Shueisha's 'Dragon Ball' Room, New Department Focused on Dragon Ball

[ekrolo2]

Hasn't One Piece found a lot of trouble getting fans in the west? I know Bleach and especially Naruto hit big there but One Piece, not so much.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Hasn't One Piece found a lot of trouble getting fans in the west? I know Bleach and especially Naruto hit big there but One Piece, not so much.

It still has a pretty huge fan-base. It did have a hard time transitioning away from the 4-Kids Era, but it's doing okay now.

[ABED]

It's a shame that these two are often considered Top 3 along with DB when you have much better manga/adaptations like Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho.

The reason those 3 are the big 3 is because of all the effort put into them compared to the examples you mentioned and other anime/manga.

You really think Dragon Ball's greater popularity is a matter of effort?

[sintzu]

You really think Dragon Ball's greater popularity is a matter of effort?

The original run had 508 episodes, 17 movies, 2 TV specials, 520 chapters, Z, it's movies & 2 TV specials got turned into Animanga, the dragon boxes, the manga's re-release & it had countless video games up to 2007 before we started getting new animated projects.

It got pushed even more starting in 2008 with new animated projects, Heroes & more of the above.

So yes, that kind of effort will get a franchise popularity.

[ABED]

You really think Dragon Ball's greater popularity is a matter of effort?

The original run had 508 episodes, 17 movies, 2 TV specials, 520 chapters, Z, it's movies & 2 TV specials got turned into Animanga, the dragon boxes, the manga's re-release & it had countless video games up to 2007 before we started getting new animated projects.

It got pushed even more starting in 2008 with new animated projects, Heroes & more of the above.

So yes, that kind of effort will get a franchise popularity.

You're putting the cart before the horse. DB got the push because it was popular.

[sintzu]

You're putting the cart before the horse. DB got the push because it was popular.

It didn't get popular out of the air, it needed those products to get it there.

I got into it through the games so if it weren't for Tenkaichi 1, I might not have anything to do with the entire anime/manga genre.

[ABED]

You're putting the cart before the horse. DB got the push because it was popular.

It didn't get popular out of the air, it needed those products to get it there.

I got into it through the games so if it weren't for Tenkaichi 1, I might not have anything to do with the entire anime/manga genre.

It wasn't out of thin air. The manga started to get popular because it struck a nerve with the audience. They wouldn't have made so many products if they didn't think it would bring in revenue. You're partially correct, but this isn't a chicken or the egg scenario. Creating a bunch of merchandise doesn't guarantee a return on investment. Plenty of products have had strong pushes only to fail. The reason the decision makers haven't put a lot of money behind products of the series you've mentioned is they don't think the investment would pay off. If it was as you say, then there'd be no reason to not put more out there.

[sintzu]

It wasn't thin air. The manga started to get popular because it struck a nerve with the audience. They wouldn't have made so many products if they didn't think it would bring in revenue. You're partially correct, but this isn't a chicken or the egg scenario. Creating a bunch of merchandise doesn't guarantee a return on investment. Plenty of products have had strong pushes only to fail.

I fully agree that the story is the main reason it's popular but you have to admit that DB's products played a really big role in its popularity cause you can't escape it (this also applies to Naruto and One Piece), it's everywhere.

Let's look at Yu Yu Hakusho for example,it has a really good story but no one does anything with it so it's not as popular which means you need more than a good story to get people into something.

More people would find out about it through a video game, a new movie, a full color manga re-release or a new 12-25 episode anime.

I think the main issue is Shueisha, they have DB, Naruto & One Piece so they're just happy with that and don't think they need anything else.

[ABED]

It wasn't thin air. The manga started to get popular because it struck a nerve with the audience. They wouldn't have made so many products if they didn't think it would bring in revenue. You're partially correct, but this isn't a chicken or the egg scenario. Creating a bunch of merchandise doesn't guarantee a return on investment. Plenty of products have had strong pushes only to fail.

I fully agree that the story is the main reason it's popular but you have to admit that DB's products played a really big role in its popularity cause you can't escape it (this also applies to Naruto and One Piece), it's everywhere.

Let's look at Yu Yu Hakusho for example,it has a really good story but no one does anything with it so it's not as popular which means you need more than a good story to get people into something.

More people would find out about it through a video game, a new movie, a full color manga re-release or a new 12-25 episode anime.

