Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:17 pm

GamerSkull wrote:I have the Funimation Blu-rays for the Z portion of Dragon Ball and the japanese sound quality isn't too bad.

However, it's a damn shame that Toei seems to have lost the original air quality ones.
It doesn't sound too bad? I listened to it and it sounded atrociously bad to me. Give it a try yourself and you'll be surprised.

Toei should have never got rid of it because now we'll never get a complete Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection without relying on fans for it, and for DB-DBZ BA audio too.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by GamerSkull » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:24 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:I have the Funimation Blu-rays for the Z portion of Dragon Ball and the japanese sound quality isn't too bad.

However, it's a damn shame that Toei seems to have lost the original air quality ones.
It doesn't sound too bad? I listened to it and it sounded atrociously bad to me. Give it a try yourself and you'll be surprised.

Toei should have never got rid of it because now we'll never get a complete Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection without relying on fans for it, and for DB-DBZ BA audio too.
I have been watching the japanese version on my blu-rays. Sure, they could be much better but they don't sound too terrible to me. (However, I will admit that it's still a problem).

But you're right... we'll never have the best audio for it now.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:08 pm

dougo13 wrote:Weren't they broadcast in stereo after the initial few were run in mono? I assume they have been capped in reruns by Japanese fans? But I guess access is limited...
I believe episodes 1-4 were mono. Everything from 5 onwards was stereo. All 64 were kept in the same lossless PCM format on the D2 tapes the show was output to for the original airings, though. So, all 64 should sound fabulous; just the first 4 won't have stereo panning and such. Not a big issue, though. Just cool that it goes stereo from episode 5. :)
SuperCyan2 wrote:It's relatively easy to get GT BA audio and higher quality video episodes than the Dragon Box from what I've seen. However, that may be upscales though they look better to me than the Dragon Box GT.
The GT "Broadcast audio" comes from recent Japanese TV airings. Since Toei gave GT out initially in the form of D2 tapes with the master audio, the TV stations ended up hanging onto the D2 tapes for a while. When the Dragon Box masters were delivered to them for airing, they noticed how crap the audio was, and just swapped the D2 audio in.
So, Japanese TV airings use the Dragon Box video, but the proper, high-quality audio.
As for the video, it's the same as the Dragon Box, just upscaled. A nice upscale of the Dragon Boxes would probably net you better results.
SuperCyan2 wrote:A compressed version of DBZ BA is also out there and gives a taste of what BA audio is like. When I played the Muffled audio vs the BA audio I was like.. damn, what a difference! Even the compressed BA compared to the Muffled doesn't sound anywhere near as bad.
You've phrased this a little awkwardly, but I think I know what you mean; the compressed broadcast audio is better than the muffled optical audio.
And yeah, that's definitely true. To be honest, even cleaned-up fansub audio would sound better than the broadcast audio(Though, depending on the quality, fansub audio can actually be made to sound surprisingly good, actually... :lol:). The compressed audio comes largely from inferior sources to what was given to Chris Sabat, which is actually missing most of episode 218, and of course, it was all compressed at a very low bitrate. But yes, the compressed audio should give you a taste of what's to come.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Damned » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:44 am

The Level sets getting cancelled might have been a blessing in disguise. Now that Funimation has the broadcast audio for Z (And the first 7 episodes of Original Dragon Ball I think.) they should have no problem re-inserting the next episode previews. So, not only could we get a Level set remaster w/ NEPs included this time, but also with better quality audio as well.

Now if only Derek could get his hands on the remaining Original Dragon Ball episodes' broadcast audio...

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:23 am

Damned wrote:The Level sets getting cancelled might have been a blessing in disguise. Now that Funimation has the broadcast audio for Z (And the first 7 episodes of Original Dragon Ball I think.) they should have no problem re-inserting the next episode previews. So, not only could we get a Level set remaster w/ NEPs included this time, but also with better quality audio as well.

