Would you say Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime/manga worldwide?

[DBZAOTA482]

Pokemon may have started out as a video game series, but the popularity of the anime was in itself its own beast. It's one thing if a franchise has a big videogame base but whether that success can be replicated in other areas is another. Super Mario Bros was the biggest videogame franchise when they decided to make several TV shows based off of it during the peak of it's popularity in the late 80s and early 90s and those TV shows flopped. It was the same case with Sonic The Hedgehog and the several TV show that franchise got during the peak era for the Sonic The Hedgehog videogame franchise in the early to mid 90s. It lead to nothing special.

The Pokemon anime was a very special case. It was significant factor to leading to the franchise taking off in ways in the US that other videogame franchises or foreign animated franchise didn't manage in the past. It just resonated with the Western audience, especially with Americans, in a way that no other anime has/had really been able to replicate. Dragon Ball Z was successful in the US. And I'm sure if a movie was released during it's peak era it would have made some money. But would it have made Pokemon movie level money or even close to that amount? I highly doubt that. The best a Pokemon movie did in the US, when it got major promotion and distribution and was making billions of dollars right out of the gate in the West, was nearly $86 million dollars. And to put that into perspective: it made more money in the America than every other country in the world combined. And that includes Japan. That's insane. Do you really think a Dragon Ball Z movie, even released during it's peak in popularity in America, could come close to that amount of money in box office revenue when the brand name itself was making nowhere near the same amount of money that Pokemon was in the same time period of 1999-2001? Not a chance. Hypothetically, a Dragon Ball Z movie could make $20-25 million on the high of the spectrum and $10-15 million on the low end. But of course it really depends on how well they market it.

Also, Pokemon Heroes and Pokemon 4Ever both received very limited releases. Both movies were in the theaters for less time than the first three movies and was in far fewer screens. Both Battle Of God and Resurrection F, even though they were in theaters for a less amount of time, they were released in far more theaters on a daily basis.

I did acknowledge the anime for Pokemon was huge on it's own rights but what I'm saying that is nowadays it no longer has the widespread appeal that it used to. It's still popular with it's target audience but that's pretty much it.

The Simpsons franchise doesn't make the same kind of money Pokemon did but it's movie far outdid any Pokemon movie. Dragon Ball Z was one of the biggest fads during the late 90's and early 00's up there with Pokemon and Brittany Spears if going by the Lycos and Yahoo search ranks, the articles from major publishers that specifically talked about it's popularity, the major influence it had on western work, and it's video releases consistently being top-selling on the billboard records. I'd say it's safe to assume the movies definitely would've made good money if given the chance.

No, Pokemon Heroes and 4Ever showed at roughly the same number of theaters as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. The most logical conclusion is the Pokemon anime simply doesn't have the mass appeal that it used to as each movie released in the states was consistently doing worse to the point where they stopped putting them in theater altogether.

[Lord Beerus]

Pokemon may have started out as a video game series, but the popularity of the anime was in itself its own beast. It's one thing if a franchise has a big videogame base but whether that success can be replicated in other areas is another. Super Mario Bros was the biggest videogame franchise when they decided to make several TV shows based off of it during the peak of it's popularity in the late 80s and early 90s and those TV shows flopped. It was the same case with Sonic The Hedgehog and the several TV show that franchise got during the peak era for the Sonic The Hedgehog videogame franchise in the early to mid 90s. It lead to nothing special.

The Pokemon anime was a very special case. It was significant factor to leading to the franchise taking off in ways in the US that other videogame franchises or foreign animated franchise didn't manage in the past. It just resonated with the Western audience, especially with Americans, in a way that no other anime has/had really been able to replicate. Dragon Ball Z was successful in the US. And I'm sure if a movie was released during it's peak era it would have made some money. But would it have made Pokemon movie level money or even close to that amount? I highly doubt that. The best a Pokemon movie did in the US, when it got major promotion and distribution and was making billions of dollars right out of the gate in the West, was nearly $86 million dollars. And to put that into perspective: it made more money in the America than every other country in the world combined. And that includes Japan. That's insane. Do you really think a Dragon Ball Z movie, even released during it's peak in popularity in America, could come close to that amount of money in box office revenue when the brand name itself was making nowhere near the same amount of money that Pokemon was in the same time period of 1999-2001? Not a chance. Hypothetically, a Dragon Ball Z movie could make $20-25 million on the high of the spectrum and $10-15 million on the low end. But of course it really depends on how well they market it.

Also, Pokemon Heroes and Pokemon 4Ever both received very limited releases. Both movies were in the theaters for less time than the first three movies and was in far fewer screens. Both Battle Of God and Resurrection F, even though they were in theaters for a less amount of time, they were released in far more theaters on a daily basis.