I think the main issue is Shueisha, they have DB, Naruto & One Piece so they're just happy with that and don't think they need anything else.

Yeah, the story is the reason it's popular, but that wasn't what I wrote. I wrote that the show and the manga had already gotten popular before the big push. The big push helped its popularity, sure, but it wouldn't have gotten it had the series not been seen as able to ensure a healthy return.

If we take your statement to its conclusion, then FUNi was just saying "We don't want to put more effort into YYH. Thanks, but we have enough money." What company leaves money on the table like that?

[sintzu]

What company leaves money on the table like that?

Companies who are too afraid to take risks and leave their confert zone.

[ABED]

What company leaves money on the table like that?

Companies who are too afraid to take risks and leave their confert zone.

But it's not a big risk if they are leaving money on the table. By your logic, the big push ensures a return.

[ChronoTwigger]

Main characters couldn't change?
Oh well, someone tell this to Tomino and Gundam staff, Go Nagai and Hirohiko Araki. To great master Tezuka. Oh, and the guys of Gurrenn Lagann too.
As long as the result is good and explanations are plausible, you can do whatever.
It's something that instead happen quite often, and people enjoy to see the same tropes in a new context.

Isn't Gundam a brand new set of characters every series? THat's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying after at the very least 3 or 4 seasons of the same main character, switching is problematic. If the structure of the show is new characters every season, that's inherently different.

Sorry that late reply.
Not entirely. All the direct sequels in Gundam had almost the entire cast return, but one of the main characters. Some depict the same events with different POV. And main characters do cameo or star in movies. It was a smart move to keep alive the franchise while moving away from a completed arc. It started in 1979 but the narrative arc ended in 1994. And the main characters where always there as movie stars, specials and retell.
The real change was when they stopped following that era and created side universes, like G Gundam, Gundam Wing and so on.
That's an example, but one again is JoJo. Two arcs without recurring characters, then... recurring characters all over.
As long as it's well executed, you can switch at will, even after years. That thing was never tried in Dragon Ball, as Gohan was a blank carboncopy of Goku, without any reason to exist if not to wait, love and follow his father.
There wasn't any change, "problematic" is theoretical and not verified so far. I think is more of a risky move the production don't try, than anything. But is still possible.
As long as it's well executed, and that's a mandatory point.

[Deathbringer]

As long as it's well executed, you can switch at will, even after years. That thing was never tried in Dragon Ball, as Gohan was a blank carboncopy of Goku, without any reason to exist if not to wait, love and follow his father.

He's not a carbon copy, Goten was a carbon copy of Goku but Gohan doesn't have the same energy, it's often pointed out in the series that Gohan is different from Goku, yes when he gets serious and does stuff like fighting Super Boo he could easily be swapped with Goku and it would be the same but you could also say that it could be Piccolo or Vegeta as well.

Also Dragon Ball has been going on for too long to change Goku as main character, JoJo did it at the start and it became a staple of that series but when people think Dragon Ball they think of Goku, especially people who haven't read or seen it.

[Noah]

It's a shame that these two are often considered Top 3 along with DB when you have much better manga/adaptations like Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho.

The reason those 3 are the big 3 is because of all the effort put into them compared to the examples you mentioned and other anime/manga.

First of all, I'm not denying that DB being on Top 3, second I prefer a story that indeed has a beginning, middle, and end over one that is so stretched that eventually becomes very dull to watch/read just because it has much "effort" put into it.

[ABED]

Main characters couldn't change?
Oh well, someone tell this to Tomino and Gundam staff, Go Nagai and Hirohiko Araki. To great master Tezuka. Oh, and the guys of Gurrenn Lagann too.
As long as the result is good and explanations are plausible, you can do whatever.
It's something that instead happen quite often, and people enjoy to see the same tropes in a new context.

Isn't Gundam a brand new set of characters every series? THat's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying after at the very least 3 or 4 seasons of the same main character, switching is problematic. If the structure of the show is new characters every season, that's inherently different.

Sorry that late reply.
Not entirely. All the direct sequels in Gundam had almost the entire cast return, but one of the main characters. Some depict the same events with different POV. And main characters do cameo or star in movies. It was a smart move to keep alive the franchise while moving away from a completed arc. It started in 1979 but the narrative arc ended in 1994. And the main characters where always there as movie stars, specials and retell.
The real change was when they stopped following that era and created side universes, like G Gundam, Gundam Wing and so on.
That's an example, but one again is JoJo. Two arcs without recurring characters, then... recurring characters all over.
As long as it's well executed, you can switch at will, even after years. That thing was never tried in Dragon Ball, as Gohan was a blank carboncopy of Goku, without any reason to exist if not to wait, love and follow his father.
There wasn't any change, "problematic" is theoretical and not verified so far. I think is more of a risky move the production don't try, than anything. But is still possible.
As long as it's well executed, and that's a mandatory point.

