In-Universe vs. Real World Explanation

[TheMikado]

Sometimes, but when the lack of logic is staring you right in the face...

Think about it. If Goku is saving the form just in case, what is that just in case? Buu! Here's the perfect opportunity to stop Buu. By taking out Vegeta in one fell swoop, then it's a great use of the reduced time limit.

Well, considering they just had a bunch of unforeseen enemies and circumstances pop up, I don't see how this is a bad idea. Let's say he goes SSJ3 but it ends up draining his time to the point where he disappears. Maybe Vegeta gets a further mutates rage boost after seeing Goku go SSJ3 and now the fights not so easy, in addition Goku's gonna be gone soon and a SSJ3 level raging Majin Vegeta is now running around on Earth.

Look its pretty easy to say Goku should have just went SSJ3 and offed him, but I feel like that hasn't been thought through nearly enough. Goku kills Vegeta, goes looking for Babidi. Babidi, who has been listening this whole time knows he just needs to go into hiding using his magic for 24 hours. He's obviously done it before otherwise Kaioshin would have found him. Now we're left with no Goku, no Vegeta. The only way to ensure the future was to keep the strongest of them on their side so Babidi couldnt come back and pull this again when Goku isn't around. The best option was to get Vegeta, as the strongest living person on Earth to be on his side so someone is around to stop Babidi in the future. Vegeta was literally the biggest threat at the point Goku was making the judgement call. The only context Goku has are these "incredibly strong" guys that Babidi has and kaioshin's word who is repeatedly shocked by how strong they are. In Goku's mind evil Vegeta is a bigger priority and danger at the moment, and he is.

Getting Vegeta back on Goku's side was the highest priority and I agree with that.

No. It. Bloody. Wasn't.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You seem to be under this idea that Vegeta would go crazy if he defeated easily by SSJ3 when that is not the case. He was angry at Goku for not going all out in their battle. That was biggest insult to Vegeta. Not that idea he would have been easily defeat by SSJ3 Goku.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
I don't know why you keep ignoring what's stated in the manga for a theory that is directly contracted by what's stated in the original story.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nothing is being ignored except this panel, where Goku specifically states Vegetas reason for letting himself get possessed was that he was so desperate to get more powerful and catch up Goku that he went down that path. It stand to reason if this is the specific reason he's in this place to begin with why would you push him more?

Its like a guy threatening to jump off a bridge because no one cares and you going, "You're right. No one cares."
You proof that Goku's motives are otherwise are literally the same sentence where he lies about going his maximum power.
Goku is lying the entire time to Vegeta. And When Vegeta confronts Goku about it specifically, he doesnt deny it even according your panels.
Goku makes and excuse and Vegeta calls him out for making excusing and knowing not going his maximum. Goku doesnt even deny it. If what he said wasnt true Goku was straight up lying so why would you using the same sentence he's lying about something else as definitive proof that he's telling the truth about his other motives?
The intention from Toriyama was that Vegeta's deseperation to catch up to Goku caused Vegeta to make an insanely bad decision. Its not hard to imagine further antagonizing him would result in worse circumstances. Whether Toriyama intended it or not, the reason still stands and seems plausible.

Guy does irrational thing in response to a situation. Guy tries to talk other guy down by lying to him... Other guy finds out he's been lied to and gets pissed. I don't see whats hard to believe about that.

[Lord Beerus]

Well, considering they just had a bunch of unforeseen enemies and circumstances pop up, I don't see how this is a bad idea. Let's say he goes SSJ3 but it ends up draining his time to the point where he disappears. Maybe Vegeta gets a further mutates rage boost after seeing Goku go SSJ3 and now the fights not so easy, in addition Goku's gonna be gone soon and a SSJ3 level raging Majin Vegeta is now running around on Earth.

