Would you say Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime/manga worldwide?

[DBZAOTA482]

The DBZ ratings were the evidence, they made up the difference, the only thing Yugioh had was the card game, and the show was used to promote cards not the other way around. Yet it still failed at the box office, $29 million dollars doesn't seem that great to me, the two DBZ made more than that and the show original run was done with 10 years ago. On top of the DBZ DVDs breaking in Billboard top for Home video sales every release. Plus other shows like ATLA and Spongebob had movies and did good in the box office and their appeal was just the TV show.

Again, ratings are not indicative of any kind of potential success in the box office. Going by the logic, they should have made theatrical movies based off of Sienfeld, Friends and Dallas. But that didn't happen did it. Spongebob Sqaurepants was already a monster merchandise spinner by the time the movie happened in 2004. And The Last Airbender had a monster budget behind it and an incredible amount of marketing and promotional tie in.

And a quick note(s): The Yu-Gi-Oh movie actually made more money in the US than both BOG and ROF managed in the US put together. And the Yu-Gi-Oh Trading Cards Game was officially launched before the anime adaptation of the original manga even began production. And by the time the anime adaption aired on TV, the trading cards were already selling like crazy in Japan.

BoG and RoF were given limited releases in the US. If given wide releases then they almost certainly would've out performed the Yu-Gi-Oh movie by a wide margin. They already did far better worldwide.

[floofychan333]

Pokemon and Naruto are more recognizable here but people still know what Dragon Ball Z is.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't know if your post is directed to me or DBZAOTA482, it looks like it's directed to him. Since a most of what you typed, pertains to what he said, but the only real leverage you had of saying DBZ film wouldn't have been a success or would've bombed in U.S. during its the original airing is the PPG's movie and that's pretty much shot down. All the rest is speculative fluff with no evidence.

And what evidence beyond its ratings is there to indicate that a DBZ movie released in 1999-2002 would do Pokemon movie money? I didn't say the movie bomb just because it's not Pokemon. I said it could under performed in theaters if isn't marketed properly. Which is the truth. The appeal of Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh in the US was far bigger than just it's TV show. You couldn't really say the same for Dragon Ball Z at the time. Would a DBZ movie released between 1999-2002 have made a decent amount of money with basic promotion? Yeah, it would have. Would it have made Pokemon movie money? Not so sure at all. The PPG just didn't have good ratings. But it ultimately made enough money externally to justify a movie being made for it.

Dragon Ball was a huge merchandise beast at the time. The VHS tapes, DVDs, and the video games (namely the Budokai series) were selling like hotcakes and there was 2 major toylines from Burger King. Not to mention it also had a popular card game series.

Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon are reportedly the biggest crazes at the time.

I'd still say that Pokemon was in a league of its in terms of notoriety. Dragon Ball Z was definitely popular. But it just wasn't "Pokemon"-level popular in any sense.

[Hellspawn28]

Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles and Pokemon were the biggest kids franchises in the 90's. DBZ was big, but Pokemon had more merchandise to it and you could find Pokemon stuff almost everywhere in late 1998 - 2003.

[SaiyanGod117]

The DBZ ratings were the evidence, they made up the difference, the only thing Yugioh had was the card game, and the show was used to promote cards not the other way around. Yet it still failed at the box office, $29 million dollars doesn't seem that great to me, the two DBZ made more than that and the show original run was done with 10 years ago. On top of the DBZ DVDs breaking in Billboard top for Home video sales every release. Plus other shows like ATLA and Spongebob had movies and did good in the box office and their appeal was just the TV show.

Again, ratings are not indicative of any kind of potential success in the box office. Going by the logic, they should have made theatrical movies based off of Sienfeld, Friends and Dallas. But that didn't happen did it. Spongebob Sqaurepants was already a monster merchandise spinner by the time the movie happened in 2004. And The Last Airbender had a monster budget behind it and an incredible amount of marketing and promotional tie in.

And a quick note(s): The Yu-Gi-Oh movie actually made more money in the US than both BOG and ROF managed in the US put together. And the Yu-Gi-Oh Trading Cards Game was officially launched before the anime adaptation of the original manga even began production. And by the time the anime adaption aired on TV, the trading cards were already selling like crazy in Japan.

The Yugioh movie only made $9 million dollars in the U.S, and the people only bought the trading card game because of the show. It gave people incentive too, they went hand-in-hand, without the show the cards would just be sitting on shelves collecting dust. No kid would buy some random cars on the shelf. The Duel monsters the characters used in the show enticed people to buy the cards. Furthermore, just because Dragon Ball didn't have video game at the time doesn't mean it wasn't bringing in merchandise. Plenty of toys and merchandise were still being sold by leading manufacturers and retailers, and for the love of God merchandise has nothing to do whether a movie will be success or not at the box office. Above all it's promotion, they literally don't correlate with each other I don't even know why you keep bringing it up.

Most of your argument mostly consist of I think, it won't, it shouldn't, or it's not popular enough. You're not really even referencing or building on top of anything, your just comparing and contrasting, which is one part of building an argument. But ultimately you're not really assembling any supporting evidence and using it in a constructive way. Or proving a DBZ movie during it's peak popularity would have flopped. What I've been saying this whole argument, is if DBZ had a movie adequate promotion and released at its peak popularity it would have been successful. The evidence is there, the ratings it got on Cartoonnetwork blew out any show on the network, racking up viewership by episode to well into the three million mark.

Not to mention its already humongously bigger following in Latin America. Plus the DBZ website got over 7 million hits a day unlike Pokémon, it already at the time association with global chainholder restaurants like Buger King and other big manufacturers. Movie promotions would have been nothing and while also factoring in the money it would have made from other territories. Undoubtedly it would have been a huge success, also even after the DBZ original run was over with on Cartoonnetwork. The games were still among the most sold on the PlayStation 2, now with all this information it's kinda hard to say a DBZ movie would have flopped in the theaters. It seems to me you vastly overestimate Pokémon popularity, just like how Cartoonnetwork vastly overestimated the PowerPuff Girls. In speaking of Pokémon, the movies were badly criticized by critics as opposed to DBZ, which greatly effected it's box office revenue. As many many people know, word of mouth spreads like wildfire, and no matter how much budget or promotion is behind a movie. If it's bad, it's box office performance will be greatly impeded. Well anyways, I'm done with this now, people reading this thread can form a conclusion by themselves whether or not DBZ would have made a box office success or would have made as much or more than Pokémon.

[Lord Beerus]

The DBZ ratings were the evidence, they made up the difference, the only thing Yugioh had was the card game, and the show was used to promote cards not the other way around. Yet it still failed at the box office, $29 million dollars doesn't seem that great to me, the two DBZ made more than that and the show original run was done with 10 years ago. On top of the DBZ DVDs breaking in Billboard top for Home video sales every release. Plus other shows like ATLA and Spongebob had movies and did good in the box office and their appeal was just the TV show.

Again, ratings are not indicative of any kind of potential success in the box office. Going by the logic, they should have made theatrical movies based off of Sienfeld, Friends and Dallas. But that didn't happen did it. Spongebob Sqaurepants was already a monster merchandise spinner by the time the movie happened in 2004. And The Last Airbender had a monster budget behind it and an incredible amount of marketing and promotional tie in.

