How do you define a good dub?

[8000 Saiyan]

It's because Anime Dubbing in our Native Language is almost none with a few kids anime dubs being exception but if we had the Japanese Audio as reference then it could have been way better and yes, no one scream like Wakamoto Does specially the anger Screams

Frankly, after watching so many anime shows in either English or Japanese, I don't give a damn if the English voice actors don't sound like the Japanese counterparts. I'd hate if every voice for Batman and Joker just imitated Conroy and Hamill.

The important thing is to capture the personality and tone of speaking,for example Chris Ayres doesn't Sound Exactly like Ryusei Nakao but he captures the Personality of Freeza perfectly in English

Well, that I can agree with.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Frankly, after watching so many anime shows in either English or Japanese, I don't give a damn if the English voice actors don't sound like the Japanese counterparts. I'd hate if every voice for Batman and Joker just imitated Conroy and Hamill.

The important thing is to capture the personality and tone of speaking,for example Chris Ayres doesn't Sound Exactly like Ryusei Nakao but he captures the Personality of Freeza perfectly in English

Well, that I can agree with.

This point highlights that different voices & types are cast for different interpretations & takes on different stories involving the characters. Having a well-composed, more somber Hulk, & using Rick Wasserman over Fred Tatasciore or Mark Gibbon, is different from having Rick do the brutal version of Hulk. With dubbing, the story is (hopefully) exactly the same, the only thing they're changing is language; while there's obvious interpretation with every translation in terms of dialogue...vocally a lot of the choices are already made, to suit specific versions of those characters that fit the particular story. I wouldnt normally expect Batman to sound like Rino Romano over Kevin Conroy or Bruce Greenwood, but that's a different take on the character so it's valid in that context. The voices are not cast arbitrarily - which can often be more the case when a dub or any production is outsourced from the actual creative staff. They may not understand the decisions behind the characters as well as the original directors, & might make mistakes with casting in that regard (Freeza as an obvious example).

People also associate certain voices with different characters; vocal quality & tone adds to characters in specific ways & I want that maintained beyond language. Solid Snake, for one example, is a character whose voice in the famous (because it's English) dub, is very different from the original, & he comes off much less suave I feel. Notably while I haven't played MGS2 or its dub, Raiden FWIH is portrayed as more of a flamboyant gay-stereotype, when originally he sounds more like a young Snake.

Also with that said, I think Ayres as Freeza is pretty much the sort of casting I'd want (although funny enough, they had JMT in mind too, more appropriate than Zarbon actually). If I really pay attention, I think Ryusei Nakao's deeper, but the point is, as that specific character, Ayres does a good job matching him. A lot of VAs play characters lower or higher than their normal voices, that's part of VA work. Ben Diskin does a great Rhino & just as beefy & intimidating as DiMaggio or Tatasciore or whoever. It's not so much about the *actor's* voice, but the *character's* voice that matters.

[8000 Saiyan]

The important thing is to capture the personality and tone of speaking,for example Chris Ayres doesn't Sound Exactly like Ryusei Nakao but he captures the Personality of Freeza perfectly in English

Well, that I can agree with.

This point highlights that different voices & types are cast for different interpretations & takes on different stories involving the characters. Having a well-composed, more somber Hulk, & using Rick Wasserman over Fred Tatasciore or Mark Gibbon, is different from having Rick do the brutal version of Hulk. With dubbing, the story is (hopefully) exactly the same, the only thing they're changing is language; while there's obvious interpretation with every translation in terms of dialogue...vocally a lot of the choices are already made, to suit specific versions of those characters that fit the particular story. I wouldnt normally expect Batman to sound like Rino Romano over Kevin Conroy or Bruce Greenwood, but that's a different take on the character so it's valid in that context. The voices are not cast arbitrarily - which can often be more the case when a dub or any production is outsourced from the actual creative staff. They may not understand the decisions behind the characters as well as the original directors, & might make mistakes with casting in that regard (Freeza as an obvious example).