Look its pretty easy to say Goku should have just went SSJ3 and offed him, but I feel like that hasn't been thought through nearly enough. Goku kills Vegeta, goes looking for Babidi. Babidi, who has been listening this whole time knows he just needs to go into hiding using his magic for 24 hours. He's obviously done it before otherwise Kaioshin would have found him. Now we're left with no Goku, no Vegeta. The only way to ensure the future was to keep the strongest of them on their side so Babidi couldnt come back and pull this again when Goku isn't around. The best option was to get Vegeta, as the strongest living person on Earth to be on his side so someone is around to stop Babidi in the future. Vegeta was literally the biggest threat at the point Goku was making the judgement call. The only context Goku has are these "incredibly strong" guys that Babidi has and kaioshin's word who is repeatedly shocked by how strong they are. In Goku's mind evil Vegeta is a bigger priority and danger at the moment, and he is.

Getting Vegeta back on Goku's side was the highest priority and I agree with that.

No. It. Bloody. Wasn't.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
You seem to be under this idea that Vegeta would go crazy if he defeated easily by SSJ3 when that is not the case. He was angry at Goku for not going all out in their battle. That was biggest insult to Vegeta. Not that idea he would have been easily defeat by SSJ3 Goku.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
I don't know why you keep ignoring what's stated in the manga for a theory that is directly contracted by what's stated in the original story.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nothing is being ignored except this panel, where Goku specifically states Vegetas reason for letting himself get possessed was that he was so desperate to get more powerful and catch up Goku that he went down that path. It stand to reason if this is the specific reason he's in this place to begin with why would you push him more?

Its like a guy threatening to jump off a bridge because no one cares and you going, "You're right. No one cares."
You proof that Goku's motives are otherwise are literally the same sentence where he lies about going his maximum power.
Goku is lying the entire time to Vegeta. And When Vegeta confronts Goku about it specifically, he doesnt deny it even according your panels.
Goku makes and excuse and Vegeta calls him out for making excusing and knowing not going his maximum. Goku doesnt even deny it. If what he said wasnt true Goku was straight up lying so why would you using the same sentence he's lying about something else as definitive proof that he's telling the truth about his other motives?
The intention from Toriyama was that Vegeta's deseperation to catch up to Goku caused Vegeta to make an insanely bad decision. Its not hard to imagine further antagonizing him would result in worse circumstances. Whether Toriyama intended it or not, the reason still stands and seems plausible.

Guy does irrational thing in response to a situation. Guy tries to talk other guy down by lying to him... Other guy finds out he's been lied to and gets pissed. I don't see whats hard to believe about that.

Vegeta may have been desperate for power, but as we later found out, what was Vegeta was far upset over more was Goku not using SSJ3. Vegeta made it very clear that he prioritises losing with dignity in the fact of his opponent fighting with all they have rather than trying the close the gap in power. He was lead to believe to he was facing Goku at his full power but he wasn't. That is what angered Vegeta the most. He was more than willing to essentially make a deal with the devil to catch up with Goku but the fact that Goku did not essentially fight with everything he had, made Vegeta feel as though Goku was mocking him and made his deal with the devil meaningless. Vegeta may have some fucked up priorities, but that's how he view them. There was no excuse for Goku not to use SSJ3, and even Vegeta acknowledges that. On top of that, the excuse that Goku gives for not using SSJ3 is incredibly lousy.

[ABED]

Actually he did lie to Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell saga when he said that only 2 people could enter the Time Chamber at a time. He also chose to keep Gohan and his friends in the dark about Gohan's power leading up to the Cell Games, even when they asked him repeatedly if he had a plan. And with the exception of Krillin, I'm pretty sure he also hid the fact from his friends that he was the one who let Vegeta go after their first battle. He makes a brief comment saying "He got away" instead of "I pressured Krillin to let him get away".

Keeping someone in the dark isn't lying, he never hid the fact that he let Vegeta go, nor did he pressure Kuririn. He also didn't lie about the Room of Spirit and Time's limit. It was a contradiction by Toriyama.

And him lying to Piccolo before revealing SS3 is also consistent with him lying to Piccolo again after, when he says he's uncertain if he could have killed Fat Buu then and there.

Him lying to Piccolo isn't consistent. He never lied AND he already told Piccolo that even if he could, he wouldn't because it's a problem for the living to deal with. So what gain does he get from lying? This whole thread is about this sort of issue. Goku's "dishonesty" is the result of a retcon.

[Ringworm128]

When he first went SSJ3 he pretty much almost destroyed an entire city. He risked waking Buu up just with the power of the transformation alone.

