Goku's character

[Lord Beerus]

Goku's an interesting character for sure. A bit more layered than people give him credit for.. a blue collar, challenge hungry, ridiculously strong, confident man-child that occasionally has to reconcile with the burden of responsibility thrown on him as "Earth's Savior".

Unfortunately Super has robbed him of almost every trait that made him a likable and layered character, reducing him to a single IQ, one dimensional adrenaline junkie.

I don't really agree with that assessment at all. Goku may act a bit more naive once every while but he's not a flat out idiot and he still makes the most a battle or a challenge, despite the dangers it may bring. The Goku we see in Super is really no different at all to the one we see in DB or Z.

[Gog]

Black fired a missile at him so he killed him. Fans keep referring to this great change where Goku is suddenly more merciful to his enemies. It's not really an arc. It seems more like a change, if there is one at all, Toriyama made unconsciously. It's not dramatized as a change Goku consciously made.

I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but Goku sparing Freeza wasn't a moral act. It's a reckless act. That act of mercy was wrong.

Black was also getting away. Goku outright stated that he doesn't let bad guys get away, he kicked the missile away, and then when Black was running away he killed him. There never was any reason to kill Black besides him being bad, and getting away. Which makes the change between Goku, and when he was a child even better.

It's never outright stated that Goku's changed a lot since he was a child, but it's definitely there. Yeah, and isn't that the whole point? Goku dislikes taking lives, and he also wants to have more battles with Freeza on a whole.

[ABED]

Which makes the change between Goku, and when he was a child even better.

Not if it's inconsistent. You make it out to be this grand change that shows something about his character and it comes across as so happenstance as opposed to deliberate development.

[Gog]

Not if it's inconsistent. You make it out to be this grand change that shows something about his character and it comes across as so happenstance as opposed to deliberate development.

But, wasn't your whole argument how Goku's never changed from when he was a child? And, it is a big change from when he was a child. And I'm going to have to ask, how is his character development inconsistent?

[ABED]

Not if it's inconsistent. You make it out to be this grand change that shows something about his character and it comes across as so happenstance as opposed to deliberate development.

But, wasn't your whole argument how Goku's never changed from when he was a child? And, it is a big change from when he was a child. And I'm going to have to ask, how is his character development inconsistent?

I said IF and I don't agree. It's not a big change, if it is at all. That's not a development, if at all, it's inconsistent. Why would he all of a sudden be more merciful? What changed during that time? I've seen a number of conjectures on this forum, but there's nothing in the text that implies or shows Goku making a conscious decision to change. The only thing I can think of is that he's more inclined to let a strong opponent go than he is a weaker one, but it's rarely if ever out of mercy. In Freeza's case, mostly, but it's mostly about letting them live to fight another day. And I didn't say he never changed. I said he never fundamentally changed.

[TheUltimateVegito]

He's definitely multi-dimensional imo. I went into why in my character analysis on him:
viewtopic.php?t=33421

[ekrolo2]

He's currently suffering from the same obnoxious thing as more or less every other character. Some intense circumstances happen, he reacts to it then takes 0 steps to avert them happening.

Like how Freeza's done AAALLLLL this shit to him and he's still stupid enough not to keep him on a leash tight enough to choke the existence out of him.

[hectorgf]

Goku is an incredibly flawed and unconventional character. He's not your standard hero/superhero in the slightest. His characteristics and mannerisms just makes him stand out so much from the usual, generic, two dimensional shonen manga/anime protagonists we see these days. And I love him for that more than anything and I hope he continues to act like this.

Son Goku rules!

Hmm... Actually, along with the original Dragon Ball series, he's way more a traditional hero than a selfish person. Since he always leaves his pride to solve the problem, in other words, he's aware that the priority is solving the problem.
Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time), but in the end, his priorities always is the Earth and his friends. Even because he is not a bad person, not even a dumb guy, so he knows that an innocent life is not less important than his personal desire.

[Boo Machine]

Hmm... Actually, along with the original Dragon Ball series, he's way more a traditional hero than a selfish person. Since he always leaves his pride to solve the problem, in other words, he's aware that the priority is solving the problem.
Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time), but in the end, his priorities always is the Earth and his friends. Even because he is not a bad person, not even a dumb guy, so he knows that an innocent life is not less important than his personal desire.

