Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Piccolo immediately wrecking his Saibaman and telling Vegeta not to waste time even though the whole reason they're there is to buy time for Goku to arrive.
Maybe at that time Piccolo thought he had a significant ace up his sleeve: the monkey tail grab.
Also, the last time Piccolo saw Yamcha and Tien was at the end of DB, when there wasn't as big a gap in their ability to Goku's/Piccolo's ability as there is in Z. So, maybe he initially overestimated how much Yamcha, Tien and Krillin improved themselves and thought 5-6 of their fighters could take down at least one of the saiyans.
emperior wrote:
Why didn't Goku not transform into a SSJ3 and defeat SSJ2 Majin Vegeta in three seconds?
Goku turning SS 3 would have accelerated Buu's hatching?
Big Green: Do whateveryoulike, Ghos
Broly: haha He calls me a goohst, but IMMMD DA DEVVVVAAALLL! RAHAHAHAHA!
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Trunks: "Dhe computer selffishy intesnafiy dosuementos."
Android 13: Yum Boy
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Vegeta: The Legendary Warrior of SpaZe.
Goku turning SS 3 would have accelerated Buu's hatching?
SSJ3 Goku could have easily knocked out SSJ2 Majin Vegeta with one punch, and Majin Boo doesn't get resurrected.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
But Goku did have rationale for not turning Super Saiyan 3 against Vegeta. It was that he didn't want to anger/sadden Vegeta for still being so behind him.
By your opinion, that might be stupid. But it wasn't a thoughtless thing.
This is further rationalised by the fact that Goku maybe could tell Vegeta hadn't become 100% pure evil and was looking to convince Vegeta to work with him to defeat Buu. SSJ2 Goku + SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku. If Goku did go SSJ3 vs Vegeta, might have tipped Vegeta over the edge.
Why didn't Karin and Kami-sama fight villains if they were so strong?
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.
"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu
But Goku did have rationale for not turning Super Saiyan 3 against Vegeta. It was that he didn't want to anger/sadden Vegeta for still being so behind him.
That doesn't sound like Goku at all.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Why didn't Karin and Kami-sama fight villains if they were so strong?
It's not the job of gods to meddle in the affairs of mortals, unless perhaps the world is in danger. Plus, Kami risking his life in a fight wouldn't be wise, because Dragon Balls and all. Best he can do is step in and train people in those instances, like with Goku and later the Z Warriors.
Why didn't Trunks just blow up 18 with a simple ki blast when Vegeta let Cell absorb her? At that stage he didn't have any sympathy for either of the androids, and it would've been a hell of a lot quicker and safer to do that than fight Vegeta.
Lord Beerus wrote:I think I recall Goku saying that Dr Gero hadn't done anything bad yet, so it wouldn't be fair to kill him over an evil act he had yet to commit. Plus, the Z-Fighters were looking for a challenge. The was the only legitimate excuse given.
They didn't even have to kill Gero. They could've just arrested his wrinkly old ass or destroyed his research, and in doing so would've prevented the androids from being built. There is no logical justification for letting Gero build the androids. It's just Goku and Vegeta being typical Saiyan battle maniacs, and Piccolo and Tenshinhan being dumbasses. As for Cell, when he showed up Piccolo could've always fused with Kami and killed him, or the Saiyans could've just gone to the ROSAT. Cell started off as a weaker threat than the androids, so the Z Warriors still had time to prepare to fight him.
TheGodfather93 wrote:They didn't even have to kill Gero. They could've just arrested his wrinkly old ass or destroyed his research, and in doing so would've prevented the androids from being built. There is no logical justification for letting Gero build the androids. It's just Goku and Vegeta being typical Saiyan battle maniacs, and Piccolo and Tenshinhan being dumbasses. As for Cell, when he showed up Piccolo could've always fused with Kami and killed him, or the Saiyans could've just gone to the ROSAT. Cell started off as a weaker threat than the androids, so the Z Warriors still had time to prepare to fight him.
