FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:28 am

I stand by my view that they should have finished the UUs, then brought out box sets containing the UUs and reprints of the DVD singles, but with #68 shortened to not include the bits Ocean cut out from their #53. This would provide the whole series fairly cheaply to fans, and because it would be transferred from their DigiBetas, they wouldn't have to cover the expense of transferring film(Which is very expensive. Even if you do it as poorly as Funi have done). This would also mean we wouldn't have needed the Dragon Boxes, meaning the next release of Z would be Kai, leaving the market open enough for the Levels to actually sell okay.

But, ultimately, there's nothing to get out of this fantasy. Sure, Funimation made some poor decisions, but there's nothing that can be done about it now. What's done is done, end of.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:43 pm

ABED wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ABED wrote:How do you know they sold well? Do you know what their budget and sales projections were? Do you know how much revenue they earned?
How could they not have sold well? It was the first time that part of the series was going to be released in its entirety. I wasn't there at the time, so I could be dead wrong, but unless the fans all jumped off the edges of the Earth, I can't imagine them doing poorly. I think it had more to do with the fact that the idea of box sets was superior and more cost-effective in almost every way. Massive success transcending anything that came before was all but guaranteed from square one. The Ultimate Uncut's were just in the way at that point.
That's pure conjecture. There's good reason to think they didn't sell that well - they were discontinued.
It's conjecture either way. There's not enough public information to come to an actual sound conclusion, be we can speculate based on other things that happened at the time. I don't know what gave you the idea that the cancellation was most likely due to poor sales. While it's certainly possible, there's nothing we can point to that shows it's the case.

If we're adhering strictly to the realm of fact, all we can say on the matter is this:

"The Ultimate Uncuts, projected to be the first complete American release of the first part of Dragon Ball Z may or may not have sold well, and was quickly replaced with much more affordable, cheaply produced product that may or may not have had something to do with the cancellation in the first place.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:48 pm

ABED wrote:How do you know they sold well? Do you know what their budget and sales projections were? Do you know how much revenue they earned?
All I know is that they sold; which is what I stated in my previous post. Do I have specific figures? No. My grounds for the argument is a matter of personally seeing friends and acquaintances from other forums stating that they bought the UUEs in regards to the fact that they were finally getting the original seasons uncut for the first time. Plus, with majority opinion in the fan community at the time believing that Dragon Ball Z was FUNimation's best-selling flagship property, a lot of us, myself included, were under the impression that the sets will sell well.
There's good reason to think they didn't sell that well - they were discontinued.
It's not out of the question for FUNimation to discontinue releases if they believe that a better release can be done at a more cost-effective measure. They already knew that the fans were demanding boxsets and they knew that they were the license holders to the most popular anime, hell, probably the most popular cartoon to grace American airwaves in years. If the fans were willing to give the company greater profit earnings for boxsets than in comparison to singles buyers, who is going to care about the singles buyers? FUNimation took a calculated risk with a greater percentage of return and the risk paid off.
Robo4900 wrote:But, ultimately, there's nothing to get out of this fantasy. Sure, Funimation made some poor decisions, but there's nothing that can be done about it now. What's done is done, end of.
What is done is done but I believed it would've been good for both FUNimation and the fans to just acknowledge the inconvenience that stemmed from this decision and close the book on this once and for all. At least...that's just the way I see it.

Anyways, I apologized for my behavior to FUNimation Help by stating the following:
Hello again. I just want to apologize for my behaviour the other day. I understand that I was upset regarding an issue with your business that went unresolved for over a decade but I let it out in a moment of passion without regards to my own image. I just want to say that I am sorry and do value the work put forth by FUNimation.
and got the reply:
Hello,

There is no need to apologize, we understand :).

We are glad we could answer your question and if there is anything else you need assistance with please let us know and we will do our best to help you.

Thank you,
Funimation Help
Yeah, yeah. Form letter and all that. But, I still felt that I needed to show that I wasn't a bad person to the company.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:01 pm

No. My grounds for the argument is a matter of personally seeing friends and acquaintances from other forums stating that they bought the UUEs in regards to the fact that they were finally getting the original seasons uncut for the first time. Plus, with majority opinion in the fan community at the time believing that Dragon Ball Z was FUNimation's best-selling flagship property, a lot of us, myself included, were under the impression that the sets will sell well.
Anecdotal evidence isn't the best evidence for an issue of this kind.
I don't know what gave you the idea that the cancellation was most likely due to poor sales.
It was discontinued
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Theophrastus » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:21 pm

I wouldn't exactly be surprised if the Ultimate Uncut DVDs did do disappointing numbers for Funimation, if only because they were single DVDs w/ three episodes each coming out right around the time people were starting to get really sick of those (coincidentally, they were cancelled shortly before Viz started releasing Naruto in relatively cheaper 13-episode two disc sets).

