Why Toriyama thought Gohan wouldn't make a good main character

[Deathbringer]

So here are my thoughts on why Toriyama thought Gohan wasn't suited to the role of main character for the series, I'll start with the most obvious thing about him:

He doesn't have a reason to fight, (I'm not talking about right now in the story, I'm talking about back at the beginning of the Boo saga when Toriyama considered making him the new main character to take over from Goku) I say this because it's actually a very important part of most of the main characters in Shonen action series, they all have something they want to achieve and fight for, meanwhile Gohan is just a normal teenager who also happens to be the strongest in the universe, his main aspirations are to become a great scholar but that's not gonna cut it in a series like Dragon Ball. Look at Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach, he was also a normal teenager in the role of a main character in a shonen action series but that didn't work for him as a character outside of the occasional line that he's fighting to protect his friends and family and as the series got worse it also became clear how much of a weak main character Ichigo was, the same would have probably happened to Gohan eventually if the series had gone on past the Boo saga with him as the main character.

This brings me on to my next point of why Goku was revived to take back his role as the main character, obviously we'll never know exactly what Toriyama was thinking at the time but what we do know is that he was probably trying to think of ways he could end the manga (hence why the last chapter has him saying "I think they'll finally let me stop writing now") so I think putting Gohan as the new main character might have been his way of saying that there was gonna be one arc of Gohan in the main role and then he could finally end the series, only for him to realise that the series was probably going to go on for longer than he thought so he brought back Goku to make it easier to write because Goku is the sort of person who would do crazy things like go out there and challenge people whereas Gohan will only ever defend his home from threats when they arise and try to live a normal life.

Alternatively, Toriyama may have just realised that when he wrote Goku at the beginning he intended for him to be the main character but when he wrote Gohan in the Saiyan saga he intended him to be a side character for the time being at least which means that Gohan just isn't main character material because he wasn't created with that in mind. Meanwhile Goku is a perfect fit for the sort of series that Toriyama wanted to write and as I mentioned earlier Goku is the one who goes out there to challenge the gods but Gohan is a stay-at-home scholar and family man who will still stand up and fight when he needs to.

There's also the small aside that Goku is more iconic and famous but that applies more to the modern material like Super than it does to the early Boo saga stuff (even though Goku was also popular then)

[fadeddreams5]

He didn't want Gohan to be the main character because he didn't feel like writing a story around him or developing him as a character. The man preferred to write a story with Goku in the spotlight. It's plain and simple. Gohan isn't a real person. Toriyama is the one who went the direction of making him some nerd who stopped training. He didn't need to go that route, but he did and he got bored of it, as have the audience. Gohan wouldn't make a good main character because Toriyama and the rest of the creators don't WANT him to be one, not because he wouldn't actually make one. That falls in the hands of the writing.

[Majin Jator]

Gohan not liking to fight wasn't a big problem. He's always going to step forward is the world is at danger or someone ask for his help. The problem is that he's not willing to put everything at risk for a good fight. I can't imagine teen Gohan letting the androids to be created just for his amusement.
Toriyama's work is easier if he has someone like Goku as the protagnist.

[NitroEX]

He doesn't have a reason to fight, (I'm not talking about right now in the story, I'm talking about back at the beginning of the Boo saga

Which is quite sad considering how easy of a fix this could have been. Toriyama spent the beginning of the Buu arc introducing Videl who could have been an important character with a pivotal role in the series. Instead she gets beaten up by Spopovich and from then on sits on the shelf pointlessly. If he had continued to give her an active role in the Buu arc and put her in harms way, she could have been Gohan's motivation. Keeping Videl alive or, in the event that she gets killed, avenging her death would have been perfect.

I still believe this is one of Toriyama's biggest fuck ups as a storyteller.