Interesting that you fail to mention Krillin in this. I don't understand, are you a Krillin fan? Because Kuririn initially agreed with Buruma and said "yeah lets kill him" but then he suddenly switched to "no let's not kill him yet". So I think it can be argued that if Kuririn was a bit more strong in his convictions, as a character in general, then he may have been able to pursuade Goku to say "Krillin is right" and because Goku is the alpha male XD everyone else would follow. So yeah, Krillin's lack of resolve can be seen as the main cause of trouble.
TheGodfather93 wrote:They didn't even have to kill Gero. They could've just arrested his wrinkly old ass or destroyed his research, and in doing so would've prevented the androids from being built. There is no logical justification for letting Gero build the androids. It's just Goku and Vegeta being typical Saiyan battle maniacs, and Piccolo and Tenshinhan being dumbasses. As for Cell, when he showed up Piccolo could've always fused with Kami and killed him, or the Saiyans could've just gone to the ROSAT. Cell started off as a weaker threat than the androids, so the Z Warriors still had time to prepare to fight him.
Interesting that you fail to mention Krillin in this. I don't understand, are you a Krillin fan? Because Kuririn initially agreed with Buruma and said "yeah lets kill him" but then he suddenly switched to "no let's not kill him yet". So I think it can be argued that if Kuririn was a bit more strong in his convictions, as a character in general, then he may have been able to pursuade Goku to say "Krillin is right" and because Goku is the alpha male XD everyone else would follow. So yeah, Krillin's lack of resolve can be seen as the main cause of trouble.
Sure, Krillin can shoulder some of the blame, since he didn't do anything to try and convince Goku otherwise, but he wasn't the one who initially brushed off Bulma's suggestion. Vegeta I can understand doing so because he was a dick back then, but Goku, Ten and especially Piccolo should've known better. Besides, Krillin eventually agreeing with their decision wasn't because he wanted to fight the androids, it was because he knew it was only through fighting powerful enemies that the Z Warriors bonded. He probably knew by that point that trying to argue with that group was pointless.
It's not the job of gods to meddle in the affairs of mortals, unless perhaps the world is in danger. Plus, Kami risking his life in a fight wouldn't be wise, because Dragon Balls and all. Best he can do is step in and train people in those instances, like with Goku and later the Z Warriors.
Piccolo Daimao did put the world in danger and seeing as how much better Mr. Popo was than Goku, it would only be logical that Kami was way more powerful than Piccolo so it wouldn't be much of a challenge to stop his evil half. If Kami's job isn't to get involved in mortal affairs, what the hell does he do?
I'm glad the OP put "stupid" decisions in quotes because I don't think many of these decisions are stupid. They are reckless, but not stupid.
It's just Goku and Vegeta being typical Saiyan battle maniacs
It's not a superhero show.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Why in God's name did Goku give Cell a senzu? It still boggles my mind to this day. Never mind that Goku had no idea just how strong Cell was, but it was already an insane gamble to throw Gohan into the lions den without any plan and just hoping that he'd be able to spontaneously tap into the hidden power that he saw when he was training with Gohan in the ROSAT and defeat Cell. I don't give a shit how much Goku loves fighting and a good competition. That was such a fucking reckless thing to do. It essentially put Gohan at a disadvantage. And for what? A fair fight? Fuck that nonsense. Give me a legitimate reason why Goku pulled a stunt like that.
Right, it's not like Goku knew SS2 was a thing that existed, or that it could come out just from one fight. What if Gohan couldn't go SS2, and everyone died because Goku rendered his first fight with Cell invalid?
And on the topic of Zeno, I would chalk Goku's actions down to stupidity. In the Black arc, he saw how unstable Zeno is, erasing an entire universe because of one guy. The fact that Goku kept going out of his way to interact with him despite this is dumb.
omaro34 wrote:Why didn't King Piccolo wish for immortality instead of eternal youth?