I did acknowledge the anime for Pokemon was huge on it's own rights but what I'm saying that is nowadays it no longer has the widespread appeal that it used to. It's still popular with it's target audience but that's pretty much it.

The Simpsons franchise doesn't make the same kind of money Pokemon did but it's movie far outdid any Pokemon movie. Dragon Ball Z was one of the biggest fads during the late 90's and early 00's up there with Pokemon and Brittany Spears if going by the Lycos and Yahoo search ranks, the articles from major publishers that specifically talked about it's popularity, the major influence it had on western work, and it's video releases consistently being top-selling on the billboard records. I'd say it's safe to assume the movies definitely would've made good money if given the chance.

No, Pokemon Heroes and 4Ever showed at roughly the same number of theaters as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. The most logical conclusion is the Pokemon anime simply doesn't have the mass appeal that it used to as each movie released in the states was consistently doing worse to the point where they stopped putting them in theater altogether.

There's no denying that the Pokemon anime is nowhere near as large in terms as popularity as it used to be, but it still has a presence. The new seasons of the anime still air on Cartoon Network and remains one of the highest rated shows the network has to offer.

By the time The Simpson Movie went into production, The Simpson had already achieved worldwide pop culture icon status. They had a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, for crying out loud. Sp while the core TV audience was a far cry of what they were achieving in the 90s, the franchise was very much already an international phenomenon on the same hierarchy as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Pokemon. Coupled with the fact the show had an insane amount of marketing (I mean, A 7-Eleven store in Seattle transformed into a live action Kwik-E-Mart!), it was bound to make a hell of a lot of money. It also help that movie got really good reviews from critics strengthening it's potential at the box office, whereas the Pokemon movie were panned by critics in general at the time of their release.

Also, you're misinterpreting the data shown on Box Office Mojo. The "weekly" tab represent the average amount of theaters it was shown in for the days corresponding for any given week. They basically add the total amount of theaters a film is shown in for that week so that a weekly grossing figure can be calculated and they approximate the number of theaters the film was show in juxtaposition to that weekly gross figure. So while the "weekly" total of theaters for Resurrection F was 901, Resurrection F had debuted in theaters on August 4 and that the figure was taken from Jul 31st – August 6th. So it's average is in reality based on three days not one full week. So in reality, on a daily basis, Resurrection F and Battle Of Gods were shown in more theaters than Pokemon Heroes or Pokemon 4Ever. That fact is made more apparent by the fact that both those Pokemon movies were grossing much less on a weekly basis than both Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F.

[DBZAOTA482]

There's no denying that the Pokemon anime is nowhere near as large in terms as popularity as it used to be, but it still has a presence. The new seasons of the anime still air on Cartoon Network and remains one of the highest rated shows the network has to offer.

By the time The Simpson Movie went into production, The Simpson had already achieved worldwide pop culture icon status. They had a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, for crying out loud. Sp while the core TV audience was a far cry of what they were achieving in the 90s, the franchise was very much already an international phenomenon on the same hierarchy as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Pokemon. Coupled with the fact the show had an insane amount of marketing (I mean, A 7-Eleven store in Seattle transformed into a live action Kwik-E-Mart!), it was bound to make a hell of a lot of money. It also help that movie got really good reviews from critics strengthening it's potential at the box office, whereas the Pokemon movie were panned by critics in general at the time of their release.

Also, you're misinterpreting the data shown on Box Office Mojo. The "weekly" tab represent the average amount of theaters it was shown in for the days corresponding for any given week. They basically add the total amount of theaters a film is shown in for that week so that a weekly grossing figure can be calculated and they approximate the number of theaters the film was show in juxtaposition to that weekly gross figure. So while the "weekly" total of theaters for Resurrection F was 901, Resurrection F had debuted in theaters on August 4 and that the figure was taken from Jul 31st – August 6th. So it's average is in reality based on three days not one full week. So in reality, on a daily basis, Resurrection F and Battle Of Gods were shown in more theaters than Pokemon Heroes or Pokemon 4Ever. That fact is made more apparent by the fact that both those Pokemon movies were grossing much less on a weekly basis than both Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F.

This may be true but was it anything like when DBZ was on Toonami consistently giving some of the best ratings on cable television and Kai kicking ass on Nicktoons despite all odds? Cartoon Network also dropped Pokemon from their line-up in 2016 and gave it to Disney XD.

That's pretty much what I mean. While Dragon Ball doesn't make nowhere near the amount of money Pokemon does, it still hit western mainstream like a truck (like I told and showed ya) and with the right push, the movies very easily could've made a lot of money.

Don't really care on the daily detail. The very fact it was able to do so much better and only continued to do better despite being shown in less theaters at average is pretty telling the Pokemon anime is all worn out while the Dragon Ball series is still going strong even after all these years, especially considering how each subsequent Pokemon movie was making less and less money till they stopped getting theatrical releases in the states altogether.