Now if only Derek could get his hands on the remaining Original Dragon Ball episodes' broadcast audio...
Since Toei refused it there's not much of a chance that they'd give Funi the A-OK to release it either.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:52 am

Damned wrote:The Level sets getting cancelled might have been a blessing in disguise. Now that Funimation has the broadcast audio for Z (And the first 7 episodes of Original Dragon Ball I think.) they should have no problem re-inserting the next episode previews. So, not only could we get a Level set remaster w/ NEPs included this time, but also with better quality audio as well.

Now if only Derek could get his hands on the remaining Original Dragon Ball episodes' broadcast audio...
don't forget that:
- Toei decline the audios
- Funi cancel level set because it was too expensive so doing the same remastering and with audios is just more expensive than that so this means make higher price for episodes and they already tried it with levels sets and they were forced to cancel them
- season sets sold well why the hell should they do better things? for fans? it's a company not a fansub team, they only make things to make money
- most of the people that paid for the season sets are happy with a 16/9 image to fit TV and no grain on them, you just have to think of all those people trying to use DNR on their encode to remove grain
- broadcast audios aren't complete (miss 218 10mn, and db 8-152) and they have buzz caused to the way it was recorded, remastering this kind of audios is costly

if you keep thinking that it will be done then you'll wait forever for nothing, Toei probably did kai cause it was too expensive remastering 291 episodes in HD (as in 2008 they also remaster hokuto no ken in HD) and for dbz Toei provide Funi season sets master for HD airing so it means Toei are ok with this footage else they shouldn't have keep them

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:48 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Toei decline the audios
Because they didn't care.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Funi cancel level set because it was too expensive so doing the same remastering and with audios is just more expensive than that so this means make higher price for episodes and they already tried it with levels sets and they were forced to cancel them
Incorrect. Funi cancelled the Levels because they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost. Remastering Dragon Ball from film is expensive and time-consuming because of how much work you have to put in; tape marks have to be removed from the start and end of every single shot, dirt, dust, and scratches have to be filtered, then checked, then any remaining stuff painted out.
The audio would be much cheaper to do(More on this a little below).
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- season sets sold well why the hell should they do better things? for fans? it's a company not a fansub team, they only make things to make money
- most of the people that paid for the season sets are happy with a 16/9 image to fit TV and no grain on them, you just have to think of all those people trying to use DNR on their encode to remove grain
Season sets sell well because they're cheap, and they're the only current, complete release. Casual fans don't know what the show is supposed to look like, and don't care as long as it's that cheap. They just want their Faulconer DBZ from the '90s/'00s for cheap.

(Also, DNR isn't inherently evil. Even the precious Dragon Boxes and Level sets had DNR on them. The point is that DNR looks crap on already-compressed commercial DVD releases, and for those working on putting together release masters, the right balance has to be found so it pulls the grain back to an acceptable level, but doesn't destroy the image. The Dragon Boxes and Levels found that balance. Some guy on the internet encoding DVDs with excessive DNR for a pirate release doesn't represent the desires of the Dragon Ball fandom)
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- broadcast audios aren't complete (miss 218 10mn, and db 8-152) and they have buzz caused to the way it was recorded, remastering this kind of audios is costly
Pulling the buzzing and noise back to an acceptable level, and doing a little EQing or something would almost certainly be at least the same level of cost and difficulty as the mastering they did on the season BD optical audio.
Anyway, you say it's not complete... For Z, the one Funimation care about the most, the one they're most likely to care about enough for a re-release in the futurer, and the one most fans will be clamouring for, 10 minutes is missing from one episode, and that's only in the current sources. Another source may turn up any time.
And for the missing DB episodes, the hunt is still on for those.

