What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:29 pm

Cipher's above post set me down another line of thinking. All of those sexual elements are in Dragon Ball and in the English version... in the uncut realm, which, at this point, is completely pervasive in the home video realm. You cannot purchase Dragon Ball on home video without exposing yourself to those elements. And that reminded me that, by the time Bra showed up, there was already a precedent for a character having a potentially offensive name. And, honestly, it's one I see as having much more room for parents to lose their minds than Bra. However, in the case of this character, FUNimation did NOT attempt to erase that name from existence. They renamed him for the TV release and kept his real name for the uncut release. And of course, I am referring to the epic saga of Mr. Satan/Hercule. So honestly, at this point, any of the rationale that's been tossed around flies completely out the window. You do a Google search for Hercule, the first response you get is the "Mr. Satan" page at Dragon Ball Wiki. If you image search Hercule, you only have to scroll down a few rows before you get the first image macro with the word Satan in it. So any assertions that it would be confusing or that it would cause children to see things they "shouldn't" see are baseless when FUNimation was literally playing both sides of the table two years before Bra came under their radar.

In other words, according to FUNimation's own logic, and I want to make this very clear, naming a character after a bra is more offensive than naming a character after Satan!

(Either that or, as has been asserted in this thread, naming a character after a bra is somehow weirder than naming a character after Satan. Still waiting to hear the rationale behind that.)
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Valerius Dover » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:33 pm

I get the feeling some fans are overreacting to this. Bulla's not really a name change any more than Bulma is. It's just a different romanization. I suppose in Bulma's case it had to do with the fact that it's clearly spelled that way in her first appearance, and they might even have missed the pun entirely until later. With Bulla, yeah, they covered it up. Naming characters after undergarments that the target audience doesn't wear is probably not the best idea in a society like the US.

That being said, I fully understand the complaint about the subtitles using it, but hasn't that already been addressed? It applies to almost all the other names and terms, so it shouldn't really have been a shocker. Plus, she's kind of a minor character to get so worked up over...

(Oh, and on another note, I'm pretty sure Krillin's name was spelled as both Kulilin and Kuririn on separate occasions in the series)
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Cipher » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:36 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:I get the feeling some fans are overreacting to this. Bulla's not really a name change any more than Bulma is. It's just a different romanization. I suppose in Bulma's case it had to do with the fact that it's clearly spelled that way in her first appearance, and they might even have missed the pun entirely until later.
In this case it's not so much the alternate romanization I take issue with, or even that it obscures the pun, but more so the impetus for the change. I think it says some really unfortunate things about the way we approach gender.
Naming characters after undergarments that the target audience doesn't wear is probably not the best idea in a society like the US.
Why?

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:40 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:Plus, she's kind of a minor character to get so worked up over...
Please don't misinterpret "an interesting conversation bringing up really neat points and perspectives all around" as getting "so worked up over".

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:41 pm

For me, it was seeing the blase attitudes about it on Twitter (the "Of course they're not going to allow a character to be named Bra!") that made me feel intrigued and compelled to debate the larger social implications of what it says about us as a society. That's really what got my blood pumping.

As for my initial "surprise," as I said on Twitter, I was not surprised, but it still took me off guard. Of course I know by now the official subs use the dub names. Of course I was irate about that when it first happened. Of course I've had plenty of time to process it since then. But you have to understand that my exposure to the dub has been so limited over the past 15+ years that I oftentimes forget what the dub terms ARE! They're just not a part of my fandom. So whenever a new one pops up, it does take me off guard, pulls me out of the moment, and renews that annoyance of a subtitle track being polluted with names that have no business being there. In this case, yes, I honestly admit I tend to forget that her name was changed to Bulla in the first place, so it did genuinely take me off guard to see it show up. Not because I'd conveniently forgotten that the official subs use dub names. But because I'd forgotten I was even supposed to look out for this one!
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Cipher » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:56 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:For me, it was seeing the blase attitudes about it on Twitter (the "Of course they're not going to allow a character to be named Bra!") that made me feel intrigued and compelled to debate the larger social implications of what it says about us as a society. That's really what got my blood pumping!
You know, I hate to say it, but this might be a case where the kinds of people willing to debate the developments of a children's cartoon on their public Twitter accounts are not the people from whom you should be expecting open-minded social analysis. (I say this meaning to cast no aspersions on people who have tied the fandom to their public persona in a professional way, a la the site staff, your Mistare Fusion account, etc.) Nerd culture, as it exists in 2017, can be really sheltered and really regressive. Good on you for not backing down there and prompting a conversation.
VegettoEX wrote:Please don't misinterpret "an interesting conversation bringing up really neat points and perspectives all around" as getting "so worked up over".