[Lord Beerus]

There's no denying that the Pokemon anime is nowhere near as large in terms as popularity as it used to be, but it still has a presence. The new seasons of the anime still air on Cartoon Network and remains one of the highest rated shows the network has to offer.

By the time The Simpson Movie went into production, The Simpson had already achieved worldwide pop culture icon status. They had a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, for crying out loud. Sp while the core TV audience was a far cry of what they were achieving in the 90s, the franchise was very much already an international phenomenon on the same hierarchy as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Pokemon. Coupled with the fact the show had an insane amount of marketing (I mean, A 7-Eleven store in Seattle transformed into a live action Kwik-E-Mart!), it was bound to make a hell of a lot of money. It also help that movie got really good reviews from critics strengthening it's potential at the box office, whereas the Pokemon movie were panned by critics in general at the time of their release.

Also, you're misinterpreting the data shown on Box Office Mojo. The "weekly" tab represent the average amount of theaters it was shown in for the days corresponding for any given week. They basically add the total amount of theaters a film is shown in for that week so that a weekly grossing figure can be calculated and they approximate the number of theaters the film was show in juxtaposition to that weekly gross figure. So while the "weekly" total of theaters for Resurrection F was 901, Resurrection F had debuted in theaters on August 4 and that the figure was taken from Jul 31st – August 6th. So it's average is in reality based on three days not one full week. So in reality, on a daily basis, Resurrection F and Battle Of Gods were shown in more theaters than Pokemon Heroes or Pokemon 4Ever. That fact is made more apparent by the fact that both those Pokemon movies were grossing much less on a weekly basis than both Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F.

This may be true but was it anything like when DBZ was on Toonami consistently giving some of the best ratings on cable television and Kai kicking ass on Nicktoons despite all odds? Cartoon Network also dropped Pokemon from their line-up in 2016 and gave it to Disney XD.

That's pretty much what I mean. While Dragon Ball doesn't make nowhere near the amount of money Pokemon does, it still hit western mainstream like a truck (like I told and showed ya) and with the right push, the movies very easily could've made a lot of money.

Don't really care on the daily detail. The very fact it was able to do so much better and only continued to do better despite being shown in less theaters at average is pretty telling the Pokemon anime is all worn out while the Dragon Ball series is still going strong even after all these years, especially considering how each subsequent Pokemon movie was making less and less money till they stopped getting theatrical releases in the states altogether.

Okay this debate has been going on for too long so I'll just end it on this:

The ratings that Dragon Ball Z achieved in it's day are certainly an indication that there was relatively large fanbase, but at the end of the day, other franchises were kicking its ass in terms of yearly revenue despite those really good ratings it was getting. Ratings is certainly one of the indicators to the popularity of a franchise. But when it comes to an animated franchise, were the main target audience is children, how much money it makes is a far bigger factor to take into consideration, especially if want to make a movie based off of it. Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh weren't the most searched franchises on the internet at that time or gained the ratings that Dragon Ball Z did in its heyday, but they were both making a hell of a lot more money and selling more toys in the West than Dragon Ball Z was in its peak era. And you know what they say: people speak with their wallet.

Trends on internet really shouldn't be used a barometer for potential success because fads can come and go in an instant. What really matters, especially for a franchise like Dragon Ball (Z), is the almighty dollar. And they were many other franchises that were doing much better than Dragon Ball Z at the time financially, despite the fact that Dragon Ball Z was hooking in a decent TV audience. Would a Dragon Ball Z movie had made a decent amount of money if it was released in its peak era of the early 2000s with decent marketing? Yes. Would it have Pokemon movie (the first two) money or Rugrats movie money at that time? No. Dragon Ball Z wasn't a billion dollar franchise in the West like those two franchise were to suggest that a DBZ movie would come close to what those movies made. Dragon Ball Z had certainly achieved great status in in native country of Japan were it became a billion dollar franchise, but that success didn't automatically transition when the franchise got major exposure in the West like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon did.

[DBZAOTA482]

Okay this debate has been going on for too long so I'll just end it on this:

The ratings that Dragon Ball Z achieved in it's day are certainly an indication that there was relatively large fanbase, but at the end of the day, other franchises were kicking its ass in terms of yearly revenue despite those really good ratings it was getting. Ratings is certainly one of the indicators to the popularity of a franchise. But when it comes to an animated franchise, were the main target audience is children, how much money it makes is a far bigger factor to take into consideration, especially if want to make a movie based off of it. Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh weren't the most searched franchises on the internet at that time or gained the ratings that Dragon Ball Z did in its heyday, but they were both making a hell of a lot more money and selling more toys in the West than Dragon Ball Z was in its peak era. And you know what they say: people speak with their wallet.

