Is Dragon Ball GT canonical?

[ABED]

Probably, but I fail to see how tone is an issue.

That's why they weren't good. If they were going to go full comedy then they should've at least gotten someone who could write something funny instead of reusing Toriyama's ideas and ruining them.

The rest of the show's writing isn't that much better but at least it had action to fall back on, these had nothing.

Tone isn't the problem, the problem is that the stories and comedy weren't good, not that it was lighthearted. You say the more action oriented episodes were better. They were terrible but at least they had action. However, the action wasn't good either.

[babaGAReeb 2]

GT is not canon
the creator Akira Toriyama has no real input in it and even referred to it as some non-canon side story

it is objectively bad btw, anyone who thinks its good is just stupid
some mad fools would say trump is a good president, same are GT-fans. i feel sorry for such dumb creatures.

[VegettoEX]

GT is not canon
the creator Akira Toriyama has no real input in it and even referred to it as some non-canon side story

it is objectively bad btw, anyone who thinks its good is just stupid
some mad fools would say trump is a good president, same are GT-fans. i feel sorry for such dumb creatures.

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Please review the community guidelines, which you agreed to twice prior to registration, before making additional posts.

[babaGAReeb 2]

GT is not canon
the creator Akira Toriyama has no real input in it and even referred to it as some non-canon side story

it is objectively bad btw, anyone who thinks its good is just stupid
some mad fools would say trump is a good president, same are GT-fans. i feel sorry for such dumb creatures.

You've already been given a free warning, so this now counts as your first official account strike.

Please review the community guidelines, which you agreed to twice prior to registration, before making additional posts.

Sorry, I forget to capitalize and stuff since I'm used to typing like that.

Won't happen again.

[Bansho64]

Does anyone have an idea of how Super could potentially fit with GT into it's own canonicity? Not saying I'd ever want it to happen, but it'd be fun to hear any ideas anyone has.

Sorry, I forget to capitalize and stuff since I'm used to typing like that.

Won't happen again.

That's not what he was referring to. The hateful crap you were posting was what he was talking aboout.

[Asura]

GT is not canon
the creator Akira Toriyama has no real input in it and even referred to it as some non-canon side story

it is objectively bad btw, anyone who thinks its good is just stupid
some mad fools would say trump is a good president, same are GT-fans. i feel sorry for such dumb creatures.

You've already been given a free warning, so this now counts as your first official account strike.

Please review the community guidelines, which you agreed to twice prior to registration, before making additional posts.

Sorry, I forget to capitalize and stuff since I'm used to typing like that.

Won't happen again.

Yeeeah I don't quite think that's what he meant. Probably had something to do with you insulting people with a broad brush and then going off about politics and Trump on an online tribal discussion panel that dedicates itself to the worship of a muscular homo-erotic nippon children's television show featuring the adventures of a special-needs alien and his friends.

On that note, I think GT is canon. It was given explicit permission to exist by Toriyama, and he even helped with some aspects of it like character design of the main characters. I don't think Toriyama writing his own story (i.e. Super) somehow overwrites GT's canon status, even if both series can't really exist in the same timeline. As I believe Toriyama said, he thinks of GT like an alternate universe. But that would mean Super is also an alternate universe. They both split off of Z and they're both canon, you just choose which path you like better (or you just like both and treat them both as separate endings instead of thinking there's only one "true" ending).

[ABED]

Canon can be overwritten, updated, and changed, but I guess you could argue that GT has its own canon.

[Sailor Haumea]

I like to think that some form of GT happens in Super's continuity, and some form of Super happens in GT's continuity. As it stands, GT cannot happen exactly like how it was portrayed onscreen unless...

1. The Pilaf Gang return to being old
2. Kibito and Shin fuse again
3. Everyone loses god ki
4. All the Gods of Destruction go back to sleep

But...a different version of GT, with the same premise but different details, can still work, which is what I'm going by. Why? Because GT feels like the ending of the series. The next generation being around is, for me, the definitive version of how the series ends for the families.

You can have a hypothetical version of GT altered to fit with Super. It's not utterly impossible. You just have to change a lot of details about GT. Unless you want the GoDs to be asleep, GT will play out very differently.

Basically, you have to change GT to fit Super. You also could change Super to fit GT, but that's just as difficult.

[Kokonoe]

It was most likely meant to be at the time, but I feel as if with Battle of the Gods and Super they are essentially trying to correct something they did wrong in the past as it did bad in Japan and wasn't well received and ended early.

With that said, trying to weigh the canon of Dragon Ball is rather difficult since some filler from the anime becomes canon with Super, so you can't really utilize the typical sense of canon and just say "only manga". At this point, I think it's safest to keep it simple and just say that manga and whatever is shown in Super and certain filler from the original anime that is made canon in Super is the canon and everything else is a side thing IMO.

