Kai vs. Z Dub

[ABED]

As someone who has grown more appreciative of the japanese score and liking Falcouner score for it's good points, I think it's possible to enjoy both, but saying falcouner only suits DBZ is definetly blinded by nostalgia.

I'm confused by your wording. Are you saying Faulconer's score also works with DB and GT?

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

As someone who has grown more appreciative of the japanese score and liking Falcouner score for it's good points, I think it's possible to enjoy both, but saying falcouner only suits DBZ is definetly blinded by nostalgia.

I'm confused by your wording. Are you saying Faulconer's score also works with DB and GT?

Ha Ha my bad for wording it weird. You know when you hear people say DB score works for DB but not for DBZ and Falcouner makes it better? I guess thats what I was trying to say.

[ABED]

I figured that's what you meant, but you never know.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Fair enough, this fandom can be a little crazy ha ha

[Kokonoe]

I came up with an example that I think is very illustrative about my points regarding objective standards in art - VHS versus Betamax. Both formats had their strengths and weaknesses. Betamax's picture and sound quality were objectively better and VHS had the advantage of recording length and price. Which format one prefers depends solely on the person's preferences and the weights they give to those attributes.

The problem with comparing stuff that involves numbers and machines, such as these two techs you stated (audio quality rate, video quality limitations), we're not actually comparing qualities that can only be interpreted one way, outside of script accuracy.

Considering one soundtrack more suited for whatever reason imaginable for a series like this is subjective, and considering the sound of the voices "better" or "worse" is subjective as it's really based on taste. Let's say me discussing Young's voice for Frieza earlier, to say Kai's variant is objectively better is inherently false.

For example, to say "Funi Kai Frieza is objectively better than Funi Frieza" is, in fact, no more than an opinion stated by yourself. You consider it "objective", but if I were to consider my opinion "objective", I could use similar arguments to why I think differently.

When it comes down to it, we can only make true factual judgments based on things that have a clear cut answer. Music style is not clear cut, the sound of someone's voice isn't, but the script differentiating it's message is factually changing the story to a degree.

[ABED]

Considering one soundtrack more suited for whatever reason imaginable for a series like this is subjective

Except that it's not true. Yes, there are many different ways do something right, but there are wrong answers. Faulconer's score doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the tone of the show and it often doesn't fit the feel or emotions the scenes were trying to convey.

For example, to say "Funi Kai Frieza is objectively better than Funi Frieza" is, in fact, no more than an opinion stated by yourself. You consider it "objective", but if I were to consider my opinion "objective", I could use similar arguments to why I think differently.

FUNi Frieza is objectively worse. He's a mishmash of animation and different characterization. It's not coherent. Whether you prefer it is a different question.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Considering one soundtrack more suited for whatever reason imaginable for a series like this is subjective

Except that it's not true. Yes, there are many different ways do something right, but there are wrong answers. Faulconer's score doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the tone of the show and it often doesn't fit the feel or emotions the scenes were trying to convey.

I would say Faulconer's Trunk's Story and Pikkon's Theme work quite well in the tone. Trunk's story adds to the meloncoly feel of the trunks part of the series. Pikkon's theme adds a bit of mysticism and rock to the fight where Pikkon takes out Cell and Freeza.

[Forte224]

Aw how did I miss this topic when it first started? Anyway, I hated, loathed, despised, etc. the Kai dub when I first heard it. I was convinced the OG Z dub was better in every way, and I watched TONS of YouTube comparisons to justify this. Then the blu rays for OG Z were released, and after watching a while, I realized something was wrong...this was bad voice acting. Forget accuracy, forget fitting the tone, forget all of that (though I do now care about that aspect). It's just not good voice acting. The actors were flat at best. Things of course piqued in the Boo arc (but it still wasn't good), and in my opinion regressed when they redubbed the first...68 episodes, right? And the music just seemed so off. That's when I went back and watched a scene from Kai I absolutely loathed over and over, Vegeta's onslaught on Recoome. All of the sudden, it sounded amazing. It's like someone had in a split second lifted the veil from my eyes From that point forward I bought all of Kai and have never looked back. Well...ok, I still look back at comparison videos but I'm on the total opposite side of the spectrum now.

Oh and since loving Kai, I decided to give the OG Japanese it's fair shot too, and now I love that! In fact I binged part 1 of Kai TFC today and then watched some of the same scenes in OG Japanese and man...the actors and soundtrack just nail it, it's my preferred way to watch now and I never thought I'd say that. Also TFC dub doesn't seem quite as accurate as Kai 1.0 dub did, but it's still great. I'm starting to jump all over the place, sorry. In conclusion, I don't fault people for liking the OG Z dub, but saying that it's of better quality than Kai or Japanese is just being silly

[Metalwario64]

TFC dub doesn't seem quite as accurate as Kai 1.0 dub did

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

[ABED]

Considering one soundtrack more suited for whatever reason imaginable for a series like this is subjective

Except that it's not true. Yes, there are many different ways do something right, but there are wrong answers. Faulconer's score doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the tone of the show and it often doesn't fit the feel or emotions the scenes were trying to convey.