[Deathbringer]

He doesn't have a reason to fight, (I'm not talking about right now in the story, I'm talking about back at the beginning of the Boo saga

Which is quite sad considering how easy of a fix this could have been. Toriyama spent the beginning of the Buu arc introducing Videl who could have been an important character with a pivotal role in the series. Instead she gets beaten up by Spopovich and from then on sits on the shelf pointlessly. If he had continued to give her an active role in the Buu arc and put her in harms way, she could have been Gohan's motivation. Keeping Videl alive or, in the event that she gets killed, avenging her death would have been perfect.

That still wouldn't be the best way to utilise her, that would just be making her some damsel in distress and it would still put Gohan into the same problem that plagued Ichigo Kurosaki of not actually having an underlying motivation to fight other than there being evil things targeting those close to him (I'm not saying this is a bad idea for a character but in a shonen action series like Dragon Ball it's one of the main parts of the series, in fact I should rename this thread to "Why Toriyama Thought Gohan Wouldn't Make A Good Dragon Ball Main Character")

Toriyama is the one who went the direction of making him some nerd who stopped training. He didn't need to go that route, but he did and he got bored of it, as have the audience. Gohan wouldn't make a good main character because Toriyama and the rest of the creators don't WANT him to be one, not because he wouldn't actually make one. That falls in the hands of the writing.

Gohan was always portrayed as a gentle nerd who didn't have much of a will to fight unless he was pushed into it, even though he gets much more brave like when he went to Namek it still didn't change who he was in his normal life. I know he's not a real person and Toriyama could have just changed his character but then there would be no point to having him be the main character if he was going to be immediately changed into Goku-lite and yes Toriyama's comment of "I felt that he was ultimately not suited to the part" is sort of vague but I think it still rings true that Gohan, as he had been portrayed up to that point, would not have been able to lead the series. (but he would have still been a great side character to have and I still think his high school/Great Saiyaman brief stint as the main character is still fun)

[ABED]

Given Dragon Ball's whimsical nature, Goku's a better fit as the protagonist than Gohan who tends to be much more earnest. He tried giving him the Great Saiyaman thing, but that's not that interesting in the long run.

[NitroEX]

That still wouldn't be the best way to utilise her, that would just be making her some damsel in distress and it would still put Gohan into the same problem that plagued Ichigo Kurosaki of not actually having an underlying motivation to fight other than there being evil things targeting those close to him (I'm not saying this is a bad idea for a character but in a shonen action series like Dragon Ball it's one of the main parts of the series, in fact I should rename this thread to "Why Toriyama Thought Gohan Wouldn't Make A Good Dragon Ball Main Character")

I haven't seen Bleach but I sort of see what you're getting at, however I can't say I agree with you. The way I see it, Videl being in harms way would have actually felt natural to the story at that point given how she had been portrayed earlier as a very headstrong and curious girl. I don't really see why having a female character in a dangerous spot is automatically a bad thing either, I agree that it shouldn't be used all the time but this is a series where male characters are constantly put in danger to motivate others (Krillin for example), so why not use Videl in a similar fashion? If it feels natural and plausible to the story then I see no issue with it.

Toriyama does give us a plausible reason for her not being able to keep following Gohan but there's a number of ways that plot point could have been altered either to let her tag along (perhaps with the aid of Trunks and Goten or by herself in secret) or she could have been targeted by Babidi later on for example. I could picture a manipulative character like that using his magic to target someone close to Gohan if Toriyama actually wanted to go down that route but I digress... The point is I think her being involved in some way would have been better than what we got. As it stands she had very little impact on the Buu arc and was ultimately killed off by Super Buu off screen anyway which didn't even garner much of an emotional response. Something like that should imo be dwelled on to maximize its emotional impact on both us as a viewer and Gohan. It's in moments like that that you connect with a story protagonist and empathize with them. That was an element that was sorely lacking in Gohan's development after the Cell Games.

When it comes to underlying motivation for fighting I'm not convinced that that's always required for a Dragonball protagonist. Protecting the weak has consistently been Gohan's motivation and that's pretty common among hero types in other stories. I suppose Goku could provide motivation for him to keep fighting but it's not something I think Gohan would really need, especially if the story was going to end at the Buu arc anyway as originally intended.

