Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

[ABED]

Wasn't "Bulma" written on her shirt in her first appearance?

Heh. Read my post again.

I'm talking about in the manga

[Gaffer Tape]

Wasn't "Bulma" written on her shirt in her first appearance?

Heh. Read my post again.

I'm talking about in the manga

Again, read his post again.

[ABED]

Heh. Read my post again.

I'm talking about in the manga

Again, read his post again.

What am I missing. He wrote "staff". Toriyama wrote and drew the manga.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm talking about in the manga

Again, read his post again.

What am I missing. He wrote "staff". Toriyama wrote and drew the manga.

""Bloomer" goes into Japanese as BURUMA, which was incorrectly rendered as Bulma on her shirt in chapter 1/episode 1." Emphasis mine.

[ABED]

Again, read his post again.

What am I missing. He wrote "staff". Toriyama wrote and drew the manga.

""Bloomer" goes into Japanese as BURUMA, which was incorrectly rendered as Bulma on her shirt in chapter 1/episode 1." Emphasis mine.

But it was written/drawn by Toriyama, so if it's a mistake, it doesn't matter.

[Gaffer Tape]

What am I missing. He wrote "staff". Toriyama wrote and drew the manga.

""Bloomer" goes into Japanese as BURUMA, which was incorrectly rendered as Bulma on her shirt in chapter 1/episode 1." Emphasis mine.

But it was written/drawn by Toriyama, so if it's a mistake, it doesn't matter.

Rebuttal 1: So which of these isn't a mistake? Kulilin? Kuririn? They were both written by Toriyama on Kuririn's clothes in the manga. Do you refer to the fat guy as Yajirove? Toriyama did. Do you refer to the criminal organization as Red Ribon? Toriyama did. The Artificial Humans who ravaged Trunks's timeline were NOT #19 and #20? Because Toriyama said so. To imply that the creator can't make any mistake, especially when he's writing in a language he's not fluent in, is quite a reach in logic.

Rebuttal 2: Toriyama himself has seemingly realized his own mistake because in recent years, he has drawn her name on her clothes, on at least one occasion, as "Bloomer" (or possibly "Bloomers"... she's turned at an angle, so it's hard to see that side clearly). So which one isn't the mistake?

[ABED]

How do you know it's a mistake?

[Gaffer Tape]

How do you know it's a mistake?

How do I know what's a mistake? I said a lot in that post, my point of which was, funnily enough, "What makes you say it's NOT a mistake?"

[ABED]

When translating to a language like English doesn't Japanese lend itself to multiple spellings?

And if 19 and 20 were corrected, where was Bulma corrected?

[Gaffer Tape]

When translating to a language like English doesn't Japanese lend itself to multiple spellings?

And if 19 and 20 were corrected, where was Bulma corrected?

Sometimes it does. How do we know what's "correct"? Pattern recognition. Why do we render Ta-re-su as Tullece? Because we know Saiyan names follow the pattern of vegetables and recognize that that Ta-re-su is the Japanese equivalent of an anagram of lettuce. Does Ta-re-su lend itself to other English spellings like Tales or Taurus or maybe even Turles? Yeah, sure. We've seen all of those. But none of those capture what the name is intended to mean. They're all reasonably "correct" based on transcribing Japanese sounds into English, but they all mangle the meaning.

So the pattern for Bu-ru-ma? I doubt I need to tell you the pattern of her entire family is named for undergarments. And they aren't obscured either. They aren't some crazy anagrams like Tullece or Reacoom or have sounds added to them like Kakarrott(o). We don't call her dad Bulief. We don't call her son Tolanks. And we don't call her daughter Bulla (seriously, we don't!). They are straight up the Japanese equivalent of those English words. So what logic is there in Bu-ru-ma being the only one whose pun is obscured so much as to be rendered completely unintelligible, especially when her name in Japanese is not obscured in such a way? Nobody who reads the series in Japanese is going, "Oh... her name is vaguely like the word bloomers but very heavily obscured to the point that I would never recognize it if someone didn't tell me what the pun source was." They're looking at it and going, "Oh, obviously. Bloomers. No wonder she's so embarrassed by her name." Goku laughing at her name is a joke that doesn't have to be explained or elaborated on in Japanese because the joke is obvious.

Personally, I use "Blooma" because bu-ru-ma lacks the elongated ending vowel typically associated with -er endings (as opposed to bu-ru-ma-a, which is a common spelling of it in Japanese), similar to how fu-ri-i-za becomes Freeza instead of Freezer (freezer being fu-ri-i-za-a). But I have seen some renderings of bloomers as bu-ru-ma, so I have no problem with "Bloomer" being a name for her, especially since it's even more consistent with the rest of her family.