Spreading doubt does nothing, it just sours the buzz of everyone who's worked so hard on this, and effectively spits in their faces; you're practically saying "Hey, you guys who got the broadcast audio; you did it wrong."
Be nice, man. Being sour and bitter about things people work hard on just ticks them off.
You probably don't mean it like that, but remember how long this took to happen, and imagine how hard it was for the people working on this to get it all together and to Sabat and Padula.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:if you keep thinking that it will be done then you'll wait forever for nothing, Toei probably did kai cause it was too expensive remastering 291 episodes in HD (as in 2008 they also remaster hokuto no ken in HD) and for dbz Toei provide Funi season sets master for HD airing so it means Toei are ok with this footage else they shouldn't have keep them
Toei do whatever they think will make money. They didn't do Kai because remastering 291 episodes of DBZ were expensive, they did it because they could put it together reasonably cheaply, and the result would be effectively a new show they could air on TV, get dubbing companies to license, and potentially a new line of merchandise. They made a ton of money off of Kai in the end, largely because of the dubbing companies.

The Funi HD masters are a HD master, and it makes money to give TV stations who deseparately ask for it a HD master, regardless of its actual quality.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:21 pm

broadcast audios have buzz not because of the ones that recorded them but cause it's tv recording from old time i never meant to insult the recorder

even if i am wrong on some point it is allways the same for what i wanted to say.

Like you said funi cancel the level sets cause it didn't sold well to cover the remastering cost so if you added the audio remastering to that it's even less possible. It failed one time i don't see any companies try again after a fail without anything that can change the things.

Today broadcast audios are already leaked , more and more people have them and are happy with the low compression version, it will kill the market .

About the dragon ball audios hunt it's the same. if the original owner of all those audios wanted them publicly he would have done it before himself (or themselves if there is lot)
now that the z leaked this or those people won't be trick two times

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:11 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:broadcast audios have buzz not because of the ones that recorded them but cause it's tv recording from old time i never meant to insult the recorder

even if i am wrong on some point it is allways the same for what i wanted to say.
It's not the people who recorded it that you're insulting, you're insulting the people who worked for the past >5 years to track down the recordings and actually get them to Sabat. And after Kei suddenly disappeared, it was not easy. A ton of work was put into gathering this audio from the people Kei had entrusted it to before he vanished, purely for the purposes of getting this stuff to Chris Sabat. I would know, I was one of the people who was talking to people and sending the stuff along to go to Sabat.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:Like you said funi cancel the level sets cause it didn't sold well to cover the remastering cost so if you added the audio remastering to that it's even less possible. It failed one time i don't see any companies try again after a fail without anything that can change the things.
Three words: Season optical audio. Funimation put a lot of work into making that sound good, so what makes you think they can't do that again with better audio in the first place to work off of?
HakkaiBills93 wrote:Today broadcast audios are already leaked , more and more people have them and are happy with the low compression version, it will kill the market.
The people who will pirate the audio and then refuse to buy the next release are the same people who wouldn't have bought the release in the first place.
In any case, the leaked audio is pretty poor compared to the real thing. As I say, it's not just the compression, a ton of it uses inferior sources, and it's missing pieces. For example, the version of episode #218 that Chris Sabat has is missing 10 minutes. Aside from that, no audio across Z is missing, not one single second. The leaked audio is missing 18 minutes from episode 218, then missing about half of, I believe, episodes 233, 250, and 267. As implied by my previous statement, Sabat's copies of episodes 233, 250, and 267 are complete, and #218 contains those 8 minutes the leak is missing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of why Sabat's version is infinitely superior to the leak.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:About the dragon ball audios hunt it's the same. if the original owner of all those audios wanted them publicly he would have done it before himself (or themselves if there is lot)
now that the z leaked this or those people won't be trick two times
Hoo boy, you've opened up quite the can of worms here, buddy.

First off, I have to set the stage with some context here; the guy who originally gathered the audio on the tapes they were recorded on was Kei. He gave rips of that audio to certain people for some reason, but didn't get around to sending it to Chris Sabat. The reason for this seems to be that some of the people he'd entrusted with the audio leaked it to some people(Enigmo, for example), and various people(Enigmo, for example) began to bully him until he retreated from the scene.

