Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:15 pm

Maybe it's just because I'm British, but I've been aware of both words and their meanings since I was very young. Always seemed like fairly common-knowledge words to me.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:16 pm

The most common usage of Trunks I hear are swimming trunks. I also hear wrestling tights referred to as trunks. And I have also heard the term bloomers, but both are archaic.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:41 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Plenty of people who speak English know what “bloomers” are.
Truly? I highly doubt that English audiences in general have ever heard of "bloomers", outside of maybe seasoned anime fans and Japanese enthusiasts. Maybe they've heard of the word "bloomers" itself, used in its other related contexts, but not in this particular usage.
VegettoEX wrote:Independent of that, I’ve never once in my life heard anyone outside of Dragon Ball fandom refer to anything as “trunks”.
This is definitely strange to me, as I thought "swimming trunks" was a very common term. Maybe in some regions (like the Mid-Atlantic) it's less common?

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:47 pm

MyVisionity wrote:Truly? I highly doubt that English audiences in general have ever heard of "bloomers", outside of maybe seasoned anime fans and Japanese enthusiasts. Maybe they've heard of the word "bloomers" itself, used in its other related contexts, but not in this particular usage.
I'm all for understanding things in their original contexts, but, quite frankly, does that really matter here? Whether you're thinking of the gym shorts or the long undergarments of 19th century that gave the former example their name, you're basically on the same page here. Almost everyone knows the word "bloomers," and anyone who hears it is going to instantly understand the joke and as soon as they meet her family, instantly understand how those names fit together.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:49 pm

Probably "King Kai" because of how half-assed it is. Either call him Kaio or call him the World King (or something similar... King of the Cosmos, King of the Worlds, whatever). Don't just translate one part of it, that just confuses people. Especially when we get South Kai, West Kai, and North Kai later.

Also Duh-boo-ruh. You had that one gift-wrapped to you, how'd you screw it up?
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Super Sonic » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:08 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Probably "King Kai" because of how half-assed it is. Either call him Kaio or call him the World King (or something similar... King of the Cosmos, King of the Worlds, whatever). Don't just translate one part of it, that just confuses people. Especially when we get South Kai, West Kai, and North Kai later.

Also Duh-boo-ruh. You had that one gift-wrapped to you, how'd you screw it up?
North Kai is King Kai. And King of the Cosmos would've had folks making Katamari jokes later on. As for Dabura, sometimes a different emphasis on different syllables happen. There are Japanese-American girls out there who pronounce their names "Uh-soo-kuh" and "Suh-koor-uh", so it happens.

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:Truly? I highly doubt that English audiences in general have ever heard of "bloomers", outside of maybe seasoned anime fans and Japanese enthusiasts. Maybe they've heard of the word "bloomers" itself, used in its other related contexts, but not in this particular usage.
I'm all for understanding things in their original contexts, but, quite frankly, does that really matter here? Whether you're thinking of the gym shorts or the long undergarments of 19th century that gave the former example their name, you're basically on the same page here. Almost everyone knows the word "bloomers," and anyone who hears it is going to instantly understand the joke and as soon as they meet her family, instantly understand how those names fit together.
I think there's a significant difference between the 19th century styled Bloomers and the buruma of Japan. Namely the latter's resemblance to underwear. It's this resemblance that influenced Toriyama's naming of the character and the rest of the family, as well as drove much of the series' humor surrounding her name. So I disagree that most outside of Japan are going to instantly understand the joke when they hear it. The most they're going to get out of it is maybe the connection to the European female clothing of old, and I certainly don't think that's good enough.

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:33 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:Truly? I highly doubt that English audiences in general have ever heard of "bloomers", outside of maybe seasoned anime fans and Japanese enthusiasts. Maybe they've heard of the word "bloomers" itself, used in its other related contexts, but not in this particular usage.
I'm all for understanding things in their original contexts, but, quite frankly, does that really matter here? Whether you're thinking of the gym shorts or the long undergarments of 19th century that gave the former example their name, you're basically on the same page here. Almost everyone knows the word "bloomers," and anyone who hears it is going to instantly understand the joke and as soon as they meet her family, instantly understand how those names fit together.
I think there's a significant difference between the 19th century styled Bloomers and the buruma of Japan. Namely the latter's resemblance to underwear. It's this resemblance that influenced Toriyama's naming of the character and the rest of the family, as well as drove much of the series' humor surrounding her name. So I disagree that most outside of Japan are going to instantly understand the joke when they hear it. The most they're going to get out of it is maybe the connection to the European female clothing of old, and I certainly don't think that's good enough.
They're both clothing. You don't need to know anymore than that to get the joke.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:16 pm

