Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by sintzu » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:38 pm

RehBeh wrote:He also supposedly made the dinosaurs extinct.
That was pretty funny. :lol:
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:43 pm

RehBeh wrote:
sintzu wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Resurrection F was the one that started shoe-horning Beerus into events.
I was talking about past events.

He told Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, he was the one who sealed away the old Kai & he's why king Kai's planet is small.

Is that all ?
He also supposedly made the dinosaurs extinct.
He also beat the Red Ribbon Army :P
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by RehBeh » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:56 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
sintzu wrote:
I was talking about past events.

He told Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, he was the one who sealed away the old Kai & he's why king Kai's planet is small.

Is that all ?
He also supposedly made the dinosaurs extinct.
He also beat the Red Ribbon Army :P
Can't forget the moment where he killed Piccolo Daimao. Or the one where he destroyed planet Krypton because General Zod was mean to him. Classic.
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ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Grimlock » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:06 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
RehBeh wrote:
sintzu wrote:
I was talking about past events.

He told Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, he was the one who sealed away the old Kai & he's why king Kai's planet is small.

Is that all ?
He also supposedly made the dinosaurs extinct.
He also beat the Red Ribbon Army :P
Beerus is also the responsible for making the Dragon Balls being infected and turning them into evil dragons.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:08 pm

sintzu wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Resurrection F was the one that started shoe-horning Beerus into events.
I was talking about past events.

He told Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, he was the one who sealed away the old Kai & he's why king Kai's planet is small.

Is that all ?
The Freeza thing was the closest to shoe horning Beerus in past events but even then doesn't take anything away from what Freeza did, just like the revelation that Vegeta was serving under Freeza.
The others feel way more natural and make sense, especially locking the Elder Kai in the sword given we know Kaioshin link.
Freeza9000 wrote:Not really sure how one would think Minus started all of the content you are dissatisfied with happening now. Also, not even sure how anyone would come to the conclusion that Goku never gave a shit about his family. As a matter of fact, he would do anything to protect them and this is shown constantly in Super.
As for Goku being amoral, you mean to say selfish right? Cause you do remember that he once let genocidal assholes like Vegeta go because Vegeta was that much of a challenging opponent for Goku. Goku still has a sense of what's right and wrong too.
Exactly. Minus was a fluff chapter that fans looked into too much by fans, it was too short to be anything. Also you are completely right the Goku is a bad family man is completely blown out of proportion, Super is literally showing the opposite infact Super is showing Goku is more of a family man then the original, he doesn't have to to work he can go train whenever he wants but as we seen he doesn't do that he respects Chichi in that regard and I think deep down he understands hence why Chichi and Goten got Gohan to spar with him a few episodes ago
and the mind boggles how people don't see it and think Vegeta somehow is better cuz he doesn't want to train cuz Bulma's pregnant yet is never seen by her side once. Also I fail to see what minus has anything to do with Yamcha and even then Yamcha got a good episode in Super and has a spin off Manga. Honestly feel like some people are just complaining about modern DB without stopping and thinking.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by emperior » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:DBZAOTA482, no offence, but I think you need to re-read the series, because all of the things you listed have no relation to Dragon Ball Minus. This feel like just a thread created for the purpose using the new material as a proxy to vent the issues you have with Dragon Ball that have long-standing before the new material was produced.
I was about to write the same thing.
Minus happened in 2014, so let's see:

-Goku being an amoral and mentally challenged manchild who doesn't give a shit about his family - Never happened in Minus. His selfish nature has been a thing in the manga. We could argue Super exaggerated this trait, but there are already plenty of threads to do so. About him not giving a shit about his family, he actually cares about it a lot more in the recent material than he did in the manga. He has started working, spends much more time with they and we also got his rage scene when Black and Zamasu tells him his how Black killed Chi-Chi and Goten. Before, he spent 1 year after Namek's events just to train (refused to be brought to Earth with a wish) and then spent 7 years as a dead after the Cell Games, and had no intention to be revived before shit got just too real and Old Kai gave him his life.
-Fanservice pandering to the max like sucking on Vegeta and his families' dicks - Never happened in Minus. Super isn't really sucking Vegeta and his family off.
-Yamcha being treated as nothing but a joke even by the series itself - Never happened in Minus. He's been like that since 80s and the only thing which happened in Super is a filler episode about Yamcha playing baseball with Gods, and the spin-off manga Reborn as Yamcha.
-Chi-Chi is nothing more than angry comic relief - Never happened in Minus. And wonder what? It's always been like that. Or else explain me her behaviour in the Saiyan arc.
-Trunks x Mai really being a thing - Guess what? Never happened in Minus and it first happened in 2013.

