Thoughts on Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

[Forte224]

I can see where you're coming from, but a few points:

- The Japanese voices are one take on those characters. Sabat's voice in Kai fits both characters well.
- Piccolo starts out as a demon so McNeil's voice fits. I understand why someone can argue the voice could come off as one dimensional, his Piccolo voice has enough range where he can convey both the formerly evil side of Piccolo as well as the avuncular side to Piccolo.
- I agree that Drummond's voice makes Vegeta sound stereotypically evil, but it's so good that I can go with it. And to be fair, at that point in the series, Vegeta is a straight ahead villain. HIs layers come later. Hell, even we aren't even told he is a prince until the Freeza arc.

Fair enough. I guess I'd really like to rewatch Ocean without the replaced soundtrack and cheesy lines. But I'm sorta speaking to the choir there, aren't I?

[cheddarsword]

I prefer Vegeta's Japanese VA to Drummond. I like the guy as a voice actor, but for some reason, his Vegeta is just sub par for me. Sabat portrays the character far better.

Drummond is one of my favorite VAs. He's just not Vegeta. Not for me. For me, he's Milliardo Peacecraft.

[Bansho64]

Sorry you don't like my post. I can't see how the Ocean voices can objectively be viewed as good. Vegeta and Piccolo are far too raspy and don't fit the characters, which is exactly the same crap people give the old Funi Vegeta and Piccolo. So I just don't get it. Once again, I don't like either of those dubs, but it's double standards like that that lead me to believe it's nostalgia

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. Frankly, I don't give a crap about what can or cannot be "objectively viewed as good". Especially with DB voices. I and plenty others here like it. That's all I know. If you don't, that's on you. And that's fine.

But these double standard and nostalgia excuses seem like pretty piss poor reasons. That's all I'm saying.

[NitroEX]

I'll never understand the double standard people have with loving the Ocean Dub but hating the Funi dub. I thought Kanzenshuu would be that one place where people understand but I guess nostalgia creeps here sometimes too.

You have it totally backwards. It's glaringly apparent that the majority of the English-speaking fandom (dare I say, even some sub fans) have a huge blindspot when it comes to Funimation's in-house dub of Z. You'll rarely see it or it's performances being criticized to nearly the same extent of the Ocean/Westwood Z dubs. It's as if people suddenly become professional dub critics when hearing the Canadian performers, but are contented as cows when confronted with an equally bad, and oftentimes worse acted Funi Z dub, with voices more befitting a pro wrestling show than anything else.

In communities outside of this one, it's tantamount to blasphemy to speak ill of the Funi dub and it's "epic music!". And predictably, with these types of people, much like the Nozawa haters, the Ocean bashing isn't too far behind. It's incredibly naive to think a prevalent mentality like that doesn't leak into places like Kanzenshuu, especially with how widely distributed Funi's dub is in comparison. Although I will say, it has seemingly toned down in recent years, especially with Kai shining a light on how poorly acted Funi's Z cast actually were on the whole.

Any slight praise that the Ocean dubs receive these days (and I do mean slight) is deserved In my opinion. Those dubs, warts and all, were crafted by experts in the industry and because of that, they hold up in a lot of ways, especially the uncut movies which were dubbed in 1998! Meanwhile, the Funimation crew were complete amateurs, with only Barry Watson seemingly having any experience as a producer and the internet darling himself, Christopher Sabat, having only worked on Chuck E. Cheese in the Galaxy 5000. These guys were woefully unprepared to tackle an epic martial arts tale like Dragon Ball Z and the end result really shows.

That said, people crap all over Funi for unfaithful dialogue and raspy voices that don't fit and don't respect the original source material, but then they'll praise Ocean which does the EXACT same thing.

Not true at all. No one praises the censored dialogue in the Saban era dub for example and Ocean is nearly always blamed for it despite being Funimtion's scripts. That stuff, in particular, is mocked to death while the in-house dubs own set of weird and unfaithful lines are often swept under the rug. The only time Ocean dialogue is praised is when they translate it themselves, such as with the Pioneer or Blue Water dubs, and that's because it's usually more faithful than Funimation's script.

Vegeta isn't supposed to sound like what Drummond makes him sound like. He makes him sound raspy and cheesy.
Vegeta is supposed to sound calm, collected and princely. Sure he yells and screams but during his calm scenes Drummond maintains the annoying rasp just like Sabat used to do.