Trends on internet really shouldn't be used a barometer for potential success because fads can come and go in an instant. What really matters, especially for a franchise like Dragon Ball (Z), is the almighty dollar. And they were many other franchises that were doing much better than Dragon Ball Z at the time financially, despite the fact that Dragon Ball Z was hooking in a decent TV audience. Would a Dragon Ball Z movie had made a decent amount of money if it was released in its peak era of the early 2000s with decent marketing? Yes. Would it have Pokemon movie (the first two) money or Rugrats movie money at that time? No. Dragon Ball Z wasn't a billion dollar franchise in the West like those two franchise were to suggest that a DBZ movie would come close to what those movies made. Dragon Ball Z had certainly achieved great status in in native country of Japan were it became a billion dollar franchise, but that success didn't automatically transition when the franchise got major exposure in the West like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon did.

It ain't over till it's over.

It's not just the ratings or search rankings though. It got headlines from major publishers (in fact, it was the first anime on the Wall Street Journal), it's VHS and DVD were top-sellers (it's in fact the best-selling anime brand in the United States), the video games sold like hotcakes, and it generally hit mainstream Western culture like a truck.... particularly since it was most people's introduction to the world of anime. It may not have sold as much as Pokemon, Power Rangers, and possibly Yu-Gi-Oh! in merchandise... but it definitely has the mass appeal to back it up.

Also, the Rugrats franchise made far less in merchandise than Dragon ball and I doubt it's sales are exclusive to America so I don't see how a DBZ movie can't measure up to the Rugrat movie money especially when the last DBZ movies (well past the pick era) did so well.

[Lord Beerus]

Okay this debate has been going on for too long so I'll just end it on this:

The ratings that Dragon Ball Z achieved in it's day are certainly an indication that there was relatively large fanbase, but at the end of the day, other franchises were kicking its ass in terms of yearly revenue despite those really good ratings it was getting. Ratings is certainly one of the indicators to the popularity of a franchise. But when it comes to an animated franchise, were the main target audience is children, how much money it makes is a far bigger factor to take into consideration, especially if want to make a movie based off of it. Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh weren't the most searched franchises on the internet at that time or gained the ratings that Dragon Ball Z did in its heyday, but they were both making a hell of a lot more money and selling more toys in the West than Dragon Ball Z was in its peak era. And you know what they say: people speak with their wallet.

Trends on internet really shouldn't be used a barometer for potential success because fads can come and go in an instant. What really matters, especially for a franchise like Dragon Ball (Z), is the almighty dollar. And they were many other franchises that were doing much better than Dragon Ball Z at the time financially, despite the fact that Dragon Ball Z was hooking in a decent TV audience. Would a Dragon Ball Z movie had made a decent amount of money if it was released in its peak era of the early 2000s with decent marketing? Yes. Would it have Pokemon movie (the first two) money or Rugrats movie money at that time? No. Dragon Ball Z wasn't a billion dollar franchise in the West like those two franchise were to suggest that a DBZ movie would come close to what those movies made. Dragon Ball Z had certainly achieved great status in in native country of Japan were it became a billion dollar franchise, but that success didn't automatically transition when the franchise got major exposure in the West like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon did.

It ain't over till it's over.

It's not just the ratings or search rankings though. It got headlines from major publishers (in fact, it was the first anime on the Wall Street Journal), it's VHS and DVD were top-sellers (it's in fact the best-selling anime brand in the United States), the video games sold like hotcakes, and it generally hit mainstream Western culture like a truck.... particularly since it was most people's introduction to the world of anime. It may not have sold as much as Pokemon, Power Rangers, and possibly Yu-Gi-Oh! in merchandise... but it definitely has the mass appeal to back it up.

Also, the Rugrats franchise made far less in merchandise than Dragon ball and I doubt it's sales are exclusive to America so I don't see how a DBZ movie can't measure up to the Rugrat movie money especially when the last DBZ movies (well past the pick era) did so well.

It's kind of contradictory to say that Dragon Ball Z had mass appeal and yet other franchises, some of which didn't have the same amount of exposure that Dragon Ball Z did in the West in its peak era, made much money that Dragon Ball Z did on a yearly basis. If Dragon Ball Z truly had the mass appeal that you are referring to than it would have reflect in profit, because ultimately, that is the most telling indication of just how much people know about a franchise, or at the very least, are invested in it. And the numbers don't lie, people were more willing spend money on Digimon, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh than they were willing to do so on Dragon Ball Z. Whether that is an indication of quality is irrelevant in this scenario. Children, teenagers and adults were ultimately more drawn into by those franchise than they were for Dragon Ball Z, despite what the ratings and internet trends at the time indicated.