Second, when this all started, no one wanted the audio to leak. Everyone with audio either wanted to just tease people with it to make themselves seem cool, or they wanted to hang onto it for themselves for one reason or another.

Third, the reason the leak happened was because one of the people Kei gave the audio to gave it to someone who decided to put it online, synced up to Dragon Box video. The audio given to them was the sort of "Basic collection", as I refer to it. All 291 episodes of Z as FLACs recorded off of Tokai TV in the '80s/'90s. Problem is, about 4 episodes are digitally corrupted, and thus missing a ton, and one of those is #218, which was already missing 10 minutes. And then a ton of episodes in the middle are of degraded quality for reasons that are hard to precisely determine. None of these problems are present on Sabat's audio, though I believe he does have a copy of the degraded and incomplete files in addition to the proper ones, in case there's any use in them. And that's just the Tokai TV FLAC audio; many episodes have better sources that Sabat now has.

Fourth, though I'm not the one currently negotiating with the people who have the DB audio, those doing the negotiating are people I trust. As I said before, I've been working on the broadcast audio situation for a while now, so believe me when I say: Just wait and see. It might not pan out, but 90% of the efforts to get the audio haven't panned out, and yet almost all of the audio is now in Sabat's hands. Failure is not something that will hinder us.
Here's the thing: I've had to deal with some real scum in my efforts to assist in bringing the audio together. I know the other people who helped to bring the audio together for Sabat, and they were dragged through the mud just as much as I was, often more. So, I don't appreciate some guy online who clearly doesn't know the whole situation presuming to tell me that the efforts over the past 5 years weren't enough, and that it was all for nothing, when all you have to base any of this on is heresay and guesswork.
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Damned » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:39 am

Robo, if you don't mind, I have a lot of general questions about the broadcast audio...

What about GT? I know that Toei used D2 tapes for it, which do have better quality audio than the optical track on 16mm film, but would it be the same quality as the Cinetapes were? Are these groups of people recording the re-runs of GT and getting that over to Sabat as well, or is he simply attempting to get the D2 tapes themselves? Am I correct in that Sabat currently has Original Dragon Ball episodes 1-7?

Also, why is the optical track low fidelity in the first place on a technical level? I Imagine that it simply has to do with film stock not being meant to store audio, but was wondering if there was another factor at play.

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:57 am

Robo4900 wrote:
HakkaiBills93 wrote:broadcast audios have buzz not because of the ones that recorded them but cause it's tv recording from old time i never meant to insult the recorder

even if i am wrong on some point it is allways the same for what i wanted to say.
It's not the people who recorded it that you're insulting, you're insulting the people who worked for the past >5 years to track down the recordings and actually get them to Sabat. And after Kei suddenly disappeared, it was not easy. A ton of work was put into gathering this audio from the people Kei had entrusted it to before he vanished, purely for the purposes of getting this stuff to Chris Sabat. I would know, I was one of the people who was talking to people and sending the stuff along to go to Sabat.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:Like you said funi cancel the level sets cause it didn't sold well to cover the remastering cost so if you added the audio remastering to that it's even less possible. It failed one time i don't see any companies try again after a fail without anything that can change the things.
Three words: Season optical audio. Funimation put a lot of work into making that sound good, so what makes you think they can't do that again with better audio in the first place to work off of?
HakkaiBills93 wrote:Today broadcast audios are already leaked , more and more people have them and are happy with the low compression version, it will kill the market.
The people who will pirate the audio and then refuse to buy the next release are the same people who wouldn't have bought the release in the first place.
In any case, the leaked audio is pretty poor compared to the real thing. As I say, it's not just the compression, a ton of it uses inferior sources, and it's missing pieces. For example, the version of episode #218 that Chris Sabat has is missing 10 minutes. Aside from that, no audio across Z is missing, not one single second. The leaked audio is missing 18 minutes from episode 218, then missing about half of, I believe, episodes 233, 250, and 267. As implied by my previous statement, Sabat's copies of episodes 233, 250, and 267 are complete, and #218 contains those 8 minutes the leak is missing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of why Sabat's version is infinitely superior to the leak.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:About the dragon ball audios hunt it's the same. if the original owner of all those audios wanted them publicly he would have done it before himself (or themselves if there is lot)
now that the z leaked this or those people won't be trick two times
Hoo boy, you've opened up quite the can of worms here, buddy.