If his priorities were to save Earth and his Friends, he wouldn't have spared Piccolo, he wouldn't have let Vegeta go, and he wouldn't have let Gero build Death machines that he was told destroy the whole world. No one denies that Goku cares for his Family and the earth. But Goku's priorities have always been the next big challenge.

[hectorgf]

Hmm... Actually, along with the original Dragon Ball series, he's way more a traditional hero than a selfish person. Since he always leaves his pride to solve the problem, in other words, he's aware that the priority is solving the problem.
Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time), but in the end, his priorities always is the Earth and his friends. Even because he is not a bad person, not even a dumb guy, so he knows that an innocent life is not less important than his personal desire.

If his priorities were to save Earth and his Friends, he wouldn't have spared Piccolo, he wouldn't have let Vegeta go, and he wouldn't have let Gero build Death machines that he was told destroy the whole world. No one denies that Goku cares for his Family and the earth. But Goku's priorities have always been the next big challenge.

I commented it on the same post you've replied...
"Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time)"

It's always the same thing. He takes an imprudent decision but always ensuring that he will resolve the problem.
His fight against Piccolo was the unique battle that he just fought for himself. The rest of them it was always for the earth and his friends. Otherwise, he would deny Piccolo, Gohan and Kulilin's help against Freeza, and he would never accept the idea of fusing with Vegeta.

When the situation is controllable he tries to conciliate his desire with the responsabiçlity, when it's not, then his priorities are ALWAYS the safe of the others. On an overall average, fighting for the earth and his friends is his major priority.

[Boo Machine]

Hmm... Actually, along with the original Dragon Ball series, he's way more a traditional hero than a selfish person. Since he always leaves his pride to solve the problem, in other words, he's aware that the priority is solving the problem.
Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time), but in the end, his priorities always is the Earth and his friends. Even because he is not a bad person, not even a dumb guy, so he knows that an innocent life is not less important than his personal desire.

If his priorities were to save Earth and his Friends, he wouldn't have spared Piccolo, he wouldn't have let Vegeta go, and he wouldn't have let Gero build Death machines that he was told destroy the whole world. No one denies that Goku cares for his Family and the earth. But Goku's priorities have always been the next big challenge.

I commented it on the same post you've replied...
"Of course he always tries to conciliate that, the desire of fighting (leaving Vegeta alive) and the taking the responsibility (claiming that he will beat Vegeta the next time)"

It's always the same thing. He takes an imprudent decision but always ensuring that he will resolve the problem.
His fight against Piccolo was the unique battle that he just fought for himself. The rest of them it was always for the earth and his friends. Otherwise, he would deny Piccolo, Gohan and Kulilin's help against Freeza, and he would never accept the idea of fusing with Vegeta.

When the situation is controllable he tries to conciliate his desire with the responsabiçlity, when it's not, then his priorities are ALWAYS the safe of the others. On an overall average, fighting for the earth and his friends is his major priority.

While he does go for the more logical option when his back is against the wall, He is still the cause of the problems because of his desire to fight. He maybe taking responsibility for Vegeta by saying he will beat him next time, but if his Number 1 priority was to keep the earth and his friends safe, then he wouldn't have done that. His acknowledgment that it's selfish doesn't make it less selfish.

Because he could have easily have been wrong. He makes mistakes. Like when he fuses with Vegeta to fight Buu, but when Buu gets weaker he refuses to fuse with Vegeta again, because he is pretty confident that he can win on his own. But he was wrong, and he pretty much admits as much after fighting for a bit. He gave up a sure victory because he wanted to fight Kid buu one on one, despite the fact that the whole universe was at stake and him and Vegeta were the last line of defense. If they lost that would be it, the universe is finished.

Not saying Goku is a bad guy of course and I wouldn't want him to change who he is. Goku is interesting as is for a reason. Obviously keeping the earth safe is a priority, but it's rarely ever his main priority.