Speaking in terms of the how well it was performing in the West, as I mention constantly in regards to the context of popularity, yes, the Rugrats was making much more money than DBZ was. The Rugrats was a billion dollar franchise* by the time Dragon Ball Z got its foot in the door in the US (1999) and nothing indicated that Dragon Ball Z generated anywhere near that same amount of money during its absolute peak in popularity in the West (2000-2003).

Also, the videogames did moderately well, but they weren't selling like hotcakes. Dragon Ball Z Budokai sold just over 2 millions copies in the US, and that remained the best a Dragon Ball videogame did in terms of sales in the US until Xenoverse was released more than a decade later. And those sales itself were a drop in the ocean compared to how well many other videogames were selling at that time. Is sure as hell didn't sell anything close to the top ten highest grossing games of that year. And in regards to VHS sales, Pokemon at the time (2003) was also doing much better.**

* Page 46: "An estimated $1.4 Billion dollars or Rugrats merchandise has been sold from dolls to toothpaste."
** "From a video released May 2003 - Over 25 million videos sold! #1 for kids Top-rated shows for boys 6-11!"

[Cure Dragon 255]

God I love you both Lord Beerus and DBZOTA but this is ridiculous, I think you are both kind of right, Lord is right that others might be more recognizable but DBZOTA IS also right in that you are comparing fads to the mainstay knowledge of Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball has never been of the air since it arrived to western shores and it makes a shit load of money for Toei. And even my mom and my Cable-less maid know what Dragon Ball is and as my niece is about to be born she's also a grandma. So please stop this silly thing. Neither of you is going to convince the other and it has taken over the entire thread...

...Unless its allowed by the mods. Then you can indeed continue. LOL.

[Basaku]

Recognizability, influence and 'soft' brand-power cannot be strictly measured in merch or toy sales. Obviously you need at least a certain level of popularity (and thus merch business) to become influental and recognizable, but just as ratings, these are raw numbers that don't tell the whole story.

The Dark Knight toy line was not particularly successful, yet the movie is widely considered one of the greatest and most influental comic book movie ever. Mean Girls movie "only" made $129 million at the worldwide box office yet it's one of the most quotable movies ever.

Dragon Ball merch sales may not have been as high as Rugrats, but it literally created, rebuilt or massively expanded (together with Sailor Moon) the market for anime & manga in many countries around the world in the 90s and early 00s. That's something Rugrats never did and never will for one.

[Lord Beerus]

Recognizability, influence and 'soft' brand-power cannot be strictly measured in merch or toy sales. Obviously you need at least a certain level of popularity (and thus merch business) to become influental and recognizable, but just as ratings, these are raw numbers that don't tell the whole story.

The Dark Knight toy line was not particularly successful, yet the movie is widely considered one of the greatest and most influental comic book movie ever. Mean Girls movie "only" made $129 million at the worldwide box office yet it's one of the most quotable movies ever.

Dragon Ball merch sales may not have been as high as Rugrats, but it literally created, rebuilt or massively expanded (together with Sailor Moon) the market for anime & manga in many countries around the world in the 90s and early 00s. That's something Rugrats never did and never will for one.

Since when? I could name about 20 movies off of the top of my head that are quoted way more than Mean Girls ever was.

And while I'll give Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon credit for expanding the market for anime and manga in many countries, anime and manga like Mazinger Z, Akira, Great Mazinger, UFO Robo Grendizer, Captain Harlock and Saint Seiya significantly aided in, not just laying down the foundation, but also building the empire for which anime and manga have in the market across the world. Especially in central Europe and Latin America.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Nobody adressed what I said... LOL.

[Bullza]

* Page 46: "An estimated $1.4 Billion dollars or Rugrats merchandise has been sold from dolls to toothpaste."
** "From a video released May 2003 - Over 25 million videos sold! #1 for kids Top-rated shows for boys 6-11!"

Well to be fair Dragon Ball kind of does one better in that regard.

• Dragon Ball Z is the # 1 selling anime brand of all-time. Over 25 million DVDs & Blu-rays of the Dragon Ball franchise have been sold in the U.S. (Source: Nielsen VideoScan)

• Over 15 million video games of the Dragon Ball franchise have been sold in the U.S. - with over 40 million sold worldwide.

• Over $5 billion in Dragon Ball merchandise has been sold worldwide.

That was as of December 2014 so it'd be much higher now at least for the games and merchandise.

[WittyUsername]

To answer the OP's question, outside of Pokemon which is a video game franchise first and foremost, I'd definitely say that Dragon Ball (or the 'Z' portion more specifically) is indeed the most recognizable manga/anime series. The Super Saiyan transformation alone is a very iconic image.