People also associate certain voices with different characters; vocal quality & tone adds to characters in specific ways & I want that maintained beyond language. Solid Snake, for one example, is a character whose voice in the famous (because it's English) dub, is very different from the original, & he comes off much less suave I feel. Notably while I haven't played MGS2 or its dub, Raiden FWIH is portrayed as more of a flamboyant gay-stereotype, when originally he sounds more like a young Snake.

Also with that said, I think Ayres as Freeza is pretty much the sort of casting I'd want (although funny enough, they had JMT in mind too, more appropriate than Zarbon actually). If I really pay attention, I think Ryusei Nakao's deeper, but the point is, as that specific character, Ayres does a good job matching him. A lot of VAs play characters lower or higher than their normal voices, that's part of VA work. Ben Diskin does a great Rhino & just as beefy & intimidating as DiMaggio or Tatasciore or whoever. It's not so much about the *actor's* voice, but the *character's* voice that matters.

Was Tatum actually considered for Frieza? He would have been great, but I couldn't see any other actor in Funimation's talent pool doing a better job than Ayres. Tatum is a great Zarbon IMO, I don't see anything wrong with his performance. I've heard Ayres and Nakao several times, and I can assure you that Nakao is deeper.

I'll agree that Diskin is a great Rhino. The guy's range surprises me. Pity he didn't use one of his deeper voices for Venom.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Was Tatum actually considered for Frieza? He would have been great, but I couldn't see any other actor in Funimation's talent pool doing a better job than Ayres. Tatum is a great Zarbon IMO, I don't see anything wrong with his performance. I've heard Ayres and Nakao several times, and I can assure you that Nakao is deeper. I'll agree that Diskin is a great Rhino. The guy's range surprises me. Pity he didn't use one of his deeper voices for Venom.

My beef with Zarbon's portrayal in the dub is his faux-gay & effeminate features. His long hair in a ponytail doesnt mean he is gay; IIRC in the Japanese version there was no such signifier or any sort of effeminate attitude. I think it's worth throwing in there that JMT IRL is actually gay, btw; call it conspiracy but I figure that's part of the casting. I think Kirbopher on one of his vlogs/podcasts with VegettoEX mentioned discussing the casting of Freeza in the Kai dub at a con back in the day. I like the idea of Tatum, would've liked to hear his take. But I do agree with you.

As for Venom, that's another lession in how choices of a director inform the portrayal of a character. Greg Weisman I think wanted it to sound more "alien" & less "monster" (I'm paraphrasing here); they did a similar thing with Steve Blum as Darkseid & people hated that too.

[ABED]

My beef with Zarbon's portrayal in the dub is his faux-gay & effeminate features. His long hair in a ponytail doesnt mean he is gay; IIRC in the Japanese version there was no such signifier or any sort of effeminate attitude.

But he's certainly vain, which is also there in that performance. I see nothing wrong with characterizing Zarbon as both.

[8000 Saiyan]

Was Tatum actually considered for Frieza? He would have been great, but I couldn't see any other actor in Funimation's talent pool doing a better job than Ayres. Tatum is a great Zarbon IMO, I don't see anything wrong with his performance. I've heard Ayres and Nakao several times, and I can assure you that Nakao is deeper. I'll agree that Diskin is a great Rhino. The guy's range surprises me. Pity he didn't use one of his deeper voices for Venom.

My beef with Zarbon's portrayal in the dub is his faux-gay & effeminate features. His long hair in a ponytail doesnt mean he is gay; IIRC in the Japanese version there was no such signifier or any sort of effeminate attitude. I think it's worth throwing in there that JMT IRL is actually gay, btw; call it conspiracy but I figure that's part of the casting. I think Kirbopher on one of his vlogs/podcasts with VegettoEX mentioned discussing the casting of Freeza in the Kai dub at a con back in the day. I like the idea of Tatum, would've liked to hear his take. But I do agree with you.

