Is there anyone that stopped or decide not to watch Super?

[floofychan333]

I've noticed that kids in Dragon World go through a drastic growth spurt and instantly look like adults by age 16 or 17. Goku looked like he was 8 at age 15.

That's a Saiyan thing and only Goku had that til Super. Gohan aged normally as did Future Trunks who looked his appropriate age when the special happened. Roughly the same age present Trunks is as the moment yet he remains a runt

Kid Trunks is still a midget, yes. I believe Marron is supposed to be 9 or something but she still looks like and is treated like a baby. And the most infamous example of all is Kuririn who, at 16 (the same age as Bulma and Yamcha were when they looked normal) was a fat midget.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm trying to stay into the show but Toei is making that a real challenge.

[precita]

Super ranges from average to fantastic AS LONG AS you skip the movie adaptions. Just watch the Beerus movie and Return of F to keep up to date, skip those episodes. And what's with people skipping the fillers? They're some of the best parts of Super aside from that superhuman water arc, but all the "peacetime" or training ep fillers have been great.

Honestly now that Super has gone on for so long, those 25ish eps of movie adaptions are now a much smaller percentage of the overall series (and if Super continues to go on they'll barely matter)), so they're not a big deal anymore as when they took up literally most or half the series. The first tournament with Champa started out rough but the later fights were good, the Zamasu/Goku Black arc was pretty well done, and the upcoming tournament looks great as long as the characters get good screentime/fights, etc.

Even the animation has improved drastically since the first Goku Black episode aired. There's still the off-model shots here and there obviously, but DBZ was filled with this too. I honestly don't know what more you guys can want, this is everything I could have wanted out of a Dragonball revival. And if they finally cover Uub, Pan and adult Trunks and Goten finally in a future arc, my last complaints will be gone.

[Gog]

I'm trying to stay into the show but Toei is making that a real challenge.

Is it Goku and ChiChi again? Because I'm not sure why people dislike that aspect, as I'd dare say that their relationship is better than it was in Z

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Super ranges from average to fantastic AS LONG AS you skip the movie adaptions. Just watch the Beerus movie and Return of F to keep up to date, skip those episodes. And what's with people skipping the fillers? They're some of the best parts of Super aside from that superhuman water arc, but all the "peacetime" or training ep fillers have been great.

Honestly now that Super has gone on for so long, those 25ish eps of movie adaptions are now a much smaller percentage of the overall series (and if Super continues to go on they'll barely matter)), so they're not a big deal anymore as when they took up literally most or half the series. The first tournament with Champa started out rough but the later fights were good, the Zamasu/Goku Black arc was pretty well done, and the upcoming tournament looks great as long as the characters get good screentime/fights, etc.

Even the animation has improved drastically since the first Goku Black episode aired. There's still the off-model shots here and there obviously, but DBZ was filled with this too. I honestly don't know what more you guys can want, this is everything I could have wanted out of a Dragonball revival. And if they finally cover Uub, Pan and adult Trunks and Goten finally in a future arc, my last complaints will be gone.

A less boring character designer, a continuity editor, a show that doesn't undergo schedule collapse after every big action episode. Stories that are interesting enough to revisit, but without an absolute shit-ton of plot holes. Basically everything that the majority of anime get.

You, and a lot of people talk about the movie retellings as if they're the blemish of the series, but the other two arcs suffer from the same pitfalls. They're littered with superfluous padding with very little substance to the core plot. Toriyama just isn't writing good stories. The visuals, while they have improved, will never be engaging unless we get a total management overhaul, which will almost certainly never happen. It's not even about off-model shots, it's about the models themselves being deeply flawed. Basically, if you watch other well-produced anime along with DBS and use a critical eye, you'll realize that this show leaves so much to be desired.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm trying to stay into the show but Toei is making that a real challenge.

Is it Goku and ChiChi again? Because I'm not sure why people dislike that aspect, as I'd dare say that their relationship is better than it was in Z

No. It's the bullshit power scaling, poor characterization, mediocre-to-bad animation, and blatant pandering.

Also Super implies Goku doesn't even know what kissing is nor has he seen Chi-Chi pregnant while Chi-Chi wants to make him her slave as opposed to Z where Goku has kissed Chi-Chi (non-explicit) and Chi-Chi knew there's no changing Goku.

[precita]

A less boring character designer, a continuity editor, a show that doesn't undergo schedule collapse after every big action episode. Stories that are interesting enough to revisit, but without an absolute shit-ton of plot holes. Basically everything that the majority of anime get..

If you're speaking of character designs themselves, I'm pretty happy with the designs for Champa/Vados, Zamasu, the U6 fighters like Magnetta and Hit, and from what we've seen so far I actually dig the designs of these new Gods coming up. Some I'm not sold on, but for the most part I'm happy.