[lancerman]

Dragon Ball is the most recognizable anime based off a manga. Pokemon is more popular though. Both are still going, but you don't see too many Dragon Ball characters as floats in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade

[DBZAOTA482]

Okay this debate has been going on for too long so I'll just end it on this:

The ratings that Dragon Ball Z achieved in it's day are certainly an indication that there was relatively large fanbase, but at the end of the day, other franchises were kicking its ass in terms of yearly revenue despite those really good ratings it was getting. Ratings is certainly one of the indicators to the popularity of a franchise. But when it comes to an animated franchise, were the main target audience is children, how much money it makes is a far bigger factor to take into consideration, especially if want to make a movie based off of it. Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh weren't the most searched franchises on the internet at that time or gained the ratings that Dragon Ball Z did in its heyday, but they were both making a hell of a lot more money and selling more toys in the West than Dragon Ball Z was in its peak era. And you know what they say: people speak with their wallet.

Trends on internet really shouldn't be used a barometer for potential success because fads can come and go in an instant. What really matters, especially for a franchise like Dragon Ball (Z), is the almighty dollar. And they were many other franchises that were doing much better than Dragon Ball Z at the time financially, despite the fact that Dragon Ball Z was hooking in a decent TV audience. Would a Dragon Ball Z movie had made a decent amount of money if it was released in its peak era of the early 2000s with decent marketing? Yes. Would it have Pokemon movie (the first two) money or Rugrats movie money at that time? No. Dragon Ball Z wasn't a billion dollar franchise in the West like those two franchise were to suggest that a DBZ movie would come close to what those movies made. Dragon Ball Z had certainly achieved great status in in native country of Japan were it became a billion dollar franchise, but that success didn't automatically transition when the franchise got major exposure in the West like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon did.

It ain't over till it's over.

It's not just the ratings or search rankings though. It got headlines from major publishers (in fact, it was the first anime on the Wall Street Journal), it's VHS and DVD were top-sellers (it's in fact the best-selling anime brand in the United States), the video games sold like hotcakes, and it generally hit mainstream Western culture like a truck.... particularly since it was most people's introduction to the world of anime. It may not have sold as much as Pokemon, Power Rangers, and possibly Yu-Gi-Oh! in merchandise... but it definitely has the mass appeal to back it up.

Also, the Rugrats franchise made far less in merchandise than Dragon ball and I doubt it's sales are exclusive to America so I don't see how a DBZ movie can't measure up to the Rugrat movie money especially when the last DBZ movies (well past the pick era) did so well.

It's kind of contradictory to say that Dragon Ball Z had mass appeal and yet other franchises, some of which didn't have the same amount of exposure that Dragon Ball Z did in the West in its peak era, made much money that Dragon Ball Z did on a yearly basis. If Dragon Ball Z truly had the mass appeal that you are referring to than it would have reflect in profit, because ultimately, that is the most telling indication of just how much people know about a franchise, or at the very least, are invested in it. And the numbers don't lie, people were more willing spend money on Digimon, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh than they were willing to do so on Dragon Ball Z. Whether that is an indication of quality is irrelevant in this scenario. Children, teenagers and adults were ultimately more drawn into by those franchise than they were for Dragon Ball Z, despite what the ratings and internet trends at the time indicated.

Speaking in terms of the how well it was performing in the West, as I mention constantly in regards to the context of popularity, yes, the Rugrats was making much more money than DBZ was. The Rugrats was a billion dollar franchise* by the time Dragon Ball Z got its foot in the door in the US (1999) and nothing indicated that Dragon Ball Z generated anywhere near that same amount of money during its absolute peak in popularity in the West (2000-2003).

Also, the videogames did moderately well, but they weren't selling like hotcakes. Dragon Ball Z Budokai sold just over 2 millions copies in the US, and that remained the best a Dragon Ball videogame did in terms of sales in the US until Xenoverse was released more than a decade later. And those sales itself were a drop in the ocean compared to how well many other videogames were selling at that time. Is sure as hell didn't sell anything close to the top ten highest grossing games of that year. And in regards to VHS sales, Pokemon at the time (2003) was also doing much better.**

* Page 46: "An estimated $1.4 Billion dollars or Rugrats merchandise has been sold from dolls to toothpaste."
** "From a video released May 2003 - Over 25 million videos sold! #1 for kids Top-rated shows for boys 6-11!"

It's not a contradiction at all. I even brought up The Simpsons to show that merchandise sales aren't everything as there's nothing indicating it was making that kind of money per year during that stretch in it's merch or does it sell like the Pokemon franchise as a whole. Like Cure Dragon said, you're comparing fads to the mainstay knowledge of Dragon Ball. Besides, it's not just ratings and internet trends... it also made major press that specifically talked about it's popularity which no way would happen if the show was some niche cartoon.