First off, I have to set the stage with some context here; the guy who originally gathered the audio on the tapes they were recorded on was Kei. He gave rips of that audio to certain people for some reason, but didn't get around to sending it to Chris Sabat. The reason for this seems to be that some of the people he'd entrusted with the audio leaked it to some people(Enigmo, for example), and various people(Enigmo, for example) began to bully him until he retreated from the scene.

Second, when this all started, no one wanted the audio to leak. Everyone with audio either wanted to just tease people with it to make themselves seem cool, or they wanted to hang onto it for themselves for one reason or another.

Third, the reason the leak happened was because one of the people Kei gave the audio to gave it to someone who decided to put it online, synced up to Dragon Box video. The audio given to them was the sort of "Basic collection", as I refer to it. All 291 episodes of Z as FLACs recorded off of Tokai TV in the '80s/'90s. Problem is, about 4 episodes are digitally corrupted, and thus missing a ton, and one of those is #218, which was already missing 10 minutes. And then a ton of episodes in the middle are of degraded quality for reasons that are hard to precisely determine. None of these problems are present on Sabat's audio, though I believe he does have a copy of the degraded and incomplete files in addition to the proper ones, in case there's any use in them. And that's just the Tokai TV FLAC audio; many episodes have better sources that Sabat now has.

Fourth, though I'm not the one currently negotiating with the people who have the DB audio, those doing the negotiating are people I trust. As I said before, I've been working on the broadcast audio situation for a while now, so believe me when I say: Just wait and see. It might not pan out, but 90% of the efforts to get the audio haven't panned out, and yet almost all of the audio is now in Sabat's hands. Failure is not something that will hinder us.
Here's the thing: I've had to deal with some real scum in my efforts to assist in bringing the audio together. I know the other people who helped to bring the audio together for Sabat, and they were dragged through the mud just as much as I was, often more. So, I don't appreciate some guy online who clearly doesn't know the whole situation presuming to tell me that the efforts over the past 5 years weren't enough, and that it was all for nothing, when all you have to base any of this on is heresay and guesswork.
all i will said is it's not the place or time anymore for this kind of things but i know more than you think

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:30 am

Robo4900 wrote:
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Toei decline the audios
Because they didn't care.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Funi cancel level set because it was too expensive so doing the same remastering and with audios is just more expensive than that so this means make higher price for episodes and they already tried it with levels sets and they were forced to cancel them
Incorrect. Funi cancelled the Levels because they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost. Remastering Dragon Ball from film is expensive and time-consuming because of how much work you have to put in; tape marks have to be removed from the start and end of every single shot, dirt, dust, and scratches have to be filtered, then checked, then any remaining stuff painted out.
The audio would be much cheaper to do(More on this a little below).
This bit actually got me thinking; did the Ultimate Uncut, Orange Brick, Levels and Blu-Rays all use the same master? Or did UU and Levels use newer Toei-supplied masters and they proved to be too expensive? (on top of all the other reasons).