MyVisionity wrote:I think there's a significant difference between the 19th century styled Bloomers and the buruma of Japan. Namely the latter's resemblance to underwear.
Yeah, there is a significant difference. 19th century bloomers actually are underwear while the "buruma" of Japan are, in fact, not. So in terms of getting the whole "underwear"ish theme across, the American perception of them does just fine. As much as it pains me to admit it, it does so a bit better. And believe me, I hate to be technically arguing against accuracy here, but this seems a bit like splitting hairs to me. This isn't even like other homonyms like "bo" versus "bow" where they mean two (or even three) completely different things. Whatever "bloomers" you happen to be thinking of, the same point hits home.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:30 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:I think there's a significant difference between the 19th century styled Bloomers and the buruma of Japan. Namely the latter's resemblance to underwear.
Yeah, there is a significant difference. 19th century bloomers actually are underwear while the "buruma" of Japan are, in fact, not. So in terms of getting the whole "underwear"ish theme across, the American perception of them does just fine. As much as it pains me to admit it, it does so a bit better.
I'm not sure if I would call the 19th century bloomers "underwear" outside of the broadest sense, but even so, the Japanese buruma have a closer resemblance to the modern concept of underwear. In particular, to the female panties. There's a reason that buruma tend to be fetishized in Japan.
Whatever "bloomers" you happen to be thinking of, the same point hits home.
I agree that maybe a similar point hits home. But probably not the one that Toriyama intended. As he himself stated:
Since she was a girl I didn’t want a cute name, but something that would be silly and that females would recognize. So I did this.

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Vegard Aune » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:47 am

Super Sonic wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Probably "King Kai" because of how half-assed it is. Either call him Kaio or call him the World King (or something similar... King of the Cosmos, King of the Worlds, whatever). Don't just translate one part of it, that just confuses people. Especially when we get South Kai, West Kai, and North Kai later.

Also Duh-boo-ruh. You had that one gift-wrapped to you, how'd you screw it up?
North Kai is King Kai. And King of the Cosmos would've had folks making Katamari jokes later on. As for Dabura, sometimes a different emphasis on different syllables happen. There are Japanese-American girls out there who pronounce their names "Uh-soo-kuh" and "Suh-koor-uh", so it happens.
Their handling of Dabra's name is both a pronounciation issue and a TL issue. That U obscures the pun somewhat, and their pronounciation of it makes it almost entirely unrecognizable. And... Katamari jokes? Are you claiming that a translation wouldn't work because it would eventually lead to people making jokes based on a game that wasn't even out yet at the time (I think)?

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 am

MyVisionity wrote:I'm not sure if I would call the 19th century bloomers "underwear" outside of the broadest sense, but even so, the Japanese buruma have a closer resemblance to the modern concept of underwear. In particular, to the female panties. There's a reason that buruma tend to be fetishized in Japan.
Except Buruma has no meaning in English. Meanwhile, Blooma is an English word for a form of undergarment, just like Trunks, Dr. Brief, Tights, etc.

Remember, the point in translation is not to render the original meaning perfectly, it's to provide an English equivalent of what's being said. The famous "Pretty peas" joke in Super is a good recent example of this; that's not what they said in Japan, but it's an English equivalent of the pun they used. Bulma's name can be romanised in a variety of different ways, one of which is pretty much the English root word the term comes from, Bloomer, and while in English usage it doesn't refer to the exact same thing as it does in Japan, it's essentially an equivalent pun.

Are you going to tell me now that the correct way to subtitle One Piece involves saying "Nakama" with a TL note? Or, just face the fact that translation is not exact, and you just have to go for approximate equivalents that work fine in English. As it stands, Blooma/Bloomer is a perfectly fine romanisation of the name which contains meaning close enough, meanwhile any other romanisation would be totally meaningless without some kind of note explaining it. It seems pretty damn clear cut to me.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:Probably "King Kai" because of how half-assed it is. Either call him Kaio or call him the World King (or something similar... King of the Cosmos, King of the Worlds, whatever). Don't just translate one part of it, that just confuses people. Especially when we get South Kai, West Kai, and North Kai later.

