If Dragonball Z came back on TV would Bruce Faulconer Music come back?

[Gokuisasuperhero]

If Dragonball Z came back on TV would Bruce Faulconer Music come back? CN had DBZ with Bruce Faulconer Music on until 2008 long after the lawsuit so it not like that did not pull at that time. So if it was on until after the lawsuit could that not put it on TV again? When Toonami air DBZ on that April Fool day the day of Toonami coming back the Music that air for that episodes was Bruce Faulconer. So could it air again?

[Asura]

I think Funi now wants to be as accurate to source material as possible, so if for whatever odd and totally-never-happening reason Dragonball Z was to start airing again with their mediocre dub, they would probably use the original Japanese OST.

[TheGreatness25]

I'd say that they would probably use their orange brick/Blu-ray (whichever) footage because that's what they're using on Funimation Now and what they used on Hulu. Those versions of the series also only had the original BGM, so I'm assuming that the Faulconer BGM is pretty much never going to be used on TV or streaming media again.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I could see it going either way, and I think a big factor would be whether they could air the uncut version or if they had to air an edited version.

Several years ago when Nicktoons started airing GT, they had to use an edited version because, well, it was Nicktoons. If FUNimation was editing the show for the first time, I'm sure they probably would have gone with Tokunaga's score, but they already had an edited version on hand from when the show previously aired on Cartoon Network several years prior. That edited version happened to have Mark Menza's replacement score, so that's the score we heard. In other words, the audio and video masters that Nicktoons received from FUNimation only had one audio track and only one video track, which was the edited audio synced to the edited footage. To create an edited version with Tokunaga's score would mean re-editing the video from scratch, as well as digging up all the individual audio recordings of the edited dialogue (which they may not even have anymore) and re-syncing them to the newly edited footage...so to do all that just to have an edited version of GT with the original score would cost time and money that would only satisfy a small group of fans (most of whom already have the show uncut on home video anyway), which realistically would not be financially worthwhile.

Same deal with DBZ. There is no edited version with Kikuchi's score. The reason Cartoon Network was able to air the DBZ movies a few years ago on TV with Kikuchi's score was because they were airing the uncut versions, and thanks to the orange bricks, FUNimation did in fact have an uncut version on hand featuring Kikuchi's score. I guarantee you that if Cartoon Network asked for an edited version, we would have heard the Faulconer score since the only edited version of the show that FUNimation has features the Faulconer score.

So, all that to say, if the TV network in question could air the uncut version, there's a chance we'd hear either score, but if they wanted an edited version, we'd definitely hear only the Faulconer score.

[Kokonoe]

I think Funi now wants to be as accurate to source material as possible, so if for whatever odd and totally-never-happening reason Dragonball Z was to start airing again with their mediocre dub, they would probably use the original Japanese OST.

What makes it more "accurate", per se? Dragon Ball originated from a manga without sound, and not only that, Kai uses a different OST and I wouldn't say that is any less "accurate".

[VegettoEX]

What makes it more "accurate", per se? Dragon Ball originated from a manga without sound, and not only that, Kai uses a different OST and I wouldn't say that is any less "accurate".

FUNimation does not actively partake in music replacement anymore. What they get is what they put out now.

I get that dub aficionados want and stretch for a reason for the continued inclusion of the old replacement score, but let's be honest: we all know what everyone is saying here. Let's not question the meaning of words just to make a point!

[Kojiro Sasaki]

What makes it more "accurate", per se? Dragon Ball originated from a manga without sound, and not only that, Kai uses a different OST and I wouldn't say that is any less "accurate".

I think that in this case, the “source material” is Dragon Ball Z anime series. It was produced in Japan and scored by Shunsuke Kikuchi.

By the way, did Faulconer team read the manga?

[Kokonoe]

I get that dub aficionados want and stretch for a reason for the continued inclusion of the old replacement score, but let's be honest: we all know what everyone is saying here. Let's not question the meaning of words just to make a point!