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:40 am

KBABZ wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Toei decline the audios
Because they didn't care.
HakkaiBills93 wrote:- Funi cancel level set because it was too expensive so doing the same remastering and with audios is just more expensive than that so this means make higher price for episodes and they already tried it with levels sets and they were forced to cancel them
Incorrect. Funi cancelled the Levels because they didn't sell well enough to justify the cost. Remastering Dragon Ball from film is expensive and time-consuming because of how much work you have to put in; tape marks have to be removed from the start and end of every single shot, dirt, dust, and scratches have to be filtered, then checked, then any remaining stuff painted out.
The audio would be much cheaper to do(More on this a little below).
This bit actually got me thinking; did the Ultimate Uncut, Orange Brick, Levels and Blu-Rays all use the same master? Or did UU and Levels use newer Toei-supplied masters and they proved to be too expensive? (on top of all the other reasons).
if i correctly remember Funi use 35mm films for Dragon Ball Z, Toei don't have them (only for few episodes in Frieza saga that's why only few Dragon Ball Kai episodes from this time have really look like HD masters sharp and beautiful) so i think it's Funi masters (the same film as orange brick)

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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Danfun64 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:21 pm

KBABZ wrote:did the Ultimate Uncut, Orange Brick, Levels and Blu-Rays all use the same master? Or did UU and Levels use newer Toei-supplied masters and they proved to be too expensive? (on top of all the other reasons).
I'm pretty sure the Ultimate Uncut footage used Digibetas, while starting with the Orange Bricks Funi got a set of 16mm film which was re-transfered for the Levels and the Season Blu-Rays (though the Season Blu-Rays probably reused the raw transfer of what became the Level sets for Season 2 and beyond (up to before the Boo saga?), and probably used an uncropped Level set transfer as the basis for the Season 1 Blu-Ray. Point is, it's all based off the same film stock though, even if different transfers were made.)
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:01 pm

KBABZ wrote:This bit actually got me thinking; did the Ultimate Uncut, Orange Brick, Levels and Blu-Rays all use the same master? Or did UU and Levels use newer Toei-supplied masters and they proved to be too expensive? (on top of all the other reasons).
Ultimate Uncut uses the same masters as the oldschool DVD singles, just with better encoding and such.

Starting from the Orange Brick release, Funimation had 16mm film which they'd purchased from Toei. The Orange Bricks was one scan of them, the Levels was another, but for the BD seasons, while they used the same source scan as the Levels, they cropped it and put all the familiar blurring/oversharpening/etc. filters on top of it to auto-filter it for cheaper mastering, and thus a cheaper release(Point of note: Many point out how much cheaper the BD seasons likely were to remaster, but most fail to also note how much cheaper the release is to buy than the Levels were).
Damned wrote:What about GT? I know that Toei used D2 tapes for it, which do have better quality audio than the optical track on 16mm film, but would it be the same quality as the Cinetapes were? Are these groups of people recording the re-runs of GT and getting that over to Sabat as well, or is he simply attempting to get the D2 tapes themselves? Am I correct in that Sabat currently has Original Dragon Ball episodes 1-7?
From what I understand, what most likely happened was the 16mm sep-mags would have been transferred to D2 as a 48KHz* PCM signal. In theory, the sep-mag tapes could possibly have had a better transfer in theory, but it may have degraded over time to the point where a new transfer couldn't yield anything better, and of course, the sep-mags almost certainly don't exist anymore.
People have sent recordings of modern airings of GT to Sabat from a few TV stations as a fallback in case Toei won't send him the untouched D2 master.

And yes, Sabat has Dragon Ball 1-7 already. He also has episode 153.

*48KHz refers to the samplerate, not the frequency spectrum. Frequency spectrum should equal half of the samplerate, so in terms of frequency spectrum, it goes up to 24KHz, which is basically ideal, since human hearing maxes out at about 20KHz.
Damned wrote:Also, why is the optical track low fidelity in the first place on a technical level? I Imagine that it simply has to do with film stock not being meant to store audio, but was wondering if there was another factor at play.
Well, essentially you're right.
Film isn't really capable of containing the level of detail required to store optical audio in the way it does. Due mainly to the low level of detail, but also partially to potential flaws in the printing of the film itself, the difficulty in scanning the optical waveform, and to a much lesser extent typical film things like warping, dirt, damage, scratches, and other such factors that make their way onto film as it ages, the optical audio ends up heavily distorted, and missing most higher frequencies.