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:37 am

ABED wrote:Anecdotal evidence isn't the best evidence for an issue of this kind.
You're making it sound like I HAVE to be a FUNimation insider or employee to give you the kind of information that satisfies your level of intent. Your standards are unrealistic, ABED. Sometimes, it's the thought that counts, which is what I started this thread over in the first place.

But you're obviously not gonna care. To you, it's cold, hard facts or nothing.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:42 am

Choujin Daizenshuu wrote:To you, it's cold, hard facts or nothing.
Well... I mean... yeah?

Your personal feelings up against actual industry trends that we can (and did/have) analyze(d) across various companies during this timeframe, all of which ultimately led up to a complete domestic industry crash with FUNimation surviving intact (if not in a better position) above all others due to their production changes and marketing initiatives? Specifically changes they made in 2007?

I'm not sure who you're trying to impress here with your overall attitude.

Again, I'm not saying I liked the fact that the "Ultimate Uncut Edition" was canceled, I'm not saying I think a cropped version of the series being the de facto on-store-shelves product is anything other than disgusting, but... I mean... c'mon here? Work with us? A tiny bit?
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:50 am

.......maybe it's because I had the intent to provide closure to this little loose thread that affected those who bought the singles and to FUNimation who made the decision to cancel them?

Maybe it's this thread we can reference to a few years down the line should someone bring up that particular business matter in a historical context?

Maybe it's simply just about doing the right thing???

*shrug* I don't know what more needs to be said here?

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:00 am

Choujin Daizenshuu wrote:
ABED wrote:Anecdotal evidence isn't the best evidence for an issue of this kind.
You're making it sound like I HAVE to be a FUNimation insider or employee to give you the kind of information that satisfies your level of intent. Your standards are unrealistic, ABED. Sometimes, it's the thought that counts, which is what I started this thread over in the first place.

But you're obviously not gonna care. To you, it's cold, hard facts or nothing.
If you are going to make a definitive "this is why this happened" statement, it's best to have cold hard numbers. If it is just conjecture, I'm fine with that, but some posters have said they know it sold well and unless you have FUNi's numbers, you don't know. At best, you can give an educated guess.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:16 am

ABED wrote:If you are going to make a definitive "this is why this happened" statement, it's best to have cold hard numbers. If it is just conjecture, I'm fine with that, but some posters have said they know it sold well and unless you have FUNi's numbers, you don't know. At best, you can give an educated guess.
It's pretty difficult to discertain when you're going by mere forum posts and I don't know you personally but I do see where you're coming from, ABED.

Anyways, I think what needed to be said had been said in this discussion and I don't think anything further will come out of this. I'll pop back in if anyone decides to ask me any further questions. Or hell, we can technically lock this thread now. I really just want to move on at this point.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Vorige Waffe » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:12 pm

Yeah, that's not closure, that's a stock answer. "Closure" is like when they said they cancelled the blu-ray level sets because of cluttering the market with physical releases of DBZ/DB Kai (and the possibility of the remastering process being too costly).

I have my own hunch about why the UU sets were cancelled (long story short: reverse importation concerns from Toei), but until we have something from the horse's mouth that address why and provides context for their decision, "we apologize for the inconvenience" isn't an actual reason that explains the cancellation.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:30 pm

Vorige Waffe wrote:(long story short: reverse importation concerns from Toei)
The Dragon Boxes in Japan were cheaper(The UUs weren't that expensive, but when you factor in shipping and import duty, the difference is huge), better quality, and more widely available. A Japanese person would have to have been a complete idiot to import the UUs.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:07 pm

