Pan as main character

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Goe
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Pan as main character

Post by Goe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Hi mates, long time without posting here!

Well, the other day I was thinking Pan in the final chapters of original manga/DBZ was a charismatic and cool character: she was a female version of kid Goku. Like Goku, she loves fight and can defeat a muscled man like Mokkekko, in the same way Goku knocked huge guys in 21st tournament. Sadly, in GT they turned her in an insufferable person...but please let's forget it! GT doesn't count!

So, I was thinking...how about a sequel with Pan as main character? Gohan could ask his good friend Piccolo to train her. By the way, when Goku decided to train Oob, he promised to visit his family once every year, so he could train Pan too once a year, when he is visiting his family. Once Pan reaches a good level, Goku could train Pan and Oob at the same time. And Pan could be the new main character.

I'm talking about Pan replacing Goku as main character, but please don't misunderstand me! I love Goku. Along with Bardock, he is my favourite character...but I think Goku has been exploited as a character, and he doesn't give more of himself as a character...and Dragon Ball needs to be renewed. With Goku as main character, It's hard to make good stories once he went with Oob in old 1995. All Goku stories since 1996 have been leastwise mediocre...and a new main character could renew our dear DB universe...and Pan is a great aspirant to take Goku's relief.

Well, that's all. Post your opinions!!

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People who doesn't like the idea of Pan being the main character

8000 Saiyan
ABED
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Last edited by Goe on Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Cure Dragon 255
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:46 pm

I know Toriyama could turn her into an awesome character, but that would require them to go past the End Of Z which so far seems to be a no-no for Toriyama and or Toei.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:29 pm

I like Pan, but I'm not interested in another character being the main character.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:30 pm

I don't think they'll ever replace Goku as the main character simply because he's far too iconic as the face of the series. That said, I could see Pan becoming a main character as part of the primary ensemble in the same way that Gohan did throughout Z.

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by precita » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:27 pm

The best you could hope for is Super gives Pan a big role if they ever timeskip to after DBZ.

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Vijay » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 pm

I like your points.

Pan trained by Gohan

Oob trained by Goku

Who knows? They could both be future Goku & Bulma searching for DragonBalls

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by MozillaVulpix » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:57 pm

I mean, it could work, honestly. If you decide GT didn't happen/wasn't important. I think the biggest thing you'd have to deal with, though, is the power scale. If you want it to be a sort of soft reboot with Pan starting out in small-scale adventures and maybe getting her own friends along the way, you'd need to explain why the older cast aren't jumping in immediately if she might be in danger. They're all beyond Super Saiyans and can basically deal with anything that Pan could struggle with.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:10 am

Oh, yes absolutely. DBS has failed to do anything interesting with Gokuu and I think its time for the next generation to take over. Gokuu had a good enough run throughout the original series. They just aren't going anywhere interesting with him at all. He's stuck in that same position for like forever. Gokuu's my favorite and always will be, but give him a rest.

Pan, Oob and even Bra would work. The series will somewhat feel refreshed and I for one want a little newness in this franchise which Toriyama and company haven't been able to do with the current cast. I want this franchise to take a risk for once.

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by TheZFighter » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:53 am

I'd like to see a "next generation" where they run with Trunks, Goten, Marron, Uub, Bulla and Pan as the main characters.

I am a big fan of the "let's just completely forget GT" idea.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Boo Machine » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:56 am

As long as they can bring some of that wackiness of the Original Dragonball then sure. It's hard to imagine anyone but Goku as the lead role, but if they're going to keep this franchise going, then try some crazy radical shit.

Not that Pan being main character is what I'd call crazy and or radical but it would be interesting to see what they could do with it.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:14 am

No to the next generation taking over. Pan can be an important character but not the main character. If they haven't done anything interesting with Goku, the solution isn't to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep him as the main character. Switching main characters after a lengthy run simply doesn't work as well. I think people are a bigger fan of the IDEA of the next generation taking over than ever actually seeing it.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Vijay » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:39 am

ABED wrote:No to the next generation taking over. Pan can be an important character but not the main character. If they haven't done anything interesting with Goku, the solution isn't to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep him as the main character. Switching main characters after a lengthy run simply doesn't work as well. I think people are a bigger fan of the IDEA of the next generation taking over than ever actually seeing it.
True.