This thread is just incredibly silly, and I also can't even take you seriously anymore, as I noticed you always got to complain about Chi-Chi in some way, even though she's not a important character, has never been, and will never be.
About the clickbait title, you should change it. I too was fooled as I expected a serious thread analizing the writing aspects from Minus onwards, but most of what you listed either never happened, or happened way before 2014 and even 2013 (Battle of Gods)
Last edited by emperior on Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:26 pm

OLKv3 wrote:Actually, Chi Chi was pretty chill in the Android and Buu sagas. She's regressed since Super started
I distinctly remember her berating Goku letting Gohan train for the Androids arrival. Saying she didn't give damn about that and that Gohan's education was more important.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by sintzu » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:28 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The Freeza thing doesn't take anything away from what Freeza did.

The connection Freeza had with the Saiyans was special because he intentually destroyed their planet and killed Bardock out of fear of them so seeing Goku finally beat him on Namek had more weight to it then him beating other villains because of that.

Having Beerus being the reason he did that or part of it takes something away from that special connection they had with Freeza. A better way they could've done that is have Freeza not be able to do anything without Beerus' OK but Beerus telling him to do it was just rushed writing.
Last edited by sintzu on Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by emperior » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:39 pm

sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The Freeza thing doesn't take anything away from what Freeza did.

The others feel way more natural and make sense, especially locking the Elder Kai in the sword given we know Kaioshin link.

The connection Freeza had with the Saiyans was special because he intentually destroyed their planet and killed Bardock out of fear of them so seeing Goku finally beat him on Namek had more weight to it then him beating other villains because of that.

Having Beerus being the reason he did that or part of it takes something away from that special connection they had with Freeza. A better way they could've done that is have Freeza not be able to do anything without Beerus' OK but Beerus telling him to do it was just rushed writing.
Toriyama's script for RoF had Beerus just being ok with Freezer destroying Planet Vegeta, not him ordering Freezer to do so.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by The gr » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:43 pm

This thread is just incredibly silly,none of your vague statement is not even related to minus,this thread is as ridiculous as this one
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by sintzu » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:07 pm

emperior wrote:Toriyama's script for RoF had Beerus just being ok with Freezer destroying Planet Vegeta, not him ordering Freezer to do so.
If that's the case then him ordering it was Funimation's thing only.

Was that said in the Japanese version as well ?
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The others feel way more natural and make sense, especially locking the Elder Kai in the sword given we know Kaioshin link.
But in the Buu arc the Kai said who locked him up was afraid of his power. What does that have to do with Beerus ?
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:09 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:Actually, Chi Chi was pretty chill in the Android and Buu sagas. She's regressed since Super started
I distinctly remember her berating Goku letting Gohan train for the Androids arrival. Saying she didn't give damn about that and that Gohan's education was more important.
That was in the very beginning of the arc. By time the Androids were out, she relented and allowed Goku to train Gohan without a fuss.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:18 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:Actually, Chi Chi was pretty chill in the Android and Buu sagas. She's regressed since Super started
I distinctly remember her berating Goku letting Gohan train for the Androids arrival. Saying she didn't give damn about that and that Gohan's education was more important.
That was in the very beginning of the arc. By time the Androids were out, she relented and allowed Goku to train Gohan without a fuss.
She only relented after Goku accidentally sent he flying out of the house and into tree and rock... but then stated after the Androids were taken care of, that Gohan wouldn't be fighting anyone.

And she was right! :lol:

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:21 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: I distinctly remember her berating Goku letting Gohan train for the Androids arrival. Saying she didn't give damn about that and that Gohan's education was more important.
That was in the very beginning of the arc. By time the Androids were out, she relented and allowed Goku to train Gohan without a fuss.
She only relented after Goku accidentally sent he flying out of the house and into tree and rock... but then stated after the Androids were taken care of, that Gohan wouldn't be fighting anyone.