And a quick note(s): The Yu-Gi-Oh movie actually made more money in the US than both BOG and ROF managed in the US put together. And the Yu-Gi-Oh Trading Cards Game was officially launched before the anime adaptation of the original manga even began production. And by the time the anime adaption aired on TV, the trading cards were already selling like crazy in Japan.

The Yugioh movie only made $9 million dollars in the U.S, and the people only bought the trading card game because of the show. It gave people incentive too, they went hand-in-hand, without the show the cards would just be sitting on shelves collecting dust. No kid would buy some random cars on the shelf. The Duel monsters the characters used in the show enticed people to buy the cards. Furthermore, just because Dragon Ball didn't have video game at the time doesn't mean it wasn't bringing in merchandise. Plenty of toys and merchandise were still being sold by leading manufacturers and retailers, and for the love of God merchandise has nothing to do whether a movie will be success or not at the box office. Above all it's promotion, they literally don't correlate with each other I don't even know why you keep bringing it up.

Most of your argument mostly consist of I think, it won't, it shouldn't, or it's not popular enough. You're not really even referencing or building on top of anything, your just comparing and contrasting, which is one part of building an argument. But ultimately you're not really assembling any supporting evidence and using it in a constructive way. Or proving a DBZ movie during it's peak popularity would have flopped. What I've been saying this whole argument, is if DBZ had a movie adequate promotion and released at its peak popularity it would have been successful. The evidence is there, the ratings it got on Cartoonnetwork blew out any show on the network, racking up viewership by episode to well into the three million mark.

Not to mention its already humongously bigger following in Latin America. Plus the DBZ website got over 7 million hits a day unlike Pokémon, it already at the time association with global chainholder restaurants like Buger King and other big manufacturers. Movie promotions would have been nothing and while also factoring in the money it would have made from other territories. Undoubtedly it would have been a huge success, also even after the DBZ original run was over with on Cartoonnetwork. The games were still among the most sold on the PlayStation 2, now with all this information it's kinda hard to say a DBZ movie would have flopped in the theaters. It seems to me you vastly overestimate Pokémon popularity, just like how Cartoonnetwork vastly overestimated the PowerPuff Girls. In speaking of Pokémon, the movies were badly criticized by critics as opposed to DBZ, which greatly effected it's box office revenue. As many many people know, word of mouth spreads like wildfire, and no matter how much budget or promotion is behind a movie. If it's bad, it's box office performance will be greatly impeded. Well anyways, I'm done with this now, people reading this thread can form a conclusion by themselves whether or not DBZ would have made a box office success or would have made as much or more than Pokémon.

I'm not overstating the popularity of Pokemon. It's a franchise that makes billions of dollars yearly. Dragon Ball (Z) was/is nowhere near the same stratosphere of recognition that the Pokemon has/had in America, Japan, Europe or the rest of the world. It just isn't. Pokemon in just few years, made close to the same amount of money than Dragon Ball had earned in its entire lifetime by 2000. That's not to say that Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in its heyday, but it wasn't even remotely close to the success of Pokemon to entice major film companies enough to take the gamble and distribute films based off of the franchise. Any given franchise, especially if it's one that has a foreign origin, has to have established themselves as a unique marque brand names that can bring in a lot, and really hell of a lot, of money to justify the investment of a movie, or movies, that has that very same brand name. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon and Power Rangers were, and still are, those kinds of unique marque brand names that bring in insurmountable amounts of profit by default. And in comparison, Dragon Ball Z wasn't seen in the same scope as those franchises the time.

In regards to the PPG movie, CN network obviously knew that the show had generated more than enough profit from external sources to justify investing into a film at that time. The film wouldn't have happened if they already didn't have the predisposition of knowing just how profitable the show was. It was a risk, in their minds, that was well worth taking. And Dragon Ball Z despite its immensely popularity at the time, wasn't worth the same risk. CN or other major film companies obviously didn't think a DBZ movie getting a nationwide release in the early 2000s would have recouped enough movie to justify its existence. Or at the very least, they didn't think a DBZ movie would be as marketable and profitable as the Pokemon movies were at the time. Which is understandable given that the Pokemon franchise was making so much damn money it was crazy.

Dragon Ball (Z) is certainly popular. But it is nowhere near Pokemon level popularity. And it never will be.

Quick note: The Yu Gi-Oh movie actually made nearly $20 million dollars in the US.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm not overstating the popularity of Pokemon. It's a franchise that makes billions of dollars yearly. Dragon Ball (Z) was/is nowhere near the same stratosphere of recognition that the Pokemon has/had in America, Japan, Europe or the rest of the world. It just isn't. Pokemon in just few years, made close to the same amount of money than Dragon Ball had earned in its entire lifetime by 2000. That's not to say that Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in its heyday, but it wasn't even remotely close to the success of Pokemon to entice major film companies enough to take the gamble and distribute films based off of the franchise. Any given franchise, especially if it's one that has a foreign origin, has to have established themselves as a unique marque brand names that can bring in a lot, and really hell of a lot, of money to justify the investment of a movie, or movies, that has that very same brand name. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon and Power Rangers were, and still are, those kinds of unique marque brand names that bring in insurmountable amounts of profit by default. And in comparison, Dragon Ball Z wasn't seen in the same scope as those franchises the time.

In regards to the PPG movie, CN network obviously knew that the show had generated more than enough profit from external sources to justify investing into a film at that time. The film wouldn't have happened if they already didn't have the predisposition of knowing just how profitable the show was. It was a risk, in their minds, that was well worth taking. And Dragon Ball Z despite its immensely popularity at the time, wasn't worth the same risk. CN or other major film companies obviously didn't think a DBZ movie getting a nationwide release in the early 2000s would have recouped enough movie to justify its existence. Or at the very least, they didn't think a DBZ movie would be as marketable and profitable as the Pokemon movies were at the time. Which is understandable given that the Pokemon franchise was making so much damn money it was crazy.

Dragon Ball (Z) is certainly popular. But it is nowhere near Pokemon level popularity. And it never will be.

Quick note: The Yu Gi-Oh movie actually made nearly $20 million dollars in the US.

From the way you talk about things, you make Dragon Ball sound like it was just a moderately popular fad in the US even though it was reportedly not the case at all.

Dragon Ball was reported to have made over 3 billion before it hit the states and was seen as competition to the Pokemon anime while Yu-Gi-Oh wasn't.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The franchise already reportedly over 4 billion by 2007 and it's video releases are the best-selling of any anime in the US.

Yu-Gi-Oh! and definitely Digimon don't make more more money. They were always fads in comparison.

Speaking of Powerpuff Girls, CN once again overestimated the franchise as the reboot has been doing poorly while Dragon Ball Super is doing really well on Toonamidespite airing at midnight and is regularly high in the Top 10 in Japan. Not to mention PPG in general hasn't made half what Dragon Ball has by 2014.

