What If: Toriyama Retired?

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What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by cheddarsword » Sat May 20, 2017 1:33 am

I've been wondering as of late, what will happen to things when the ones creating them leave? It started for me with Nintendo. What if Shigeru Miyamoto stepped down and let someone else take over Mario? He's more or less already done this with Zelda, and the series appears to be in good hands.

But what about Dragon Ball? What if Toriyama retires?

Dragon Ball is way to much of a cash cow to just let sit. Surely Toei would find some way to keep making new series. Video games are easy enough, and are better when created with new material that continues to come out.

But is there anyone that the fans would trust the series with?

Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps it's time that Shigeru Miyamoto step down. After the mess that was Star Fox Zero and with the move toward mobile gaming (an idea that I despise) among other things, I personally feel that his time is up.

And I think some fans feel the same way about Toriyama. I'm beginning to. He still has good ideas, but the execution is beginning to falter. And then there's the mess that he caused by making Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball MInus.

What will happen if he steps down and is it maybe time that he does?

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat May 20, 2017 1:55 am

When Toriyama steps down, Dragon Ball will go on. Even if the anime were to stop (it probably wouldn't, it'd just get a new subtitle), video games would keep coming. The Heroes manga and SD would keep going. Fans would still be here. Toyotaro would either be let go or reassigned to a new project. I think the series' popularity is basically unaffected by Toriyama at this point. His stories are simpler than ever. Most, or at least many, don't think his artwork is very fitting of the series' spirit anymore. Toriyama is more of an ideal than an essential element nowadays. I'll probably stop keeping up with the new material once Toriyama stops, if for no other reason than I have to draw the line somewhere, and that would be the least arbitrary cutoff. Overall, we'd miss his contribution, but not much would change.
Retired.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Vijay » Sat May 20, 2017 2:15 am

If AT retires, we RIOT!!!

Frankly, tired of Super. In fact, I'd prefer Togashi/Oda to take over.

Their artsyle may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I honestly want a "fresh" take on DB. Frm a different perspective, but core spirit is intact.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Cipher » Sat May 20, 2017 2:18 am

I would actually stop watching Super.

I'm jumping off the ongoing Dragon Ball train when Toriyama does. That isn't a promise or a threat. It's just going to happen.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Ki Breaker » Sat May 20, 2017 2:36 am

Cipher wrote:I would actually stop watching Super.

I'm jumping off the ongoing Dragon Ball train when Toriyama does. That isn't a promise or a threat. It's just going to happen.
These are my thoughts on the subject as well..
Toriyama goes and the charm which makes db goes, no point continuing further, I had to eventually stop somewhere anyway so why not here, it's a pretty natural way to let it go
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by precita » Sat May 20, 2017 3:36 am

Everything that happens in Heroes or the videogames becomes canon, and good god is most of that stuff bad. Super is toeing the fine line between feeling like fanfiction and official material, once Toriyama goes that's it.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Kendamu » Sat May 20, 2017 4:35 am

I mean, he kinda did retire back in 1995 or so. He didn't contribute much toward anything that came out after that all the way up until he exercised some creative control over Battle of Gods. During those years, I mostly just enjoyed what already existed and read his occasional one-shots that came up.

Life will go on. His body of work and his contributions will still exist for me to enjoy. Hopefully whoever starts making the big decisions is good.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Boo Machine » Sat May 20, 2017 4:42 am

If whatever comes after Toriyamas retirement is any good, then I'll probably still watch it. I would have no reason not to. I watch what I like regardless of who is working on what, it's that simple.