[hectorgf]

While he does go for the more logical option when his back is against the wall, He is still the cause of the problems because of his desire to fight. He maybe taking responsibility for Vegeta by saying he will beat him next time, but if his Number 1 priority was to keep the earth and his friends safe, then he wouldn't have done that. His acknowledgment that it's selfish doesn't make it less selfish.

Because he could have easily have been wrong. He makes mistakes. Like when he fuses with Vegeta to fight Buu, but when Buu gets weaker he refuses to fuse with Vegeta again, because he is pretty confident that he can win on his own. But he was wrong, and he pretty much admits as much after fighting for a bit. He gave up a sure victory because he wanted to fight Kid buu one on one, despite the fact that the whole universe was at stake and him and Vegeta were the last line of defense. If they lost that would be it, the universe is finished.

Not saying Goku is a bad guy of course and I wouldn't want him to change who he is. Goku is interesting as is for a reason. Obviously keeping the earth safe is a priority, but it's rarely ever his main priority.

You're being too "black and white". He IS selfish, I've never denied it. Being selfish but also taking the responsibility shows that he cares about what can happen. Just look at him after this decision. He asks Kaioh-sama if it was a bad decision, and while he is training in the spaceship and explaining what is happening in Namekusei, he says that the trouble that Gohan and everyone was involved was his fault. That denotes he knows that wasn't good a good decision, and if he knew how bad it was, he wouldn't do that (because of the safety of his friends and the Earth) and now he is trying to solve everything he did.

Look, as I said, he tries to conciliate everything, at these situations he is neither 100% responsible or 100% selfish, he is 50% - 50%: "Let me do it my way, but I'll do it".

Even in this scene that he is pretty confident that he can defeat Boo, he regrets to have broken the potara, because he knew it wasn't about his pride anymore because the situation wasn't under his control, then the priority was solving the problem. That's why when Vegeta gives the idea of doing the Genkidama, he accepts. He accepts Vegeta, Boo, Mr Satan, and, above all things, EVERYONE'S help.

He is usually 50%-50%, but when the situation is above his powers, he is totally 100% responsible.
If you make a hypothetical average, you'll see that he is more responsible than a selfish guy.

[Boo Machine]

You're being too "black and white". He IS selfish, I've never denied it. Being selfish but also taking the responsibility shows that he cares about what can happen. Just look at him after this decision. He asks Kaioh-sama if it was a bad decision, and while he is training in the spaceship and explaining what is happening in Namekusei, he says that the trouble that Gohan and everyone was involved was his fault. That denotes he knows that wasn't good a good decision, and if he knew how bad it was, he wouldn't do that (because of the safety of his friends and the Earth) and now he is trying to solve everything he did.

Look, as I said, he tries to conciliate everything, at these situations he is neither 100% responsible or 100% selfish, he is 50% - 50%: "Let me do it my way, but I'll do it".

Even in this scene that he is pretty confident that he can defeat Boo, he regrets to have broken the potara, because he knew it wasn't about his pride anymore because the situation wasn't under his control, then the priority was solving the problem. That's why when Vegeta gives the idea of doing the Genkidama, he accepts. He accepts Vegeta, Boo, Mr Satan, and, above all things, EVERYONE'S help.

He is usually 50%-50%, but when the situation is above his powers, he is totally 100% responsible.
If you make a hypothetical average, you'll see that he is more responsible than a selfish guy.

I feel if I was being too "Black and White" about it, I would be saying these actions makes Goku a bad guy. Which I didn't because they don't. I'm just stating what actually happens in the story and what's said in the story. I'm not making anything up. I know he takes responsibility. I know he regrets his decisions sometimes. I know he puts aside his pride for the greater good.

But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of problems could have been avoided if his main priority was to protect rather than the thrill of the challenge. He regrets his decision after he has made it, and then continues to make similar decisions in the future. He regrets breaking the potara, because he got his butt kicked and as it turns out couldn't do the job after all. THEN he decided to put aside his pride and solve the problem. AFTER the problem got out of hand. Not before when he had the chance to nip it in the bud. He takes responsibility for situations he caused and could have avoided if he didn't want to fight.