You saying no film distributor ever saw DBZ movies as worth putting in theaters during it's peak popularity in North America but suddenly do now well past that peak and nevermind that pretty much every anime movie these days get a limited release in the US but Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are on top in that regard.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm not overstating the popularity of Pokemon. It's a franchise that makes billions of dollars yearly. Dragon Ball (Z) was/is nowhere near the same stratosphere of recognition that the Pokemon has/had in America, Japan, Europe or the rest of the world. It just isn't. Pokemon in just few years, made close to the same amount of money than Dragon Ball had earned in its entire lifetime by 2000. That's not to say that Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in its heyday, but it wasn't even remotely close to the success of Pokemon to entice major film companies enough to take the gamble and distribute films based off of the franchise. Any given franchise, especially if it's one that has a foreign origin, has to have established themselves as a unique marque brand names that can bring in a lot, and really hell of a lot, of money to justify the investment of a movie, or movies, that has that very same brand name. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon and Power Rangers were, and still are, those kinds of unique marque brand names that bring in insurmountable amounts of profit by default. And in comparison, Dragon Ball Z wasn't seen in the same scope as those franchises the time.

In regards to the PPG movie, CN network obviously knew that the show had generated more than enough profit from external sources to justify investing into a film at that time. The film wouldn't have happened if they already didn't have the predisposition of knowing just how profitable the show was. It was a risk, in their minds, that was well worth taking. And Dragon Ball Z despite its immensely popularity at the time, wasn't worth the same risk. CN or other major film companies obviously didn't think a DBZ movie getting a nationwide release in the early 2000s would have recouped enough movie to justify its existence. Or at the very least, they didn't think a DBZ movie would be as marketable and profitable as the Pokemon movies were at the time. Which is understandable given that the Pokemon franchise was making so much damn money it was crazy.

Dragon Ball (Z) is certainly popular. But it is nowhere near Pokemon level popularity. And it never will be.

Quick note: The Yu Gi-Oh movie actually made nearly $20 million dollars in the US.

From the way you talk about things, you make Dragon Ball sound like it was just a moderately popular fad in the US even though it was reportedly not the case at all.

Dragon Ball was reported to have made over 3 billion before it hit the states and was seen as competition to the Pokemon anime while Yu-Gi-Oh wasn't.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The franchise already reportedly over 4 billion by 2007 and it's video releases are the best-selling of any anime in the US.

Yu-Gi-Oh! and definitely Digimon don't make more more money. They were always fads in comparison.

Speaking of Powerpuff Girls, CN once again overestimated the franchise as the reboot has been doing poorly while Dragon Ball Super is doing really well on Toonamidespite airing at midnight and is regularly high in the Top 10 in Japan. Not to mention PPG in general hasn't made half what Dragon Ball has by 2014.

You saying no film distributor ever saw DBZ movies as worth putting in theaters during it's peak popularity in North America but suddenly do now well past that peak and nevermind that pretty much every anime movie these days get a limited release in the US but Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are on top in that regard.

I'm not making the comparison for the current landscape. It's for the context of late 90s and early 2000s, which is where this debate is rooted. Hence why I constantly say "at that time". Because at that time Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Power Rangers and Digimon were making money than Dragon Ball in the United States. Power Rangers had made more money in 1990s than Dragon Ball did it's entire life span by the time show its foot in the door in 1999. In 2000, Digimon exploded in popularity and sold a more of than any other franchise in the same year. From 1999 to the early 2000s, Pokemon in general was untouchable. And from 2003 and onward, Yu-Gi-Oh took off like nothing you wouldn't believe.

Think about this context, if you want to make a modern comparison: It took Dragon Ball took 28 years to reach the $5 Billion mark in profit from merchandise sales. Yu-Gi-Oh pulled that of the same feat in just 10 years. And Pokemon on yearly basis since its inception, makes at least a billion dollars annually.

Look, I'm not trying so say Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It was popular. Very popular. But it had a hell of lot of competition at that time and competition in general did much better.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm not overstating the popularity of Pokemon. It's a franchise that makes billions of dollars yearly. Dragon Ball (Z) was/is nowhere near the same stratosphere of recognition that the Pokemon has/had in America, Japan, Europe or the rest of the world. It just isn't. Pokemon in just few years, made close to the same amount of money than Dragon Ball had earned in its entire lifetime by 2000. That's not to say that Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in its heyday, but it wasn't even remotely close to the success of Pokemon to entice major film companies enough to take the gamble and distribute films based off of the franchise. Any given franchise, especially if it's one that has a foreign origin, has to have established themselves as a unique marque brand names that can bring in a lot, and really hell of a lot, of money to justify the investment of a movie, or movies, that has that very same brand name. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon and Power Rangers were, and still are, those kinds of unique marque brand names that bring in insurmountable amounts of profit by default. And in comparison, Dragon Ball Z wasn't seen in the same scope as those franchises the time.

In regards to the PPG movie, CN network obviously knew that the show had generated more than enough profit from external sources to justify investing into a film at that time. The film wouldn't have happened if they already didn't have the predisposition of knowing just how profitable the show was. It was a risk, in their minds, that was well worth taking. And Dragon Ball Z despite its immensely popularity at the time, wasn't worth the same risk. CN or other major film companies obviously didn't think a DBZ movie getting a nationwide release in the early 2000s would have recouped enough movie to justify its existence. Or at the very least, they didn't think a DBZ movie would be as marketable and profitable as the Pokemon movies were at the time. Which is understandable given that the Pokemon franchise was making so much damn money it was crazy.

Dragon Ball (Z) is certainly popular. But it is nowhere near Pokemon level popularity. And it never will be.

Quick note: The Yu Gi-Oh movie actually made nearly $20 million dollars in the US.

From the way you talk about things, you make Dragon Ball sound like it was just a moderately popular fad in the US even though it was reportedly not the case at all.

Dragon Ball was reported to have made over 3 billion before it hit the states and was seen as competition to the Pokemon anime while Yu-Gi-Oh wasn't.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The franchise already reportedly over 4 billion by 2007 and it's video releases are the best-selling of any anime in the US.

Yu-Gi-Oh! and definitely Digimon don't make more more money. They were always fads in comparison.

Speaking of Powerpuff Girls, CN once again overestimated the franchise as the reboot has been doing poorly while Dragon Ball Super is doing really well on Toonamidespite airing at midnight and is regularly high in the Top 10 in Japan. Not to mention PPG in general hasn't made half what Dragon Ball has by 2014.

You saying no film distributor ever saw DBZ movies as worth putting in theaters during it's peak popularity in North America but suddenly do now well past that peak and nevermind that pretty much every anime movie these days get a limited release in the US but Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are on top in that regard.

I'm not making the comparison for the current landscape. It's for the context of late 90s and early 2000s, which is where this debate is rooted. Hence why I constantly say "at that time". Because at that time Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Power Rangers and Digimon were making money than Dragon Ball in the United States. Power Rangers had made more money in 1990s than Dragon Ball did it's entire life span by the time show its foot in the door in 1999. In 2000, Digimon exploded in popularity and sold a more of than any other franchise in the same year. From 1999 to the early 2000s, Pokemon in general was untouchable. And from 2003 and onward, Yu-Gi-Oh took off like nothing you wouldn't believe.