As for Venom, that's another lession in how choices of a director inform the portrayal of a character. Greg Weisman I think wanted it to sound more "alien" & less "monster" (I'm paraphrasing here); they did a similar thing with Steve Blum as Darkseid & people hated that too.

I really doubt that they cast Tatum as Zarbon because he was gay. They probably heard his audition, and thought: "Hey, he sounds good for this character. Let's cast him in the role."

If I were Weisman, I'd have wanted Venom to sound more monster-like. Most of the voices for Venom sound generic to me, with the exception of Daran Norris. I don't know if you've heard his take, but it's awesome. It's the voice I always hear for Venom when I read a Spider-Man comic, well, from the 616/regular Marvel universe. Personally, I want Venom to have a deeper voice while Carnage has a lighter voice, even if the latter is stronger than the former.

As for Blum's Darkseid, I've got to say it's not a good performance. Much like the majority of the New 52 voices, his Darkseid voice just sounds... bland. I've got to say Fred Tatasciore's Killer Croc is great though.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I really doubt that they cast Tatum as Zarbon because he was gay. They probably heard his audition, and thought: "Hey, he sounds good for this character. Let's cast him in the role."

You'd be surprised. They gave that stereotypical exaggerated Afro-American accent for a random black character. Plus, Zarbon's "effeminate" characterization is something they wholly invented themselves. On the other stuff, I largely agree; but, while I like discussing & making cross-cultural comparisons but I don't want to derail a thread. On BTVA or something it'd probably be far more appropriate.

[Ripper 30]

I really doubt that they cast Tatum as Zarbon because he was gay. They probably heard his audition, and thought: "Hey, he sounds good for this character. Let's cast him in the role."

You'd be surprised. They gave that stereotypical exaggerated Afro-American accent for a random black character. Plus, Zarbon's "effeminate" characterization is something they wholly invented themselves. On the other stuff, I largely agree; but, while I like discussing & making cross-cultural comparisons but I don't want to derail a thread. On BTVA or something it'd probably be far more appropriate.

Zarbon in Japanese Version Sounds like a True Badass in Z Japanese with the Kind of Voice Sho Hayami Gave him and also, in Kai Japanese he sounded Normal with the new voice he got of Hiroaki Miura, but the voice that Sabat Gave him in Effeminate voice and really a bad casting in my opinion but Kai Voice for him in Dub was good

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Snip

I disagree, the only reason people say Peter Kalemis is the best Goku is solely for his one scream for "Kaioken" where he sounds exactly like Nozowa but his talking voice was horrible. You can't really determine if you can translate that same pitch to Goku's voice for English ears, because Japanese characters tend to generally have a higher register for the voices they deem appealing, but its not a natural pitch we hear in the west. Sean's voice among all Goku's dub VAs is what see as the closest to that, without sounding unnatural. (Unlike Stephanie Sheh's Usagi voice).

You're also blurring the quality of writing, and character traits with delivery, just because the old dub had terrible dialogue in the Namek arc particularly, doesn't correlate with delivery if the lines are skewed for an alienated tone from what the original scene was written for. Most of Goku's dialogue in the dub is written to be assertive and straight-forward (ignoring the more exaggerated inserts like the "Hope of the Universe/Destroy my world" lines, though your rant is based mainly on parallel characterizations that completely differ. Its also hard to say if Goku's bumpkin speaking would translate over very well either, not unless we can accept Goku with a Texan accent. That would only further erase the relevance to Goku's East Asian motifs from his character to the audience. What Sean does is as much as I would expect to hear by interpretation. Though granted, Japanese dubs of American shows tend to capture the cultural transition somewhat better.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I love Stephanie Sheh's Usagi AND Sean as Goku, you dont need to put her down like that.