I have to disagree on principle for the simple reason that after years of emotional investment, switching main characters takes away the emotional equity that had been built up over time with the original character(s). People keep using JoJo as an example but again, doesn't count because the switch is a lot like Super Sentai, it's a regular occurrence from damn near the beginning. Dragon Ball did try to make the change to Gohan at the beginning of the Cell arc through the early Majin Buu arc. While I like Gohan, he's best as an important character, but not the main character.

[sintzu]

I prefer a story that indeed has a beginning, middle, and end over one that is so stretched that eventually becomes very dull to watch/read just because it has much "effort" put into it.

That's the price you have to pay for that kind of popularity otherwise your product falls off the map.

[Cipher]

That's the price you have to pay for that kind of popularity otherwise your product falls off the map.

I mean, it's more like that's what happens when you start thinking of a work as a "product," rather than a story.

[ABED]

Product isn't a dirty word. A story is a product.

[Rukawa11]

Luffy is voiced by Tanaka Mayumi and she is one of the legendary voice actors like Nozawa Masako. That's one of the many reasons to remember Luffy.

When One Piece finally ends, no one is gonna get into it twenty years later just by seeing a picture of Luffy (or the cast in general - in fact, it might serve as a turnoff). Even the most hardcore OP fan would never tell you that Luffy looks impressive (never mind "catchy"). Eichiro Oda has tried so hard to give Luffy some Goku-esque powering up poses and even stole the Kaio-ken and called it "Gear Second," but Luffy still doesn't look all that eye-catching.
You show anybody (with the potential to watch Anime, of course) a picture of Adult Goku or the the Super Saiyan gang, on the other hand, and their curiosity would very likely be aroused even if it's half a century after the franchise's end. DB/Z has a special/ imposing look about it. I'm not talking about the depth of its characters or who they're voiced by or anything else that people discover after watching the show. This is all about the visual aspect and the kind of impact it would have on someone who wasn't even born when the show aired and/ or ended.

I don't see One Piece ending anytime soon, and the impact it has had is enough to be remembered forever.

It'll be remembered forever, but we're not talking about those who've watched it. I just can't see someone two decades after OP's end being encouraged to watch it just because of its iconic status. They'd require an imposing visual aspect to go along with it, and that's what the Super Saiyans of DBZ bring.
If an iconic status alone was all it took for future generations to get into the old school Anime that's One Piece 20 years after ending, then the current generation would be watching Urusei Yatsura (1981), Captain Tsubasa (1983), Touch (1985), Yawara! (1989), Slam Dunk (1993) instead of One-Punch Man, Tokyo Ghoul, Psycho Pass, Akame ga Kill...etc. You just need to picture a time where One Piece is an old school Anime that had ended twenty years ago, and ask yourself how many would be keen on watching it? DBZ, on the other hand, has proven that many would certainly be keen on watching it no matter how old it gets because you won't find many Animes like it (Especially since DBZ is the type of show where you're immediately caught if you try to copy its style).

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Disagreed on all counts. You're making a lot of assumptions based on absolutely nothing. How can you possibly tell what attracts a particular person to a particular show? How? It's impossible.

I introduced some of my non-anime friends to Naruto and they instantly got hooked for example. Now, the reasons for why they like it compared to mine is different, but they still like it. Tanaka Mayumi's voice is the reason I associate with Luffy and cause of that Luffy will be remembered forever for me. I can't speak for anyone else and neither should you. It's impossible I mean.

Super Saiyans are popular? Agreed. But, Luffy's gear transformations are too. It's popular among the OP fanbase. Whether OP will be remembered 20 years later or not remains to be seen, but if it has managed to remain super popular all these years, it is not wrong to assume that it will be after a long time too.

As far as visuals are concerned once again I can only speak for myself cause I don't know what draws people into a show and it's impossible to tell what other people's tastes are Oda draws just as visually appealing characters as Toriyama. I'm 150 chapters into the manga now and I quite like his art.