Think about this context, if you want to make a modern comparison: It took Dragon Ball took 28 years to reach the $5 Billion mark in profit from merchandise sales. Yu-Gi-Oh pulled that of the same feat in just 10 years. And Pokemon on yearly basis since its inception, makes at least a billion dollars annually.

Look, I'm not trying so say Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It was popular. Very popular. But it had a hell of lot of competition at that time and competition in general did much better.

I know you're not trying to say Dragon Ball wasn't popular. I just disagreeing in the notion that the DBZ movies would've failed if they were ever put theaters and using the PPG movie as an example is pretty absurd cause most people know PPG isn't even in Dragon Ball's level.

We saw Battle of Gods and Resurrection F do extremely well in theaters plus Evolution considering it having virtually no hype and being universally hated before it even came out, didn't do too badly for itself. All after it's peak era in the US.

[Lord Beerus]

From the way you talk about things, you make Dragon Ball sound like it was just a moderately popular fad in the US even though it was reportedly not the case at all.

Dragon Ball was reported to have made over 3 billion before it hit the states and was seen as competition to the Pokemon anime while Yu-Gi-Oh wasn't.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The franchise already reportedly over 4 billion by 2007 and it's video releases are the best-selling of any anime in the US.

Yu-Gi-Oh! and definitely Digimon don't make more more money. They were always fads in comparison.

Speaking of Powerpuff Girls, CN once again overestimated the franchise as the reboot has been doing poorly while Dragon Ball Super is doing really well on Toonamidespite airing at midnight and is regularly high in the Top 10 in Japan. Not to mention PPG in general hasn't made half what Dragon Ball has by 2014.

You saying no film distributor ever saw DBZ movies as worth putting in theaters during it's peak popularity in North America but suddenly do now well past that peak and nevermind that pretty much every anime movie these days get a limited release in the US but Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are on top in that regard.

I'm not making the comparison for the current landscape. It's for the context of late 90s and early 2000s, which is where this debate is rooted. Hence why I constantly say "at that time". Because at that time Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Power Rangers and Digimon were making money than Dragon Ball in the United States. Power Rangers had made more money in 1990s than Dragon Ball did it's entire life span by the time show its foot in the door in 1999. In 2000, Digimon exploded in popularity and sold a more of than any other franchise in the same year. From 1999 to the early 2000s, Pokemon in general was untouchable. And from 2003 and onward, Yu-Gi-Oh took off like nothing you wouldn't believe.

Think about this context, if you want to make a modern comparison: It took Dragon Ball took 28 years to reach the $5 Billion mark in profit from merchandise sales. Yu-Gi-Oh pulled of the same feat in just 10 years. And Pokemon on yearly basis since its inception, makes at least a billion dollars annually.

Look, I'm not trying so say Dragon Ball Z wasn't popular in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It was popular. Very popular. But it had a hell of lot of competition at that time and competition in general did much better.

I know you're not trying to say Dragon Ball wasn't popular. I just disagreeing in the notion that the DBZ movies would've failed if they were ever put theaters and using the PPG movie as an example is pretty absurd cause most people know PPG isn't even in Dragon Ball's level.

We saw Battle of Gods and Resurrection F do extremely well in theaters plus Evolution considering it having virtually no hype and being universally hated before it even came out, didn't do too badly for itself. All after it's peak era in the US.

I'm not saying a Dragon Ball would have failed. I'm saying it could have failed if wasn't marketed properly. And even if was, my standpoint is that it would have been very unlikely that a DBZ movie released at that time would have as much money as the Pokemon movies during it's heyday because Pokemon was in a league of its own at that time. Especially compared to DBZ.

Evolution may have gotten bad press before the movie was released, by as has been the case with many movies over the years, some films can survive bad press, regardless of what attachments the film may have, to still make a decent amount of money in the box office. Battle Of Gods did okay given the nature of the film and how it was released elsewhere. Resurrection F was a case of expert marketing and getting the film distributed in a very timely manner.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm not saying a Dragon Ball would have failed. I'm saying it could have failed if wasn't marketed properly. And even if was, my standpoint is that it would have been very unlikely that a DBZ movie released at that time would have as much money as the Pokemon movies during it's heyday because Pokemon was in a league of its own at that time. Especially compared to DBZ.

Evolution may have gotten bad press before the movie was released, by as has been the case with many movies over the years, some films can survive bad press, regardless of what attachments the film may have, to still make a decent amount of money in the box office. Battle Of Gods did okay given the nature of the film and how it was released elsewhere. Resurrection F was a case of expert marketing and getting the film distributed in a very timely manner.

But you did say Cartoon Network didn't view DBZ movies as worth the risk of putting in theaters yet for some reason thought the PPG movie was as to imply that franchise was more popular than or even close to Dragon Ball in terms of popularity at all when you should know that's not true.

Battle of Gods was reported to have done extremely well... so much that FUNimation started their own independent film distribution division as a result of it's success. It's success also laid way for Resurrection F to do several times better.

Can you give an example of a movie that had virtually no hype and was universally hated before it even come that managed to do well in the box office? As far as I'm concerned, DBE failed because it was simply a bad movie that appealed to nobody with it's only draw is that it had the Dragon Ball label.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm not saying a Dragon Ball Z movie would have failed. I'm saying it could have failed if wasn't marketed properly. And even if was, my standpoint is that it would have been very unlikely that a DBZ movie released at that time would have as much money as the Pokemon movies during it's heyday because Pokemon was in a league of its own at that time. Especially compared to DBZ.

Evolution may have gotten bad press before the movie was released, by as has been the case with many movies over the years, some films can survive bad press, regardless of what attachments the film may have, to still make a decent amount of money in the box office. Battle Of Gods did okay given the nature of the film and how it was released elsewhere. Resurrection F was a case of expert marketing and getting the film distributed in a very timely manner.

But you did say Cartoon Network didn't view DBZ movies as worth the risk of putting in theaters yet for some reason thought the PPG movie was as to imply that franchise was more popular than or even close to Dragon Ball in terms of popularity at all when you should know that's not true.

Battle of Gods was reported to have done extremely well... so much that FUNimation started their own independent film distribution division as a result of it's success. It's success also laid way for Resurrection F to do several times better.

Can you give an example of a movie that had virtually no hype and was universally hated before it even come that managed to do well in the box office? As far as I'm concerned, DBE failed because it was simply a bad movie that appealed to nobody with it's only draw is that it had the Dragon Ball label.

It is true though. The show was one Cartoon Network’s top-grossing and highest rated brands and was a billion dollar franchise in the US by the time they green-lit the movie. That kind of of success doesn't happen by accident. It happens through popularity. And the PPG at the time CN decided to go ahead with the movie, which would have been around late 2001, was more popular, or the very least more bankable of a brand name, than DBZ was.