[Ripper 30]

Snip

I disagree, the only reason people say Peter Kalemis is the best Goku is solely for his one scream for "Kaioken" where he sounds exactly like Nozowa but his talking voice was horrible. You can't really determine if you can translate that same pitch to Goku's voice for English ears, because Japanese characters tend to generally have a higher register for the voices they deem appealing, but its not a natural pitch we hear in the west. Sean's voice among all Goku's dub VAs is what see as the closest to that, without sounding unnatural. (Unlike Stephanie Sheh's Usagi voice).

You're also blurring the quality of writing, and character traits with delivery, just because the old dub had terrible dialogue in the Namek arc particularly, doesn't correlate with delivery if the lines are skewed for an alienated tone from what the original scene was written for. Most of Goku's dialogue in the dub is written to be assertive and straight-forward (ignoring the more exaggerated inserts like the "Hope of the Universe/Destroy my world" lines, though your rant is based mainly on parallel characterizations that completely differ. Its also hard to say if Goku's bumpkin speaking would translate over very well either, not unless we can accept Goku with a Texan accent. That would only further erase the relevance to Goku's East Asian motifs from his character to the audience. What Sean does is as much as I would expect to hear by interpretation. Though granted, Japanese dubs of American shows tend to capture the cultural transition somewhat better.

Yes I agree Peter's performance in Whole DBZ Dub till Cell Arc wasn't very good but his performance in the Dub of 3 Uncut Movies was great and it's just that his natural Speaking Voice is not too manly or Macho or Superman Type same with Ian Corllet or Tfs Goku but Sean voice is just too deep for goku type of character, it's the best voice for a superhero but in my opinion goku isn't as clueless or Dumb in Dub with Sean's Voice as much he is with Nozawa's Voice though Sean is great at power up screams but it just feels so forced at times when he tries to make Goku sound silly like in the latest Super dub Episode where he says "I forgot my tractor" that line may sound funny but all I heard in that line was Sean Schemmel not Goku because he used his normal speaking voice in it and his voice is really cool for a badass Superhero but in my opinion not really the ideal casting for goku, that would be MasakoX Currently

[TheGreatness25]

To me, a "good dub" is just one that adapts the story and lets you know what's going on in an accurate way. I don't care about line changes to simplify them or adapt them for our language. Changing something like "This is awesome!" into something like "Oh yeah!" does not bother me because the message is that the character thinks positively about something. I'm very relaxed on dubs. I don't care if the voices sound like the Japanese ones (because that's impossible). And yeah, keeping the original music does further the feel of the story.

No dub will ever 100% be accurate to the original, and that's fine. It's fine mostly because everyone is kind of aware that no dub will ever replace the original.

[SaintEvolution]

Snip

I disagree, the only reason people say Peter Kalemis is the best Goku is solely for his one scream for "Kaioken" where he sounds exactly like Nozowa but his talking voice was horrible. You can't really determine if you can translate that same pitch to Goku's voice for English ears, because Japanese characters tend to generally have a higher register for the voices they deem appealing, but its not a natural pitch we hear in the west. Sean's voice among all Goku's dub VAs is what see as the closest to that, without sounding unnatural. (Unlike Stephanie Sheh's Usagi voice).

Uhhh no. At least in the Pionner dub of the first 3 movies, Kelamis' talking is good too. In the Ocean TV dub he sounded more forced with a super-hero wannabe interpretation many times, but in the movies he was very good.

However, I think that in the nowdays, Sean really surpassed it. He grew a lot on the character.

[jjgp1112]

It's simple to me - good voice acting and an accurate script that flows naturally. Spiced up jokes or more colorful dialogue is fine to me as long as it retains the general details of the original script and doesn't contradict specific characterizations. There's obviously gonna be some cases where a line or a joke has no perfect English equivalent so as long as they make a suitable replacement that gets the gist of it, that's fine. I also don't care if the voices match the original Japanese cast, just as long as they get the character right (although cases where they pull off an excellent 1:1 adaptation of the Japanese voices, such as with Beerus & Whis or Ayres' Frieza, are certainly a bonus!).

As far as names and terminology...that's a crapshoot lol. I pretty much follow the rule of cool with that.