Oh, and where was it corrected? Here:



This is a portion of an image Toriyama drew for New Year's 2015. Did Toriyama forget he used to write it as "Bulma"? Maybe. Did someone smack him upside the head at some point between the '90s and now and tell him, "Look. Bulma is not even close to how that word is spelled in English"? Also maybe. But the fact of the matter is, he certainly seems aware of the word now.

[Robo4900]

When translating to a language like English doesn't Japanese lend itself to multiple spellings?

Yes, it does. Trunks's name could be rendered as Tolunkusu, Trunksu, Torungks, Tlungkus, or anything in-between. But Trunks is how we render it, because that is the English word his name is based on. Similarly, Bulma could be rendered as Buruma, Burma, Blooma, Broomer, or anything between. Blooma or Bloomer should be what her name is in English, as that's the English word her name comes from, but Funimation and Viz both elected to just go with the writing on her shirt instead of rendering her name properly.

How do you know it's a mistake?

How do I know what's a mistake? I said a lot in that post, my point of which was, funnily enough, "What makes you say it's NOT a mistake?"

It's not necessarily a mistake so far as the spelling in English was totally irrelevant to Toriyama's Japanese audience in 1984, and similarly it was totally irrelevant to Toei's Japanese audience in 1986, so both just stuck with whatever arbitrary spelling and didn't think about it. It arguably becomes a mistake in hindsight when it comes to translating it for an English audience, but it's not something Toei or Toriyama are/were ever particularly bothered by, and as evidenced by the screenshot above, and the inconsistent spellings elsewhere(Gokuh, Gokou, Kulilin, Kulilyn, Piccoro, etc.), they aren't particularly attached to any given spelling, because as far as the Japanese side of things are concerned, it doesn't matter.

[ABED]

But none of those capture what the name is intended to mean.

Bulma does if you know what you're looking for. The name puns aren't always so on the nose.

Personally, I use "Blooma" because bu-ru-ma lacks the elongated ending vowel typically associated with -er endings (as opposed to bu-ru-ma-a, which is a common spelling of it in Japanese), similar to how fu-ri-i-za becomes Freeza instead of Freezer (freezer being fu-ri-i-za-a). But I have seen some renderings of bloomers as bu-ru-ma, so I have no problem with "Bloomer" being a name for her, especially since it's even more consistent with the rest of her family.

SO you're saying there are options? But for some reason Bulma's not a legit option? That seems awfully arbitrary. And just so it's clear, these questions are being asked in earnest.

Thank you for taking the time to explain in an friendly well articulated manner. This easily could've gone down a much different road.

[MyVisionity]

Toriyama himself has seemingly realized his own mistake because in recent years, he has drawn her name on her clothes, on at least one occasion, as "Bloomer" (or possibly "Bloomers"... she's turned at an angle, so it's hard to see that side clearly).

I think that you can just barely make out the edge of an "S" on the end, if you look hard enough, and the letters would also be divided evenly by the zipper, but it's tough to say...

But I have seen some renderings of bloomers as bu-ru-ma, so I have no problem with "Bloomer" being a name for her, especially since it's even more consistent with the rest of her family.

This is an important point, so thanks for mentioning it.

I personally prefer to call her "Buruma" first (and then maybe "Bloomer/Bloomers"), mostly because buruma/burumaa is such a distinctly Japanese thing that I think Anglicizing it further would detract from the pun. Unless if maybe the subtitles included a note explaining it to the audience.

Saiyan is a anagram of Yasai which means vegetables in Japanese.

Yes. Therefore, the best way to do that in English is to do Saiyan, pronounced correctly, then people who are aware of "Yasai" might get it(Not totally out of the question; Japanese restaurants sometimes call vegetable dishes "Yasai", so some people may realise it). Changing it to like Tavegebs or something would just be obtuse, weird, and clunky. So, Saiyan is best left alone.

I'd be curious to know what you think of the added "-n" in "Saiyan", and whether or not you think it's necessary. And does it affect the pronunciation for you?

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't see the need to change Bulma to Blooma.

[Gaffer Tape]

Bulma does if you know what you're looking for. The name puns aren't always so on the nose.

No, they're not always so on the nose. But this one unmistakably is either exactly on the nose or right next to the nose. We've both already explained how it sits in relation to its pun source, and there simply isn't any reason to look at the Japanese spelling of her name and think there is any kind of significant obfuscation going on. It is slightly disheartening to go to the trouble of providing detailed explanations only to receive in return such vague suppositions as "it does if you know what you're looking for" and "the name puns aren't always so on the nose." I believe that you're asking in earnest, and I appreciate that. But you're not really providing a rebuttal with any kind of substance to it.

