Are character deaths really pointless, when they all change the narrative?

[precita]

A lot of people say since they have the Dragonballs, wishes, time travel, etc. character deaths are pointless since we know any main character who dies will be revived.

But is it really pointless? Each time a character has died it directly changed the narrative and had a major point in the story:

- Krillin dies to Tambourine, it sets in motion the King Piccolo arc.

- Goku dies against Radditz, it lets us see the Otherworld for the first time and the intro of King Kai.

- Piccolo and the humans die against the Saiyans, it basically sets in motion the Namek saga.

- Vegeta dies against Freeza, showing some humility the first time

- Freeza kills Krillin, which makes Goku become of a Super Saiyan.

- Trunks dies against Cell, Vegeta does beserk.

- Goku dies when Cell blows himself up, he stays gone for 7 years.

- Vegeta sacrfices himself to stop Buu showing his character growth

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time



So I don't get why people say things like, "Oh characters die it means nothing" when each time it impacts the series.

[Doctor.]

Some character deaths are pointless. Chaozu's death is pointless in the Saiyan arc considering he never does anything beyond that. Tenshinhan and Yamcha dying could serve as a way to up the tension and showcase how threatening Nappa is and it's Piccolo's death that sets up the next arc. But Chaozu's death serves no purpose, as he was a weakling, so his death wouldn't even make Nappa look good.

It's his best moment, which is sad, but he (and Tenshinhan) should have stayed dead after this point.

[PelicanDynasty]

A lot of people say since they have the Dragonballs, wishes, time travel, etc. character deaths are pointless since we know any main character who dies will be revived.

But is it really pointless? Each time a character has died it directly changed the narrative and had a major point in the story:

- Krillin dies to Tambourine, it sets in motion the King Piccolo arc.

- Goku dies against Radditz, it lets us see the Otherworld for the first time and the intro of King Kai.

- Piccolo and the humans die against the Saiyans, it basically sets in motion the Namek saga.

- Vegeta dies against Freeza, showing some humility the first time

- Freeza kills Krillin, which makes Goku become of a Super Saiyan.

- Trunks dies against Cell, Vegeta does beserk.

- Goku dies when Cell blows himself up, he stays gone for 7 years.

- Vegeta sacrfices himself to stop Buu showing his character growth

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time



So I don't get why people say things like, "Oh characters die it means nothing" when each time it impacts the series.

Well these ones were thought to be permanent at the time, so that's all the weight they need. The others have reasons ranging from decent to good.

[Gog]

Even though, theres an ungodly amount of Freebies for the main cast. Death is still important. As in Krillin may have been exploded by Freeza, and is currently walking about. But he still got exploded, and that shit sticks. Also it was a very important death in the narrative

[OhHiRenan]

Some character deaths are pointless. Chaozu's death is pointless in the Saiyan arc considering he never does anything beyond that. Tenshinhan and Yamcha dying could serve as a way to up the tension and showcase how threatening Nappa is and it's Piccolo's death that sets up the next arc. But Chaozu's death serves no purpose, as he was a weakling, so his death wouldn't even make Nappa look good.

It's his best moment, which is sad, but he (and Tenshinhan) should have stayed dead after this point.

I'd argue that Chaozu's death does have a point, albeit it isn't as impactful as the other deaths in that arc. His death is important as a character moment as it shows he's literally willing to give his life for Tenshinhan knowing full well he can't be revived this time, and it also sets in motion the futility that's present in the Nappa battle until Goku shows up.

I do agree with you that it's not as hard hitting and that maybe he should or could have stayed death, but I think there's genuine weight in his death.

[rereboy]

I don't agree with that criticism. Other shonen series simply have no one actually important die. Dragon Ball does because they can revive. At the end of the day there's little difference. In one we have tension with characters almost dying but not actually dying, and in the other we have tension with characters dying but probably being able to revive. The "loss" of tension is around the same. And both serve the plot/narrative.

[ABED]

Sure they can affect the story, but if there's no permanent consequence to any of it, the impact is far less.

[TheZFighter]

From my memory of watching this series through for the first time, I remember that it was only towards the end of DBZ when I started to find death particularly ineffective, because you just know they're all going to come back.

[Akyon]

Honestly the moments Goku was able to locate New Namek and Dende was able to change the Dragonballs so anyone could be revived an infinite amount of times all tension was gone.

Krillin's first two deaths are big, important and impactful; the first sets the tonal shift for the darker King Piccolo arc, and whilst we've seen Bora die and get revived, we had no personal connection with him. King Piccolo is also hunting down other martial artists which suddenly puts Goku, Yamcha, Master Roshi, Tenshinhan and Chiaoutzu in the firing line too. Krillin's death here establishes "anyone can die" which sets the stakes high.

The second is under the guise that anyone who dies a second time is NOT coming back. That's why the initial SSJ transformation is so great. Goku has just lost one of the most important people in his life forever. We, the audience, think it's officially game over for Krillin, and whilst we may see him hang in the afterworld it's not quite the same thing.

...and then Namekian Dragonballs are revealed to be able to revive anyone who died multiple times. They use it to revive Krillin and Chiaoutzu breaking the original rules, and then vanish seemingly forever. Okay, that was a one time thing, looks like the heroes can't rely on them foreve-oh, Dende is the new guardian of Earth...oh, the Dragonballs can now revive anyone multiple times and as many as needed. Oh.

Oh.

It's at that point, at least for me, that death no longer was any threat at all. Hell, with this knowledge the gang become so over reliant on the Dragonballs, millions of people dying on the planet doesn't matter anymore.

Death becomes such a non-issue by the Buu saga that in the manga we don't even see Super Buu kill the Krillin and the gang on Kami's tower. It happens off panel. Because it doesn't matter. Even if Dende had died with Earth they still had New Namek as a back up who would have been more than happy to help revive their saviours planet and one of their own in the process.