You may get references to GT in video games, but I'd look at those as just fan service as people like SS4 Goku and Vegeta.

[GigaDrill]

A post made on another website or maybe even this one suggested that GT follows the DBZ anime canon, while Super follows the manga canon.
Considering that GT included concepts exclusive to the anime such as Tuffles or Goku's fear of needles, and that Super mostly just keeps what was from the original manga and Toriyama's spinoffs, it sounds like a fair way to categorize GT

[sintzu]

Does anyone have an idea of how Super could potentially fit with GT into it's own canonicity ?

The Supreme Kai and Kibito would have to fuse again cause they're fused in GT.

Goku and Vegeta would have to lose their SsjB form.

Beerus and Whis would have to completely cut their ties with everyone.

If these 3 happen before the end of Super then it'll fit with GT. I personally don't think they'll try to fit them together and instead will just keep writing stories and coming up with new things regardless of them fitting in with GT or even EOZ.

[babaGAReeb 2]

You've already been given a free warning, so this now counts as your first official account strike.

Please review the community guidelines, which you agreed to twice prior to registration, before making additional posts.

Sorry, I forget to capitalize and stuff since I'm used to typing like that.

Won't happen again.

Yeeeah I don't quite think that's what he meant. Probably had something to do with you insulting people with a broad brush and then going off about politics and Trump on an online tribal discussion panel that dedicates itself to the worship of a muscular homo-erotic nippon children's television show featuring the adventures of a special-needs alien and his friends.

On that note, I think GT is canon. It was given explicit permission to exist by Toriyama, and he even helped with some aspects of it like character design of the main characters. I don't think Toriyama writing his own story (i.e. Super) somehow overwrites GT's canon status, even if both series can't really exist in the same timeline. As I believe Toriyama said, he thinks of GT like an alternate universe. But that would mean Super is also an alternate universe. They both split off of Z and they're both canon, you just choose which path you like better (or you just like both and treat them both as separate endings instead of thinking there's only one "true" ending).

what i said wasnt hateful or insulting, it was just logical

Super has nothing to do with GT becoming non-canon, it was non-canon from the beginning
Akira Toriyama is the one and only creator of DB, without him there is no DB. As he had no real involvement in GT it is non-canon

GT seems like some 12 year olds fanfic. it is nothing like the real DB, it fails so bad at everything its laughable
goku spends the entire thing as a child or a furry, whos bright idea was that lol?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Does anyone have an idea of how Super could potentially fit with GT into it's own canonicity ?

The Supreme Kai and Kibito would have to fuse again cause they're fused in GT.

Goku and Vegeta would have to lose their SsjB form.

Beerus and Whis would have to completely cut their ties with everyone.

If these 3 happen before the end of Super then it'll fit with GT. I personally don't think they'll try to fit them together and instead will just keep writing stories and coming up with new things regardless of them fitting in with GT or even EOZ.

Don't forget Pilaf and crew would have to be old. Plus we have had way more wishes, plus all the past events that would have happened it's impossible for GT to fit.

At this point Super has been wildly more successful than GT so if it ever got the point of reaching EoZ or beyond, Toei/Sheuisha/Bandai will most likely be happy to forgoe GT. As of right now they're definitely in a safe spot.

[Asura]

what i said wasnt hateful or insulting, it was just logical

Right, so calling everyone who enjoys GT "stupid" isn't hateful or insulting, and neither is calling them "Trump supporters" who are "dumb creatures". I'll say it again (this time in plain english) but that sort of talk really has no place on a Dragon Ball discussion forum. Especially the politics part.

Super has nothing to do with GT becoming non-canon, it was non-canon from the beginning
Akira Toriyama is the one and only creator of DB, without him there is no DB. As he had no real involvement in GT it is non-canon

Believe it or not, people aren't even entirely sure of Akira Toriyama's involvement in Super. Like, we know he's involved, but to what degree? He draws some character designs (as he did in GT), and gives both TOEI and Toyotaro rough outlines of the plot. This is only a bit more than he did for GT. Super isn't even being billed as written by Toriyama though, as pointed out by VegettoEX. He's credited as the "Original Author", same as in GT, and they also mention how he "oversees" the series, similar to his supposed role in GT. So we know that he does more for Super than he did for GT, but by how much exactly? Toriyama still keeps a very hands-off approach on Super, just as he did for GT. Although he didn't write the plot for GT, he gave TOEI permission to continue his series, and never once has he claimed that GT is non-canon or shouldn't exist because he didn't write it or wishes it didn't exist, etc.

GT seems like some 12 year olds fanfic. it is nothing like the real DB, it fails so bad at everything its laughable
goku spends the entire thing as a child or a furry, whos bright idea was that lol?

