Would the Dragon Ball series be more respected if Z didn't exist?

[ABED]

Definitely not most the praise and respect the Dragon Ball series gets as a whole is the result of Z. Arguably introducing anime to west and serving as a gateway anime for many people in west, something the Orginal DB was unable to do. Some of the most epic and memorable moments and fights in anime are all packed in the Z portion of the series. If anything without Z, I'm pretty Dragon Ball would have faded into obscurity a while ago.

First, it didn't introduce anime to the west. It's likely a gateway, but it was hardly the first. And many of the best moments of the entire story happen in DB. DB would not have faded into obscurity, that's just nonsense. It was in fact popular.

While I do think most of Z is better than DB,

That's arguable.

[MasenkoHA]

Definitely not most the praise and respect the Dragon Ball series gets as a whole is the result of Z. Arguably introducing anime to west a.

Anime has been introduced in the West long before DBZ.
The 60s had Astro Boy, Kimba the white lion, and Speed Racer. The 70s had Battle of the Planets. The 80s had Robotech and Voltron. Those were just the popular ones.


Even Sailor Moon's dub precedes DBZ by a year.

[SaiyanGod117]

Definitely not most the praise and respect the Dragon Ball series gets as a whole is the result of Z. Arguably introducing anime to west and serving as a gateway anime for many people in west, something the Orginal DB was unable to do. Some of the most epic and memorable moments and fights in anime are all packed in the Z portion of the series. If anything without Z, I'm pretty Dragon Ball would have faded into obscurity a while ago.

First, it didn't introduce anime to the west. It's likely a gateway, but it was hardly the first. And many of the best moments of the entire story happen in DB. DB would not have faded into obscurity, that's just nonsense. It was in fact popular.

That's why I said arguably, though Japanese animation had seen theatrical release in the west over the years, it didnt really reach a wide audience. It wasn't until the handful of TV shows like DBZ and Sailor Moon began to air on American TVs, that was when anime was able to reach a wider audience and demographic. No doubt you can attribute most of that expansion and success to DBZ, even till this day it's still heavily talked about.

Futhermore, saying all the best moments in the story happened in DB, is none other than your opinion. Ironically an opinion that's not shared with consensus, I could say the best moments in the series happened in the Buu arc that doesn't mean I'm right. You may prefer that part of the DB story as opposed to Z, but the most talked about moments in the DB franchise are usually things Iike: Goku's SSJ Transformation, Father-Son Kamehameha, or Gohan's SSJ2 Transformation etc. Moments that usually happened in Z. The OG Dragon Ball was no doubt popular in Japan for its time, but failed to gain audience in the west and the reason Dragon Ball hasn't faded into obscurity now is because of Z.

[ABED]

You forget Speed Racer.

Ironically an opinion that's not shared with consensus,

I know I'm outside the mainstream, but who cares? Also, a big reason it's not shared is because so many people disregard DB not because it's worse, but because the marketers did a fantastic job of branding DBZ compared to DB. Most haven't seen DB, which is sad since most of the things DBZ is known for, including the fast paced action began well before the Saiyan arc. I know DBZ is more popular, but who cares? I really wish they hadn't separated the shows. That way we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would've all been one story and people wouldn't be falsely separating the story and disregarding a huge chunk of it.

he reason Dragon Ball hasn't faded into obscurity now is because of Z.

It wouldn't have faded into obscurity. It wouldn't have been as popular, but it wouldn't have been an obscure show. It probably would've been like YYH, well regarded, but a niche show in the West.

[sintzu]

The most talked about moments in the DB franchise are usually things Iike: Goku's SSJ Transformation, Father-Son Kamehameha, or Gohan's SSJ2 Transformation etc. Moments that usually happened in Z.

I don't even remember when was the last time someone started an in-universe topic about something in DB, It has all been about Z, some GT & now Super for as long as I can remember.

It wouldn't have faded into obscurity. It probably would've been like YYH, well regarded, but a niche show in the West.

Which means it would've faded into obscurity, both in the west and Japan.

[ABED]

The most talked about moments in the DB franchise are usually things Iike: Goku's SSJ Transformation, Father-Son Kamehameha, or Gohan's SSJ2 Transformation etc. Moments that usually happened in Z.