I don't actually watch TV, so I'm not motivated by wanting Faulconer's OST on Cartoon Network, nor would I throw a fit if the Japanese OST was aired. As I've said elsewhere, Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball, I don't mind either OST.

So now with the assumption laid to rest, my response to him is not one without logic behind it. I'm curious to what makes one OST more "accurate" than another? Is Kai's less accurate?

[VegettoEX]

So now with the assumption laid to rest, my response to him is not one without logic behind it. I'm curious to what makes one OST more "accurate" than another? Is Kai's inaccurate?

See Kojiro's point. FUNimation's not translating and adapting the manga (that's Viz's job); they're translating and adapting the TV series. An "accurate" dub, in this sense, is one that faithfully adapts the spirit of the characters, the script, and yes, keeps the original music as a part of that package.

With Kai, FUNimation is once again translating and adapting what Toei sends them. Just because Toei changed the music doesn't, in the spirit of an "accurate" production, give them a free pass to swap it out AGAIN to whatever they want. In this case, if someone has an issue with the music, they should go up the chain of command to Toei, rather than FUNimation, where the decision was ultimately made on an initial production level.

[Kokonoe]

So now with the assumption laid to rest, my response to him is not one without logic behind it. I'm curious to what makes one OST more "accurate" than another? Is Kai's inaccurate?

See Kojiro's point. FUNimation's not translating and adapting the manga (that's Viz's job); they're translating and adapting the TV series. An "accurate" dub, in this sense, is one that faithfully adapts the spirit of the characters, the script, and yes, keeps the original music as a part of that package.

With Kai, FUNimation is once again translating and adapting what Toei sends them. Just because Toei changed the music doesn't, in the spirit of an "accurate" production, give them a free pass to swap it out AGAIN to whatever they want. In this case, if someone has an issue with the music, they should go up the chain of command to Toei, rather than FUNimation, where the decision was ultimately made on an initial production level.

I'm actually only referring to the music here, so I guess what is being referred to here is that it's more accurate to the anime. Faulconer (and his team) from what I can tell designed the music based on what is occurring on the screen, I'm not sure how the original anime's OST was designed, I heard it was made as an OST separately and not on a per scene basis, but I guess it gets to a point where which OST defines the "spirit" of what is going on the screen to that individual.

This is generally where a lot of salt lies for all parties involved, with the main being any of Japanese's OST vs Faulconer's. I've seen people prefer the Yamamoto's OST over the original a lot as well. Personally, I can get enjoyment out of all of the OSTs, but Faulconer's scene based OST resonates with me more. The original, although good, has this somewhat 80's sound to it that works well, but can sometimes be a little noticeable to me. I generally am a fan of Kenji's music (plagiarism aside).

TL;DR

I consider what one considers more accurate to the portrayal of the manga up to the individual, but now I see the point that's being made. It's what's more accurate to the original anime release.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I personally think that the "devotion" to Faulconer's score--which is to say, the sentiment among some fans that "DBZ isn't DBZ without Faulconer"--has died down over time. It's not completely dead, but between Kai bringing in a whole new generation of fans* who have no clue about Faulconer's score, all the countries around the world who never heard Bruce Faulconer's score to begin with, the multiple different composers heard over the years due to the Kai Music Scandal, the great (by anime movie standards) ticket sales of the first two movies, and the acquisition of Super...a lot of people seem to really just like the show because of the show itself now, and have moved on from the notion that Bruce Faulconer's score must be included.

*PS: I still feel old whenever I see posts on Kanzenshuu from people saying, "I grew up watching Kai on Nicktoons"...as somebody who was in college when Kai was airing on Nicktoons, I still can't quite get over how cool--and weird--that is.

[VegettoEX]

Cool, glad we're on the same page!