Also Duh-boo-ruh. You had that one gift-wrapped to you, how'd you screw it up?
North Kai is King Kai. [...]
Worth noting: the Viz manga referred to him alternately as Kaio and Lord Of Worlds, with a sort of implication that the former is a name while the latter is either a title or a descriptor. See also their handling of Roshi's name, alternately calling him Kame-Sen'nin and The Turtle Hermit.
This ultimately allows Viz to render the original names while also putting meaning close to the original intent into them, and lets them maintain Kaioken's original name and having the connection to Kaio be clear without having to resort to something weird like "King Kai Fist" or "Fist Of The Lord Of Worlds".
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:45 am

Robo4900 wrote:Except that doesn't make any sense, because you're saying [ruh-KOOM] instead of [ree-KOOM] or [re-KOOM]. At the very least if you're keeping the emphasis like that, you should keep the sounds the same.

Except even if the emphasis was done as I describe, you've still swapped the vowels around, and got [REE-koom]. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the English word "Cream" to me.
And don't get all weird and technical about the adding letters and things. The point is to adapt the name to an English audience. We don't have to follow the same rules Toriyama followed, we just have to reconstruct the pun in a way that makes sense. "ruh-KOOM" has absolutely no similarity to "Cream" in English whatsoever. Rearranging it will give you "koo-RUM", so "ruh-KOOM" doesn't work as an English equivalent of the name.
As I say, if you want to keep the emphasis as-is, you should still at least have it remain as [ree-KOOM] or [re-KOOM], otherwise the pun just simply isn't there. Though I personally don't see why the emphasis can't move with the vowel. Means we're pronouncing it a bit differently from the Japanese, but we also pronounce "Trunks", "Vegeta", and "Videl" differently from how it would be in Japanese. They're English-based names, so it's not a case of "Pronounce it like the Japanese", it's a case of preserving the intent of the name. Otherwise, we'd just romanise it as-is and be done(Which would, of course, give us Rikoomu, or Rikuum).

Except you completely ignored [REE-koom] there. I have a hard time believing anyone would actually say [REE-kuhm], unless we're going to start saying [GO-kuh]. :P
And I find your reasoning here to be fuzzy at best; changing [ree-KOOM] to [ruh-KOOM] is just being unnecessarily obtuse. You can say people tend to do that, but what about "Recoup" or "Revitalise"? Emphasise the "RE" there and they'd sound weird, so you get a pronunciation like [re-KOOP]... Sound familiar? :wink:
And sure, you could still argue that if this was an English word, it'd be more likely to change it to [ruh-KOOM] in the face of my counterarguments, but this isn't an English word. We're inventing a name here. A name for a man from space. And his name is supposed to be a pun on "Cream". When adapting a name pun, you should work under the assumption it can be made to work, and find a way to do it. Ditching the name and just saying "nah it doesn't work in english" is a last resort. If translators were so willing to give up, you'd start seeing a lot of "You are my nakama!" in anime dubs.
Perhaps my wording is still confusing? In that case, I'm gonna try to explain myself using your exact wording where possible. Please don't take anything as rude or anger-filld. That's not my intention.

So you're saying "We just have to reconstruct the pun in a way that makes sense. "ruh-KOOM" has absolutely no similarity to "Cream" in English whatsoever. Rearranging it will give you "koo-RUM".", but rearranging 'cream' gets you [koo-RUM] how? There's only ONE vowel sound, and only ONE syllabel in the English word 'cream'. So even with the spelling and pronunciation that you want ('Reacoom' and [REE-coom]), you're still "Pronounc[ing] it like the Japanese" and NOT "preserving the intent of the name" "to an English audience". So my point was that you can't use those arguments against my and Funimation's "[ruh-KOOM] when they can also be used against your own pronunciation (and spelling).

My goal is to preserve the pun in an as-English-as-possible way, so I don't really care about how the Japanese pronounce リクーム. That'd be [ree-KOO-moo], but I'm going for [ruh-KOOM]. My point is that "[ree-KOOM] is very NOT English. Yes, there's a long EE-sound in 'cream', but when you add in a second syllabel, one with a very obviously long sound (the OO), you can't expect the EA and the OO to keep their sounds. One has to give in and become an unstresst UH-sound, and since OO is NEVER gonna be an unstresst UH-sound (or an unstresst IH-sound or EH-sound if you prefer), that leaves the EA to take the fall.

It depends on the word. The name 'Goku' would get to keep both full vowel sounds regardless of which syllabel you emphasized. It's partially due to the spelling, and partially due to it not having much going on.

The 're' in 'recoup' and 'revitalise' is a prefix added to the words 'coup' and 'vital'. It's similar to combining two base words together.