[Ripper 30]

Snip

I disagree, the only reason people say Peter Kalemis is the best Goku is solely for his one scream for "Kaioken" where he sounds exactly like Nozowa but his talking voice was horrible. You can't really determine if you can translate that same pitch to Goku's voice for English ears, because Japanese characters tend to generally have a higher register for the voices they deem appealing, but its not a natural pitch we hear in the west. Sean's voice among all Goku's dub VAs is what see as the closest to that, without sounding unnatural. (Unlike Stephanie Sheh's Usagi voice).

Uhhh no. At least in the Pionner dub of the first 3 movies, Kelamis' talking is good too. In the Ocean TV dub he sounded more forced with a super-hero wannabe interpretation many times, but in the movies he was very good.

However, I think that in the nowdays, Sean really surpassed it. He grew a lot on the character.

Yes that's what I think his Performance in DBZ Dub wasn't that Special but In Uncut 3 Movies Dubs was good

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Yes I agree Peter's performance in Whole DBZ Dub till Cell Arc wasn't very good but his performance in the Dub of 3 Uncut Movies was great and it's just that his natural Speaking Voice is not too manly or Macho or Superman Type same with Ian Corlet or Tfs Goku but Sean voice is just too deep for goku type of character, it's the best voice for a superhero but in my opinion goku isn't as clueless or Dumb in Dub with Sean's Voice as much he is with Nozawa's Voice though Sean is great at power up screams but it just feels so forced at times when he tries to make Goku sound silly like in the latest Super dub Episode where he says "I forgot my tractor" that line may sound funny but all I heard in that line was Sean Schemmel not Goku because he used his normal speaking voice in it and his voice is really cool for a badass Superhero but in my opinion not really the ideal casting for goku, that would be MasakoX Currently

Well it might be unfair for me to say that Peter Kalemis couldn't have been a good Goku if he was directed better. Him and Ian Corlett had something there that could have worked, it was just never captured. I do agree that the "I forgot my tractor" line did sound weird when I heard it; like he was off character in that scene. So I get what you're saying. Funimation gives people the superhero Goku (which I do have guilty pleasure for) but not the ideal Goku that Toriyama portrayed. The Superhero marketing of him is the biggest hindrance because all his VA are cast for that overlapping sound, rather than for the personality he has.

[Ripper 30]

Yes I agree Peter's performance in Whole DBZ Dub till Cell Arc wasn't very good but his performance in the Dub of 3 Uncut Movies was great and it's just that his natural Speaking Voice is not too manly or Macho or Superman Type same with Ian Corlet or Tfs Goku but Sean voice is just too deep for goku type of character, it's the best voice for a superhero but in my opinion goku isn't as clueless or Dumb in Dub with Sean's Voice as much he is with Nozawa's Voice though Sean is great at power up screams but it just feels so forced at times when he tries to make Goku sound silly like in the latest Super dub Episode where he says "I forgot my tractor" that line may sound funny but all I heard in that line was Sean Schemmel not Goku because he used his normal speaking voice in it and his voice is really cool for a badass Superhero but in my opinion not really the ideal casting for goku, that would be MasakoX Currently

Well it might be unfair for me to say that Peter Kalemis couldn't have been a good Goku if he was directed better. Him and Ian Corlett had something there that could have worked, it was just never captured. I do agree that the "I forgot my tractor" line did sound weird when I heard it; like he was off character in that scene. So I get what you're saying. Funimation gives people the superhero Goku (which I do have guilty pleasure for) but not the ideal Goku that Toriyama portrayed. The Superhero marketing of him is the biggest hindrance because all his VA are cast for that overlapping sound, rather than for the personality he has.