And she was right! :lol:
Not that scene lol, I'm talking about after Goku woke up from his heart attack coma. She made the deal with him without any big fuss, when previous ChiChi would have flipped out. Then in the Buu saga she trained Goten and didn't even protest at Gohan training for the tournament. She was significantly more calm than her Super variation, which regressed her back to her Saiyan/Namek saga self

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:37 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
OLKv3 wrote: That was in the very beginning of the arc. By time the Androids were out, she relented and allowed Goku to train Gohan without a fuss.
She only relented after Goku accidentally sent he flying out of the house and into tree and rock... but then stated after the Androids were taken care of, that Gohan wouldn't be fighting anyone.

And she was right! :lol:
Not that scene lol, I'm talking about after Goku woke up from his heart attack coma. She made the deal with him without any big fuss, when previous ChiChi would have flipped out. Then in the Buu saga she trained Goten and didn't even protest at Gohan training for the tournament. She was significantly more calm than her Super variation, which regressed her back to her Saiyan/Namek saga self
To be fair, Chi Chi has mellowed out a lot recently in Super and only really has outburst when it justified.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:44 pm

I feel like Goku's depicted intelligence started dropping around the Buu Arc, Minus doesn't have much to do with this.

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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:43 am

Boo Machine wrote:I think giving Cell a senzu would be way worse then not telling the plan. I don't see a reason other than "fair fight". Goku did have a reason in the Buu arc, sure. But it's not a good one. He still made it with the knowledge that Buu would kill people in the process and he had no guarantee that leaving the threat to someone else would work out. Especially since at the time the ones he was leaving it to were Goten and Trunks. And then he does the same thing again when fighting Kid Buu. Before that he agrees with Vegeta not to fuse because it wouldn't be fair to buu. And Way back when that whole miss started he could have beaten Majin Vegeta a lot quicker had he gone SSJ 3. But he doesn't so he avoids hurting Vegetas feelings.
Giving Cell a senzu changed practically nothing. Goku knew well that Gohan is stronger than Cell and wanted Cell to provoke Gohan with full confidence.

And Goku very much planned the whole thing out. He taught the kids the Fusion Dance plus he left Piccolo as their instructor who's one of the more intelligent fighters among the Z-Warriors and is shown to be a great instructor (admittedly harsh). He also made sure they were able to fend for themselves as he couldn't be around forever.

Not fusing was more of a pride/honor thing and he did it out of respect for Vegeta because they would be joined forever (which Vegeta would definitely hate). Besides it's not like they're going into battle blindly. They're well aware of Kid Boo's capabilities.

SSJ3 took away time from his day off from the afterlife and he wanted to save it for emergencies.
I apologize for putting words in your mouth then. The ship may not have been the most layered thing. But its way more then what we got from other couples, the exception probably being Gohan and Videl. Who would have thought Vegeta and Bulma would have worked? At most the whole Trunks X Mai thing is meh and not even worth thinking about unless you happen to really like it.
I don't know what makes something "Forced". That's seems to be something a lot of people use lately to label something they don't like.
See.. none of the pairings can be considered "good" objectively in a writing-standpoint but Trunks x Mai is on another level of bad. It's "forced" because it expects us to just forget all about Mai's previous history where she worked under Emperor Pilaf, who nearly killed Trunks' mother and partly responsible for his timeline going to shit, and took away her original character to be a one-dimensional love interest. More importantly, Mai is old enough to be Trunks' grandmother so going by the main timeline their relationship is downright creepy.
Ok, but no matter what you do in a story, especially one this long and has quite a bit of lore, your going to hit a few notes that a part of the fanbase really likes. We can't just label wide appeal with pandering in every case. As long as said story is good and holds up on it's own merits I don't see anything wrong with the story having an element fans appreciate.

Minus is small though. It's, like 14 pages, and most people ignore it and it's very rarely referenced in anything. The preferred version of Bardock is still the one from the special and that's still the version used in every piece of Media or mech that features him. If the franchise continues and Minus ends up being the featured backstory in everything, THEN you'd have a point. But right now the only time I've even seen Gine was in heros and fusions. Two Video games that toss Dragonball everything into a huge pot of silliness.
There's nothing wrong with appealing to a certain niche (I mean, Dragon Ball was made just to entertain young Japanese boys but it became one of the most popular and influential media franchise out there) as long as you stay original but do something only because it was in demand is sign of a bad writer.