If I don't like what comes after, then I stop following it like I've done with every other series/Franchise that goes on forever and I've lost interest in. I like other things besides Dragonball like mostly everyone else. Though since this is dragonball I'd probably still check what's going on every now and again, because this series has taken root inside of my skull like a parasite.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Cipher » Sat May 20, 2017 5:10 am

To pre-empt any questions/expand on my earlier post, my reasons for dropping off would be both quality-based and principal-based:

Quality-wise, while I'm less than hot on Super, my misgivings with it stem entirely from elements we know to be under Toei's control, including direction and episodic scripting, rather than under Toriyama's, whose ideas and plot points I've been rather pleased with creatively, outside of the fact that the series is hamstrung as a full-blown sequel by being inserted into the timeline of the original story. In addition, while haven't enjoyed Toei's scripts for Super on the whole, Toriyama's last three writing projects—Jaco, Battle of Gods, and Resurrection "F"—have all been varying levels of enjoyable to me. I think we're unlikely to see anyone treat the series with the simultaneous level of irreverence and sincerity he has, and I believe those elements essential for its success.

Principal-wise, nothing about Dragon Ball indicates it should be a continuous fictional world. It isn't a malleable high concept a la, say, a Western superhero book. It's all borrowed tropes made iconic and memorable through the sensibilities and skills of the series' author. While I've enjoyed some non-Toriyama contributions to the series over the years, I have no desire to see it continue ad infinitum without him. Part of the series' appeal under Toriyama, at least pre-Super, was also that it always progressed, sometimes, gloriously, against the will of his editors. For being such a silly world, it always pushed forward sincerely. That element is antithetical to the state of continuous fiction. Continued Toriyama-less Dragon Ball would represent a level of both pointlessness and creative bankruptcy I'm not interested in supporting.

I'd love to see Toriyama keep producing new work. I don't need more Dragon Ball. It isn't as dear to me as the sensibilities behind it.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 20, 2017 8:36 am

cheddarsword wrote:I've been wondering as of late, what will happen to things when the ones creating them leave? It started for me with Nintendo. What if Shigeru Miyamoto stepped down and let someone else take over Mario? He's more or less already done this with Zelda, and the series appears to be in good hands.

But what about Dragon Ball? What if Toriyama retires?

Dragon Ball is way to much of a cash cow to just let sit. Surely Toei would find some way to keep making new series. Video games are easy enough, and are better when created with new material that continues to come out.

But is there anyone that the fans would trust the series with?

Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps it's time that Shigeru Miyamoto step down. After the mess that was Star Fox Zero and with the move toward mobile gaming (an idea that I despise) among other things, I personally feel that his time is up.

And I think some fans feel the same way about Toriyama. I'm beginning to. He still has good ideas, but the execution is beginning to falter. And then there's the mess that he caused by making Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball MInus.

What will happen if he steps down and is it maybe time that he does?
What mess is that exactly? A fun humorous manga with Toriyama at his best and a too short to be anything, inoffensive bonus chapter that fans took way too seriously and to this day can't stop talking about how much they hate it. I fail to see what issues he created with these, it seems the issues stem more from the fans themselves than the actual material.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by cheddarsword » Sat May 20, 2017 8:49 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
cheddarsword wrote:I've been wondering as of late, what will happen to things when the ones creating them leave? It started for me with Nintendo. What if Shigeru Miyamoto stepped down and let someone else take over Mario? He's more or less already done this with Zelda, and the series appears to be in good hands.

But what about Dragon Ball? What if Toriyama retires?

Dragon Ball is way to much of a cash cow to just let sit. Surely Toei would find some way to keep making new series. Video games are easy enough, and are better when created with new material that continues to come out.

But is there anyone that the fans would trust the series with?

Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps it's time that Shigeru Miyamoto step down. After the mess that was Star Fox Zero and with the move toward mobile gaming (an idea that I despise) among other things, I personally feel that his time is up.

And I think some fans feel the same way about Toriyama. I'm beginning to. He still has good ideas, but the execution is beginning to falter. And then there's the mess that he caused by making Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball MInus.

What will happen if he steps down and is it maybe time that he does?
What mess is that exactly? A fun humorous manga with Toriyama at his best and a too short to be anything, inoffensive bonus chapter that fans took way too seriously and to this day can't stop talking about how much they hate it. I fail to see what issues he created with these, it seems the issues stem more from the fans themselves than the actual material.
If something doesn't sit well with the fans, then does that not make it a problem? Seriously, if the fans are taken out of the equation, then the series itself is pointless.