I'm sure that CN knew how successful DBZ was, but they obviously thought that the PPG was more marketable as a movie. And you can't blame them for that decision. Especially give that there are no guarantees for turning the success of animated TV shows into movies. The Digimon Movie, which was released in very same year the franchise exploded in popularity (2000) in the West, made a pitiful return in the box office, especially compared to what the Pokemon movies did in the US at that time. And that was despite having a major film company back them to distribute the movie and have major promotional tie-ins.

There's no denying that Dragon Ball Z was very popular in late 90s and early 2000s, and on that one very special occasion, it watch most watched show on television with certain demographics. But one great TV rating can't be used a barometer for potential success in its movies. It's certainly a factor taken in consideration but they are other factor that must be taken in consideration before a movie is given the go-ahead, as they is much more at stake when a movie gets produced. And by that time that great rating had happened (2002), the PPG movie had under-performed despite the TV show's great success and the anime movie bubble had truly burst. I mean, when a billion dollar franchise has its animated movies going from making tens of millions of dollars at the US box office to being a box office bomb and eventually released straight-to-DVD, you know the great interest in the movies and franchise in general has cooled down quite a bit.

The peak in the popularity of DBZ just came too late for any real consideration for a movie to released nationwide or worldwide. You can understand if major film companies were very hesitant to invest in another movie related to a foreign (animated) franchise given the only franchise that seemed definite in terms of bringing back a decent amount of cash in the US box office at that time (the Pokemon movies) weren't bring in the cash they used to be. Major film studio just put 2 and 2 together, with how a annually billion dollar franchise was producing movies that continually under-performing compared to the previous entries, and wisely passed on the interest of anime movies and decided to put their focus on domestic properties like Hey Arnold, The Wild Thornberrys and Rugrats, which were all very popular by the time it was decided they would get have a movie, or in the Rugrats' case more movies, made for them.

[DBZAOTA482]

It is true though. The show was one Cartoon Network’s top-grossing and highest rated brands and was a billion dollar franchise in the US by the time they green-lit the movie. That kind of of success doesn't happen by accident. It happens through popularity. And the PPG at the time CN decided to go ahead with the movie, which would have been around late 2001, was more popular, or the very least more bankable of a brand name, than DBZ was.

I'm sure that CN knew how successful DBZ was, but they obviously thought that the PPG was more marketable as a movie. And you can't blame them for that decision. Especially give that there are no guarantees for turning the success of animated TV shows into movies. The Digimon Movie, which was released in very same year the franchise exploded in popularity (2000) in the West, made a pitiful return in the box office, especially compared to what the Pokemon movies did in the US at that time. And that was despite having a major film company back them to distribute the movie and have major promotional tie-ins.

There's no denying that Dragon Ball Z was very popular in late 90s and early 2000s, and on that one very special occasion, it watch most watched show on television with certain demographics. But one great TV rating can't be used a barometer for potential success in its movies. It's certainly a factor taken in consideration but they are other factor that must be taken in consideration before a movie is given the go-ahead, as they is much more at stake when a movie gets produced. And by that time that great rating had happened (2002), the PPG movie had under-performed despite the TV show's great success and the anime movie bubble had truly burst. I mean, when a billion dollar franchise has its animated movies going from making tens of millions of dollars at the US box office to being a box office bomb and eventually released straight-to-DVD, you know the great interest in the movies and franchise in general has cooled down quite a bit.

The peak in the popularity of DBZ just came too late for any real consideration for a movie to released nationwide or worldwide. You can understand if major film companies were very hesitant to invest in another movie related to a foreign (animated) franchise given the only franchise that seemed definite in terms of bringing back a decent amount of cash in the US box office at that time (the Pokemon movies) weren't bring in the cash they used to be. Major film studio just put 2 and 2 together, with how a annually billion dollar franchise was producing movies that continually under-performing compared to the previous entries, and wisely passed on the interest of anime movies and decided to put their focus on domestic properties like Hey Arnold, The Wild Thornberrys and Rugrats, which were all very popular by the time it was decided they would get have a movie, or in the Rugrats' case more movies, made for them.

PPG only made like 2.5 billion in merchandise sales by 2014 and the franchise would be 17 years old at that point. Dragon Ball already made over 3 billion before Z even hit the states and by 2014 (about 27 years), it grossed twice as much as PPG with it likely being much higher by now (with how well Xenoverse and Super are doing).

It wasn't just one rating though. It was rivaling Rugrats in terms of ratings consistently giving CN some of the best ratings in cable television history on top one of the biggest trends in general and was the most-watched telecast in Cartoon Network history till surpassed by the Ben 10 movie. It was also the 4th most-searched term in 1999 (ahead of WWF but behind Pokemon and Brittany Spears) and 2nd in 2000. It was the most searched in 2001 on Lycos and 5th on Yahoo. It remained that way through 2003. Let's not forget the VHS sales.

Pushing for the PPG movie proved to be a stupid decision seeing as it came out when the show was on hiatus and the only bit of marketing outside ads on television was the Burger King toyline which was shared with Dragon Ball Z.

[Lord Beerus]

It is true though. The show was one Cartoon Network’s top-grossing and highest rated brands and was a billion dollar franchise in the US by the time they green-lit the movie. That kind of of success doesn't happen by accident. It happens through popularity. And the PPG at the time CN decided to go ahead with the movie, which would have been around late 2001, was more popular, or the very least more bankable of a brand name, than DBZ was.

I'm sure that CN knew how successful DBZ was, but they obviously thought that the PPG was more marketable as a movie. And you can't blame them for that decision. Especially give that there are no guarantees for turning the success of animated TV shows into movies. The Digimon Movie, which was released in very same year the franchise exploded in popularity (2000) in the West, made a pitiful return in the box office, especially compared to what the Pokemon movies did in the US at that time. And that was despite having a major film company back them to distribute the movie and having major promotional tie-ins.

There's no denying that Dragon Ball Z was very popular in late 90s and early 2000s, and on that one very special occasion, it watch most watched show on television with certain demographics. But one great TV rating can't be used a barometer for potential success in its movies. It's certainly a factor taken in consideration but they are other factor that must be taken in consideration before a movie is given the go-ahead, as they is much more at stake when a movie gets produced. And by that time that great rating had happened (2002), the PPG movie had under-performed despite the TV show's great success and the anime movie bubble had truly burst. I mean, when a billion dollar franchise has its animated movies going from making tens of millions of dollars at the US box office to being a box office bomb and eventually released straight-to-DVD, you know the great interest in the movies and franchise in general has cooled down quite a bit.

The peak in the popularity of DBZ just came too late for any real consideration for a movie to released nationwide or worldwide. You can understand if major film companies were very hesitant to invest in another movie related to a foreign (animated) franchise given the only franchise that seemed definite in terms of bringing back a decent amount of cash in the US box office at that time (the Pokemon movies) weren't bring in the cash they used to be. Major film studio just put 2 and 2 together, with how a annually billion dollar franchise was producing movies that continually under-performing compared to the previous entries, and wisely passed on the interest of anime movies and decided to put their focus on domestic properties like Hey Arnold, The Wild Thornberrys and Rugrats, which were all very popular by the time it was decided they would get have a movie, or in the Rugrats' case more movies, made for them.