As for the story editing and change of writing, it's basically the same as most of Dragonball Z is honestly. Some eps are padded a bit too much, while others a tad rushed. Most of the new material "retcons" if you even call them that, are just explaining things the original series glossed over leaving to fan interpetation. Characters being hurt by bullets or when they're unaware doesn't bother me, Vegito defusing, etc. Power level debates is something I never got into as long as it made sense. Plot holes I can't think of any big ones, unless you're just harping on Future Trunks huge boost of power. Many power-ups were equally unexplained back in DBZ and left fans to debate them for years.

And so far we've only had two big arcs since the movie adaptions. The Champa tournament which was just a straight-forward tournament, and the Zamasu arc. Most of the filler inbetween has been quite entertaining. This next arc might make or break Super for some, but so far I hope it will be good.

[Gog]

I'm trying to stay into the show but Toei is making that a real challenge.

Is it Goku and ChiChi again? Because I'm not sure why people dislike that aspect, as I'd dare say that their relationship is better than it was in Z

No. It's the plot-hole galore, non-existent character development, mediocre-to-bad animation, and blatant pandering.

Also Super implies Goku doesn't even know what kissing is nor has he seen Chi-Chi pregnant while Chi-Chi wants to make him her slave as opposed to Z where Goku has kissed Chi-Chi (non-explicit) and Chi-Chi knew there's no changing Goku.

DBZ was plot hole galore, only Piccolo and Vegeta had character development in Z, Beerus has had haracter development in super, the animation has been getting better, don't see how this is a problem, especially considering Z was just as bad.

Toriyama states that Goku has never once kissed ChiChi, and he never saw her pregnet. ChiChi doesn't want to make him her slave, she wants him to actually work, Goku has never once kissed ChiChi in the entirety of Z, he has never once kissed her, I don't know where your getting this from. ChiChi just wants Goku to do some work, she doesn't want him to change.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Piccolo and Vegeta had character development in Z

Well... Piccolo, Vegeta, Kuririn, Bulma, Gohan, 18, Satan, Boo, Dende, etc...

I think you get the idea.

[SaiyanGod117]

Toriyama states that Goku has never once kissed ChiChi, and he never saw her pregnet. ChiChi doesn't want to make him her slave, she wants him to actually work, Goku has never once kissed ChiChi in the entirety of Z, he has never once kissed her, I don't know where your getting this from. ChiChi just wants Goku to do some work, she doesn't want him to change.

When did Toriyama ever state that?

[Gog]

When did Toriyama ever state that?

It was both in the anime, and manga, meaning that Toriyama wrote it in the plot outlines.

[SaiyanGod117]

When did Toriyama ever state that?

It was both in the anime, and manga, meaning that Toriyama wrote it in the plot outlines.

Oh yes I forgot about that garbage retcon and that doesn't mean he never saw her pregnant, he was alive when they had Gohan.

[Gog]

When did Toriyama ever state that?

It was both in the anime, and manga, meaning that Toriyama wrote it in the plot outlines.

Oh yes I forgot about that garbage retcon and that doesn't mean he never saw her pregnant, he was alive when they had Gohan.

How was it a retcon? I'm honestly baffled on how that's a retcon. When was it stated that he never saw her pregnant? When was this ever stated

[SaiyanGod117]

It was both in the anime, and manga, meaning that Toriyama wrote it in the plot outlines.

Oh yes I forgot about that garbage retcon and that doesn't mean he never saw her pregnant, he was alive when they had Gohan.

How was it a retcon? I'm honestly baffled on how that's a retcon. When was it stated that he never saw her pregnant? When was this ever stated

Because they kissed the anime and it's hard to believe a man in his forties has never kissed his wife.

You stated that Toriyama said Goku never saw Chi-Chi pregnant, you typed it above sir.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Because they kissed the anime

Pretty sure they never did. I know that Funimation added a kissing sound effect in one dub scene, but that's it.

[Gog]

Oh yes I forgot about that garbage retcon and that doesn't mean he never saw her pregnant, he was alive when they had Gohan.

How was it a retcon? I'm honestly baffled on how that's a retcon. When was it stated that he never saw her pregnant? When was this ever stated

Because they kissed the anime and it's hard to believe a man in his forties has never kissed his wife.

You stated that Toriyama said Goku never saw Chi-Chi pregnant, you typed it above sir.

Never happened, and it's a dub sound. Also why is it hard to believe that? Perhaps Goku just doesn't know how to kiss, or you know does not give two fucks about kissing? Perhaps ChiChi doesn't do it at all, applying are sense of morality to Goku is a fool's errand as he's just such an alien character.

You stated "and that doesn't mean he never saw her pregnant", he probably did.

[DBZAOTA482]

DBZ was plot hole galore

I doubt this. I've watched and read through the series but yet to find many major plot-holes.

Of course, this was an awkwardly worded complaint on my part.

only Piccolo and Vegeta had character development in Z, Beerus has had haracter development in super

Wrong... Gohan, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, Krillin, #16 and #18, and Future Trunks had development. Even Goku had some development with the whole passing-the-torch thing.

Lack of character development aside... the characterization in general is just not good.

the animation has been getting better, don't see how this is a problem, especially considering Z was just as bad.

Maybe because you don't know shit about animation? DBZ even at it's worst never comes close to the level of badness Super can go, which is just a tier above Musashi GUN-doh.