You said "Emphasise the "RE"" and you'd get "[re-KOOP]", but it looks like you're still emphasizing the second syllabel there... And I don't know what you mean with the "[re]" sound. In any case, the word 'recoup', I don't think anyone would ever pronounce [REE-koop]. They'd say either [ree-KOOP], or a reduced vowel sound: [reh-KOOP] (as a short E since it IS an E after all), [rih-KOOP] (as a short I, like the dictionary says to pronounce it), or [ruh-KOOP] (as a generic, undistinguishable UH-sound...which makes more sense than a short I like the dictionary uses).

Actually, I just realized that your "emphasise the "RE" there and they'd sound weird" which you used in your 'recoup' exampel should also apply to your 'Reacoom' exampel. If you think 'recoup' as [REE-koop] sounds weird, then why don't you think 'Reacoom' as [REE-koom] sounds weird?

I just feel like [REE-koom] is more like a 'Vegerot' kind of change...but without actually making the pun work. It's still just as distant and Japanese as [ree-KOOM]/[ruh-KOOM]. *Sigh* Fine, I'll mention it... If you REALLY wanted to make it pronounced [ree] instead of [ruh/rih/reh], then you could spell it 'ReaCoom'. Isn't that how Kanzenshuu spells it? Or used to? I think it looks/sounds stupid, and still noöne's gonna get it. It's just not gonna be obvious to English speakers if you allow the OO-sound from the Japanese pronunciation to be present at all. I'd be fine for forcing the Japanese-esque pronunciation if it actually made the pun obvious.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:49 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:but rearranging 'cream' gets you [koo-RUM] how? There's only ONE vowel sound, and only ONE syllabel in the English word 'cream'.
No no no, I mean reaarranging "ruh-KOOM" gives you "koo-RUM". That's my criticism. Cream would probably rearrange into "ree-KM", which you can't really pronounce, so it needs some form of extra sound there...

You can rearrange "ree-KOOM" or "REE-koom" into "koo-REEM" or "KOO-reem", which has some similarity to "Cream", and given the context with characters named Butta and Jheese, very clearly makes it a pun on cream. "ruh-KOOM" just doesn't support this, thus it doesn't render the pun at all.
Admittedly, it is a stretch, but given we have oddities like "Olibu", and as I say, given the context of Butta and Jheese, it's better than "ruh-KOOM", which is just as cryptic as Funi's "Guldo".
linkdude20002001 wrote:My goal is to preserve the pun in an as-English-as-possible way, so I don't really care about how the Japanese pronounce リクーム. That'd be [ree-KOO-moo], but I'm going for [ruh-KOOM]. My point is that "[ree-KOOM] is very NOT English. Yes, there's a long EE-sound in 'cream', but when you add in a second syllabel, one with a very obviously long sound (the OO), you can't expect the EA and the OO to keep their sounds. One has to give in and become an unstresst UH-sound, and since OO is NEVER gonna be an unstresst UH-sound (or an unstresst IH-sound or EH-sound if you prefer), that leaves the EA to take the fall.
I don't get why you think this. It's certainly odd-sounding, but it's the name of a guy from space in a Japanese show with names like "Yi Xing Long", "Oolong", or "Kame-Sen'nin". The name Reacoom/"ree-KOOM" sounding odd is fine because it represents the pun, and at worst, just kinda sounds a little odd. You say you're trying to preserve the pun, but you're really not, or if you are, you're totally failing by every metric aside from the most dubious of it being a valid romanisation, just like Torunkusu, Turasu, Baddock, and Badgeeta.
linkdude20002001 wrote:The 're' in 'recoup' and 'revitalise' is a prefix added to the words 'coup' and 'vital'. It's similar to combining two base words together.
You have explained why the words I cited are the way they are, but this doesn't refute my citing of them.
linkdude20002001 wrote:You said "Emphasise the "RE"" and you'd get "[re-KOOP]", but it looks like you're still emphasizing the second syllabel there... And I don't know what you mean with the "[re]" sound. In any case, the word 'recoup', I don't think anyone would ever pronounce [REE-koop]. They'd say either [ree-KOOP], or a reduced vowel sound: [reh-KOOP] (as a short E since it IS an E after all), [rih-KOOP] (as a short I, like the dictionary says to pronounce it), or [ruh-KOOP] (as a generic, undistinguishable UH-sound...which makes more sense than a short I like the dictionary uses).
You're getting stuck on one minor part of this. I suggested "REE-koom", but I'm just as behind "ree-KOOM". Choose your battles; either argue for "ree-KOOM" or argue against both. :P
Anyway, "Recoup" very clearly emphasises the second syllable, and yet you don't say "ruh-KOOP". That would be dumb... It would negate the "Re" part of the word... It would muddy the origins of the word, and thus deprive it of meaning... Sound familiar?
linkdude20002001 wrote:Actually, I just realized that your "emphasise the "RE" there and they'd sound weird" which you used in your 'recoup' exampel should also apply to your 'Reacoom' exampel. If you think 'recoup' as [REE-koop] sounds weird, then why don't you think 'Reacoom' as [REE-koom] sounds weird?
Recoup is an existing word. Reacoom is, for the sake of this discussion, a name we're inventing. Still, as I say, pick your battles... I will gladly concede the "REE-koom" vs "ree-KOOM" part of this. Does also make it easier to explain its pronunciation as "It's just like 'recoup', only it's 'Reacoom'" than it would be if we did the odd emphasis I suggested before.
linkdude20002001 wrote:I just feel like [REE-koom] is more like a 'Vegerot' kind of change...but without actually making the pun work. It's still just as distant and Japanese as [ree-KOOM]/[ruh-KOOM]. *Sigh* Fine, I'll mention it... If you REALLY wanted to make it pronounced [ree] instead of [ruh/rih/reh], then you could spell it 'ReaCoom'. Isn't that how Kanzenshuu spells it? Or used to? I think it looks/sounds stupid, and still noöne's gonna get it. It's just not gonna be obvious to English speakers if you allow the OO-sound from the Japanese pronunciation to be present at all. I'd be fine for forcing the Japanese-esque pronunciation if it actually made the pun obvious.
This feels like a strawman argument to me. It isn't like Vegerot at all, and I say that as someone who does advocate for Vegerot. Vegerot is totally reinventing the name to fix an inconsistency in their own adaptation that appears if you don't fix it, meanwhile Reacoom is slightly differently rendering the original name to reflect the root pun better.
"ReaCoom" is weird because you're messing with capitalisation, which I find a little clunky. I'm not sure about Kanzenshuu, but Steve Simmons' subtitles render his name like that, which makes ReaCoom the official accurate spelling in English, so... You've kind of hit yourself with an own goal there. :lol:

I personally stick with Reacoom for the spelling, but ReaCoom is probably technically the best way to do it.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:50 am

Robo4900 wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:I'm not sure if I would call the 19th century bloomers "underwear" outside of the broadest sense, but even so, the Japanese buruma have a closer resemblance to the modern concept of underwear. In particular, to the female panties. There's a reason that buruma tend to be fetishized in Japan.
Bulma's name can be romanised in a variety of different ways, one of which is pretty much the English root word the term comes from, Bloomer, and while in English usage it doesn't refer to the exact same thing as it does in Japan, it's essentially an equivalent pun.
I guess I just don't see the English usage of bloomers to be equivalent to buruma. It's too distinctly Japanese for any other meaning to match it in my view.
Robo4900 wrote:Are you going to tell me now that the correct way to subtitle One Piece involves saying "Nakama" with a TL note? Or, just face the fact that translation is not exact, and you just have to go for approximate equivalents that work fine in English.


I'm not too familiar with One Piece, but as I understand it nakama generally refers to a comrade/associate or a loose sort of "friend". So I'm not sure why that term couldn't be translated outright in some way...
Robo4900 wrote:As it stands, Blooma/Bloomer is a perfectly fine romanisation of the name which contains meaning close enough, meanwhile any other romanisation would be totally meaningless without some kind of note explaining it. It seems pretty damn clear cut to me.
Actually, I could take "Buruma" with or without a subtitle note. While "Bloomer/Bloomers" would be the one in most need of a note in my view. This would also make "Buruma" an ideal dub name to me.

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Super Sonic » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:Are you going to tell me now that the correct way to subtitle One Piece involves saying "Nakama" with a TL note? Or, just face the fact that translation is not exact, and you just have to go for approximate equivalents that work fine in English.


I'm not too familiar with One Piece, but as I understand it nakama generally refers to a comrade/associate or a loose sort of "friend". So I'm not sure why that term couldn't be translated outright in some way...
Older fansubs kept "nakama" as is in their translations. To the point that some folks were mad Funimation didn't leave it in and just translated it in the subtitles and dub. Most are over that now thankfully.