My point is that, to Goku in most situations, the fight comes first, and everything else will work out later, probably.

[hectorgf]

I feel if I was being too "Black and White" about it, I would be saying these actions makes Goku a bad guy. Which I didn't because they don't. I'm just stating what actually happens in the story and what's said in the story. I'm not making anything up. I know he takes responsibility. I know he regrets his decisions sometimes. I know he puts aside his pride for the greater good.

But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of problems could have been avoided if his main priority was to protect rather than the thrill of the challenge. He regrets his decision after he has made it, and then continues to make similar decisions in the future. He regrets breaking the potara, because he got his butt kicked and as it turns out couldn't do the job after all. THEN he decided to put aside his pride and solve the problem. AFTER the problem got out of hand. Not before when he had the chance to nip it in the bud. He takes responsibility for situations he caused and could have avoided if he didn't want to fight.

My point is that, to Goku in most situations, the fight comes first, and everything else will work out later, probably.

The concept of priority is "the most important thing", if he regrets, let his pride aside, and start to act to solve the problem, it's because his pride is NOT the priority, because saving the Earth is.
The two sacrifices he did is the living proof of that. He just did the maximum example of an altruist action (sacrifice yourself for the others) without looking for get some fun before it happens.
His initial decision is less important than the conclusion. Even because his initial and imprudent decision is not 100% imprudent. Trying to clarify what I am saying:

Bulma would be a 100% responsible person, that wanted to destroy Gero before he did something

Vegeta would be a 0% responsible person, and 100% selfish, that just want to fight against them, and if something went wrong, or he would fight until die, not accepting a defeat, or he would ran away. If you look at those actions and imagine possibles dialogues (what it's not a hard exercise to do, because his personality in this arc is really easy to understand), in both cases he would be just acting for himself.

Goku would be a 50%-responsible-50%-selfish person, he would fight against them with his ''heart'' just looking for the battle, and his conscience looking for the state of innocent people, always trying to avoid their involvement, and if something went wrong, he would just do his best to solve everything, even if it needs the help of everyone. If you agree with me, you'll probably see these numbers again (50%-50% and then just 100%).

[hectorgf]

Oh, and I've forgot to mention this scene which Goku declares in a good tone that he will defeat Freeza FOR the ones he killed

http://englishfortamils.com/comics/cach ... 07_795.jpg

(sorry...I'm really not used to forums, then I don't even know how to post images hahaha)

[Boo Machine]

The concept of priority is "the most important thing", if he regrets, let his pride aside, and start to act to solve the problem, it's because his pride is NOT the priority, because saving the Earth is.
The two sacrifices he did is the living proof of that. He just did the maximum example of an altruist action (sacrifice yourself for the others) without looking for get some fun before it happens.
His initial decision is less important than the conclusion. Even because his initial and imprudent decision is not 100% imprudent. Trying to clarify what I am saying:

Bulma would be a 100% responsible person, that wanted to destroy Gero before he did something

Vegeta would be a 0% responsible person, and 100% selfish, that just want to fight against them, and if something went wrong, or he would fight until die, not accepting a defeat, or he would ran away. If you look at those actions and imagine possibles dialogues (what it's not a hard exercise to do, because his personality in this arc is really easy to understand), in both cases he would be just acting for himself.

Goku would be a 50%-responsible-50%-selfish person, he would fight against them with his ''heart'' just looking for the battle, and his conscience looking for the state of innocent people, always trying to avoid their involvement, and if something went wrong, he would just do his best to solve everything, even if it needs the help of everyone. If you agree with me, you'll probably see these numbers again (50%-50% and then just 100%).

How are his initial decisions less important than the conclusion? If his initial decision was to go with Bulmas plan to gather the Dragonballs and find out where Gero is and stop him from creating androids, then that would be putting priority into stopping the problem and protecting the earth before it even happens rather than what actually happened and choosing to train and wait for the androids because he wanted to test his strength against scary robot death machines, which is because of his actual priority to fight.

