GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[Lord Beerus]

There's no true definition of fanservice, but stuff like a father-son combo of a popular move doesn't strike me as fanservice, or at least of the negative variety. Bad fanservice is "Hey look, it's 3PO and R2 in Rogue One!"

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Forgot about that.

Don't forget the Darth Vader scene at the end of the movie. Did that really need to happen?

[ekrolo2]

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Forgot about that.

Don't forget the Darth Vader scene at the end of the movie. Did that really need to happen?

Yes, because it was the only part of the movie where it wasn't boring enough to put me into a coma.

[ABED]

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Forgot about that.

Don't forget the Darth Vader scene at the end of the movie. Did that really need to happen?

Nah, but at least he makes more sense than random cameos. At least he has the excuse of being a figure head of The Empire and the plans to their most powerful weapon would be of importance to him. Sure, he could've been better integrated into the story which is why it does come off as fanservice, but I'll let it slide because that is among the best Vader moments in any of the movies.

Fan service, or just bad fan service, is when moments are characters are used in a story to appeal to people who are already fans without an organic reason to exist in the story.

[Kanassa]

There's no true definition of fanservice, but stuff like a father-son combo of a popular move doesn't strike me as fanservice, or at least of the negative variety. Bad fanservice is "Hey look, it's 3PO and R2 in Rogue One!"

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Geez, I don't remember either of them being in the movie...

[ekrolo2]

There's no true definition of fanservice, but stuff like a father-son combo of a popular move doesn't strike me as fanservice, or at least of the negative variety. Bad fanservice is "Hey look, it's 3PO and R2 in Rogue One!"

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Geez, I don't remember either of them being in the movie...

Your memory is considerably kinder to you than mine is.

[Kanassa]

Not as bad as the Ep4 cantina thugs being in it

Geez, I don't remember either of them being in the movie...

Your memory is considerably kinder to you than mine is.

Maybe I subconsciously ignored it because I actually liked Rouge One?

[ekrolo2]

Maybe I subconsciously ignored it because I actually liked Rouge One?

[ABED]

Bringing it back to DB, while we can argue its merits, from what I'm reading, Super is doing a lot of fanservice. GT used elements from the past in homage and to push the story forward. The thing that bothers me about the overuse of fanservice is that it's inherently more concerned with appealing to the past than creating a new moment, image, story, character, etc.

[ekrolo2]

Bringing it back to DB, while we can argue its merits, from what I'm reading, Super is doing a lot of fanservice. GT used elements from the past in homage and to push the story forward. The thing that bothers me about the overuse of fanservice is that it's inherently more concerned with appealing to the past than creating a new moment, image, story, character, etc.

The Super manga tends to stick out more for me since Toyotaro blatantly takes a lot of stuff such as poses and the ways attacks happen to even battle damage right from the old stuff. Sometimes it's neat little stuff like a background from one of the films being used as a place of fighting but other time's its really obvious stuff such as an antagonist getting blown in half and looking a straight rip off of Cell when Vegeta did it to him.

[ABED]

Bringing it back to DB, while we can argue its merits, from what I'm reading, Super is doing a lot of fanservice. GT used elements from the past in homage and to push the story forward. The thing that bothers me about the overuse of fanservice is that it's inherently more concerned with appealing to the past than creating a new moment, image, story, character, etc.

The Super manga tends to stick out more for me since Toyotaro blatantly takes a lot of stuff such as poses and the ways attacks happen to even battle damage right from the old stuff. Sometimes it's neat little stuff like a background from one of the films being used as a place of fighting but other time's its really obvious stuff such as an antagonist getting blown in half and looking a straight rip off of Cell when Vegeta did it to him.

I understand the appeal, but unless it's the final episode or arc or something, I've grown not to like stuff like that. Even when the past is brought up, I prefer it to either push something forward or comment on some way on the present.

[Kanassa]

Maybe I subconsciously ignored it because I actually liked Rouge One?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Hey, hey, hey! It has some major problems, specifically not knowing what the fuck it wants to do with their characters (Erso's character arc seems to be reversed, her recruitment by the rebels and her interactions with her new 'team mates' as well as old faces makes her more inclined to stay out of the conflict. With one scene after she's shown how extreme the rebels can be and how they were fully prepared to bomb the fuck otta them, she's trying to personally reignite the hope within the Rebel forces. Shouldn't it be the other way round? With the extreme lengths the Rebels will go too and some of their ruthless methods as the main reason for her being unwilling to join their cause, and having her further interactions with her companions and seeing just what the Rebel's go through be what brings her to fight for hope?). But I appreciate the tone, acting and for it just having some really well done scenes. And that ending was awesome.

BUT THAT BLIND FORCE GUY IS FUCKING BULLSHIT! Hands down the worst thing about the new Star Wars material is how 'easy' the force is to use. Training, discipline, knowledge, willpower..., Fuck that, you just have to believe and you'll be just as good as a jedi master. This bullshit would make fuckers explode in the EU... Or get their soul eaten.

Also: WHERE. THE. FUCK. ARE. THE. BOTHONS!?

[ekrolo2]

Bringing it back to DB, while we can argue its merits, from what I'm reading, Super is doing a lot of fanservice. GT used elements from the past in homage and to push the story forward. The thing that bothers me about the overuse of fanservice is that it's inherently more concerned with appealing to the past than creating a new moment, image, story, character, etc.

The Super manga tends to stick out more for me since Toyotaro blatantly takes a lot of stuff such as poses and the ways attacks happen to even battle damage right from the old stuff. Sometimes it's neat little stuff like a background from one of the films being used as a place of fighting but other time's its really obvious stuff such as an antagonist getting blown in half and looking a straight rip off of Cell when Vegeta did it to him.