Sabat still uses a rasp for his Vegeta, in fact, he's dialed it up in Super from what I've heard. I honestly don't see why rasp is the biggest issue for a Vegeta voice to be honest, Saiyans are basically space pirates anyway, plus they're hardened warriors. It's like saying Wolverine should have a smooth voice, it's just a bizarre criticism to me. The princely aspect is something that's more associated with Sabat's portrayal, but even so, the accent he used was always very fake in Z.

If your issue with Drummond is instead that he doesn't sound enough like Ryo Horikawa then I'm confused because Sabat sounds nothing like Horikawa either, even in Kai, and yet he's constantly praised for his Kai voice. Perhaps it's that double standard you mentioned.

Sorry you don't like my post. I can't see how the Ocean voices can objectively be viewed as good. Vegeta and Piccolo are far too raspy and don't fit the characters, which is exactly the same crap people give the old Funi Vegeta and Piccolo. So I just don't get it. Once again, I don't like either of those dubs, but it's double standards like that that lead me to believe it's nostalgia

I can tell you exactly why I personally disliked Sabat's portrayals of those characters in Z while liking the Ocean counterparts. Sabat's portrayals mainly lacked in energy and emotion, most of his lines sounded bored, rushed and at times, even monotone like he was half whispering them. You can really hear the difference if you compare his lines from Z with either Sabat's own Kai dialogue or Drummond's Z dialogue, and that's because the latter two actually knew what they were doing while early Sabat lacked any knowledge of how to properly act into a microphone and create an engaging vocal performance. Drummond and McNeil never had this problem, Drummond's voice was always brimming with energy (apparently too much for some people...) and most importantly, passion, particularly in his monologues. These guys knew how to convey emotion and not sound like a one-note tough guy reading from a script like Z Sabat. Without emotion to back it up, it's tough to believe what's being said by these characters and get invested in them, and that was a problem for Sabat throughout the Z dub, likely because the voice he used was so forced he couldn't properly emote!

Speaking of the voice, in the Z dub, Vegeta often had what I would best describe as an "old man" quality to it which just didn't fit the character in my opinion. Piccolo was also gravely to the point of sounding brutish like a monster, it flat out made the character sound less intelligent than McNeil's version of the same character. And don't even get me started on the screams, the opening of Dead Zone is a shining example of Sabat's limitations as a screamer, and it's something that's only improved marginally with Kai. His grunts and moans were another issue I had with both of his voices, oftentimes sounding downright sexual.

Enough good things have been said about McNei's Piccolo already but to sum it up, he was appropriately demonic in the beginning with a dark edge to his voice while also balancing the mellow side of the character. He successfully kept him sounding wise yet deep and intimidating without dumbing the voice down to the level of a brute. He could also scream very well, which added to the demonic aspect of the character.

[8000 Saiyan]

Indeed. Really, I don't think any of the Funi voices were actually good until Kai. They were generally okay in the OG Dragon Ball series dub, but until Kai, they were all so poorly directed. Even when they actually had some production value and the actors had some experience in the Boo arc, GT, or the original series, the delivery was so flat.
The Ocean dub generally went in the other direction; they were over the top, but it gave the show a lot of fun; something the Funimation dub attempted to discard at every turn, in favour of more '90s edge.

I thought Rager, Robertson, Hebert and Brannan were good in the Buu Saga dub. You didn't like those voices?

[Robo4900]

Indeed. Really, I don't think any of the Funi voices were actually good until Kai. They were generally okay in the OG Dragon Ball series dub, but until Kai, they were all so poorly directed. Even when they actually had some production value and the actors had some experience in the Boo arc, GT, or the original series, the delivery was so flat.
The Ocean dub generally went in the other direction; they were over the top, but it gave the show a lot of fun; something the Funimation dub attempted to discard at every turn, in favour of more '90s edge.

I thought Rager, Robertson, Hebert and Brannan were good in the Buu Saga dub. You didn't like those voices?

Eh, they were okay.
Even the better actors like Rager were pretty poorly directed, and ended up coming off pretty flat most of the time.

[DragonBallKing]

His tone of Vegeta would work perfecly for Majin Vegeta, because Horikawa and now Sabat in Kai add a significant amount of rasp when voicing Majin Vegeta. He's always had great intensity but never really sounds calm or relaxed. But as It stands I like sabat and especially Horikawa more.

[MR.Mark]

I'm a fan of Drummond but not so much of his Vegeta. His screams were epic, but the voice he used was never fitting imo. If he only used a voice closer to his Zechs from Gundam WIng with a touch of regalness he could of been a great Vegeta.