Take the Black Rock Shooter series for instance. It's story is all over the place. What is the one thing that the fans stick around for? The action. Remove that, and you remove the fan base for the most part. But other than that, what would be wrong with doing so?

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat May 20, 2017 8:53 am

Dragon Ball would continue even if Toriyama retired. It's the same thing with most comic book creators. When they stopped writing and drawing the characters they created, the characters continued to exist.
Last edited by 8000 Saiyan on Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Kanassa » Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 am

Dragon Ball would continue and I'd still be watching it.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 20, 2017 9:01 am

cheddarsword wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
cheddarsword wrote:I've been wondering as of late, what will happen to things when the ones creating them leave? It started for me with Nintendo. What if Shigeru Miyamoto stepped down and let someone else take over Mario? He's more or less already done this with Zelda, and the series appears to be in good hands.

But what about Dragon Ball? What if Toriyama retires?

Dragon Ball is way to much of a cash cow to just let sit. Surely Toei would find some way to keep making new series. Video games are easy enough, and are better when created with new material that continues to come out.

But is there anyone that the fans would trust the series with?

Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps it's time that Shigeru Miyamoto step down. After the mess that was Star Fox Zero and with the move toward mobile gaming (an idea that I despise) among other things, I personally feel that his time is up.

And I think some fans feel the same way about Toriyama. I'm beginning to. He still has good ideas, but the execution is beginning to falter. And then there's the mess that he caused by making Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball MInus.

What will happen if he steps down and is it maybe time that he does?
What mess is that exactly? A fun humorous manga with Toriyama at his best and a too short to be anything, inoffensive bonus chapter that fans took way too seriously and to this day can't stop talking about how much they hate it. I fail to see what issues he created with these, it seems the issues stem more from the fans themselves than the actual material.
If something doesn't sit well with the fans, then does that not make it a problem? Seriously, if the fans are taken out of the equation, then the series itself is pointless.

Take the Black Rock Shooter series for instance. It's story is all over the place. What is the one thing that the fans stick around for? The action. Remove that, and you remove the fan base for the most part. But other than that, what would be wrong with doing so?
Tonnes of things in the original Manga and series don't sit well with fans it is all the same in modern DB the only difference being that now fans can freely accept or reject anything from modern DB so again not seeing the mess Toriyama created with Jaco and Minus, he is not forcing fans to read these as part of the original Manga/series that is up to them.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat May 20, 2017 9:13 am

It would be the same as when GT aired in 1996, for better or worse the series would continue. I'd also still buy any new material we get.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by SansrivaaL » Sat May 20, 2017 9:22 am

I'd probably still watch it (?) but not as passionate as when Toriyama was involved, like say for example I'm excited about how this arc will end and the basic plot points because its AT's idea, once he retires and Toyo or someone in Toei handles it I wouldnt care about what happens anymore, if they still keep Goku and Vegeta I may still watch it (tho I'd prefer them not using Goku anymore, for me Goku is Toriyama's masterpiece, anyone other than him using Goku is a big NO) but I wouldnt expect anything from it, if they start with a new gen with a new Goku lookalike or Oob then byebye, thats where I draw the line.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat May 20, 2017 9:45 am

I'll keep watching as long as it's enjoyable. Toriyama being involved or not makes no difference to me.

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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Chuquita » Sat May 20, 2017 10:17 am

I don't entirely trust Toei anymore, so it's possible I'll jump ship when Toriyama does, but more likely I'll jump ship once Gokû and Vegeta are replaced by the next gen or by DBH characters.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sat May 20, 2017 10:56 am

Then that's it for DB canon as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: What If: Toriyama Retired?

Post by Big Green The Yoshi » Sat May 20, 2017 11:22 am

To be honest, he pretty much has. Toei just won't leave him alone about Super, however.

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