Robo4900 wrote:Danfun64 wrote:sometimes strange terminology is used a few times and then never used again like "Golden Nimbus"
If by sometimes, you mean once or twice across the entire run, which you have continued to bang on about endlessly since noticing them, then sure.
(For context to others: Danfun and I are friends and have been comparing the scripts of the BW, Funi, BLT, and Japanese versions of DB for a while)
Danfun64 wrote:on the other side of things you'd have an episode based off the Funi DB script, then switching to a different script (often more accurate)...only to go back to Funi's scripts within a few episodes later.
Which is only a consistency problem if you're comparing scripts... In terms of actually watching it, it works utterly fine. However, it does give Blue Water a significant edge in accuracy, even if this edge is lesser or greater depending on the episode.
Danfun64 wrote:That being said, despite that as well as the problems with using the AB Groupe footage as a base (resulting in some scenes with Japanese text being cut, some scenes cut for no reason except maybe time, and the Namekian text being cut from the episode where Kami and Piccolo talk to each other completely changing the meaning of the scene) it still felt like a more professional production than Funi DB.
I do feel like these problems are easy to overstate. Yes, these are problems. Are they more intrusive than the less accurate scripts, worse acting from a smaller pool of actors, less professional production, and even -- as you yourself once put it -- the fact BW DB has a more enjoyable feel to it than Funi DB...? I believe you and I even at one point discussed the general feeling of Funi DB being a sort of "BEFORE ZEE, BEFORE GEETEE, THERE WAS DRAGON BALL!!", while BW DB is more of an honest presentation of Dragon Ball, delivered under certain limitations.
I think BW DB is still the least-worst option as far as DB dubbing. Yes, it's flawed. All of them are. All of them are censored to various degrees, but BW handles it better. Despite the fact the Pilaf and 21st Tenkaichi scripts would deviate in odd ways from time to time, the overall picture the two of us have observed in our time comparing the scripts is that BW tends to correct Funi's scripts. Usually that means rewriting most scenes to just be better-written dialogue, quite often it means either gutting or changing Funi's infamous cases of liberal adaptation, every now and then it means chucking the script out and writing based off a proper Japanese translation... But in general, it does give BW a notable edge in both accuracy and dialogue quality.
So... It's not clear-cut. If "Uncut" is a term that blindly makes you immediately default to the dub it applies to, excepting all other factors, then sure, you'll probably do okay with Funi's dub. But that probably means you'll also watch Funi's "Remastered" Z dub, even though this comparison is imperfect as there isn't a
more accurate alternate dub... Ultimately, watching dubbed will be a censored, messy experience whatever route you choose. I personally would say the generally more professional production of BW gives it a significant edge, as does its better dialogue, and slightly higher accuracy. And much as Zoe Slusar and Leda Davies are not perfect castings, I'd say they're sure as hell better than Nadolny and Vollmer, neither of whom could act their way out of a paper bag in Dragon Ball. Perhaps not their fault -- I personally still blame a lot of Dragon Ball's dubbing problems under Funimation on poor direction and scripting, but nevertheless, I do think they were poor choices for those roles, and gave very poor performances... And while BW's voices tended to be less distinctive than Funi's, it's clear they were working with a large pool of actors with experience, who didn't need to put any real effort in to distinguish themselves from each-other, as their natural voices are quite different, which of course does stretch to any odd/character voices... This is opposed to Funi's approach of stretching their handful of actors far by making them put on countless bad accents and unnatural voices that stunted their ability to perform under the already rather poor direction they had, and the most awful scripts you'll see...
Plus,
filling in the insert songs they couldn't license was a good decision on BW's part. Those scenes are really damn weird in Funi's dub, where they either have to add tons of extra dialogue that arguably actually takes away from the scene, or they just go along with a very empty-sounding section of episode.
Still, to each their own. This is only my take, but I'm fairly confident in it; the more professional production of Blue Water's dub, combined with its generally more-accurate scripting, just makes it an obvious winner compared to the amateurish mess of Funi's dub, in my eyes.
MasenkoHA wrote:I really wish the BLT dub had gotten a chance on Fox Kids with all 153 episodes even if the music would have been replaced and the content edited to meet broadcast standards it would have been a fun kitschy 90s kid action-adventure cartoon and maybe Dragon Ball would have gotten more respect in the West.
What the BLT dub got already was given a decent chance, and in fact I recall hearing reports that the ratings were rather good, though I can't find that info myself at this time. There's no real way of knowing why Funimation cut their initial 26-episode order of Dragon Ball down to 13, and then switched to Saban and did Z, but I don't think it was a case of Dragon Ball failing. I think Funi just didn't like working with BLT and/or Trimark and/or the producers they were working with at Dick And Rogers(I'm unsure on the details here, but as I understand it, a different studio and group of Canadian producers were working on Dragon Ball from the guys Funimation got from Ocean for Z. Michael Donovan and Doug Parker did script and direction work for DB, but not only did neither do those duties in Z, their characters in the show were recast too; Parker gave up Shen Long to Don Brown, Donovan gave up Roshi to Ian Corlett)... Whatever happened, I don't think Z's initial ratings were that much better than DB's for its 26-episode order, and yet not only did it finish that order, but when combined with the traction it built up over its run, and in the reruns that followed, it was considered quite a success, leading to season 2 being extended to 29 episodes(Including the 3-part Tree Of Might special), which were also a rather big hit.
The idea that Dragon Ball only became a success when Toonami ran Z in 1999 is one of many, many, many cases of revisionist history in the Dragon Ball fandom that has no evidence behind it. Meanwhile, on Kanzenshuu,
there's clear evidence to the contrary... "Currently syndicated in the US by Saban Domestic Distribution in its Saban’s Kids Block, DRAGON BALL Z is being broadcast in over 85% of the country with top ratings for a weekly syndicated series (especially in they [sic] key boys 6-11 demographic). [...]"
Anyway, point is, I don't think any chance that involved the companies it did would have saved the BLT dub. If they'd somehow come to some arrangement with Saban to do OG DB, it still would have most certainly been cut short, though it would have run closer to 80 episodes instead of Dragon Ball's 13, or Z's 56. We'd end up with starting with DB, but there's no reason to believe anything else would have been different about the situation.
MasenkoHA wrote:It is shame that they didn’t have the Ocean cast just pick up where they left off and finish Dragon Ball.
Wouldn't have happened. If the Westwood dubbing of the Dragon Ball franchise hadn't moved to Blue Water, there's nothing to suggest they would have handled anything else differently. Remember, the decision to move the voices was from Ken Morrison, head of Ocean, who I've heard wanted to give GT and DB to Blue Water to give the then-young studio a bit project. So, things probably would have been the same in terms of the scripts they worked off, the episodes they dubbed, the video masters they used, etc.
Still, yes, it would've been great if they'd kept the DB and GT Westwood dubs in Vancouver, but if wishes were horses...
MasenkoHA wrote:Also want to add from what little I heard I prefer BW King Piccolo over Chris Sabat
Well, Chris Sabat sucked as Piccolo Daimao.
I love Chris Sabat, I think he's great as Vegeta now, but his Piccolo Daimao in DB sucked. Meanwhile, the guy they got from BW was actually kind of great.