I don't even remember when was the last time someone started an in-universe topic about something in DB, It has all been about Z, some GT & now Super for as long as I can remember.

Super is new. And what's your point about GT? GT is infamous for being awful. It's a shame that people disregard DB have watched GT because like you they falsely make DB out to be just like the Pilaf arc. Even the worst DB action scenes are preferable to GT's best. GT was more popular in America simply because it came after Z. DB is brushed off like an irrelevant prequel.

Which means it would've faded into obscurity, both in the west and Japan.

YYH isn't an obscure title. It's niche, but not obscure. YYH didn't fade into obscurity in Japan.

[SaiyanGod117]

It wouldn't have faded into obscurity. It wouldn't have been as popular, but it wouldn't have been an obscure show. It probably would've been like YYH, well regarded, but a niche show in the West.

It wouldn't even have stayed on the air long enough to even establish a following, I know this because it wasn't able to do it before.(Obviously) The story was decent, but visually it was boring and lackluster, that's definitely one of most important attributes the DBZ anime has over the DB anime. The animation and art improved significantly, the DB anime made good use of choreography. Unfortunately the animation capabilities weren't able to make full use of that, until around the end of DB. Compared to other shows that running around that time, it would be only matter of time before it was taken off the air and replaced.

[MasenkoHA]

[
That's why I said arguably, though Japanese animation had seen theatrical release in the west over the years, it didnt really reach a wide audience

It got tv syndication too not just theatrical.

Again shows like Astro Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Speed Racer, and Robotech were pretty successful in the US


. .

, but failed to gain audience in the west and the reason Dragon Ball hasn't faded into obscurity now is because of Z.

It failed to gain an audience in the West because it was never given a chance to. Harmony Gold's test run was only distributed in some cities. The original Seagull/Ocean/Fun collab of the Pilaf saga had even worse timeslots than the original DBZ broadcast dub of the first two seasons.

When it finally got on Toonami it did well enough but expectations of what a "Dragon Ball" series should be had already been set for Western audiences based on the American DBZ dub.

[SaiyanGod117]

It got tv syndication too not just theatrical.

Again shows like Astro Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Speed Racer, and Robotech were pretty successful in the US

How successful? Was the success synonymous to a comic selling well or an niche anime with successful Blu-ray DVD sales? There was certainly a little interest and buzz around them, but not to the extent of DBZ.

It failed to gain an audience in the West because it was never given a chance to. Harmony Gold's test run was only distributed in some cities. The original Seagull/Ocean/Fun collab of the Pilaf saga had even worse timeslots than the original DBZ broadcast dub of the first two seasons.

When it finally got on Toonami it did well enough but expectations of what a "Dragon Ball" series should be had already been set for Western audiences based on the American DBZ dub.

I remember hearing in a interview or Vidoc that the Dragon Ball ratings dropped drastically shortly after airing and that's why it was replaced by Z.

[DBZAOTA482]

Definitely not most the praise and respect the Dragon Ball series gets as a whole is the result of Z. Arguably introducing anime to west and serving as a gateway anime for many people in west, something the Orginal DB was unable to do. Some of the most epic and memorable moments and fights in anime are all packed in the Z portion of the series. If anything without Z, I'm pretty Dragon Ball would have faded into obscurity a while ago.

I'm pretty sure Akira was the thing that put anime on the map in North America and I'm pretty sure Dragon Ball would do just fine without Z. It'd only be obscure in North America given it failed twice.

[Soppa Saia People]

From anime fans ? Yeah, most likely. From the general public ? Not really.

https://myanimelist.net/anime/223/Dragon_Ball
https://myanimelist.net/anime/813/Dragon_Ball_Z
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball-z

Not according to these sites...

Huh. From most of my experiences, the people who consider themselves "hardcore anime fans" say Z sucks and DB was much better.

[Hellspawn28]

Definitely not most the praise and respect the Dragon Ball series gets as a whole is the result of Z. Arguably introducing anime to west and serving as a gateway anime for many people in west, something the Orginal DB was unable to do. Some of the most epic and memorable moments and fights in anime are all packed in the Z portion of the series. If anything without Z, I'm pretty Dragon Ball would have faded into obscurity a while ago.