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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:23 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:I'm not sure if I would call the 19th century bloomers "underwear" outside of the broadest sense, but even so, the Japanese buruma have a closer resemblance to the modern concept of underwear. In particular, to the female panties. There's a reason that buruma tend to be fetishized in Japan.
Except Buruma has no meaning in English. Meanwhile, Blooma is an English word for a form of undergarment, just like Trunks, Dr. Brief, Tights, etc.

Remember, the point in translation is not to render the original meaning perfectly, it's to provide an English equivalent of what's being said. The famous "Pretty peas" joke in Super is a good recent example of this; that's not what they said in Japan, but it's an English equivalent of the pun they used. Bulma's name can be romanised in a variety of different ways, one of which is pretty much the English root word the term comes from, Bloomer, and while in English usage it doesn't refer to the exact same thing as it does in Japan, it's essentially an equivalent pun.

Are you going to tell me now that the correct way to subtitle One Piece involves saying "Nakama" with a TL note? Or, just face the fact that translation is not exact, and you just have to go for approximate equivalents that work fine in English. As it stands, Blooma/Bloomer is a perfectly fine romanisation of the name which contains meaning close enough, meanwhile any other romanisation would be totally meaningless without some kind of note explaining it. It seems pretty damn clear cut to me.
Super Sonic wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Probably "King Kai" because of how half-assed it is. Either call him Kaio or call him the World King (or something similar... King of the Cosmos, King of the Worlds, whatever). Don't just translate one part of it, that just confuses people. Especially when we get South Kai, West Kai, and North Kai later.

Also Duh-boo-ruh. You had that one gift-wrapped to you, how'd you screw it up?
North Kai is King Kai. [...]
Worth noting: the Viz manga referred to him alternately as Kaio and Lord Of Worlds, with a sort of implication that the former is a name while the latter is either a title or a descriptor. See also their handling of Roshi's name, alternately calling him Kame-Sen'nin and The Turtle Hermit.
This ultimately allows Viz to render the original names while also putting meaning close to the original intent into them, and lets them maintain Kaioken's original name and having the connection to Kaio be clear without having to resort to something weird like "King Kai Fist" or "Fist Of The Lord Of Worlds".
"Fist of the World King" doesn't sound weird to me.
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He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:27 pm

That is too much for the mouth flaps. Why do you think they never tried anything with that move in English?
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:30 pm

Robo4900 wrote:Worth noting: the Viz manga referred to him alternately as Kaio and Lord Of Worlds, with a sort of implication that the former is a name while the latter is either a title or a descriptor. See also their handling of Roshi's name, alternately calling him Kame-Sen'nin and The Turtle Hermit.
This ultimately allows Viz to render the original names while also putting meaning close to the original intent into them, and lets them maintain Kaioken's original name and having the connection to Kaio be clear without having to resort to something weird like "King Kai Fist" or "Fist Of The Lord Of Worlds".
Maybe it's just me, but I never got the impression that Viz intended for "Kaio" to be the name and "Lord of Worlds" to be the title. When I first read the manga, it seemed obvious to me that they meant the same thing, though I think I had been primed for that kinda thing, based on the way they translated jutsu names in Naruto ("Kage Bunshin no Jutsu! Art of the Shadow Doppelganger!"). Same thing with all the similar situations: Kame Sennin/Turtle Hermit, Kami-sama/God, etc.
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Re: Which of FUNimation's Name Changes Bother You the Most?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:11 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:Worth noting: the Viz manga referred to him alternately as Kaio and Lord Of Worlds, with a sort of implication that the former is a name while the latter is either a title or a descriptor. See also their handling of Roshi's name, alternately calling him Kame-Sen'nin and The Turtle Hermit.
This ultimately allows Viz to render the original names while also putting meaning close to the original intent into them, and lets them maintain Kaioken's original name and having the connection to Kaio be clear without having to resort to something weird like "King Kai Fist" or "Fist Of The Lord Of Worlds".
Maybe it's just me, but I never got the impression that Viz intended for "Kaio" to be the name and "Lord of Worlds" to be the title. When I first read the manga, it seemed obvious to me that they meant the same thing, though I think I had been primed for that kinda thing, based on the way they translated jutsu names in Naruto ("Kage Bunshin no Jutsu! Art of the Shadow Doppelganger!"). Same thing with all the similar situations: Kame Sennin/Turtle Hermit, Kami-sama/God, etc.
Well, exactly. It was never necessarily said that it was a name and a title, but if you don't know any better, it does give that vague sense, given that way it's presented.

Honestly, I think it's a pretty good way of handling it, and having two different names to refer to him by with different numbers of syllables would potentially make dubbing easier.
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