(I've had some friends who are experts on this sort of thing check over this explanation, aswell as the bit about the GT sep-mags, so I believe this should all be correct)
HakkaiBills93 wrote:if i correctly remember Funi use 35mm films for Dragon Ball Z, Toei don't have them (only for few episodes in Frieza saga that's why only few Dragon Ball Kai episodes from this time have really look like HD masters sharp and beautiful) so i think it's Funi masters (the same film as orange brick)
For the movies, and only the movies, Funimation use generational 35mm copies of the 35mm masters Toei currently own. Toei has the negatives though, which would be what the Dragon Box movies were scanned from, and would be much higher-quality.
For the Z series, Funimation only has 16mm film for the whole run, which is also the case for about 90% of Toei's material. Funimation's 16mm film material is 3rd or 4th generation prints(Steve Franko said so in the Level remastering bonus feature), while Toei have the original 16mm negatives aswell as first- and probably second-generation prints. As you say, for a few episodes of Dragon Ball Z, Toei also have 35mm film.
At this point, we get into stuff that isn't confirmed by any official sources, so take this with a grain of salt, but I believe that Toei's 35mm of those few Dragon Ball Z episodes is just the negatives of those episodes, with the prints being down-conversions to 16. Funimation's copies were likely struck from second- or third-gen prints, which is why Funimation only have 16mm of those episodes; since only the negatives are 35mm, new prints would have to be struck from the negatives to give anyone else 35mm film, which would likely be seen as an unnecessary expense.
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SuperCyan2
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:37 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:Like you said funi cancel the level sets cause it didn't sold well to cover the remastering cost so if you added the audio remastering to that it's even less possible. It failed one time i don't see any companies try again after a fail without anything that can change the things.
FUNimation's Orange Bricks remasters for Dragon Ball Z have become the standard for every distributor to use in the world so there really is no point for FUNi, TOEI or anyone else to bother making a high-end quality release since they can make just as much if not even more money than spend their time, money, patience and efforts for a niche audience. We were lucky we even got DBZ episodes 01-39 remastered in high definition.

IMO, I don't see TOEI/FUNi putting any effort into such a release like Level 2.0 with JPN BA. If anyone wants that to happen, don't rely on TOEI/FUNi then.
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dougo13
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by dougo13 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:59 pm

OT but what software is used to clean up the audio anyway? Any tutorials?

Danfun64
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:25 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:FUNimation's Orange Bricks remasters for Dragon Ball Z have become the standard for every distributor to use in the world
I thought it was the Season Blu-ray transfer that became the standard. IIRC the only thing resembling an international (non-English) release of the Orange Bricks were the 10 singles of the Latino Spanish dub Funi released.
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SuperCyan2
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:FUNimation's Orange Bricks remasters for Dragon Ball Z have become the standard for every distributor to use in the world
I thought it was the Season Blu-ray transfer that became the standard. IIRC the only thing resembling an international (non-English) release of the Orange Bricks were the 10 singles of the Latino Spanish dub Funi released.
Spain, Australia, UK and Latin America used the Double Features for their releases. It's just a matter of time before these and more countries decide to release DBZ on Blu-ray by using FUNi's Season BDs.

Madman has already released the DBZ Season Blu-rays in Australia.

Image

I'm a bit surprised that Manga UK is taking its time to repackage Madman's DBZ Season Blu-rays for their own market.
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Danfun64
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Re: Better Sound Quality for Original DBZ?

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:01 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:Australia, UK
...don't count, as they're the Funi dub to begin with.
Robo4900 wrote:Mouse is BRILLIANT SCIENTIST dumb.
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Jack is just kinda dumb.

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