Toriyama states that Goku has never once kissed ChiChi, and he never saw her pregnet. ChiChi doesn't want to make him her slave, she wants him to actually work, Goku has never once kissed ChiChi in the entirety of Z, he has never once kissed her, I don't know where your getting this from. ChiChi just wants Goku to do some work, she doesn't want him to change.

https://youtu.be/-JNglMWs-18?t=277

I call bullshit on Goku never seeing Chi-Chi pregnant. Unless he was away for 9 months when Gohan was conceived then there's just no way.

She forces him to work for money they don't even need and is quick to whoop his ass if he doesn't do what he's told when all he wants to do is train. She also tried to make him into a "good" grandfather for Pan... which is working a dead-end job at the behest of your nagging bitch of a wife.

[Gog]

I doubt this. I've watched and read through the series but yet to find many major plot-holes.

Of course, this was an awkwardly worded complaint on my part.

Then you just haven't read it critically. The Cell, android and Buu arc, make the plot holes in Dragon Ball Super seem tame in comparison. Especially the Cell arc

Wrong... Gohan, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, Krillin, #16 and #18, and Future Trunks had development. Even Goku had some development with the whole passing-the-torch thing.

Lack of character development aside... the characterization in general is just not good.

Gohan? Oh I just remembered the teen Gohan. Goku passing the torch? That never actually happened, and that never will happen until Uub and Pan come along, and then maybe.

That's an opinion, you literally cannot prove that.

Maybe because you don't know shit about animation? DBZ even at it's worst never comes close to the level of badness Super can go, which is just a tier above Musashi GUN-doh.

And you must not understand jack fucking shit about Dragon Ball Super's animation, as even when the production is shit, it still manages to produce animation as good as it, and even surpassing it's greatest moments. And Z wasn't a very good looking show as well.

https://youtu.be/-JNglMWs-18?t=277

I call bullshit on Goku never seeing Chi-Chi pregnant. Unless he was away for 9 months when Gohan was conceived then there's just no way.

She forces him to work for money they don't even need and is quick to whoop his ass if he doesn't do what he's told when all he wants to do is train. She also tried to make him into a "good" grandfather for Pan... which is working a dead-end job at the behest of your nagging bitch of a wife.

I don't even know that he never did, but this is Goku we're talking about here, so I don't put it past him.

Oh for fucks sake, there relationship in Super is better than what it was in Z, because their relation ship is at least focused on. Also you must mean all the fucking gags, gags, gags, gags because those moments are not meant to be taken seriously Another thing is that ChiChi has shown affection to Goku, when she flew towards him, when he was beaten by Frost, and hugged him. And I cannot forget the moment were Goku absolutely loses, his mother fucking shit at Black when he finds out that he killed ChiChi, and Goten.

You will not find a scene like this in Dragon Ball Z, as their relationship is so bare bones back then.

[Soppa Saia People]

FWIW I think the biggest plot hole in DB (pre Super), wasn't even in Z, it was in OGDB. The whole non sense with the Dragon Balls in the RRA arc.

[DBZAOTA482]

Then you just haven't read it critically. The Cell, android and Buu arc, make the plot holes in Dragon Ball Super seem tame in comparison. Especially the Cell arc

Would you mind providing examples so I can easily tear them apart?

Gohan? Oh I just remembered the teen Gohan. Goku passing the torch? That never actually happened, and that never will happen until Uub and Pan come along, and then maybe.

That's an opinion, you literally cannot prove that.

Goku passed the torch to Gohan then tried it with Goten and Trunks. It failed but it still happened.

Well no shit it's an opinion... an opinion I can back up with the facts.

And you must not understand jack fucking shit about Dragon Ball Super's animation, as even when the production is shit, it still manages to produce animation as good as it, and even surpassing it's greatest moments. And Z wasn't a very good looking show as well.

The rushed production mostly just justifies the quality (or lack thereof) of the animation not highlight it.

I don't even know that he never did, but this is Goku we're talking about here, so I don't put it past him.

Oh for fucks sake, there relationship in Super is better than what it was in Z, because their relation ship is at least focused on. Also you must mean all the fucking gags, gags, gags, gags because those moments are not meant to be taken seriously Another thing is that ChiChi has shown affection to Goku, when she flew towards him, when he was beaten by Frost, and hugged him. And I cannot forget the moment were Goku absolutely loses, his mother fucking shit at Black when he finds out that he killed ChiChi, and Goten.

You will not find a scene like this in Dragon Ball Z, as their relationship is so bare bones back then.

So... Chi-Chi mourning the loss of her husband during the Cell Games, overjoyingly welcoming him back home even after leaving for years on end, Goku actually making an effort to keep her happy and safe (shown after his recovery from the heart virus and after his 24 hours on Earth ran out), and actually making compromises (the 3 year training and after his recovery from the heart virus) never happened even though I can find them even in the manga?

I want to ignore the shitty gags but Toei seems obsessed with them and those moments you mentioned are too far-and-few in between to let me overlook them.