Okay, I exaggerated Minus' significance there but still before that POS came out this kind of trend was not noticeable till then.
emperior wrote:I was about to write the same thing.
Minus happened in 2014, so let's see:

-Goku being an amoral and mentally challenged manchild who doesn't give a shit about his family - Never happened in Minus. His selfish nature has been a thing in the manga. We could argue Super exaggerated this trait, but there are already plenty of threads to do so. About him not giving a shit about his family, he actually cares about it a lot more in the recent material than he did in the manga. He has started working, spends much more time with they and we also got his rage scene when Black and Zamasu tells him his how Black killed Chi-Chi and Goten. Before, he spent 1 year after Namek's events just to train (refused to be brought to Earth with a wish) and then spent 7 years as a dead after the Cell Games, and had no intention to be revived before shit got just too real and Old Kai gave him his life.
Goku only started working because Chi-Chi forced him to not because he wants to provide for his family (he actually complained about having to work... heck, he almost turned a million dollars before Goten talked some sense into him) and Goku spent the 10 day wait for the Cell Games with his family (Krillin included) instead of just training while Super had Goku being a total dick to pregnant Bulma and even implies he was never there for Chi-Chi when she was pregnant (he also casually brings up the fact he was dead when Goten was born). Goku also went out of his way to fight Raditz in order to rescue even knowing he would probably die... which he did in order to beat Raditz and told Goten to his protect his mother as he hugged him before departed.

Also, Goku chose to stay dead for the greater good and his peers saw that.
Never happened in Minus. Super isn't really sucking Vegeta and his family off.
Oh please, it sucks them off so such that they would've nutted over 9000 times.
-Yamcha being treated as nothing but a joke even by the series itself - Never happened in Minus. He's been like that since 80s and the only thing which happened in Super is a filler episode about Yamcha playing baseball with Gods, and the spin-off manga Reborn as Yamcha.
Not true at all. Even with his jobber status Yamcha was still shown as an incredible and respectable fighter in his own rights. Toei back then also treated him mostly with respect as they had he putting up a decent fight against the Ginyu Force and the afterlife fighters.
-Chi-Chi is nothing more than angry comic relief - Never happened in Minus. And wonder what? It's always been like that. Or else explain me her behaviour in the Saiyan arc.
Easy... Her husband was killed and her 4-year-old son kidnapped by Satan... leaving her not knowing what her baby boy was going through for an entire year (damn) and the next she sees of him, he's on the battlefield with her husband's hardened warrior friends with the TV stations and Baba's crystal ball constantly breaking down. After that was done she find him all of a sudden naked, bloodily-battered, conscious but when the boy recovers in the hospital he wants to join Krillin and Bulma to travel to a distant planet for 2 months (in top of the whole year he was kidnapped) just so he can revive Satan. The boy felt his heart was to his task as the Z-Warriors died protecting Earth and he has the strength to at least make some difference... a fact she concedes with.
-Trunks x Mai really being a thing - Guess what? Never happened in Minus and it first happened in 2013.
Trunks x Mai was more of a joke in BoG. It only became serious in Super.

Again, I never said Minus directly caused these things just that it's a precursor to them.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:51 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
And Goku very much planned the whole thing out. He taught the kids the Fusion Dance plus he left Piccolo as their instructor who's one of the more intelligent fighters among the Z-Warriors and is shown to be a great instructor (admittedly harsh). He also made sure they were able to fend for themselves as he couldn't be around forever.

Not fusing was more of a pride/honor thing and he did it out of respect for Vegeta because they would be joined forever (which Vegeta would definitely hate). Besides it's not like they're going into battle blindly. They're well aware of Kid Boo's capabilities.

SSJ3 took away time from his day off from the afterlife and he wanted to save it for emergencies.
I don't have much else to say on the other stuff we have been talking about, But I have to disagree with these points.

Maybe You're right, Maybe Giving Cell the Senzu changed nothing. But it's the gesture. If people can rag on Goku for the gesture of starting this tournament then others can rag on him for the gesture of helping the enemy.

Sure Goku made a plan. But that plan still involved him Willingly letting others die so that he could leave it to the next generation. He had the plan, sure. And he still could have trained them, but he still threw away a sure thing for a plan he couldn't be sure worked. And you know what it ended up not working. The planet was dead and Trunks and Goten couldn't do the job. Had gohan not shown up (A factor Goku never considered.) it would have been a total failure.