PPG only made like 2.5 billion in merchandise sales by 2014 and the franchise would be 17 years old at that point. Dragon Ball already made over 3 billion before Z even hit the states and by 2014 (about 27 years), it grossed twice as much as PPG with it likely being much higher by now (with how well Xenoverse and Super are doing).

It wasn't just one rating though. It was rivaling Rugrats in terms of ratings consistently giving CN some of the best ratings in cable television history on top one of the biggest trends in general and was the most-watched telecast in Cartoon Network history till surpassed by the Ben 10 movie. It was also the 4th most-searched term in 1999 (ahead of WWF but behind Pokemon and Brittany Spears) and 2nd in 2000. It was the most searched in 2001 on Lycos and 5th on Yahoo. It remained that way through 2003. Let's not forget the VHS sales.

Pushing for the PPG movie proved to be a stupid decision seeing as it came out when the show was on hiatus and the only bit of marketing outside ads on television was the Burger King toyline which was shared with Dragon Ball Z.

Do you really think that even a fraction of 2.5 billion in merchandise sales was produced once the show was off the air? A large majority of that money was made while the show was still on TV.

Again, I'm not denying that the show had good ratings. It's something obviously to consider, but they also took into consideration how much money that brand name is making through external sources. And at that time, the PPG was considered more bankable for a movie than DBZ was. Consistently good ratings for an animated show is one thing, but the merchandise sales related to that show is another. And in most cases for all film companies, that is the main factor when considering to produce an animated movie.

CN weighed their options and went with the PPG. The movie wouldn't have happened if CN didn't know for a fact that out of all the shows on the network at that time, the PPG was the brand that they had at that time which was making the most amount of money for them, or had the most potential to reach to a wider audience with a movie. That's why a Digimon movie happened despite it not having consistent ratings success that DBZ had. It was selling a shitload of toys, was making a hell of a lot money and had an incredible amount of potential of making even more money. That's why 20th Century Fox took the risk with a Digimon movie.

It's understandable if you resent the fact they passed on pushing out a DBZ movie when the show was white-hot in terms of TV success, but that's just not good enough for most animated TV show to get a movie based off of them. DBZ had good ratings going for them, but the money it was making externally obviously wasn't large enough to entice companies to push out a film. While the PPG didn't have just good ratings, but it also had great retail sales at that time to back it up.

[DBZAOTA482]

Do you really think that even a fraction of 2.5 billion in merchandise sales was produced once the show was off the air? A large majority of that money was made while the show was still on TV.

Again, I'm not denying that the show had good ratings. It's something obviously to consider, but they also took into consideration how much money that brand name is making through external sources. And at that time, the PPG was considered more bankable for a movie than DBZ was. Consistently good ratings for an animated show is one thing, but the merchandise sales related to that show is another. And in most cases for all film companies, that is the main factor when considering to produce an animated movie.

CN weighed their options and went with the PPG. The movie wouldn't have happened if CN didn't know for a fact that out of all the shows on the network at that time, the PPG was the brand that they had at that time which was making the most amount of money for them, or had the most potential to reach to a wider audience with a movie. That's why a Digimon movie happened despite it not having consistent ratings success that DBZ had. It was selling a shitload of toys, was making a hell of a lot money and had an incredible amount of potential of making even more money. That's why 20th Century Fox took the risk with a Digimon movie.

It's understandable if you resent the fact they passed on pushing out a DBZ movie when the show was white-hot in terms of TV success, but that's just not good enough for most animated TV show to get a movie based off of them. DBZ had good ratings going for them, but the money it was making externally obviously wasn't large enough to entice companies to push out a film. While the PPG didn't have just good ratings, but it also had great retail sales at that time to back it up.

Given the article never specified the timespan that PPG made that much money and the reboot was made because of the original show's general popularity, we can't really say for sure the money was made during it's run. Regardless if it was really more marketable than Dragon Ball, it shouldn't gross just roughly half what DB did.

I know you're not trying to deny it had good ratings but you're clearly underestimating how big Dragon Ball is in the states. It wasn't just a undeniable ratings behemoth but it was one of the biggest trends during the late-90's - early-2000's as it one of the frontrunners in popularizing anime in the west and it's video releases sold some of the best. Outdoing any anime-property released in the US (FUNimation keeps re-releasing the series for a reason), and the video games were selling like hotcakes. I'd say Dragon Ball has more than justified itself enough to be a guaranteed hit based on it's brand name... after all, Battle of Gods and Resurrection F already vastly outperformed the PPG movie.

Given how much CN has been lagging behind it's competitors and it's current general lack of quality programming, it's safe to assume the execs of CN aren't exactly known for making great decisions. Besides isn't Powerpuff Girls also a CN original show?

[Lord Beerus]

Do you really think that even a fraction of 2.5 billion in merchandise sales was produced once the show was off the air? A large majority of that money was made while the show was still on TV.

Again, I'm not denying that the show had good ratings. It's something obviously to consider, but they also took into consideration how much money that brand name is making through external sources. And at that time, the PPG was considered more bankable for a movie than DBZ was. Consistently good ratings for an animated show is one thing, but the merchandise sales related to that show is another. And in most cases for all film companies, that is the main factor when considering to produce an animated movie.

CN weighed their options and went with the PPG. The movie wouldn't have happened if CN didn't know for a fact that out of all the shows on the network at that time, the PPG was the brand that they had at that time which was making the most amount of money for them, or had the most potential to reach to a wider audience with a movie. That's why a Digimon movie happened despite it not having consistent ratings success that DBZ had. It was selling a shitload of toys, was making a hell of a lot money and had an incredible amount of potential of making even more money. That's why 20th Century Fox took the risk with a Digimon movie.

It's understandable if you resent the fact they passed on pushing out a DBZ movie when the show was white-hot in terms of TV success, but that's just not good enough for most animated TV show to get a movie based off of them. DBZ had good ratings going for them, but the money it was making externally obviously wasn't large enough to entice companies to push out a film. While the PPG didn't have just good ratings, but it also had great retail sales at that time to back it up.

Given the article never specified the timespan that PPG made that much money and the reboot was made because of the original show's general popularity, we can't really say for sure the money was made during it's run. Regardless if it was really more marketable than Dragon Ball, it shouldn't gross just roughly half what DB did.

I know you're not trying to deny it had good ratings but you're clearly underestimating how big Dragon Ball is in the states. It wasn't just a undeniable ratings behemoth but it was one of the biggest trends during the late-90's - early-2000's as it one of the frontrunners in popularizing anime in the west and it's video releases sold some of the best. Outdoing any anime-property released in the US (FUNimation keeps re-releasing the series for a reason), and the video games were selling like hotcakes. I'd say Dragon Ball has more than justified itself enough to be a guaranteed hit based on it's brand name... after all, Battle of Gods and Resurrection F already vastly outperformed the PPG movie.

Given how much CN has been lagging behind it's competitors and it's current general lack of quality programming, it's safe to assume the execs of CN aren't exactly known for making great decisions. Besides isn't Powerpuff Girls also a CN original show?