Again, it took Rugrats almost 10 years to make just over a billion dollars in merchandise and it's almost certainly based on global sales. Dragon Ball already over twice that in merchandise worldwide and within a similar timespan so no... Rugrats wasn't making more money than Dragon Ball.

A video game needs to sell at least about 500,000 units worldwide to be a commercial success depending on how big the budget it is and these games obviously don't have the same money invested into them like bigger titles. The major DBZ games were selling over a million units per game in North America alone which is actually very impressive especially for a licensed game franchise. It's obviously not as big as some bigger titles but those numbers aren't anything to scoff at all.

The DVD releases of Dragon Ball Z sold over 25 million units in the US alone... implying it sold a lot more worldwide making the #1 best-selling anime brand according to FUNimation's Catalogue. This probably doesn't include VHS sales though but they frequently ranked high in the billboard records for VHS sales. It's card games were also top-sellers during a time the market was dominated by Pokemon trading cards.

Pokemon video releases may have made over 25 million units but most of it was during the whole Pokemon fad.

[Lord Beerus]

It ain't over till it's over.

It's not just the ratings or search rankings though. It got headlines from major publishers (in fact, it was the first anime on the Wall Street Journal), it's VHS and DVD were top-sellers (it's in fact the best-selling anime brand in the United States), the video games sold like hotcakes, and it generally hit mainstream Western culture like a truck.... particularly since it was most people's introduction to the world of anime. It may not have sold as much as Pokemon, Power Rangers, and possibly Yu-Gi-Oh! in merchandise... but it definitely has the mass appeal to back it up.

Also, the Rugrats franchise made far less in merchandise than Dragon ball and I doubt it's sales are exclusive to America so I don't see how a DBZ movie can't measure up to the Rugrat movie money especially when the last DBZ movies (well past the pick era) did so well.

It's kind of contradictory to say that Dragon Ball Z had mass appeal and yet other franchises, some of which didn't have the same amount of exposure that Dragon Ball Z did in the West in its peak era, made much money that Dragon Ball Z did on a yearly basis. If Dragon Ball Z truly had the mass appeal that you are referring to than it would have reflect in profit, because ultimately, that is the most telling indication of just how much people know about a franchise, or at the very least, are invested in it. And the numbers don't lie, people were more willing spend money on Digimon, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh than they were willing to do so on Dragon Ball Z. Whether that is an indication of quality is irrelevant in this scenario. Children, teenagers and adults were ultimately more drawn into by those franchise than they were for Dragon Ball Z, despite what the ratings and internet trends at the time indicated.

Speaking in terms of the how well it was performing in the West, as I mention constantly in regards to the context of popularity, yes, the Rugrats was making much more money than DBZ was. The Rugrats was a billion dollar franchise* by the time Dragon Ball Z got its foot in the door in the US (1999) and nothing indicated that Dragon Ball Z generated anywhere near that same amount of money during its absolute peak in popularity in the West (2000-2003).

Also, the videogames did moderately well, but they weren't selling like hotcakes. Dragon Ball Z Budokai sold just over 2 millions copies in the US, and that remained the best a Dragon Ball videogame did in terms of sales in the US until Xenoverse was released more than a decade later. And those sales itself were a drop in the ocean compared to how well many other videogames were selling at that time. Is sure as hell didn't sell anything close to the top ten highest grossing games of that year. And in regards to VHS sales, Pokemon at the time (2003) was also doing much better.**

* Page 46: "An estimated $1.4 Billion dollars or Rugrats merchandise has been sold from dolls to toothpaste."
** "From a video released May 2003 - Over 25 million videos sold! #1 for kids Top-rated shows for boys 6-11!"

It's not a contradiction at all. I even brought up The Simpsons to show that merchandise sales aren't everything as there's nothing indicating it was making that kind of money per year during that stretch in it's merch or does it sell like the Pokemon franchise as a whole. Like Cure Dragon said, you're comparing fads to the mainstay knowledge of Dragon Ball. Besides, it's not just ratings and internet trends... it also made major press that specifically talked about it's popularity which no way would happen if the show was some niche cartoon.

Again, it took Rugrats almost 10 years to make just over a billion dollars in merchandise and it's almost certainly based on global sales. Dragon Ball already over twice that in merchandise worldwide and within a similar timespan so no... Rugrats wasn't making more money than Dragon Ball.

A video game needs to sell at least about 500,000 units worldwide to be a commercial success depending on how big the budget it is and these games obviously don't have the same money invested into them like bigger titles. The major DBZ games were selling over a million units per game in North America alone which is actually very impressive especially for a licensed game franchise. It's obviously not as big as some bigger titles but those numbers aren't anything to scoff at all.

