For example, if you plopped 4-year-old Gohan in front of Old Kai, he'd become just as powerful as his Boo arc self. If you did the same to Kid Goku or Boo arc Goku, he'd get marginally stronger at absolute best. If full Saiyan's got rage boosts, that's the only kind of one's you could make me buy: marginal at best and certainly not Vegeta's ridiculous boost from the Super anime where he's worth 10% of Beerus' power or the Super manga where he's as strong as Super Vegetto.

[TheUltimateNinja]

All in all, Kuririn probably measures up to a decent amount of Goku's power, I'd estimate him at 60-70% of Goku if we were to use battle power. Tambourine was able to stomp Kuririn pretty easily, so he has to have a fairly considerable advantage over Kuririn which would place him pretty close to Goku's real power, yet when Goku faces him after he eats he easily kills him at record speed, suggesting he got a bit of a power boost from anger.

Anyway, I don't see why Gohan should be the only one able to get rage boosts, if he can magically pull power out of nowhere the others should be able to do it too.

Or Tambourine is worth merely 80% of Goku's full power and the gap between them allows 100% Goku to beat him. Clearly, Tambourine isn't as strong as Tien otherwise Goku wouldn't have stomped him as effortlessly as he does.

Gohan's rage boosts are him tapping into his hidden potential, something the others don't have. The half-breeds have a lot of strength already in the tank and just need to work to unlock it, full Saiyan's don't have this but instead push their existing limits more and more.

For example, if you plopped 4-year-old Gohan in front of Old Kai, he'd become just as powerful as his Boo arc self. If you did the same to Kid Goku or Boo arc Goku, he'd get marginally stronger at absolute best. If full Saiyan's got rage boosts, that's the only kind of one's you could make me buy: marginal at best and certainly not Vegeta's ridiculous boost from the Super anime where he's worth 10% of Beerus' power or the Super manga where he's as strong as Super Vegetto.

Speaking of Vegeta's huge power boost, I've been wondering what to do with that in my BoG rewrite. I've been considering two options:
A: Remove it entirely, either have the scene not happen at all or if it does, make the boost so small as to be mostly negligible.

B: Explain it by saying that when a Saiyan from the royal bloodline completely masters SSJ2, they can draw out some God ki in moments of desperation. The actual explanation is going be more in depth, but that's the gist of it. I'm considering this because it would also explain Trunks' performance against Black and Zamasu.

[ekrolo2]

All in all, Kuririn probably measures up to a decent amount of Goku's power, I'd estimate him at 60-70% of Goku if we were to use battle power. Tambourine was able to stomp Kuririn pretty easily, so he has to have a fairly considerable advantage over Kuririn which would place him pretty close to Goku's real power, yet when Goku faces him after he eats he easily kills him at record speed, suggesting he got a bit of a power boost from anger.

Anyway, I don't see why Gohan should be the only one able to get rage boosts, if he can magically pull power out of nowhere the others should be able to do it too.

Or Tambourine is worth merely 80% of Goku's full power and the gap between them allows 100% Goku to beat him. Clearly, Tambourine isn't as strong as Tien otherwise Goku wouldn't have stomped him as effortlessly as he does.

Gohan's rage boosts are him tapping into his hidden potential, something the others don't have. The half-breeds have a lot of strength already in the tank and just need to work to unlock it, full Saiyan's don't have this but instead push their existing limits more and more.

For example, if you plopped 4-year-old Gohan in front of Old Kai, he'd become just as powerful as his Boo arc self. If you did the same to Kid Goku or Boo arc Goku, he'd get marginally stronger at absolute best. If full Saiyan's got rage boosts, that's the only kind of one's you could make me buy: marginal at best and certainly not Vegeta's ridiculous boost from the Super anime where he's worth 10% of Beerus' power or the Super manga where he's as strong as Super Vegetto.

Speaking of Vegeta's huge power boost, I've been wondering what to do with that in my BoG rewrite. I've been considering two options:
A: Remove it entirely, either have the scene not happen at all or if it does, make the boost so small as to be mostly negligible.

B: Explain it by saying that when a Saiyan from the royal bloodline completely masters SSJ2, they can draw out some God ki in moments of desperation. The actual explanation is going be more in depth, but that's the gist of it. I'm considering this because it would also explain Trunks' performance against Black and Zamasu.

One of the ideas I had for it is this: after the Boo arc, Vegeta kept on training because he likes to and tries to push himself to SS3 but he fails to do it properly. Instead, he can only, for a short spurt of time, double SS2s power but doing so is very taxing and he loses a massive amount of chi for forcing his body into this "Ascended SS2" state.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Or Tambourine is worth merely 80% of Goku's full power and the gap between them allows 100% Goku to beat him. Clearly, Tambourine isn't as strong as Tien otherwise Goku wouldn't have stomped him as effortlessly as he does.

Gohan's rage boosts are him tapping into his hidden potential, something the others don't have. The half-breeds have a lot of strength already in the tank and just need to work to unlock it, full Saiyan's don't have this but instead push their existing limits more and more.