PPG got jackshit in terms new material, whether it be merchandise, videogames or re-releases of the home videos once the show ended in 2005. Dragon Ball was always resurfacing itself in the public eye with yearly videogame in the 2000s and regurgitating merchandise in Japan despite the fact the show had already technically ended in 1996.

Animated TV shows, especially those that had a foreign origin, getting a movie was not exactly a common practice. Even shows that were a big brand name at their time produced movies that underwhelmed in the box office. I mean, look at it in this perspective: South Park, which was one of the most famous shows of the nineties, made less money than the first Pokemon movie. And the only movie that made more money than the first Pokemon movie at that time was the first Rugrats movie. And the Rugrats was nearly a billion dollar franchise by the time that movie happened. And Dragon Ball Z at that time hadn't made anywhere near the amount of money that Rugrats or Pokemon did. I'm not underselling the fact that Dragon Ball Z, in it's heyday, had massive appeal. In its peak era, it was big. But it just wasn't "let's pour millions of dollars into producing a movie" big, like other animated shows at the time were.

Also, in terms of revenue in the US (which the main factor for this debate), the PPG movie actually did better in the box office than Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F combined.

[DBZAOTA482]

PPG got jackshit in terms new material, whether it be merchandise, videogames or re-releases of the home videos once the show ended in 2005. Dragon Ball was always resurfacing itself in the public eye with yearly videogame in the 2000s and regurgitating merchandise in Japan despite the fact the show had already technically ended in 1996.

Animated TV shows, especially those that had a foreign origin, getting a movie was not exactly a common practice. Even shows that were a big brand name at their time produced movies that underwhelmed in the box office. I mean, look at it in this perspective: South Park, which was one of the most famous shows of the nineties, made less money than the first Pokemon movie. And the only movie that made more money than the first Pokemon movie at that time was the first Rugrats movie. And the Rugrats was nearly a billion dollar franchise by the time that movie happened. And Dragon Ball Z at that time hadn't made anywhere near the amount of money that Rugrats or Pokemon did. I'm not underselling the fact that Dragon Ball Z, in it's heyday, had massive appeal. In its peak era, it was big. But it just wasn't "let's pour millions of dollars into producing a movie" big, like other animated shows at the time were.

Also, in terms of revenue in the US (which the main factor for this debate), the PPG movie actually did better in the box office than Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F combined.

Not exactly. PPG had an anime spin-off that ran for two years (and was made by Toei Animation, ironically), two TV specials both in flash and CGI respectively (the former had a 24-hour marathon building up to it), a tenth anniversary dvd set, a comic book series, and a couple video games in the side. There was still plenty of material put out for the franchise it just wasn't selling like Dragon Ball.

Like I said earlier, Dragon Ball already made over 3 billion before DBZ even hit the states and that's way more than what Rugrats made by 1999. Dragon Ball is known for it's mass appeal and if you don't understand that fact then I dunno what to say to you. I tell you, and showed you that but you keep ignoring it. It's the thing that helped pushed anime from being that nerdy interestto gaining mainstream appeal:

[spoiler]




[/spoiler]

The PPG movie only did because it got a wide release while BoG and RoF was only in select theaters, but even then the PPG movie was a box office failure while BoG and RoF were considered milestones for independent film distributors so it easily could've outdid under the same circumstances. It also made way more worldwide.

[Lord Beerus]

PPG got jackshit in terms new material, whether it be merchandise, videogames or re-releases of the home videos once the show ended in 2005. Dragon Ball was always resurfacing itself in the public eye with yearly videogame in the 2000s and regurgitating merchandise in Japan despite the fact the show had already technically ended in 1996.

Animated TV shows, especially those that had a foreign origin, getting a movie was not exactly a common practice. Even shows that were a big brand name at their time produced movies that underwhelmed in the box office. I mean, look at it in this perspective: South Park, which was one of the most famous shows of the nineties, made less money than the first Pokemon movie. And the only movie that made more money than the first Pokemon movie at that time was the first Rugrats movie. And the Rugrats was nearly a billion dollar franchise by the time that movie happened. And Dragon Ball Z at that time hadn't made anywhere near the amount of money that Rugrats or Pokemon did. I'm not underselling the fact that Dragon Ball Z, in it's heyday, had massive appeal. In its peak era, it was big. But it just wasn't "let's pour millions of dollars into producing a movie" big, like other animated shows at the time were.

Also, in terms of revenue in the US (which the main factor for this debate), the PPG movie actually did better in the box office than Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F combined.

Not exactly. PPG had an anime spin-off that ran for two years (and was made by Toei Animation, ironically), two TV specials both in flash and CGI respectively (the former had a 24-hour marathon building up to it), a tenth anniversary dvd set, a comic book series, and a couple video games in the side. There was still plenty of material put out for the franchise it just wasn't selling like Dragon Ball.

Like I said earlier, Dragon Ball already made over 3 billion before DBZ even hit the states and that's way more than what Rugrats made by 1999. Dragon Ball is known for it's mass appeal and if you don't understand that fact then I dunno what to say to you. I tell you, and showed you that but you keep ignoring it. It's the thing that helped pushed anime from being that nerdy interestto gaining mainstream appeal:

[spoiler]




[/spoiler]

The PPG movie only did because it got a wide release while BoG and RoF was only in select theaters, but even then the PPG movie was a box office failure while BoG and RoF were considered milestones for independent film distributors so it easily could've outdid under the same circumstances. It also made way more worldwide.

The success of Dragon Ball (Z) before it reached any level of major popularity in the states is irrelevant. Just because it made $3 billion before it got its foot in the door in the US really means nothing. It's about determining whether the brand they've got is marketable enough for an audience in the US to bring a lot of money. It's major success in the its home nation (Japan) won't matter that much if they can find any major profit in the US. I mean, Ultraman made over 7$ billion dollars before they decided bring that show over to the states in 2002. And it ended up flopping. Same deal with Sailor Moon*, Gundam and Hamtaro. They were all monster franchises in Japan that had already made billions of dollars and they both just didn't take off in the US. I mean, Sailor Moon gained a cult following as the years went by but its success at the time was nowhere near what Pokemon or Dragon Ball Z was achieving.

Dragon Ball (Z) certainly has worldwide appeal. But it's not going to reached the height of the late 1990s and early 2000s. It just can't. Times have changed. The anime bubble burst. DBZ had that special lighting in a bottle in success that just can't be replicated. We just have to accept that some people moved on. Just like they did with the Pokemon anime. You'll see the reference or shout out to the franchise every so often from people or celebrities, but you really shouldn't use that as evidence to come to conclusion that Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime/manga worldwide. Remember Pokemon Go? And how that became the most popular thing in world? And how many celebrities came out of the woodwork to talk about how they were fans of the show? And how it lead to a major resurgence of everything Pokemon related? Now that is worldwide appeal.

*If you couldn't read the full article, it states that Sailor Moon had generated $1.5 billion in merchandise sales during the first three years of the show and $2.5 Billion by 1996.