Its just that with Sean Schemmel Voice he seems like a smart guy with intellect who happens to be Naive at the same type and more like superhero and at times he acts like a buffoon, it's just that for the humour part it doesn't seem as natural or even when goku has to act silly, in Japanese Version he comes off as literal hick who doesn't know much other than fighting but in dub it comes off like a cool superhero dad who happens to have a sense of humour as well, I think MasakoX Take on Silly goku is much better than Sean's and less forced too same with first 2 Ocean Dub Gokus as they sounded more care free when needed to but Sean goes back and forth from a generic Superhero Tough guy to over the top goofy guy

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Its just that with Sean Schemmel Voice he seems like a smart guy with intellect who happens to be Naive at the same type and more like superhero and at times he acts like a buffoon, it's just that for the humour part it doesn't seem as natural or even when goku has to act silly, in Japanese Version he comes off as literal hick who doesn't know much other than fighting but in dub it comes off like a cool superhero dad who happens to have a sense of humour as well, I think MasakoX Take on Silly goku is much better than Sean's and less forced too same with first 2 Ocean Dub Gokus as they sounded more care free when needed to but Sean goes back and forth from a generic Superhero Tough guy to over the top goofy guy

To be honest I prefer Sean's interpretation if thats what he tamed it down to. The smart, cocky but naive Goku as opposed to the illiterate, conceited, random Goku. Again, maybe it wouldn't translate well to a western audience to make Goku completely oblivious, and unintelligent because to my taste it makes it seem as if Goku holds back the tension by never taking things seriously. That Goku would probably get annoying. Where as Goku in the subs gets the pass more so because of the language barrier. You read the situation as opposed to sitting through it being presented in a way where you are forced to question it while its presented. I mean even by Super's standards Goku being reduced to literally just nothing but "I want to fight" all day takes away the likability applied to him from Sean's more balanced representation of him. That could again be cultural, because as much as people hate Goku in Super. I think that hints at it a bit. Goku would end up being as irritating Ash Ketchum is, if he was just portrayed as a moron all the time.

[Ripper 30]

Its just that with Sean Schemmel Voice he seems like a smart guy with intellect who happens to be Naive at the same type and more like superhero and at times he acts like a buffoon, it's just that for the humour part it doesn't seem as natural or even when goku has to act silly, in Japanese Version he comes off as literal hick who doesn't know much other than fighting but in dub it comes off like a cool superhero dad who happens to have a sense of humour as well, I think MasakoX Take on Silly goku is much better than Sean's and less forced too same with first 2 Ocean Dub Gokus as they sounded more care free when needed to but Sean goes back and forth from a generic Superhero Tough guy to over the top goofy guy

To be honest I prefer Sean's interpretation if thats what he tamed it down to. The smart, cocky but naive Goku as opposed to the illiterate, conceited, random Goku. Again, maybe it wouldn't translate well to a western audience to make Goku completely oblivious, and unintelligent because to my taste it makes it seem as if Goku holds back the tension by never taking things seriously. That Goku would probably get annoying. Where as Goku in the subs gets the pass more so because of the language barrier. You read the situation as opposed to sitting through it being presented in a way where you are forced to question it while its presented. I mean even by Super's standards Goku being reduced to literally just nothing but "I want to fight" all day takes away the likability applied to him from Sean's more balanced representation of him. That could again be cultural, because as much as people hate Goku in Super. I think that hints at it a bit. Goku would end up being as irritating Ash Ketchum is, if he was just portrayed as a moron all the time.

It's just that the writers of Super didn't really understood goku and making him more dumb like in that episode where he fights with beerus disguised as Monaca but I mainly like the Character and Personality of Goku in DB, DBZ and DBGT (all in Japanese Version)

[Vorige Waffe]

A good dub has actors cast for parts their voices would fit best for, a re-write of the script that sounds natural to English speakers (and this being Dragon Ball, yes, some of those names need to be romanized that are easily prounoucable, no one in Peoria is going to able to understand a name like KU-RI-RIN with all those rolled "R" sounds), and is shepherded by a capable ADR director (i.e. going in for the best take on important scenes of the show, making sure certain actors have a good chemistry together, etc).

Simple as that.