[Super Sonic]

I thought his Vegeta was one of those great villain voices like Megatron, Skeletor, and Cobra Commander that really stick out and are memorable. Before guys start yelling about how Vegeta's not like them, including Vegeta 3/4 of them have quite a bit of blood on their hands. (Or Energon/oil in Megatron's case). Liked a few of his lines, like on being a good fiend, and his wrath, etc. One I don't recall exactly I liked, but when Krillin has him at swordpoint, he says something along the lines of "Go on, finish it!" in a nice defiant way.

[TheAldella]

"You don't even have a tail, do you? What did they do, get you while you were sleeping?"

That line read was the greatest thing I've heard pre-Kai.

He's entertaining in the same way that the voice of Chucky the killer doll is. He's always intense, and always having fun.

[AloversGaming]

Used to love him, then I watched the Japanese version and now find him too cartoony. I think Chris Sabat has become the better English Vegeta due to keeping his tone more mellow and grounded as of Kai and Super.

Would love to hear Brian's take on Vegeta if they went with a more natural approach.

[Dbzfan94]

Honestly think he's really overrated. He's a great actor but as a voice for Vegeta it just doesn't fit

[Dbzfan94]

Indeed. Really, I don't think any of the Funi voices were actually good until Kai. They were generally okay in the OG Dragon Ball series dub, but until Kai, they were all so poorly directed. Even when they actually had some production value and the actors had some experience in the Boo arc, GT, or the original series, the delivery was so flat.
The Ocean dub generally went in the other direction; they were over the top, but it gave the show a lot of fun; something the Funimation dub attempted to discard at every turn, in favour of more '90s edge.

I thought Rager, Robertson, Hebert and Brannan were good in the Buu Saga dub. You didn't like those voices?

Eh, they were okay.
Even the better actors like Rager were pretty poorly directed, and ended up coming off pretty flat most of the time.

I don't see how Rager was poorly directed. He was fine to me.

[Asura]

I'll never understand the double standard people have with loving the Ocean Dub but hating the Funi dub. I thought Kanzenshuu would be that one place where people understand but I guess nostalgia creeps here sometimes too.

I grew up with Ocean and Funi, yet these days I hate them both. That said, people crap all over Funi for unfaithful dialogue and raspy voices that don't fit and don't respect the original source material, but then they'll praise Ocean which does the EXACT same thing. Vegeta isn't supposed to sound like what Drummond makes him sound like. He makes him sound raspy and cheesy.

Vegeta is supposed to sound calm, collected and princely. Sure he yells and screams but during his calm scenes Drummond maintains the annoying rasp just like Sabat used to do. Ocean Dub is terrible, even the movies are just serviceable. I'm convinced the movies only get as much praise as they do is because they were better than what we got on TV (and accurate dialogue of course) but better doesn't equal good

Despite you being shit on by everyone, I sort of agree with you to an extent. I don't have any strong feelings for or against the ocean dub, nor do I have any strong feelings for the early funi dubs, but I have noticed on this website that for some reason the Ocean dub gets praised to hell and back here and I can't for the life of me understand why. Like, not including the censorship stuff, people seem to think Ocean is a solid product with an amazing cast and amazing this and amazing that and can never be beat and etc. etc. when just like you pointed out - people shit on the funi dub yet praise the ocean dub when they're essentially both shit, just different flavors of shit. I almost never, ever hear the early funi dub being praised for anything at all, yet whenever there's a thread talking about the Ocean dub it's just full of praise for what it did right. It's really peculiar, and I don't think it has much to do with nostalgia as it is people just viciously hating on everything and anything to do with early Funimation.

Hell, I remember years ago when Sean Schemmel came here to talk to everyone and just be a member of the community and some jackass had to come in with his big ego and tell Sean why he was a shit voice actor and a shit singer, while he had in his signature a link to like a whole essay on how much he hates funimation and every voice actor there. Sean basically said fuck off and never came back again, and I don't blame him. Kai and now Super has obviously put funimation in a way better light, but it seems there are still people who just really hate them and will be quick to announce their shortcomings while never mentioning those same shortcomings in the Ocean dub.

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As far as Brian Drummond goes, I agree with one of the first posts in this thread that said he's a good voice for early Vegeta, but doesn't transition well at all as the character develops. He does sound like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

[ABED]

Because many of us did crap on the Ocean dub. We've exhausted that topic years ago. And it's not as though no one here doesn't acknowledge the crappy dialog and often unfitting voices, but it is not as bad as the FUNi dub. The pool of actors was very good. It's the direction and writing that was the issue. Early FUNi can't claim that. It was all an issue. It wouldn't be irrational to dislike early FUNi because it really was that bad.