[DBZAOTA482]

The success of Dragon Ball (Z) before it reached any level of major popularity in the states is irrelevant. Just because it made $3 billion before it got its foot in the door in the US really means nothing. It's about determining whether the brand they've got is marketable enough for an audience in the US to bring a lot of money. It's major success in the its home nation (Japan) won't matter that much if they can find any major profit in the US. I mean, Ultraman made over 7$ billion dollars before they decided bring that show over to the states in 2002. And it ended up flopping. Same deal with Sailor Moon*, Gundam and Hamtaro. They were all monster franchises in Japan that had already made billions of dollars and they both just didn't take off in the US. I mean, Sailor Moon gained a cult following as the years went by but its success at the time was nowhere near what Pokemon or Dragon Ball Z was achieving.

Dragon Ball (Z) certainly has worldwide appeal. But it's not going to reached the height of the late 1990s and early 2000s. It just can't. Times have changed. The anime bubble burst. DBZ had that special lighting in a bottle in success that just can't be replicated. We just have to accept that some people moved on. Just like they did with the Pokemon anime. You'll see the reference or shout out to the franchise every so often from people or celebrities, but you really shouldn't use that as evidence to come to conclusion that Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime/manga worldwide. Remember Pokemon Go? And how that became the most popular thing in world? And how many celebrities came out of the woodwork to talk about how they were fans of the show? And how it lead to a major resurgence of everything Pokemon related? Now that is worldwide appeal.

*If you couldn't read the full article, it states that Sailor Moon had generated $1.5 billion in merchandise sales during the first three years of the show and $2.5 Billion by 1996.

It's very much relevant as it shows Dragon Ball is more marketable than Rugrats and it's proven pretty much true as well in North America. FOX obviously thought so itself as Dragonball Evolution was made in direct response to Dragon Ball's general popularity.

There's probably other factors that led to those other shows' demise...

I know the series isn't as big as it was in North America like it was back in the day but you've seriously been leaving astray throughout the conversation. I already pretty much agree Pokemon as a whole is a far better franchise but here's the thing... Pokemon is best recognized as a video game series while Dragon Ball is best recognized as an anime series so the answer on most recognizable anime/manga worldwide isn't as clear-cut as you think. In fact, the only time I can imagine the Pokemon anime being more popular is during the whole Pokemon fad back in 1997-2000 and the anime was the Sinnoh arc where it was highly popular in it's own rights while Dragon Ball has been going strong all through the years even if it did decline some during the mid-late 2000's.

As a matter of fact, the movies for Pokemon were dropping significant on box office revenue here with each following movie till Warner Bros stopped distributing them altogether while Battle of Gods and Resurrection F only benefitted each other's theatrical releases. The last two here did much worse and Pokemon movies haven't been in theater since.

[Lord Beerus]

The success of Dragon Ball (Z) before it reached any level of major popularity in the states is irrelevant. Just because it made $3 billion before it got its foot in the door in the US really means nothing. It's about determining whether the brand they've got is marketable enough for an audience in the US to bring a lot of money. It's major success in the its home nation (Japan) won't matter that much if they can find any major profit in the US. I mean, Ultraman made over 7$ billion dollars before they decided bring that show over to the states in 2002. And it ended up flopping. Same deal with Sailor Moon*, Gundam and Hamtaro. They were all monster franchises in Japan that had already made billions of dollars and they both just didn't take off in the US. I mean, Sailor Moon gained a cult following as the years went by but its success at the time was nowhere near what Pokemon or Dragon Ball Z was achieving.

Dragon Ball (Z) certainly has worldwide appeal. But it's not going to reached the height of the late 1990s and early 2000s. It just can't. Times have changed. The anime bubble burst. DBZ had that special lighting in a bottle in success that just can't be replicated. We just have to accept that some people moved on. Just like they did with the Pokemon anime. You'll see the reference or shout out to the franchise every so often from people or celebrities, but you really shouldn't use that as evidence to come to conclusion that Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime/manga worldwide. Remember Pokemon Go? And how that became the most popular thing in world? And how many celebrities came out of the woodwork to talk about how they were fans of the show? And how it lead to a major resurgence of everything Pokemon related? Now that is worldwide appeal.

*If you couldn't read the full article, it states that Sailor Moon had generated $1.5 billion in merchandise sales during the first three years of the show and $2.5 Billion by 1996.

It's very much relevant as it shows Dragon Ball is more marketable than Rugrats and it's proven pretty much true as well in North America. FOX obviously thought so itself as Dragonball Evolution was made in direct response to Dragon Ball's general popularity.

There's probably other factors that led to those other shows' demise...

I know the series isn't as big as it was in North America like it was back in the day but you've seriously been leaving astray throughout the conversation. I already pretty much agree Pokemon as a whole is a far better franchise but here's the thing... Pokemon is best recognized as a video game series while Dragon Ball is best recognized as an anime series so the answer on most recognizable anime/manga worldwide isn't as clear-cut as you think. In fact, the only time I can imagine the Pokemon anime being more popular is during the whole Pokemon fad back in 1997-2000 and the anime was the Sinnoh arc where it was highly popular in it's own rights while Dragon Ball has been going strong all through the years even if it did decline some during the mid-late 2000's.

As a matter of fact, the movies for Pokemon were dropping significant on box office revenue here with each following movie till Warner Bros stopped distributing them altogether while Battle of Gods and Resurrection F only benefitted each other's theatrical releases. The last two here did much worse and Pokemon movies haven't been in theater since.

Pokemon may have started out as a video game series, but the popularity of the anime was in itself its own beast. It's one thing if a franchise has a big videogame base but whether that success can be replicated in other areas is another. Super Mario Bros was the biggest videogame franchise when they decided to make several TV shows based off of it during the peak of it's popularity in the late 80s and early 90s and those TV shows flopped. It was the same case with Sonic The Hedgehog and the several TV show that franchise got during the peak era for the Sonic The Hedgehog videogame franchise in the early to mid 90s. It lead to nothing special.

The Pokemon anime was a very special case. It was significant factor to leading to the franchise taking off in ways in the US that other videogame franchises or foreign animated franchise didn't manage in the past. It just resonated with the Western audience, especially with Americans, in a way that no other anime has/had really been able to replicate. Dragon Ball Z was successful in the US. And I'm sure if a movie was released during it's peak era it would have made some money. But would it have made Pokemon movie level money or even close to that amount? I highly doubt that. The best a Pokemon movie did in the US, when it got major promotion and distribution and was making billions of dollars right out of the gate in the West, was nearly $86 million dollars. And to put that into perspective: it made more money in the America than every other country in the world combined. And that includes Japan. That's insane. Do you really think a Dragon Ball Z movie, even released during it's peak in popularity in America, could come close to that amount of money in box office revenue when the brand name itself was making nowhere near the same amount of money that Pokemon was in the same time period of 1999-2001? Not a chance. Hypothetically, a Dragon Ball Z movie could make $20-25 million on the high of the spectrum and $10-15 million on the low end. But of course it really depends on how well they market it.

Also, Pokemon Heroes and Pokemon 4Ever both received very limited releases. Both movies were in the theaters for less time than the first three movies and was in far fewer screens. Both Battle Of God and Resurrection F, even though they were in theaters for a less amount of time, they were released in far more theaters on a daily basis.