I don't agree at all with "scored to the show" having any weight at all in this discussion of "accuracy". Sure, the Faulconer Productions team often scored new pieces of music directly to scenes of the show. So did the original Shuki Levy / Ron Wasserman replacement score. But that has nothing to do with "accuracy"; that's just interesting behind-the-scenes information about its production. It's a tidbit. It's a factoid. Furthermore, they were told what kind of style to create by the higher production powers (namely Barry Watson), all of which was wrapped up in a marketing plan to appeal to a specific demographic in a certain place and time. It's not like Bruce sat in a vacuum and decided what the "spirit" of the show was.

Whether or not you "like" it also has no weight in an "accuracy" discussion, either. Toei made a product a certain way for certain reasons, and it is what it is. If you believe in the spirit of "accuracy", you're not looking for someone else's interpretation or hot new take on the product; you want the product (as close as you can get it; in some cases, that's subtitled in its original language, and in other cases, that's dubbed in your local language).

If you want Barry Watson Presents: All-New Dragon Ball Z!... I mean, fine, awesome, but that's not in the running for an "accuracy" analysis or discussion.

as somebody who was in college when Kai was airing on Nicktoons

Let's not play this game you goddamn whippersnapper.

[TheBlackPaladin]

as somebody who was in college when Kai was airing on Nicktoons

Let's not play this game you goddamn whippersnapper.

Hahaha...my apologies, Grand Elder.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

I personally think that the "devotion" to Faulconer's score--which is to say, the sentiment among some fans that "DBZ isn't DBZ without Faulconer"--has died down over time. It's not completely dead, but between Kai bringing in a whole new generation of fans* who have no clue about Faulconer's score, all the countries around the world who never heard Bruce Faulconer's score to begin with, the multiple different composers heard over the years due to the Kai Music Scandal, the great (by anime movie standards) ticket sales of the first two movies, and the acquisition of Super...a lot of people seem to really just like the show because of the show itself now, and have moved on from the notion that Bruce Faulconer's score must be included.

*PS: I still feel old whenever I see posts on Kanzenshuu from people saying, "I grew up watching Kai on Nicktoons"...as somebody who was in college when Kai was airing on Nicktoons, I still can't quite get over how cool--and weird--that is.

I like Bruce Faulconer's score the BEST! I hate the Kai and DBZ Japan Score I watch then and there SOOOOO boarding... Bruce Faulconer's score Got you PUMP up for the fight scene there was a BUILD UP to it! Like with the Spirit Bomb Song love that song... Not to metion all the theme song he made for the people in the show... It wayyy better then any of the song in DBZ...

I think Funi now wants to be as accurate to source material as possible, so if for whatever odd and totally-never-happening reason Dragonball Z was to start airing again with their mediocre dub, they would probably use the original Japanese OST.

What makes it more "accurate", per se? Dragon Ball originated from a manga without sound, and not only that, Kai uses a different OST and I wouldn't say that is any less "accurate".

Same here... Manga and TV Anime are 2 different things... A Manga can make you heard music only in Anime it does that... There is no accurate to which you watch it in... But for me Bruce is the best I hate the Kai and DBZ Japan Song there sooo Boarding...

[Gokuisasuperhero]

I could see it going either way, and I think a big factor would be whether they could air the uncut version or if they had to air an edited version.

Several years ago when Nicktoons started airing GT, they had to use an edited version because, well, it was Nicktoons. If FUNimation was editing the show for the first time, I'm sure they probably would have gone with Tokunaga's score, but they already had an edited version on hand from when the show previously aired on Cartoon Network several years prior. That edited version happened to have Mark Menza's replacement score, so that's the score we heard. In other words, the audio and video masters that Nicktoons received from FUNimation only had one audio track and only one video track, which was the edited audio synced to the edited footage. To create an edited version with Tokunaga's score would mean re-editing the video from scratch, as well as digging up all the individual audio recordings of the edited dialogue (which they may not even have anymore) and re-syncing them to the newly edited footage...so to do all that just to have an edited version of GT with the original score would cost time and money that would only satisfy a small group of fans (most of whom already have the show uncut on home video anyway), which realistically would not be financially worthwhile.