Some of us live for language and the world outside our own personal space. This is fun.
Excellently put. No one's losing sleep over this, but that doesn't mean its implications aren't interesting.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:16 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Please don't misinterpret "an interesting conversation bringing up really neat points and perspectives all around" as getting "so worked up over".

Some of us live for language and the world outside our own personal space. This is fun.
This is going in my sig. Now.

Anyway, I really hope Funimation do what they've done with Mr. Satan, and have her called "Bra" for the uncut version, and "Bulla" for the daytime TV version that people hope never airs.
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by huzaifa_ahmed » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:55 am

ABED wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:Censorship & cultural imperialism. In this case, the pervasion of it into what was originally a very respectable product.
Cultural imperialism, how do you figure?
"Our product is better than other (usually marginalized, in Japanese media's case) product". The case here wasnt even really Japanese in the first place, it's intended to represent an English word. But just because this random boony company aired their version in Murica, it somehow supercedes a legitimate translation which wasnt even foreign in the first place. That's so silly.

In general it's so odd to use the old terms in these subs. Yes, Toei like every other anime company recently, wants to cut out the cost of dubs AMAP with subtitled streaming, they want to "normalize" subs (at least I'll say thats impressive achievement, considering worldwide dubbing standard)

...but you think if we can get over the drastically different voices, terms are a non-issue, right? That's really the most striking thing here - it's not necessary IMO. We see the same characters & we know who's who by context of the story.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by TheQuazz » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:10 am

VegettoEX wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:because in all honesty, what person with a functioning brain knowingly names their child Bra?
I don't understand how anyone can keep saying this when the direct lineage here is an entire family also literally named the words for underwear. In a series where the villains were musical instruments. And dairy products. And vegetables. And colors.

Why is "Bra" suddenly the outlier? What makes you stop in your tracks and go, "No sir, Bra is just too far!" Lance has asked this. I'm asking again. No-one seems to be able to answer this.

I need someone to actually answer this. Please at least try.
Because in the English version, most of those words DON'T mean those things to the average viewer. Hell, even words like Piccolo and Trunks aren't commonly used by kids, I for one didn't know that trunks were a type of underwear when I first saw the show. I definitely had no idea what a piccolo was. I know that that's the point of the names in the original version, and should probably be the point of the names in the English version too, but they the fact of the matter is in the Funimation dub they aren't. For most kids watching DeeBeeZee, the names of the characters are weird and alien, and thus "cool", they aren't recognisable as puns. But "Bra" is DEFINITELY a word that kids would know about, and in a world where the rest of the characters seem to just have silly cartoon names that make no sense, having one of the girls named after women's underwear would be quite odd.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:19 am

TheQuazz wrote:[

Because in the English version, most of those words DON'T mean those things to the average viewer. Hell, even words like Piccolo and Trunks aren't commonly used by kids, I for one didn't know that trunks were a type of underwear when I first saw the show. I definitely had no idea what a piccolo was. I know that that's the point of the names in the original version, and should probably be the point of the names in the English version too, but they the fact of the matter is in the Funimation dub they aren't. For most kids watching DeeBeeZee, the names of the characters are weird and alien, and thus "cool", they aren't recognisable as puns. But "Bra" is DEFINITELY a word that kids would know about, and in a world where the rest of the characters seem to just have silly cartoon names that make no sense, having one of the girls named after women's underwear would be quite odd.
I think claiming that "Piccolo" is an incredibly alien word to kids is really pushing it. I mean, there are music classes in elementary school.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:55 am

Trickster wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Don't the subtitles also use Bulma instead of Buruma and Krillin instead of Kuririn and Yamcha instead of Yamucha?
In movie 7, we can see Kuririn with that space uniform, when they're going to New Namek, and it's written "Kuririn" on it, not "Krillin". Instead of Bulma, who we can see, in the first episode, with "Bulma" in her t-shirt, not "Buruma". So, I think it's clear those are the right ways to write the names.
His hat during the Namek Saga says "Kulilin" on it, so is that supposed to be his name then?
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by nato25 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:23 am

ShadowBardock89 wrote:
Trickster wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Don't the subtitles also use Bulma instead of Buruma and Krillin instead of Kuririn and Yamcha instead of Yamucha?
In movie 7, we can see Kuririn with that space uniform, when they're going to New Namek, and it's written "Kuririn" on it, not "Krillin". Instead of Bulma, who we can see, in the first episode, with "Bulma" in her t-shirt, not "Buruma". So, I think it's clear those are the right ways to write the names.
His hat during the Namek Saga says "Kulilin" on it, so is that supposed to be his name then?
Yeah who knows whats going on with the names on clothes honestly lol.