[Dbzfan94]

Because many of us did crap on the Ocean dub. We've exhausted that topic years ago. And it's not as though no one here doesn't acknowledge the crappy dialog and often unfitting voices, but it is not as bad as the FUNi dub. The pool of actors was very good. It's the direction and writing that was the issue. Early FUNi can't claim that. It was all an issue. It wouldn't be irrational to dislike early FUNi because it really was that bad.

And the Funi dub hate isn't exhausted yet? That doesnt make much sense.

[ABED]

Because many of us did crap on the Ocean dub. We've exhausted that topic years ago. And it's not as though no one here doesn't acknowledge the crappy dialog and often unfitting voices, but it is not as bad as the FUNi dub. The pool of actors was very good. It's the direction and writing that was the issue. Early FUNi can't claim that. It was all an issue. It wouldn't be irrational to dislike early FUNi because it really was that bad.

And the Funi dub hate isn't exhausted yet? That doesnt make much sense.

The FUNi dub is still with us. The Ocean dub basically went out of print for years and even the reissue felt like a limited time offer. Not nearly as many people have watched the Ocean dub as have watched the FUNi dub. If it was any other series, people would call it out for what it was - a horrible and cheap product.

[8000 Saiyan]

Indeed. Really, I don't think any of the Funi voices were actually good until Kai. They were generally okay in the OG Dragon Ball series dub, but until Kai, they were all so poorly directed. Even when they actually had some production value and the actors had some experience in the Boo arc, GT, or the original series, the delivery was so flat.
The Ocean dub generally went in the other direction; they were over the top, but it gave the show a lot of fun; something the Funimation dub attempted to discard at every turn, in favour of more '90s edge.

I thought Rager, Robertson, Hebert and Brannan were good in the Buu Saga dub. You didn't like those voices?

Eh, they were okay.
Even the better actors like Rager were pretty poorly directed, and ended up coming off pretty flat most of the time.

I have a hard time seeing how Rager, Robertson, and Brannan were poorly directed. I'd say Ocean missed the mark with Dabura, Mr. Satan and Babidi. They all felt miscast to me.

[Robo4900]

I have a hard time seeing how Rager, Robertson, and Brannan were poorly directed. I'd say Ocean missed the mark with Dabura, Mr. Satan and Babidi. They all felt miscast to me.

I thought Mr. Satan was pretty good, and Dabura was a good laugh.
I prefer Ocean's Babidi, but yeah, not great. I'd like to see him recast if Ocean Kai gets a Boo arc, and actually airs.

[NitroEX]

I thought Rager, Robertson, Hebert and Brannan were good in the Buu Saga dub. You didn't like those voices?

Eh, they were okay.
Even the better actors like Rager were pretty poorly directed, and ended up coming off pretty flat most of the time.

I have a hard time seeing how Rager, Robertson, and Brannan were poorly directed. I'd say Ocean missed the mark with Dabura, Mr. Satan and Babidi. They all felt miscast to me.

Duncan Brannan is usually a pretty mediocre actor in my opinion, even in Kai his Babidi often sounds unenthused and hardly ever raises his voice, even during moments that call for it like the one where he's talking to a crowd of villains and ogres in Hell. He also still pronounces Buu in a bad way, making it sound more like "Beew". I really don't get what people see in him to be honest. Even though Klassen wasn't an ideal casting choice, his version is generally better performed than Brannan's is. https://youtu.be/dht89KATlxg

Dabura I will give you, Robertson was definitely a better casting choice at the time, as great as Scott is, he was being recycled for one too many roles and as a result of trying to mask his voice, the performance would sometimes suffer. I didn't think his Dabura was terrible, (it reminded me a lot of his Dinobot which is a voice I like) but it wasn't ideal as he was being limited in what he could do.

When it comes to a comedic character like Satan, I guess it largely depends on your own tastes and sense of humour. For me, Don Brown is always going to be better and funnier at comedic moments than Rager is, he's just better suited to playing over the top cartoony characters and Satan definitely fits that description, I mean just look at the way he's drawn, with his cartoonish facial expressions and reactions, that clearly warrants a cartoonish performance to match it. I've personally never found Rager to be very funny in the role and despite being of a similar timbre to Daisuke Gōri, I find the strong accent he has to be really offputting and kind of unfitting for the character that he is, I mean Satan doesn't strike me as anyone with a hickish background, so why does he need that accent? If I were to go down that direction casting Satan, I would go with someone like Jamieson Price because he sounds more neutral, although even he lacks the same comedic qualities of Don Brown so it really depends on what you prioritise as more important.