Gohan was always portrayed as a gentle nerd who didn't have much of a will to fight unless he was pushed into it, even though he gets much more brave like when he went to Namek it still didn't change who he was in his normal life. I know he's not a real person and Toriyama could have just changed his character but then there would be no point to having him be the main character if he was going to be immediately changed into Goku-lite and yes Toriyama's comment of "I felt that he was ultimately not suited to the part" is sort of vague but I think it still rings true that Gohan, as he had been portrayed up to that point, would not have been able to lead the series. (but he would have still been a great side character to have and I still think his high school/Great Saiyaman brief stint as the main character is still fun)

I don't think being a "Goku-lite" should be a prerequisite for being a main character in a Dragonball story. In fact I think Gohan outgrowing the desire to be like Goku would have been more of a fitting end to his character at the end of the manga. Toriyama making Gohan wear a Goku outfit in the Buu arc was imo actually quite a regressive move on Toriyama's part because it cemented Gohan as forever in the shadow of his father rather than being his own man.

[ABED]

Him wearing his father's gi was simply about showing respect to his father. He was still his own man.

When it comes to underlying motivation for fighting I'm not convinced that that's always required for a Dragonball protagonist. Protecting the weak has consistently been Gohan's motivation and that's pretty common among hero types in other stories.

Not for A protagonist, but THE central protagonist, I think it's important as it allows them to stand out. As you say, protecting the weak is a common trait for heroes, which is the issue. Goku's desire to grow stronger is unique.

[DBZAOTA482]

Because he's lazy... he didn't wanna put the effort into writing a hero who reluctantly fights.

[dragonballhero]

He doesn't have a reason to fight, (I'm not talking about right now in the story, I'm talking about back at the beginning of the Boo saga

Which is quite sad considering how easy of a fix this could have been. Toriyama spent the beginning of the Buu arc introducing Videl who could have been an important character with a pivotal role in the series. Instead she gets beaten up by Spopovich and from then on sits on the shelf pointlessly. If he had continued to give her an active role in the Buu arc and put her in harms way, she could have been Gohan's motivation. Keeping Videl alive or, in the event that she gets killed, avenging her death would have been perfect.

I still believe this is one of Toriyama's biggest fuck ups as a storyteller.

Honestly, I also hate how Videl was handled in the Majin Buu arc, and sadly, I think it's because of how she was handled that I never held that much investment in her to begin with. She really did seem like she'd be WAY more invested in the events of the Majin Buu arc, but in the end, all she did was hide out on Kami's Lookout alongside the rest of the Dragon Team's family and friends. She could have gone with Gohan and the others to Babidi's ship, at least just to see what they REALLY deal with when the forces of evil intend to invade Earth, and Gohan could have avenged her for Spopovitch's beat-down on her. Speaking of which, has Videl EVER seen Gohan fight seriously? Ever since they got together, I'm pretty sure she's always witnessed him getting curb-stomp for whatever reason.

Honestly, it sometimes feels like she was sort of shoehorned into the series' story for the sole purpose of giving Gohan SOME sort of love interest before the series ended.

[ABED]

Because he's lazy... he didn't wanna put the effort into writing a hero who reluctantly fights.

Are we really lacking for those sorts of characters.

She could have gone with Gohan and the others to Babidi's ship, at least just to see what they REALLY deal with when the forces of evil intend to invade Earth,

She wouldn't have been wasted if she just went to see Gohan fight? By staying back it shows she has some sense.

[sintzu]

It's probably due to him not planning ahead and I think if he did then not only would Gohan not have killed Cell but I also think Goku wouldn't have died.

[NitroEX]

Not for A protagonist, but THE central protagonist, I think it's important as it allows them to stand out. As you say, protecting the weak is a common trait for heroes, which is the issue. Goku's desire to grow stronger is unique.