He wouldn't need to take responsibility for a good chunk of his problems if he wanted to solve the problem in the manner that would bring the cleanest solution and save everyone trouble. I know Goku is both Selfish and selfless. You don't have to keep throwing made up percentages. No one is even saying Goku is 100% one side or the other, These percentages don't mean much. Just look at what Goku does gives anyone reading or watching all they need to know about Goku.

He has sacrificed himself. We get that he can be a hero. A few instances of Goku being selfless or even a Hero doesn't change the fact that there are just as many instances of him choosing the more exciting route instead of choosing the route that would save the earth trouble.

Using the Vegeta example again, If he wanted to make the initial decision to protect everyone first by letting Krillin kill vegeta , then the conclusion would have been that he protected everyone despite that fact that he wanted to fight. Responsible. But that isn't what happened. His initial decision was to let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight him again, endangering the earth again.

Just because goku isn't 100% selfish doesn't make his some of decisions less selfish and in some cases very dangerous to everyone around him. Something Goku himself is aware of but doesn't change all that much if any.

[hectorgf]

How are his initial decisions less important than the conclusion? If his initial decision was to go with Bulmas plan to gather the Dragonballs and find out where Gero is and stop him from creating androids, then that would be putting priority into stopping the problem and protecting the earth before it even happens rather than what actually happened and choosing to train and wait for the androids because he wanted to test his strength against scary robot death machines, which is because of his actual priority to fight.

He wouldn't need to take responsibility for a good chunk of his problems if he wanted to solve the problem in the manner that would bring the cleanest solution and save everyone trouble. I know Goku is both Selfish and selfless. You don't have to keep throwing made up percentages. No one is even saying Goku is 100% one side or the other, These percentages don't mean much. Just look at what Goku does gives anyone reading or watching all they need to know about Goku.

He has sacrificed himself. We get that he can be a hero. A few instances of Goku being selfless or even a Hero doesn't change the fact that there are just as many instances of him choosing the more exciting route instead of choosing the route that would save the earth trouble.

Using the Vegeta example again, If he wanted to make the initial decision to protect everyone first by letting Krillin kill vegeta , then the conclusion would have been that he protected everyone despite that fact that he wanted to fight. Responsible. But that isn't what happened. His initial decision was to let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight him again, endangering the earth again.

Just because goku isn't 100% selfish doesn't make his some of decisions less selfish and in some cases very dangerous to everyone around him. Something Goku himself is aware of but doesn't change all that much if any.

The percentages have the function to illustrate what I want to say, but I'll translate them into words now.
A person who chooses the risky way to solve the problem is NOT a totally irresponsible person. The example that I used Bulma, Vegeta and Goku was very clarifying
In Goku's mind (yeah, I'll count what he thinks, because it's about his personality that we're talking about), he CAN solve the problem in the way he chose, he does an imprudent decision knowing that was selfish but knowing that he'll take care of everything. He DOES things thinking in the good result for everyone.

And if we look at his actions in general, we do see much more altruist scenes than selfish ones, it's not like there's "a few moments of Goku being a hero".
He resurrected Bora without receiving anything in return, he looked for revenge his friends killed by Piccolo Daimaoh, and not looking for a good challenge or something like this, we see him incapable of letting Piccolo kills Tenshin, and was several damaged because of that. We see him trying to rescue his son, and killing himself for Earth's fate, and not for having fun, we saw him training to defeat the saiyans, going to Namek to rescue his friends, beating Ginyu Special Forces without any interest in them, and sparing their lives, and Goku himself answers Vegeta when he asked if he wasn't interested in Freeza, he just answered "I would like to see him, but this is NOT the PRIORITY now", we see Goku declaring in good tone he will defeat Freeza FOR the people he killed, and then, he spared the evil emperor's life, and not because of any selfish desire, but because the villain asked for help.

There's way more moments ahead, but just these ones I've listed is way more present than his selfish decisions. So, no, his representation is way more substantiated in a good person that cares about others, than a person who makes selfish decisions (which was sparing Vegeta's life, not killing Gero, and breaking the potara. I don't think sparing Piccolo's life and giving a senzu bean to Cell are related to it).