Once immortal, the only move he needs to be wary of is the Mafuba.
Youth gives him agility and power. Immortality means he may never die but he could still be captured and locked up for literally eternity. Circumvent the whole thing by giving yourself a power boost.
Right, it's not like Goku knew SS2 was a thing that existed, or that it could come out just from one fight. What if Gohan couldn't go SS2, and everyone died because Goku rendered his first fight with Cell invalid?
He did know about Gohan's hidden power.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Why didn't Black just wish for Super Shenron to unlock all of the power in Goku's body for him?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Why didn't Black just wish for Super Shenron to unlock all of the power in Goku's body for him?
When he took over Goku's body he also might have merged with some brain cells of Goku. This is proven because he has the saiyan mindset of becoming in a state of mind that allows him to become super saiyn (rose). Now because he has some Goku brain aspects, would Goku ever wish Shenlong to grant him so many powers? I think not. As a result Black Goku didn't didn't do that.
ekrolo2 wrote:Why didn't Black just wish for Super Shenron to unlock all of the power in Goku's body for him?
When he took over Goku's body he also might have merged with some brain cells of Goku. This is proven because he has the saiyan mindset of becoming in a state of mind that allows him to become super saiyn (rose). Now because he has some Goku brain aspects, would Goku ever wish Shenlong to grant him so many powers? I think not. As a result Black Goku didn't didn't do that.
So instantaneously though? This still wouldn't account for why Future Zamasu wouldn't suggest it to him. If Black had to spend an actual year waiting for the Super DBs to reactivate and his Saiyan instincts got that time to fester in his mind, I can see this working, but with the Time Ring he can switch bodies with Goku, murder him and his family then have another wish available in the span of 15 minutes.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Why didn't Black just wish for Super Shenron to unlock all of the power in Goku's body for him?
When he took over Goku's body he also might have merged with some brain cells of Goku. This is proven because he has the saiyan mindset of becoming in a state of mind that allows him to become super saiyn (rose). Now because he has some Goku brain aspects, would Goku ever wish Shenlong to grant him so many powers? I think not. As a result Black Goku didn't didn't do that.
So instantaneously though? This still wouldn't account for why Future Zamasu wouldn't suggest it to him. If Black had to spend an actual year waiting for the Super DBs to reactivate and his Saiyan instincts got that time to fester in his mind, I can see this working, but with the Time Ring he can switch bodies with Goku, murder him and his family then have another wish available in the span of 15 minutes.
But what's too say that it didn't happen instantly? Zamasu had just literally switched brain's with Goku. And if it didn't happen instantly what's to say that Black didn't originally go around killing off mortals, revealing in his amazing power and before he could think about having the super dragon ball's unlock his full power. The Saiyan instincts had now fully kicked in and the idea of doing such a thing now seemed unthinkable too him.
Why did Gero never use the infinite energy reactors for himself?
Last edited by Gog on Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MarcBigleague wrote:
When he took over Goku's body he also might have merged with some brain cells of Goku. This is proven because he has the saiyan mindset of becoming in a state of mind that allows him to become super saiyn (rose). Now because he has some Goku brain aspects, would Goku ever wish Shenlong to grant him so many powers? I think not. As a result Black Goku didn't didn't do that.
So instantaneously though? This still wouldn't account for why Future Zamasu wouldn't suggest it to him. If Black had to spend an actual year waiting for the Super DBs to reactivate and his Saiyan instincts got that time to fester in his mind, I can see this working, but with the Time Ring he can switch bodies with Goku, murder him and his family then have another wish available in the span of 15 minutes.
But what's too say that it didn't happen instantly? Zamasu had just literally switched brain's with Goku.
Why did Gero never use the infinite energy reactors for himself?
He put his own mind in Goku's body, not share it with the guy, unless he's got the willpower of pre-Wall Sam Tarly, there's no way Goku's genetics should fuck with him so quickly.
And to answer your question, because the Android arc is shit.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