lol I sincerely doubt that anyone in Japan had any interest in importing a sub-par product like what Funimation released. It worked in quite the reverse -- many fans in the U.S. wanted the Dragon Boxes. Now, if the Level Sets continued... meh, I'm sure Toei would have done their own thing if that was ever even a concern. The Level Sets came out nearly a decade after the last Japanese DVD releases. Not only do I doubt that people in Japan would care enough about the picture quality to import the Level sets, but if Toei really wanted to, they could do their own remastering Blu-ray process that would (as usual) make Funimation's look like second fiddle.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Vorige Waffe » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:47 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Vorige Waffe wrote:(long story short: reverse importation concerns from Toei)
The Dragon Boxes in Japan were cheaper(The UUs weren't that expensive, but when you factor in shipping and import duty, the difference is huge), better quality, and more widely available. A Japanese person would have to have been a complete idiot to import the UUs.
The Boxes were limited time only releases until around 2005 and expensive. Keep in mind Funimation already had over the half the show (specifically Ginyu to Buu arcs) released on singles by 2005, many of which were printed in high numbers and could be going for stupid cheap prices online, especially if they were used. I wouldn't be surprised if some Japanese fans found this and were willing to pay the shipping fees for dirt cheap discs as opposed to buying Toei's expensive Dragon Boxes or having to wait for the Dragon Box singles to purchase only a specific set of episodes, like say, the Android or Saiyaman arcs. If this happened and in noticeable frequency I wouldn't be surprised if Toei noticed it and gave Funimation a stern talking to on how to compromise their seemingly cheaper and nearly complete release of the show, as 2005 was the same time both the UUs and Dragon Box singles came out. Compromising it in some fashion (like cropping the picture) would have been a good way to chip away from that lost revenue of Japanese buyers purchasing dirt cheap discs that were printed in high supply due to Dragon Ball's international success and the American anime licensing bubble.
TheGreatness25 wrote:lol I sincerely doubt that anyone in Japan had any interest in importing a sub-par product like what Funimation released.
Not everyone in Japan is a giant otaku with an eye for video quality, especially with a franchise like Dragon Ball that has major appeal for many audiences. Not everyone will care if the footage is taken from digibetas or film scans, so long as they can get the discs cheaply. This isn't like some late night anime with a niche audience who scrutinize any flaw in any release.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:30 am

No, you're totally right, but they had their own release.

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:54 pm

Question about the Japan only releases of Dragon Ball Z prior to the release of the orange boxes over here in '06: Were the versions that were released in Japan just as cheap as the U.S. boxsets or was it more in order to accomodate for Toei's profit margin?

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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:40 am

The actual Dragon Boxes themselves were premium products with the DB and DBZ boxes at roughly ¥100,000, and then GT and the movies each at ¥52,500.

The individual DVDs broken out of those sets (released immediately afterward) were substantially cheaper and consumer-friendly than general releases. Each disc would typically have six episodes and retailed for ¥3,800, while the movies discs retailed for ¥2,800. That's roughly ¥633 per episode for the DB franchise's individual discs.

Compare that with an (at the time) contemporary series like One Piece, whose DVD release would contain three episodes at ¥4,500 (so about ¥1,500 per episode). Compare that now with Dragon Ball Super, where (on DVD instead of Blu-ray, just for the sake of consistency) the latest 12-episode box is ¥12,096, meaning just over ¥1,000 per episode.

All of this is detailed in our "Home Video Guide" on the website.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Danfun64 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:26 pm

Kind of off topic, but the Home Video Guide is out of date. It doesn't cover the entirety of the Season Blu-Rays, nor does it cover stuff like the new movies or the upcoming releases of Kai 2.0 and Super.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:27 pm

We know that. It'll get updated when it gets updated. Thanks.
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Re: FUNimation provides closure for the Ultimate Uncut Special Edition cancellation

Post by Choujin Daizenshuu » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:56 pm

VegettoEX wrote:The actual Dragon Boxes themselves were premium products with the DB and DBZ boxes at roughly ¥100,000, and then GT and the movies each at ¥52,500.

The individual DVDs broken out of those sets (released immediately afterward) were substantially cheaper and consumer-friendly than general releases. Each disc would typically have six episodes and retailed for ¥3,800, while the movies discs retailed for ¥2,800. That's roughly ¥633 per episode for the DB franchise's individual discs.

Compare that with an (at the time) contemporary series like One Piece, whose DVD release would contain three episodes at ¥4,500 (so about ¥1,500 per episode). Compare that now with Dragon Ball Super, where (on DVD instead of Blu-ray, just for the sake of consistency) the latest 12-episode box is ¥12,096, meaning just over ¥1,000 per episode.

All of this is detailed in our "Home Video Guide" on the website.
Good to know.

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