[Boo Machine]

The percentages have the function to illustrate what I want to say, but I'll translate them into words now.
A person who chooses the risky way to solve the problem is NOT a totally irresponsible person. The example that I used Bulma, Vegeta and Goku was very clarifying
In Goku's mind (yeah, I'll count what he thinks, because it's about his personality that we're talking about), he CAN solve the problem in the way he chose, he does an imprudent decision knowing that was selfish but knowing that he'll take care of everything. He DOES things thinking in the good result for everyone.

Yes, and he it's not only selfish but Dumb to do so, because he is wrong sometimes. Just because he THINKS he can solve the problem on his own doesn't mean he can, and we have seen a few times where it turns out he can't. The argument was that he puts his Friends and earth first. If he did, he wouldn't be taking those risks. What he thinks he can do doesn't matter because he is still choosing to put loved ones at risk when he doesn't have to.

And if we look at his actions in general, we do see much more altruist scenes than selfish ones, it's not like there's "a few moments of Goku being a hero".
He resurrected Bora without receiving anything in return, he looked for revenge his friends killed by Piccolo Daimaoh, and not looking for a good challenge or something like this, we see him incapable of letting Piccolo kills Tenshin, and was several damaged because of that. We see him trying to rescue his son, and killing himself for Earth's fate, and not for having fun, we saw him training to defeat the saiyans, going to Namek to rescue his friends, beating Ginyu Special Forces without any interest in them, and sparing their lives, and Goku himself answers Vegeta when he asked if he wasn't interested in Freeza, he just answered "I would like to see him, but this is NOT the PRIORITY now", we see Goku declaring in good tone he will defeat Freeza FOR the people he killed, and then, he spared the evil emperor's life, and not because of any selfish desire, but because the villain asked for help.

And there are moments where his priorities are selfish. Letting Piccolo go because he wanted thought killing him would be a shame and lose him a worthy rival. Granted there is some of saving Kami and the Dragonballs in the decision. Letting vegeta go because he wants to fight him again. Letting Freeza go despite knowing what a scumbag he is. Letting gero build the androids. Straight up lying for the sake of a good fight like he did in the Buu arc. Where instead of going SSJ 3 and stopping Majin Vegeta right away, he chooses to fight Vegeta equally saying it was his full power, and thus releasing Majin Buu. A problem he caused. Then says he can't kill Fat Buu, only to admit later that he could. Then crushing the Potara for a fair fight only to find out it was a bad decision AFTER he gets beaten up.

But none of this even matters. How many Selfless moments and how many Selfish moments hardly matters, because we aren't counting how many moments he has in order to stick some label of Good guy or bad guy on him. We know he is a good guy with flaws. I'm not here to say Goku isn't a hero. But I am saying he isn't the Super hero that puts everyone first and himself second. At the very least not all time time. Having more moments where he cares about his friends and wants to save them first doesn't negate any of the acts where he puts them in direct danger for selfish reasons.

[hectorgf]

Yes, and he it's not only selfish but Dumb to do so, because he is wrong sometimes. Just because he THINKS he can solve the problem on his own doesn't mean he can, and we have seen a few times where it turns out he can't. The argument was that he puts his Friends and earth first. If he did, he wouldn't be taking those risks. What he thinks he can do doesn't matter because he is still choosing to put loved ones at risk when he doesn't have to.

Then now we're not talking about selfishness, we're talking about self-confidence. And what I said wasn't that he puts his friend and earth first, I said that in the end, the major priority is always everyone else, because he equally equilibrates the desire of fight and save everyone at the beginning, and at the end, he just thinks in solving the problem. Then making an average he cares more about his friends and earth.

And there are moments where his priorities are selfish. Letting Piccolo go because he wanted thought killing him would be a shame and lose him a worthy rival. Granted there is some of saving Kami and the Dragonballs in the decision. Letting vegeta go because he wants to fight him again. Letting Freeza go despite knowing what a scumbag he is. Letting gero build the androids. Straight up lying for the sake of a good fight like he did in the Buu arc. Where instead of going SSJ 3 and stopping Majin Vegeta right away, he chooses to fight Vegeta equally saying it was his full power, and thus releasing Majin Buu. A problem he caused. Then says he can't kill Fat Buu, only to admit later that he could. Then crushing the Potara for a fair fight only to find out it was a bad decision AFTER he gets beaten up.