I would say Faulconer's Trunk's Story and Pikkon's Theme work quite well in the tone. Trunk's story adds to the meloncoly feel of the trunks part of the series. Pikkon's theme adds a bit of mysticism and rock to the fight where Pikkon takes out Cell and Freeza.

Blind squirrel, broken clock, whatever other cliché you want...

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

I've watched Kai TFC dub with the subtitles on and it's accurate, but for some reason they still take quite a few liberties with the tournament announcer's dialog.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

TFC dub doesn't seem quite as accurate as Kai 1.0 dub did

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

What is exactly wrong with those? It is just a bit a fun.

[ABED]

TFC dub doesn't seem quite as accurate as Kai 1.0 dub did

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

What is exactly wrong with those? It is just a bit a fun.

It's those sort of elaborations the Kai dub was getting away from.

[Forte224]

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

What is exactly wrong with those? It is just a bit a fun.

It's those sort of elaborations the Kai dub was getting away from.

What bothered me was after Vegata kills Pui Pui and they all head down to the next layer, Gohan says "Almost feels like we're on a game show doesn't it?" And Vegeta responds "Ha, lame show more like it." Sounded so cheesy and not Vegeta like. Also when he referred to the fighting strategy against Dabura as watching out for his dangerous loogies or something of the like. It's like Sabats trying to have Vegeta incorporate more earth speech into his lines since Vegeta has been on earth for a while now, but it's getting close to taking too many liberties I think.

I've come to terms that the Super dub will have this type of stuff (quite a lot of it too) but Kai is supposed to specifically be accurately scripted for the people that want it to be accurately scripted. Oh well, it's not terrible anyway

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The only things that have really bothered me in TFC's dub so far is Trunks saying "owned", the tournament announcer said "Oh that line was terrible, who writes this stuff?!" and Bulma calling Vegeta her "hubby".

What is exactly wrong with those? It is just a bit a fun.

It's those sort of elaborations the Kai dub was getting away from.

But they were like this from the start, Kanzenshuu's own review of part one even comments on a exchange between Bulma and Krillin not being scripted in the original.

As long as they are not changing anything to convey something else, and as long as they aren't over done I don't see the problem.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Except that it's not true. Yes, there are many different ways do something right, but there are wrong answers. Faulconer's score doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the tone of the show and it often doesn't fit the feel or emotions the scenes were trying to convey.

I would say Faulconer's Trunk's Story and Pikkon's Theme work quite well in the tone. Trunk's story adds to the meloncoly feel of the trunks part of the series. Pikkon's theme adds a bit of mysticism and rock to the fight where Pikkon takes out Cell and Freeza.

Blind squirrel, broken clock, whatever other cliché you want...

I guess too each their own, while I personally find the Faulconer fits, I understand it's not for everybody.

[ABED]

As long as they are not changing anything to convey something else, and as long as they aren't over done I don't see the problem.
I don't think they should be done at all. They existed in some degree in Kai, but it feels like TFC is more lax. If I were to grade the scripts

Kai 1.0 - A+ to B
TFC - A- to B-

For some reason, the writers still love that "Waves and Rocks" Toei logo joke.

[Forte224]

As long as they are not changing anything to convey something else, and as long as they aren't over done I don't see the problem.
I don't think they should be done at all. They existed in some degree in Kai, but it feels like TFC is more lax. If I were to grade the scripts

Kai 1.0 - A+ to B
TFC - A- to B-

For some reason, the writers still love that "Waves and Rocks" Toei logo joke.

I'm a little confused by what you're saying. So basically you don't see the problem as long as what's being conveyed isn't changed, but at the same time you don't think it should be done at all? It sounds like you're saying two different things

[Theophrastus]

As long as they are not changing anything to convey something else, and as long as they aren't over done I don't see the problem.
I don't think they should be done at all. They existed in some degree in Kai, but it feels like TFC is more lax. If I were to grade the scripts

Kai 1.0 - A+ to B
TFC - A- to B-

For some reason, the writers still love that "Waves and Rocks" Toei logo joke.

I'm a little confused by what you're saying. So basically you don't see the problem as long as what's being conveyed isn't changed, but at the same time you don't think it should be done at all? It sounds like you're saying two different things

The first line is copy-pasted from Baggie_Saiyan's post. It's just not in a quote box for whatever reason.

[ABED]

What Theophrastus said. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.

[Forte224]

Oh got it, sorry I should've seen that. Thank you both