[DBZ Macky]

I feel this is actually one of the plus points of Dragon Ball.
Characters can die and leave an impact on the story, even if they come back later.

Just compare this to other Anime/ Manga. Neji's and Asuma's death were the only major death in Naruto, and maybe a just few more. I can bet that characters like Luffy won't die ever. That really hurts the story, and really makes major fights lose a bit of tension.

[MozillaVulpix]

I agree. Just because a character dying means they're just going to sit out of the narrative for a while out-of-universe-wise, in-universe, it's still often a big deal. There aren't many points where a death accomplishes nothing and no one actually reacts to it with the appropriate amount of emotion. Maybe when everyone dies when Buu blows up the Earth? But at that point things were getting so serious there was basically no time to stop and mourn. Something like, say, Future Trunks dying to Cell was pointless because he got revived a few hours later, but it was basically the only thing that could have caused a turning point for Vegeta's character. Not just getting hurt, but actually dying.

Not to mention, if the story wants to kill off a character permanently, it can still come up with ways to do that. The Namekian Grand Elder, Android 16, Goku at the end of the Cell arc and Vegeta at the start of the Buu arc. At least, it seemed like those two were going to be dead for good and only brought back when Gohan wasn't working as a protagonist. I may be wrong about that.

[ABED]

I feel this is actually one of the plus points of Dragon Ball.
Characters can die and leave an impact on the story, even if they come back later.

Just compare this to other Anime/ Manga. Neji's and Asuma's death were the only major death in Naruto, and maybe a just few more. I can bet that characters like Luffy won't die ever. That really hurts the story, and really makes major fights lose a bit of tension.

And if Goku dies, he comes back, so in effect, it's similar to not dying at all. He's not gone from the story. He's just in a different location.

[rereboy]

I feel this is actually one of the plus points of Dragon Ball.
Characters can die and leave an impact on the story, even if they come back later.

Just compare this to other Anime/ Manga. Neji's and Asuma's death were the only major death in Naruto, and maybe a just few more. I can bet that characters like Luffy won't die ever. That really hurts the story, and really makes major fights lose a bit of tension.

And if Goku dies, he comes back, so in effect, it's similar to not dying at all. He's not gone from the story. He's just in a different location.

And in other shonens he would simply not die. There's not really a significant difference. Things turning out fine is simply an essential characteristic of the genre. Liking the genre implies getting along with its essential characteristics and if that characteristic bothers us that much, our time would be better spent on genres where things aren't "guaranteed" to turn out "fine".

[ABED]

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time

Not really. Planets have been blown up before by far less powerful beings than Buu. It's also far less dire when the entire planet can be revived by the Dragon Balls.

[precita]

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time

Not really. Planets have been blown up before by far less powerful beings than Buu. It's also far less dire when the entire planet can be revived by the Dragon Balls.

Buu was the first time Goku and the others failed at saving the Earth. The entire planet getting destroyed for the first time and Goku having to "retreat" to the Kai planet was a big deal. At the time they didn't know that Kid Buu would follow them there either.

[ABED]

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time

Not really. Planets have been blown up before by far less powerful beings than Buu. It's also far less dire when the entire planet can be revived by the Dragon Balls.

Buu was the first time Goku and the others failed at saving the Earth. The entire planet getting destroyed for the first time and Goku having to "retreat" to the Kai planet was a big deal. At the time they didn't know that Kid Buu would follow them there either.

Yeah, but that possibility was there for years. Kid Buu following them there was their idea.

[Lord Beerus]

Death in Dragon Ball isn't entirely pointless but severely lacks any kind levity when you realise that there is always going to one set of Dragon Ball to bring them back to life. Nowadays, death in Dragon Ball is equivalent of a billionaire spilling his ice cream cone on the floor. It doesn't matter. He has more than enough resources to get another ice cream. In Dragon Ball's case, they have three sets of Dragon Balls, with two of those sets guaranteeing that none of the core cast will stay dead.

[Gog]

- Kid Buu blows up the Earth, making it obvious how dire the heroes situations are at the time

Not really. Planets have been blown up before by far less powerful beings than Buu. It's also far less dire when the entire planet can be revived by the Dragon Balls.

Buu was the first time Goku and the others failed at saving the Earth. The entire planet getting destroyed for the first time and Goku having to "retreat" to the Kai planet was a big deal. At the time they didn't know that Kid Buu would follow them there either.

To be fair, their really wasn't anything worth saving, as Buu before hand wiped everything out. Which is still all Goku's fault for the matter.

[ABED]

Not really. Planets have been blown up before by far less powerful beings than Buu. It's also far less dire when the entire planet can be revived by the Dragon Balls.

Buu was the first time Goku and the others failed at saving the Earth. The entire planet getting destroyed for the first time and Goku having to "retreat" to the Kai planet was a big deal. At the time they didn't know that Kid Buu would follow them there either.

To be fair, their really wasn't anything worth saving, as Buu before hand wiped everything out. Which is still all Goku's fault for the matter.

It's amazing that some people don't fault Vegeta at all.

[Gog]

Buu was the first time Goku and the others failed at saving the Earth. The entire planet getting destroyed for the first time and Goku having to "retreat" to the Kai planet was a big deal. At the time they didn't know that Kid Buu would follow them there either.

To be fair, their really wasn't anything worth saving, as Buu before hand wiped everything out. Which is still all Goku's fault for the matter.

It's amazing that some people don't fault Vegeta at all.

Don't worry I know of the prince of fuck ups mistakes, and the buu saga was defiantly the biggest of them all. But Goku had the chance to end Buu, before things got escalated even further, and guess what, he managed to actually be responsible of killing his entire family