The DVD releases of Dragon Ball Z sold over 25 million units in the US alone... implying it sold a lot more worldwide making the #1 best-selling anime brand according to FUNimation's Catalogue. This probably doesn't include VHS sales though but they frequently ranked high in the billboard records for VHS sales. It's card games were also top-sellers during a time the market was dominated by Pokemon trading cards.

Pokemon video releases may have made over 25 million units but most of it was during the whole Pokemon fad.

On yearly basis, at least from 2008, yes, The Simpsons makes a hell of a lot of money. And speaking strictly in terms of popularity, yes, Dragon Ball Z was, by all means a fad as well. The franchise exploded in popularity in the early 2000s in the US, but it's never reached that same level of status since. Some major publication took the opportunity to put the spotlight on the show because it was one of the "big things" for a short time. Much like with the Pokemon anime and how Pikachu basically became a cultural icon in the West. I mean, Pikachu was ranked as the "second best person of the year" by Time magazine in 1999 (and even specified the franchise's profits for the year as "the reason for the ranking", behind singer Ricky Martin but ahead of author J.K. Rowling), appeared in a "Got Milk?" advertisement and a Pikachu balloon has been featured in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade since 2001. Yeah, Dragon Ball videogame every year, but they are mostly forgotten in the public eye very soon after. Some people may have an attachment to Dragon Ball Z, but the nostalgia that the public has for the Pokemon anime runs much deeper. The English Pokemon theme for the first season of the anime, which was already very iconic in it's own right, exploded in popularity like you wouldn't believe when Pokemon Go took off in July last year.If that doesn't show how much the original Pokemon anime is still recognized and adored, I don't what will. I mean, no offence, but has any kind of extensional Dragon Ball (Z) material, or the anime itself, had a resurgence or retroactive recognition like that in the West? The best case you make is Battle Of Gods, Resurrection F and maybe Kai. But that really doesn't match up to much all that well to how much the essence of the Pokemon anime catapulted itself back into the worldwide eye last year in the summer.

The only videogame that really seemed to make a name for itself since Budokai 1 in 2003 was Xenoverse... more than 10 years later. And videogame sales for Dragon Ball (Z) actually cooled down a lot in the US after Budokai 1. And in amazing bit of irony, Japan and Europe was really were the interest in Dragon Ball games really started to show. In fact, after doing a little bit of digging, I found out from Burst Limit and an onward, Dragon Ball games were not even managing to shift over a million copies in total worldwide. Tenkaichi 3 was actually the last Dragon Ball (Z) games to sell over a million copies worldwide. Everything else after that until Xenoverse occurred actually did worse in terms of sale than Tenkaichi 3.

Do you really think the even a fraction of a fraction of the 3 billion dollars in profit that Dragon Ball generated from 1986 to 2000 came from the the West or the US specifically? 95% of that money came from Japan, because that was where Dragon Ball was a household name in that period. Japan was where all the videogames, movies and merchandise was initially released and where the show garnered its best ratings on television. And much like the the Rugrats in America, Dragon Ball in its native county (Japan), from the 1980s to the 1990s, was where the largest core fanbase of the show was and where most of its money was made. That's not to say that the show wasn't known in other countries, but its popularity in other countries just didn't compare at all to how well the show performed in it's native country of Japan.

Think about this context: It took fourteen years (2000 - 2014) for Dragon Ball to reach the 5 billion dollar threshold of profit worldwide. It took 14 years for Dragon Ball total franchise worth to be raised by two billion dollars. Pokemon can make the same amount of money, if not even more, in one year. Two years tops. If Dragon Ball was going as well as it was in its peak period, I'm sure that number (5 billion dollars) would be have actually been much higher by 2014.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

Like everyone has been Saiyan, Pokemon is by far the most popular/recognizable anime-manga series worldwide. I mean, people in their 40s or up may never have played or watched it, but they certainly know something about it through their kids or through just being alive in recent decades. Pikachu and the Pokeball are global franchise icons instantly recognizable as say Darth Vader's helmet. Goku and Dragon Ball is widely known by anyone who has ever been slightly interested in geek culture in the last 20-30 years. Also, Pokemon, although certainly not as popular as it was during the pokemania of the late 90s, has been enjoying continuous franchise success through new games, series, and rebooting itself every 4 years. DB, on the other hand, was pretty much dormant from the end of Z to the inception of Super. Although for our generation, Goku may be as popular (actually probably more) than Superman, my parents, and anyone over 50 knows nothing about him or has never heard of the DB franchise for that matter.

I would definitely say that worldwide, Dragon Ball is far more popular than any other shonen anime series, above the likes of Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, and Fairy Tail (even though OP is the best selling manga series of all time, but that's mainly because of its incredible mainstream popularity in Japan). In the actual world of anime, in the long run, nothing comes close to DB, obviously because it's been around for so long and was what got so many people into anime back in the day or was the first big shonen series they ever watched.