I suppose so. But I think a large part of Gohan's appeal was that he was driven more by emotions which gave him the potential to be a more relatable character than Goku who's generally more stoic in comparison, aside from when he's being dumb and goofy. It's part of the reason Vegeta has such a big following, because we can all relate to NOT being the best like Goku often is. That being said, Goku is a great character to root for and I think the majority of the child demographic that the show & manga aim for are likely drawn to him for this reason. Maybe that's ultimately what Toriyama was driven by when he decided not to commit to Gohan in the end.

Him wearing his father's gi was simply about showing respect to his father. He was still his own man.

I get that he was showing respect but I just think that in hindsight if Toriyama's goal was to have Gohan transitioning from boy to man over the course of that arc (which seems to be the case when comparing his stern demeanor post mystic versus his silly behaviour in the high school portion) then it might have been a better idea not to wear the Goku outfit. Even though it looks cool on him it kinda reminds me that he never really got over that hero worship phase of his youth. I think that works best when he's still a kid (movie 9's outfit & his Piccolo gear being great examples) but maybe not so much when he's about to enter a climactic battle as a (near) adult fighter in which he should be setting himself apart from the others and cementing his own unique legacy. It also doesn't help that he wasn't given any signature techniques of his own but that's a whole other issue.

I do make an exception when it comes to Future Gohan but only because in that special the outfit actually means something to the story. Everything about that version of Gohan is tragic including his outfit, it's a constant reminder of what is no longer there and I think it fits the tone perfectly. It also has some unique details of it's own too which I like, it's not just a straight copy & paste job.

Anyway, even though I seem to be making a big deal of this it's actually just more of a minor nitpick for me since the outfit is largely superficial to that fight.

[ABED]

More relatable doesn't make him better suited for the role of the main hero. And stoic is not an adjective I would use to describe Goku. He's excited by battle and enjoys his life. He's fun loving and one of the appeals of his character. Each character has their own appeal and the series had no problem achieving popularity with Goku at the front. Gohan has a place, but I keep coming back to series being a reflection of their main character. Goku is a better fit in the top spot. Relatability is a fine trait in a character, but it's one of many.

[Totamo]

because it would have been a totally different series if Gohan was the main character.

a different series that someone like toriyama who just wants to entertain people would have had no fun writing. the buu saga is often seen as a parody of his work and himself.

[Lord Beerus]

At the end of the day, part of what kept Toriyama going with the plot was Goku's unconditional desire to keep on training, exploring new places and want to get stronger at every turn. Gohan ultimately doesn't have those characteristics. Well, he had one of those characters in wanting to get stronger, which was dropped the second thing on Earth became peaceful. But I digress, having a battle built around a character who doesn't even like fighting to begin with is huge risk, becuase Toriyama's writing style doesn't really work well outside the confines of poop jokes and characters beating each other to death for shallow reasons. So unless Toriyama wanted to plan on making a slice-of-life/battle manga hybrid kind of story, much like JJBA Part 4: Diamond Is Unbreakable, then Gohan wouldn't have worked as a main character. I mean, in Toriyama's own word Gohan's character just didn't fit the mould for the kind of story he wanted to tell.

[ABED]

What shallow reasons?

[Lord Beerus]

What shallow reasons?

Just because they want a challenge, or to fight a specific opponent again for shits and giggles, or for some petty reason based on a incident that happened many years. Seriously, the second half of the plot would be radically different, or in some areas would not even happen, if the cast weren't selfish battle junkies.

[ABED]

On the surface that would seem shallow, but it's all about how its executed and Toriyama successfully created characters that make you believe that being the best is as important to them as breathing.

What incident are you speaking of?

[Lord Beerus]

On the surface that would seem shallow, but it's all about how its executed and Toriyama successfully created characters that make you believe that being the best is as important to them as breathing.

What incident are you speaking of?

Goku sparing Vegeta's life so that he could fight him again.