[ABED]

When he first went SSJ3 he pretty much almost destroyed an entire city. He risked waking Buu up just with the power of the transformation alone.

First, he destroyed the city with his blast, not the transformation. Second, he could have easily destroyed that city well before turning SS3, and the transformation alone wasn't enough to release Buu.

[TheMikado]

Vegeta may have been desperate for power, but as we later found out, what was Vegeta was far upset over more was Goku not using SSJ3. Vegeta made it very clear that he prioritises losing with dignity in the fact of his opponent fighting with all they have rather than trying the close the gap in power. He was lead to believe to he was facing Goku at his full power but he wasn't. That is what angered Vegeta the most. He was more than willing to essentially make a deal with the devil to catch up with Goku but the fact that Goku did not essentially fight with everything he had, made Vegeta feel as though Goku was mocking him and made his deal with the devil meaningless. Vegeta may have some fucked up priorities, but that's how he view them. There was no excuse for Goku not to use SSJ3, and even Vegeta acknowledges that. On top of that, the excuse that Goku gives for not using SSJ3 is incredibly lousy.

Vegeta is definitely angry about Goku using SSJ3 but he never implies he's more angry about it than Goku being superior to him. Vegeta's entire issues surrounds being inferior to Goku, Vegeta takes offense because Goku doesn't go all out, essentially allowing Vegeta to believe he is equal to him. That's why Vegeta is angry, because like you said Goku didn't go all out and felt is wasn't worth it or necessary.

Remember in these scenes the context is Goku is begging Vegeta to work with him with only possible solution they have left, the Potara earrings, while Buu is lingering over them. In Goku's last desperate pitch which you linked above Goku specifically tells Vegeta to put aside his pride. Vegeta explains that it made him sick to his stomach to fight out Goku had been holding back, Goku comes up with a BS excuse (likely lying yet again as he has the whole time), and Vegeta specifically calls him out on the excuse since he basically did lie to Vegeta, Goku doesn't even deny it, he deflects the whole conversation. Goku is literally showing negotiations skills and psychological manipulation. I know we all like to think Goku has always been an idiot, but those are classic negotiator tactics he's employing. Obliging, lying, defusing, deflecting. These are all part of what Goku has done throughout the Majin Vegeta interactions to try to manipulate the outcome. Ultimately Goku go what he wanted in the end. Vegeta to redirect his focus to Buu and to cooperate with Goku to stop the threat.

[Ringworm128]

When he first went SSJ3 he pretty much almost destroyed an entire city. He risked waking Buu up just with the power of the transformation alone.

First, he destroyed the city with his blast, not the transformation. Second, he could have easily destroyed that city well before turning SS3, and the transformation alone wasn't enough to release Buu.

We don't know that. He didn't go SSJ3 until Buu was released.

[ABED]

What makes you think that would happen? What about Goku's power would open the sphere holding Buu?

[Ringworm128]

When Goku goes SSJ3 his power is increasing 400 fold which is huge considering SSJ2 only goes up to 100x, it's enough to cause earthquakes typhoons etc and it last for a few minutes. That amount of power for that long is pretty much a ki nuke , and Babidi would be be more than happy to collect the radiation.

[ABED]

When Goku goes SSJ3 his power is increasing 400 fold which is huge considering SSJ2 only goes up to 100x, it's enough to cause earthquakes typhoons etc and it last for a few minutes. That amount of power for that long is pretty much a ki nuke , and Babidi would be be more than happy to collect the radiation.

Where are these numbers coming from? And Babidi can't collect energy like that. Either he gets it through the damage Goku takes or using that device used on Gohan.

[Ringworm128]

I'm certain the Daizenshuu lists the SSJ multipliers as the following.

SSJ 50X

SSJ2 100X

SSJ3 400X

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ABED]

I don't know. I don't read them and I just go by either the anime or the manga.

[TheMikado]

I don't know. I don't read them and I just go by either the anime or the manga.

Those are the generally accepted multipliers.

[VDenter]

I guess its because Goku thought Gohan might handle the situation just fine by himself. Yeah its still dumb but at least with this instance you can kind of explain it. Unlike other times in the series where characters act incredibly stupid for seemingly no real reason at all.