I don't see how pride excuses not fusing for Kid Buu. I feel like that's a thing people would harp on REALLY HARD if that happened today. He is still throwing away a sure thing. Again. And again, it ends up not panning out like they hoped. If Goku really knew what Buu was capable of then this conversation wouldn't have happened.

Chapter: 510
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

This doesn't sound like a man who knows what he is doing.

I'd say Majin Vegeta and the ressurection of Majin Buu threatening innocent people qualifies as an emergency. SS3 took time off of his day sure...But he eneded up doing it anyway against Majin Buu and just to stall for time, which is still where he claims he could have ended it. And accomplishing even less in the process. If he did it the first time with Majin vegeta then he would solved the problem much faster with much less loss of life.
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by Kanassa » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:56 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Then what is it... not breathing?
No, it's being a person.
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Giving Cell a senzu changed practically nothing. Goku knew well that Gohan is stronger than Cell and wanted Cell to provoke Gohan with full confidence.
Yes, and that was an incredibly stupid thing to do.
And Goku very much planned the whole thing out. He taught the kids the Fusion Dance plus he left Piccolo as their instructor who's one of the more intelligent fighters among the Z-Warriors and is shown to be a great instructor (admittedly harsh). He also made sure they were able to fend for themselves as he couldn't be around forever.
And completely admits that he could of destroyed what was threatening them. If he wanted to make sure the next generation were able to fend for themselves he could of done so when they weren't all in danger of being eaten by a giant pink blob.
Not fusing was more of a pride/honor thing and he did it out of respect for Vegeta because they would be joined forever (which Vegeta would definitely hate). Besides it's not like they're going into battle blindly. They're well aware of Kid Boo's capabilities.
Even, that makes it even more stupid. It's even more hilarious when you make being forgetful a sign of stupidity, yet this isn't.

SSJ3 took away time from his day off from the afterlife and he wanted to save it for emergencies.
The big pink bubblegum monster wasn't an emergency?
See.. none of the pairings can be considered "good" objectively in a writing-standpoint but Trunks x Mai is on another level of bad. It's "forced" because it expects us to just forget all about Mai's previous history where she worked under Emperor Pilaf, who nearly killed Trunks' mother and partly responsible for his timeline going to shit, and took away her original character to be a one-dimensional love interest. More importantly, Mai is old enough to be Trunks' grandmother so going by the main timeline their relationship is downright creepy.

What? It doesn't expect us to forget about Mai's previous history, Mai's previous history is probably the defining factor in why Toriyama didn't just make up a new character for Trunks. And her original character is still there, even in her Future Version that's become a complete badass, she still the same childish woman she always was. And no, Mai isn't that old, magical dragon de-aged her. She was old once, but she ain't no more.

Goku only started working because Chi-Chi forced him to not because he wants to provide for his family (he actually complained about having to work... heck, he almost turned a million dollars before Goten talked some sense into him) and Goku spent the 10 day wait for the Cell Games with his family (Krillin included) instead of just training while Super had Goku being a total dick to pregnant Bulma and even implies he was never there for Chi-Chi when she was pregnant (he also casually brings up the fact he was dead when Goten was born). Goku also went out of his way to fight Raditz in order to rescue even knowing he would probably die... which he did in order to beat Raditz and told Goten to his protect his mother as he hugged him before departed.

Also, Goku chose to stay dead for the greater good and his peers saw that.
And he could easily not do it. And complaining about having to work? I'm not seeing the problem.

A dick to pregnant Bulma? He was perfectly fine to her, even taking time to spend a time with her even though he was rushing to train with Whis, as well as even giving his offering to Whis to her, even after Goten reminds him. And I see no implications that he wasn't there for Chi Chi giving birth. Even then, with no context of the situation back then, you can't really decide if Goku was being a dick back then or not.
Not true at all. Even with his jobber status Yamcha was still shown as an incredible and respectable fighter in his own rights. Toei back then also treated him mostly with respect as they had he putting up a decent fight against the Ginyu Force and the afterlife fighters.
Yamcha was barely ever treated as incredible or respectable. Even in Toei's addition. Again, 90% of his screen time in Super is Toei's doing and they're very good towards his character.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Minus is the beginning of the end for the franchise (writing-wise, of course)

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:31 am

When has Yamcha ever been anything but a joke character? He's been a jobber ever since the 21st Budokai, I don't know where people get the idea that he was at some point respectable.

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