GT definitely has some things going for it. Even its biggest detractors can easily point out a few things that worked, and I've never heard one claim that it didn't feel like Dragon Ball. GT came literally right after the DBZ anime ended, and you can tell how it just feels like a continuation of Z with the art, animation, etc. A lot of people say that despite not liking GT, it feels more "Dragon Ball" than Super (in looks and possibly sound), simply because of the time period in which it was made and how the art and animation is much closer to Z than Super is.

SSJ4 is definitely far, far, far from a furry. He is the complete opposite of anthropomorphic (which is what furries are, aka an animal given human traits). SSJ4 is undoubtedly a human with one small animal trait, which is the fur of an ape on his torso. He has a tail too, but that's nothing new for him.

[ABED]

GT doesn't quite feel like DB. It's close, but it doesn't quite have Toriyama's voice. It's Toei approximating it. GT has a slight meloncholy feel to it that Toriyama's work doesn't.

[Asura]

GT doesn't quite feel like DB. It's close, but it doesn't quite have Toriyama's voice. It's Toei approximating it. GT has a slight meloncholy feel to it that Toriyama's work doesn't.

Yes, I agree that GT does have a rather melancholy, or perhaps darker feel to it. It's its own thing for sure, but it still greatly resembles DB while doing its own thing.

[TheMikado]

GT doesn't quite feel like DB. It's close, but it doesn't quite have Toriyama's voice. It's Toei approximating it. GT has a slight meloncholy feel to it that Toriyama's work doesn't.

Yes, I agree that GT does have a rather melancholy, or perhaps darker feel to it. It's its own thing for sure, but it still greatly resembles DB while doing its own thing.

GT is definitely a Toei vision. Its similar to Toei's original concept for Battle of the God's that Toriyama adapted. Toei's original Beerus and storyline was MUCH darker.

babaGAReeb 2 wrote:
Super has nothing to do with GT becoming non-canon, it was non-canon from the beginning
Akira Toriyama is the one and only creator of DB, without him there is no DB. As he had no real involvement in GT it is non-canon


Believe it or not, people aren't even entirely sure of Akira Toriyama's involvement in Super. Like, we know he's involved, but to what degree? He draws some character designs (as he did in GT), and gives both TOEI and Toyotaro rough outlines of the plot. This is only a bit more than he did for GT. Super isn't even being billed as written by Toriyama though, as pointed out by VegettoEX. He's credited as the "Original Author", same as in GT, and they also mention how he "oversees" the series, similar to his supposed role in GT. So we know that he does more for Super than he did for GT, but by how much exactly? Toriyama still keeps a very hands-off approach on Super, just as he did for GT. Although he didn't write the plot for GT, he gave TOEI permission to continue his series, and never once has he claimed that GT is non-canon or shouldn't exist because he didn't write it or wishes it didn't exist, etc.

Absolutely correct. The level of involvement in Super of Toriyama and the depth to which he is involved is arguable at best. Things we know: Toriyama did both design and concepts for GT. We also know he may have had some vague knowledge or input of story points as he drew concepts for different worlds they would visit. With Super, we have some designs and word that Toriyama has created an outline. The depth of the outline we are not sure, but with the differences in adaptations, its thought to be relatively thin and may add concepts which were not Toriyama's. Implying there is no Dragonball without Toriyama and no canon without him implies any concepts that Toriyama did not originally conceive in Super are also invalid and non-canon by that argument.

As stated before, the best way to determine a pieces standing as to being in the "canon" main timeline is :
1) Is it authorized and official.
2) It fits into the original timeline and DOES NOT overlap with existing content. This does not mean it is free from plotholes, however the timeline allows that the stories could take place albeit with changes that could be explained with Dragonballs.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Its kinda official GT is no where near canonical at this point.

[mute_proxy]

GT is definitely a Toei vision. Its similar to Toei's original concept for Battle of the God's that Toriyama adapted. Toei's original Beerus and storyline was MUCH darker.

Do you have somewhat of a source for what the original concept was like?

[TheMikado]

GT is definitely a Toei vision. Its similar to Toei's original concept for Battle of the God's that Toriyama adapted. Toei's original Beerus and storyline was MUCH darker.

Do you have somewhat of a source for what the original concept was like?

Yes, its production is very well documented. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle-of-gods/

The original rough script was already finished by the time they sent it to Toriyama, basically the entire movie was already in production before Toriyama even saw anything.
The idea of the new SSJ form being a "God" form and taking things to "God" level were all Toei inventions, regardless of whether or not Toriyama changed them later.
My guess is Toei wanted a SSJ "God" form because it sells really well to pre-teen boys especially in Japan where all these shonen characters get "God" forms.