But none of this even matters. How many Selfless moments and how many Selfish moments hardly matters, because we aren't counting how many moments he has in order to stick some label of Good guy or bad guy on him. We know he is a good guy with flaws. I'm not here to say Goku isn't a hero. But I am saying he isn't the Superhero that puts everyone first and himself second. At the very least not all time time. Having more moments where he cares about his friends and wants to save them first doesn't negate any of the acts where he puts them in direct danger for selfish reasons.

The first moment you've said is not that selfish, actually is almost the minor part of the real point because Kami's life and the Dragon Balls were involved, then he chose to spare Piccolo's life and beat him every time he attacks. He just conciliated things. The Vegeta, Gero and Potara's case I've already said, I don't even know why you've pointed these ones. Letting Freeza go wasn't a selfish case, quite the opposite, he was thinking about HELPING the villain, and he was innocent enough to believe in his redemption. Super saiyan 3 is just a Deus Ex Machina. It's just inconsiderable.
In the end, we have 3 cases of selfishness, if you want to count the SSJ 3 Ex Machina, 4, while I've said more than 10 good actions until the Freeza Saga, and even quoted a dialogue said by Goku himself, telling what is the priority in a determined moment.

[Boo Machine]

Then now we're not talking about selfishness, we're talking about self-confidence. And what I said wasn't that he puts his friend and earth first, I said that in the end, the major priority is always everyone else, because he equally equilibrates the desire of fight and save everyone at the beginning, and at the end, he just thinks in solving the problem. Then making an average he cares more about his friends and earth.

We're not talking about self confidence. I don't know how you got there. We are still very much discussion selfishness. If anything his over self confidence is what fuels his bad decisions. It doesn't matter if AFTER everything goes to shit he decides to solve the problem. It matters if his decision is what caused the problem in the first place. If Goku Makes a decision that puts his friends and the earth in danger, so he could fulfill his own desires, then that's it. It was a selfish decision. No amount of him making up for his blunder negates the fact that he put them in that situation in the first place. It doesn't just balance out. A good action doesn't erase a bad one.

The first moment you've said is not that selfish, actually is almost the minor part of the real point because Kami's life and the Dragon Balls were involved, then he chose to spare Piccolo's life and beat him every time he attacks. He just conciliated things. The Vegeta, Gero and Potara's case I've already said, I don't even know why you've pointed these ones. Letting Freeza go wasn't a selfish case, quite the opposite, he was thinking about HELPING the villain, and he was innocent enough to believe in his redemption. Super saiyan 3 is just a Deus Ex Machina. It's just inconsiderable.
In the end, we have 3 cases of selfishness, if you want to count the SSJ 3 Ex Machina, 4, while I've said more than 10 good actions until the Freeza Saga, and even quoted a dialogue said by Goku himself, telling what is the priority in a determined moment.

Goku isn't a math problem. His decisions don't all hold the same value of 1 and it's not like "10 Good decisions - 4 bad decisions = 6 good decisions ".Him saving Uppas dads life doesn't give him a free card to spare Vegeta and endanger millions, because it's not the same t hing. Him asking for help in solving the problem of Kidd buu doesn't erase the fact that he had 3 other moments to stop it in the first place but he just chose not to. 4 if you want to count when he was Vegetto. If he caused the problem or had the opportunity to stop the problem but chose not to, then him deciding not to be selfish dick and make it worse just means he is taking responsibility for his own mess.

And a little off topic, SSJ 3 isn't a Deus Ex Machina. Being a Deus Ex Machina implies this form was the form that solved everyones problems. But it's the form that doesn't even have a single win under it's belt. No one has ever won a fight ever using SSJ 3, except for that one movie.

Honestly I've kind of lost track of what you're trying to get across here. That Goku is more hero than selfish moron? If so Cool, I agree. But it doesn't mean all his decisions are for the greater good. Which is all I'm am trying to say, and I'm pretty sure you've acknowledged a few times.