Same deal with DBZ. There is no edited version with Kikuchi's score. The reason Cartoon Network was able to air the DBZ movies a few years ago on TV with Kikuchi's score was because they were airing the uncut versions, and thanks to the orange bricks, FUNimation did in fact have an uncut version on hand featuring Kikuchi's score. I guarantee you that if Cartoon Network asked for an edited version, we would have heard the Faulconer score since the only edited version of the show that FUNimation has features the Faulconer score.

So, all that to say, if the TV network in question could air the uncut version, there's a chance we'd hear either score, but if they wanted an edited version, we'd definitely hear only the Faulconer score.

Yeah did not thing of that... I hope that would be the case then but what would that do for the 1st 2 season that where redub then lol? Since I don't think an Edit Version made for and it had Johnson Score in it for the 1st 2 season?

[Bansho64]

Well, it's kind of a toss up here. On one hand, Toonami aired the movies a few years back with the original score instead of the replacement one. Whereas, also a few years back, they simply ripped the footage from Gohan kills Cell episode off of FUNi's DVD single and aired that.

Honestly, I'd bet on it being ripped off of the Orange Bricks with the replacement score. It'd be a shame though IMO. I'd rather they do it with the original soundtrack. But, should they go with the replacement score, I'd rather they just aired ripped footage from the DVD singles instead of the Orange Bricks.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

Well, it's kind of a toss up here. On one hand, Toonami aired the movies a few years back with the original score instead of the replacement one. Whereas, also a few years back, they simply ripped the footage from Gohan kills Cell episode off of FUNi's DVD single and aired that.

Honestly, I'd bet on it being ripped off of the Orange Bricks with the replacement score. It'd be a shame though IMO. I'd rather they do it with the original soundtrack. But, should they go with the replacement score, I'd rather they just aired ripped footage from the DVD singles instead of the Orange Bricks.

Toonami only airs uncut thing this day age. That why Ksai is not Edit like Nicktoons. But I rather then air Bruce Music as it wayyy better then Japan Songs. But as for the Apirl Fool Day that was the Bruce Music for Gohan killing Cell ep.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

I'd say that they would probably use their orange brick/Blu-ray (whichever) footage because that's what they're using on Funimation Now and what they used on Hulu. Those versions of the series also only had the original BGM, so I'm assuming that the Faulconer BGM is pretty much never going to be used on TV or streaming media again.

The orange brick/Blu-ray have the Bruce Score in it...

[Kojiro Sasaki]

(...) I'm not sure how the original anime's OST was designed, I heard it was made as an OST separately and not on a per scene basis (...)

That's why I asked my question (for the sake of further discussion):

By the way, did Faulconer team read the manga?

I don't know about Faulconer, but I can telly you that Kikuchi did read it. He wrote about this in the text he wrote for soundtrack release (or my translation is deceiving me).
You cannot be more accurate. I know for sure that three of the recording sessions were recorded for the movies, but the rest of them was made for the TV series (five). That's why the music in Dragon Ball fits so well. DBZ got 2 sessions for the series and 13 sessions for the movies.

[Gokuisasuperhero]

(...) I'm not sure how the original anime's OST was designed, I heard it was made as an OST separately and not on a per scene basis (...)

That's why I asked my question (for the sake of further discussion):

By the way, did Faulconer team read the manga?

I don't know about Faulconer, but I can telly you that Kikuchi did read it. He wrote about this in the text he wrote for soundtrack release (or my translation is deceiving me).
You cannot be more accurate. I know for sure that three of the recording sessions were recorded for the movies, but the rest of them was made for the TV series (five). That's why the music in Dragon Ball fits so well. DBZ got 2 sessions for the series and 13 sessions for the movies.

LMFAO you can't put music basic on manga any singer or music maker is going to iinterpret a comic book or in this case a manga much differently... But Bruce Songs fit perfectly with DBZ...