I understand the appeal, but unless it's the final episode or arc or something, I've grown not to like stuff like that. Even when the past is brought up, I prefer it to either push something forward or comment on some way on the present.

I get the appeal too but I can only really tolerate it as small throwbacks that aren't too forced or like you said, feel like a commentary on the present. Like, if you had a survivor of say Arlia show up on Earth and use him to parallel past Vegeta to the current one, there's good story potential there and you'd be winking/nodding back to an old, if filler, episode of Z to do it. Nothing wrong there.

BTW, hows Rebirth from DC treating you while we're on the topic of fanservice?

[ABED]

Also: WHERE. THE. FUCK. ARE. THE. BOTHONS!?

Wrong Death Star.

From what I've seen of Super, the tone seems more in line with DB than GT was. GT felt slightly more somber.

[Kanassa]

Like, if you had a survivor of say Arlia show up on Earth and use him to parallel past Vegeta to the current one, there's good story potential there and you'd be winking/nodding back to an old, if filler, episode of Z to do it.

Didn't DragonBall do that in Tien during the King Piccolo Arc?

[Kanassa]

From what I've seen of Super, the tone seems more in line with DB than GT was. GT felt slightly more somber.

Wait until you get to the Black Arc where the tone is basically "Sparkle, Sparkle, you are fucked"

[ekrolo2]

From what I've seen of Super, the tone seems more in line with DB than GT was. GT felt slightly more somber.

Wait until you get to the Black Arc where the tone is basically "Sparkle, Sparkle, you are fucked"

Even then, I wouldn't call the Black arc somber. It feels more like "Wow! Look at all this dark stuff happening! Isn't it cool?!".

GT felt like a big winding down period where every things kind of older, more tired and ready to lay this shit to rest already.

[ABED]

I'm referring to the tone of the series overall. Individual arcs can be darker than others, like King Piccolo and the Freeza arc are pretty dark, but the shows are generally lighthearted.

[Kanassa]

I'm referring to the tone of the series overall. Individual arcs can be darker than others, like King Piccolo and the Freeza arc are pretty dark, but the shows are generally lighthearted.

Also, outside of the BOG arc, the series does seem to be trying to slowly inch towards the consequences angel GT had. With all the bad shit going down is in some way connected to the actions of Goku (And Future Trunks).

[hectorgf]

Well, Dragon Ball already have a universe and a logic inside it. Even if that logic isn't great, there are possible explanations for things like Trunks learning the Mafuba so fast as he did. Foreshadowing is not always necessary.

Also, can you list all or most of those episodical incoherences or big bullshits? Cause I don't remember of them being in every episode, really.

And, the "how to make a fanservice stuff" it seems to me more a personal thing than a problem. I really liked when, as the example I used before, Goku used the instant transmission Kamehameha on Toppo. It was obvious, but didn't affected the story, or the storytelling, or anything like it. It was just a reference that you can ignore or not.
Being honest, the only one that I think it passed the limit was that Genki-dama Sword Trunks used to defeat Merged Zamasu. That was purely based in the "power of friendship and humanbeing hopes", without many logical explanations even in the Dragon Ball universe. But well, even the original series did a few crap or weird stuff like that before. And I'm not counting GT or the old movies on that.

Things aren't that simple. So they can just appear with a third Goku son, that never appeared in Dragon Ball because he was training in another planet or that Bulma always had a sist-oh wait...It had already happened. Don't you see how poor is it? Even with the explanation, it's still really dumb and cheap.

Oh, don't get me wrong, this scene of the instant transmission was great too, because it was pretty fast, and it was coherent.

And of course I won't tell you every single error. It's almost 100 episodes so far.
But right now I remember these ones: The plot armor that Trunks and Mai got, Krillin and Goku getting hurt by a shot, Piccolo eating, Gohan telling Goku that he will become a father, but Goku already knew it, the paradox in Black arc.

[AnimeMaakuo]

Well, Dragon Ball already have a universe and a logic inside it. Even if that logic isn't great, there are possible explanations for things like Trunks learning the Mafuba so fast as he did. Foreshadowing is not always necessary.

Also, can you list all or most of those episodical incoherences or big bullshits? Cause I don't remember of them being in every episode, really.

And, the "how to make a fanservice stuff" it seems to me more a personal thing than a problem. I really liked when, as the example I used before, Goku used the instant transmission Kamehameha on Toppo. It was obvious, but didn't affected the story, or the storytelling, or anything like it. It was just a reference that you can ignore or not.
Being honest, the only one that I think it passed the limit was that Genki-dama Sword Trunks used to defeat Merged Zamasu. That was purely based in the "power of friendship and humanbeing hopes", without many logical explanations even in the Dragon Ball universe. But well, even the original series did a few crap or weird stuff like that before. And I'm not counting GT or the old movies on that.

Things aren't that simple. So they can just appear with a third Goku son, that never appeared in Dragon Ball because he was training in another planet or that Bulma always had a sist-oh wait...It had already happened. Don't you see how poor is it? Even with the explanation, it's still really dumb and cheap.

Oh, don't get me wrong, this scene of the instant transmission was great too, because it was pretty fast, and it was coherent.

And of course I won't tell you every single error. It's almost 100 episodes so far.
But right now I remember these ones: The plot armor that Trunks and Mai got, Krillin and Goku getting hurt by a shot, Piccolo eating, Gohan telling Goku that he will become a father, but Goku already knew it, the paradox in Black arc.

The cheesy animation in DB Super looks like something you'd see on the Disney channel for toddlers. You can't take it seriously Now they've made Goku team up with Freeza

DBGT is way better.