Anyway it's obvious the TOEI subtitles have a clear affinity to the renamings that are part of Funimations dub (with the exception of Masenko being Explosive Demon Flash and Kaioken being King Kai FIst for whatever reasons). As such, the subs were almost certain to retain that loyalty and stick with Bulla. In this way it's strange that the subs aren't really just a straight translation (or even slightly adapted translation) of the audio but also taking into account those dub changes. This is no doubt to accomodate for the large English speaking audience Dragon Ball has accrued over the years.

I have no quarrel with the subtitles retaining the Bulla name as that's what I know her as, watching the original series mostly dubbed. The people that I guess are getting mad would be those who want completely faithful subtitles and translations from the original script which they aren't really getting with the subs using Bulla. Personally there's much bigger battles I'd take on in terms of Super as a whole but I understand the rationale of those that aren't happy with the choice.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Puto » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:25 am

I feel I need to bring this up...

FUNimation didn't invent the name Bulla.

The Portuguese dub of GT, done way back in 1998, used Bulla (and in one instance even mispronounced it as Bulula). This leads me to suspect this name spelling came from a Toei provided English script and FUNi just didn't question it.
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by nato25 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:14 am

Puto wrote:I feel I need to bring this up...

FUNimation didn't invent the name Bulla.

The Portuguese dub of GT, done way back in 1998, used Bulla (and in one instance even mispronounced it as Bulula). This leads me to suspect this name spelling came from a Toei provided English script and FUNi just didn't question it.
Interesting, I had no idea that was the case.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Trickster » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:47 am

ShadowBardock89 wrote: His hat during the Namek Saga says "Kulilin" on it, so is that supposed to be his name then?
Yeah, you're right. You convinced me that the right way is "Kulilin".
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by King-K9 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:17 pm

It's not that big of a deal. If you want to call her Bra then call her Bra. If you want to call her Bulla then call her Bulla. I don't know why people get so worked up over terminology. It's still the same character regardless so it's kinda pointless.

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:18 pm

King-K9 wrote:I don't know why people get so worked up over terminology.
VegettoEX wrote:
Valerius Dover wrote:Plus, she's kind of a minor character to get so worked up over...
Please don't misinterpret "an interesting conversation bringing up really neat points and perspectives all around" as getting "so worked up over".
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:37 pm

Trickster wrote:
ShadowBardock89 wrote: His hat during the Namek Saga says "Kulilin" on it, so is that supposed to be his name then?
Yeah, you're right. You convinced me that the right way is "Kulilin".
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
But he wears clothing that says "Kuririn" during the 23rd Budoukai. The point is: don't trust inconsistent Engrish from Japanese creators.
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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by SansrivaaL » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:38 pm

I didnt know people made a big deal out of this, Bra or Bulla when it comes to DB the same character comes into mind, why do we need to get a little worried about which one is official or which one makes more sense? I mean for some instances I even call Gohan's ultimate form mystic, for some reason I remember when I mentioned "JAP" in this forum, people came at me like I'm some racist mfcker (albeit I didnt know it was a racist word since the japanese people that I know dont take offense on that word and doesnt even know it means something bad)

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Re: What's so bad about 'Bulla?'

Post by Cipher » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:54 pm

Puto wrote:I feel I need to bring this up...

FUNimation didn't invent the name Bulla.

The Portuguese dub of GT, done way back in 1998, used Bulla (and in one instance even mispronounced it as Bulula). This leads me to suspect this name spelling came from a Toei provided English script and FUNi just didn't question it.
While this is interesting, and I'd love to know whether that's the case, I'm not sure it changes the conversation much. By 2003, FUNimation had been working with Steve Simmons for years, and would have been well aware, through the series' internet presence, of accepted character names, terminology, etc. I'm not horribly inclined to believe the name "Bra" escaped them. They were much less reliant on Toei's international materials than they would have been in, say, 1996.

The impetus for the Bra/Bulla thing might be worth asking Chris Sabat about the next time he's at a panel. I'm not sure he was the one in a position to call shots on it at the time, but he's deeply involved in the process now and is generally forthcoming with answers.
Last edited by Cipher on Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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