DBZ didn't introduced people to anime. It introduced younger people to anime, but people knew about anime for years long before DBZ. People did call it Japanmation until the mid 90's (maybe earlier). You can find anime at local video stores, comic book stores and even there was local Japanese collector shops that were pretty common. The Sci-Fi channel's Saturday anime block had it's first anime block before CN had Toonami and Adult Swim. I knew about anime long before Toonami had any anime.

[ABED]

It'd only be obscure in North America given it failed twice.

It had a bad timeslot and it was syndicated. DBZ didn't become a success until Toonami. DB would've been niche, not obscure.

It wouldn't even have stayed on the air long enough to even establish a following, I know this because it wasn't able to do it before.(Obviously) The story was decent, but visually it was boring and lackluster, that's definitely one of most important attributes the DBZ anime has over the DB anime. The animation and art improved significantly, the DB anime made good use of choreography. Unfortunately the animation capabilities weren't able to make full use of that, until around the end of DB. Compared to other shows that running around that time, it would be only matter of time before it was taken off the air and replaced.

It had a shitty timeslot. What kid watches TV at 5 or 6 in the morning? So no, you do not know this. What would've happened had DB had a good timeslot on a channel kids actually watched? And the story of DB is as good as DBZ's, if not better. DBZ keeps taking Goku out of play causing the Z Team to wait for him to show up to save the day. Christ, it happens twice in the Freeza arc. This is what I'm talking about. I think you are taking DB to be just early DB or the Pilaf arc. And compared to other American shows at the time, even early DB looked good. DBZ has some of the most lackluster battles of the entire series. How many really good battles are there in the Cell arc? A handful.

How successful? Was the success synonymous to a comic selling well or an niche anime with successful Blu-ray DVD sales? There was certainly a little interest and buzz around them, but not to the extent of DBZ.

Every kid knew Speed Racer back when it aired nearly 50 years ago.

[DBZAOTA482]

From anime fans ? Yeah, most likely. From the general public ? Not really.

https://myanimelist.net/anime/223/Dragon_Ball
https://myanimelist.net/anime/813/Dragon_Ball_Z
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball-z

Not according to these sites...

Huh. From most of my experiences, the people who consider themselves "hardcore anime fans" say Z sucks and DB was much better.

Most of those people do it because it's "cool" to hate on something that's mainstream.

[ABED]

Most of those people do it because it's "cool" to hate on something that's mainstream.

Or it's just they are like me and think it's a genuinely better series.

[Hyena_Yamcha]

https://myanimelist.net/anime/223/Dragon_Ball
https://myanimelist.net/anime/813/Dragon_Ball_Z
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball-z

Not according to these sites...

Huh. From most of my experiences, the people who consider themselves "hardcore anime fans" say Z sucks and DB was much better.

Most of those people do it because it's "cool" to hate on something that's mainstream.

not really , because most of the mainstreams are over-rated and get more praise than what they deserve , for me most of my favourite animes beside dragonball aren't that popular

[kn83]

Hardcore western anime fans don't represent the majority of anime fandom, besides, DBZ scores pretty high in Myanimelist.com. Also, western anime fans tend to massively overestimate their influence on the industry. Most anime franchises are most popular in Japan itself and the entire Dragonball franchise is no exception. Hell, the reason why it was brought to America in the first place is because of the massive success in Japan. Also, western fans only make up barely 10% of the entire anime fandom worldwide, over half live in East Asia, about 20% are in Latin America, etc.

[kn83]

https://myanimelist.net/anime/223/Dragon_Ball
https://myanimelist.net/anime/813/Dragon_Ball_Z
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball
http://www.anime-planet.com/anime/dragon-ball-z

Not according to these sites...

Huh. From most of my experiences, the people who consider themselves "hardcore anime fans" say Z sucks and DB was much better.

Most of those people do it because it's "cool" to hate on something that's mainstream.

Hipsterism is a massive problem in the american anime fandom. Japanese and most overseas fans are far less pretentious.

[Kuwabara]

It has less to do with Z existing and more to do with how it was adapted and disseminated in certain parts of the world, mainly North America. Many Americans still have no idea what Dragon Ball is really about, or who Goku even is.