For example, if you plopped 4-year-old Gohan in front of Old Kai, he'd become just as powerful as his Boo arc self. If you did the same to Kid Goku or Boo arc Goku, he'd get marginally stronger at absolute best. If full Saiyan's got rage boosts, that's the only kind of one's you could make me buy: marginal at best and certainly not Vegeta's ridiculous boost from the Super anime where he's worth 10% of Beerus' power or the Super manga where he's as strong as Super Vegetto.

Speaking of Vegeta's huge power boost, I've been wondering what to do with that in my BoG rewrite. I've been considering two options:
A: Remove it entirely, either have the scene not happen at all or if it does, make the boost so small as to be mostly negligible.

B: Explain it by saying that when a Saiyan from the royal bloodline completely masters SSJ2, they can draw out some God ki in moments of desperation. The actual explanation is going be more in depth, but that's the gist of it. I'm considering this because it would also explain Trunks' performance against Black and Zamasu.

One of the ideas I had for it is this: after the Boo arc, Vegeta kept on training because he likes to and tries to push himself to SS3 but he fails to do it properly. Instead, he can only, for a short spurt of time, double SS2s power but doing so is very taxing and he loses a massive amount of chi for forcing his body into this "Ascended SS2" state.

That would still make him trash to Beerus and even SSJ3 Goku, though, I feel that if the scene is going to be there at all he might as well accomplish something like surpassing Goku, even if only for a brief moment.

[ekrolo2]

That would still make him trash to Beerus and even SSJ3 Goku, though, I feel that if the scene is going to be there at all he might as well accomplish something like surpassing Goku, even if only for a brief moment.

Then I'd just say you should cut it out. The point of Vegeta making an ass of himself in the movie is him humiliating himself to save everyone's lives, even if they don't know it. That's a lot more powerful, especially for a guy as prideful as Vegeta than getting mad over Bulma getting hit. He's already proven how far he's willing to go to save her and the others before that moment but I guess Toriyama wanted to throw his fans a bone.

[TheUltimateNinja]

That would still make him trash to Beerus and even SSJ3 Goku, though, I feel that if the scene is going to be there at all he might as well accomplish something like surpassing Goku, even if only for a brief moment.

Then I'd just say you should cut it out. The point of Vegeta making an ass of himself in the movie is him humiliating himself to save everyone's lives, even if they don't know it. That's a lot more powerful, especially for a guy as prideful as Vegeta than getting mad over Bulma getting hit. He's already proven how far he's willing to go to save her and the others before that moment but I guess Toriyama wanted to throw his fans a bone.

That's what I did at first, but once I saw Trunks somehow keeping up with Gods using only SSJ2 I started considering the God ki explanation, they're both of the royal bloodline and coincidentally also the only ones who display these feats in SSJ2.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I don't know if this is a new observation or not but I just realized that in every single one of Goku's bouts in the BT finals, pre-DBZ, his opponent will almost immediately gain the upper hand only for Goku to bounce back from it like nothing happened.

[kinisking]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

I'm over it. I just"Foe" anyone who's acting ridiculous nowadays. What we have here is better than any alternative, so I won't complain.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

I'm over it. I just"Foe" anyone who's acting ridiculous nowadays. What we have here is better than any alternative, so I won't complain.

I've only got one person on my foe list right now.

[kinisking]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

I'm over it. I just"Foe" anyone who's acting ridiculous nowadays. What we have here is better than any alternative, so I won't complain.

I've only got one person on my foe list right now.

Just to be clear, those examples were from outside Kanzenshuu. I hope to god I'll never have an experience as bad as those here.

Some people on Kanzenshuu annoy me considerably but I haven't seen someone that's made me lose hope in them enough to "foe" them.

[Soppa Saia People]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

I'm over it. I just"Foe" anyone who's acting ridiculous nowadays. What we have here is better than any alternative, so I won't complain.

I've only got one person on my foe list right now.

I had like 15 at one point.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The community out of Kanzenshuu (and even on here sometimes ) can piss me off sometimes. You can tell a person an undeniable fact and they'll continue to disagree even with proof. I'll never forget the time where I argued with a guy on whether or not teen Gohan went ssj2 or was just a really angry super Saiyan. Or the time someone thought boo and cell were weaker than Freeza but their regeneration was the only thing that gave them the edge.

The community/fandom in general is in pretty poor shape and Super has just made things unbearably worse. The biggest problem I have (and I have fallen in the trap aswellin the past) is the tendency for over-reactions and the fact that people are just never satisfied and the fact people are just not willing to "learn" and are so headstrong. ie why the old dub is bad etc. The fanbase is beyond repair. I love Kanzenshuu but these last few years haven't been so great, I don't know why I feel that way but I think there is too much negativity around here I guess, some of it can't be helped sure but it is fact that people seem to be feeding onto it, for example most time I visit the animation page there is always a discussion about the crappy production state, when I visit the Kai forum it is the green tint, cropping, music etc. I am just like eurgh can we just drop it.
A regular member on here said while he still loves Kanzenshuu emotionally detaching himself from the forums was one of the best things he has done and I think I understand what he means. I did sort of do that for a bit (during the U6 arc of DBS) but then came back regularly, but I think I will attempt to lower the times I visit here. Twitter is great in the regard that you can essentially pick your community there, and I don't find it surprising that there are some really old members who hardly post here nowadays are quite active on there.