Also, I'd be very interested to hear a bit more feedback on the explanations I've given and especially the picture drawn by Toriyama himself. It just rather feels like you dismissed all of that out of hand with a, "Well, it's still possible..." kind of answer.

SO you're saying there are options? But for some reason Bulma's not a legit option? That seems awfully arbitrary. And just so it's clear, these questions are being asked in earnest.

Not arbitrary at all. In a lot of cases there is wiggle room. I personally use "Kuririn," but I don't see anything wrong with Kulilin, Kurilin, etc. And there's nothing arbitrary about any of those. They are all informed decisions based on the Japanese spelling and knowledge of what the name means. Translation is an art, not a science. But in the case of that character, you are talking about a name purely rooted in the Chinese and Japanese languages and trying to find an equivalent for it in English. Bu-ru-ma is not quite the same beast. It is a name with roots in English that was given its best equivalent in Japanese that is now being brought back to English. Knowledge of the root word is very important in figuring out the best way to deal with something like that. The reason there is any wiggle room at all is simply because, in this case, this loan word has acquired several different spelling variants in Japan. Some of them elongate the first vowel but not the last. Some the opposite. Some both. Some neither. So it's not entirely clear if Toriyama chose bu-ru-ma so as to give the character the exact name as the word, or if he was doing the same thing he would later do with Freeza by taking an English loan word and chopping off the last vowel sound. And since Japanese doesn't really have plural distinction, there's also the possibility between, say, Bloomer and Bloomers. But I reiterate, there is absolutely no attempt at obfuscation in its Japanese spelling beyond that possibility. It's either the exact word (a la Oolong) or the tiniest of changes into a pun (a la Freeza). Absolutely nothing in its Japanese spelling goes anywhere near the same territory as Reacoom, Toppo, Tullece, or Selypa.

Honestly, what seems much more arbitrary to me is how so many people will immediately dismiss "Kuririn," "Kulilin," "Kame Sen," "Piccoro," "Red Ribon," and anything else rendered by the Japanese staff and Toriyama himself as "obvious Engrish mistakes," but this one spelling, this and only this, is completely sacrosanct.

Thank you for taking the time to explain in an friendly well articulated manner. This easily could've gone down a much different road.

I appreciate it. I hope I managed to keep it up in this post. I don't see any reason why this topic would have any need to become unpleasant.

[ABED]

Thanks. 20 years of habit, and call me ignorant, I'm going with what I've gone with for 2 decades even though I changed how I pronounced Saiyan long ago to the correct pronunciation. Arbitrary, I know, but I am what I am... wait, that's Popeye.

[Robo4900]

Bulma does if you know what you're looking for. The name puns aren't always so on the nose.

Bulma's family's names are, though. Trunks, Dr. Brief, Bra, Tights... Blooma/Bloomer really should be the way to write her name.

SO you're saying there are options? But for some reason Bulma's not a legit option? That seems awfully arbitrary. And just so it's clear, these questions are being asked in earnest.

Thank you for taking the time to explain in an friendly well articulated manner. This easily could've gone down a much different road.

There are a variety of different ways of romanising from Japanese, but the Japanese word here comes from an English word, so romanising it in an obtuse way like Bulma or Burma or something would be silly. As I keep citing, it'd be like rendering Trunks as Torunkusu.

Thanks. 20 years of habit, and call me ignorant, I'm going with what I've gone with for 2 decades even though I changed how I pronounced Saiyan long ago to the correct pronunciation. Arbitrary, I know, but I am what I am... wait, that's Popeye.

Being used to a particular term, correct or not, is fine. I will probably never pronounce Saiyan correctly. But arguing that that particular way is better is an entirely different matter.

[MyVisionity]

As I keep citing, it'd be like rendering Trunks as Torunkusu.

I don't think this is quite the same thing in the case of Buruma/Bloomer.

With Trunks (and the rest of the family) you have a name taken directly from a source found within the English speaking world. With Buruma/Bloomer you have a name taken from a source that is almost entirely Japanese in origin, despite its English-derived name. Audiences outside of Japan aren't going to just pick up on what "Bloomer/Bloomers" references without some help. Nor would it be out of place to see a name like "Buruma" among a variety of other Japanese/Chinese names, especially because of its particular Japanese context.

[VegettoEX]

Plenty of people who speak English know what “bloomers” are.

Independent of that, I’ve never once in my life heard anyone outside of Dragon Ball fandom refer to anything as “trunks”.

[Kamiccolo9]

Plenty of people who speak English know what “bloomers” are.

Independent of that, I’ve never once in my life heard anyone outside of Dragon Ball fandom refer to anything as “trunks”.

Where I lived, we said "swimming trunks" fairly often.

That being said, I knew what bloomers were growing up, and I'm from the middle of nowhere, so there's that.