I personally appreciated Toriyama's attempt at the IDEA of Next Gen taking over in Buu Arc

But its execution (Trunks & Goten were less-likable & their fused Gotenks was apocalypse, while Gohan stuck with rusty skills/potential abuse) forced me to STOP shipping Next Gen & revert to classic veterans as Goku & Veggie

In this case, as long as Pan, Bulla, Maron, Oob are infused with vintage, old-school Toriyama "fun, entertaining" characterizations I might actually abandon the old school fighter

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by coola » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:17 am

Since Buu Saga, i started to really dislike Goku, and I'm all to replace him as main character, just not with Kid Goten and Trunks.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:20 am

coola wrote:Since Buu Saga, i started to really dislike Goku, and I'm all to replace him as main character, just not with Kid Goten and Trunks.
Why do you hate him?
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by coola » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:25 am

ABED wrote:
coola wrote:Since Buu Saga, i started to really dislike Goku, and I'm all to replace him as main character, just not with Kid Goten and Trunks.
Why do you hate him?
In Buu Saga, it ws his fault Buu got released, since he didnt want to hurt Vegeta pride, and then he had nerve to say "Kids have to take care of it, since i shouldnt be around here anymore". And then in Super, he became really dumb and childish.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:15 am

coola wrote:
ABED wrote:
coola wrote:Since Buu Saga, i started to really dislike Goku, and I'm all to replace him as main character, just not with Kid Goten and Trunks.
Why do you hate him?
In Buu Saga, it ws his fault Buu got released, since he didnt want to hurt Vegeta pride, and then he had nerve to say "Kids have to take care of it, since i shouldnt be around here anymore". And then in Super, he became really dumb and childish.
Yeah, retcons suck. In all seriousness, doesn't it strike you as out of character for Goku to want to spare Vegeta's pride and not fight him at his maximum?

Goku's always been dumb and childish.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Goe » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:25 am

I really apreciate your opinions. Thanks for replying!
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I know Toriyama could turn her into an awesome character, but that would require them to go past the End Of Z which so far seems to be a no-no for Toriyama and or Toei.
I am not sure about Toriyama and Toei don't want to go past the end of Z again. DBS story occurs between Boo saga and "Oob saga" but once they have covered that 10 years, I guess they'll go pass the end od Z.
8000 saiyan wrote:I like Pan, but I'm not interested in another character being the main character.
Then, do you think Goku should be always the main character? Or do you think Goku could be replaced, but not by Pan?
BlueBasilisk wrote:I don't think they'll ever replace Goku as the main character simply because he's far too iconic as the face of the series
I also think they won't ever replace Goku but in any case, I like the idea...and I'd like seeing Pan as a main character.
Vijay wrote:I like your points.

Pan trained by Gohan

Oob trained by Goku

Who knows? They could both be future Goku & Bulma searching for DragonBalls
I said Pan trained by Piccolo, not by Gohan. The reason I said Piccolo and not Gohan is because Gohan doesn't like martial arts and Piccolo loves them. Even Gohan doesn't like fighting, he knows martial arts can save lifes because he had to fight against evil guys since he was a child, so I guess he wants Pan to learn martial arts, but he doesn't want to train her himself because he wish abandon martial artist life. So I guess he'd ask his best friend and first trainer Piccolo to train Pan. And Piccolo, who has a fighter soul and is Gohan's best friend, would happily train her. And I agree about an arc about Oob and Pan searching dragonballs would be cool.
MozillaVulpix wrote:I mean, it could work, honestly. If you decide GT didn't happen/wasn't important. I think the biggest thing you'd have to deal with, though, is the power scale. If you want it to be a sort of soft reboot with Pan starting out in small-scale adventures and maybe getting her own friends along the way, you'd need to explain why the older cast aren't jumping in immediately if she might be in danger. They're all beyond Super Saiyans and can basically deal with anything that Pan could struggle with.
I 100% agree
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Oh, yes absolutely. DBS has failed to do anything interesting with Gokuu and I think its time for the next generation to take over. Gokuu had a good enough run throughout the original series. They just aren't going anywhere interesting with him at all. He's stuck in that same position for like forever. Gokuu's my favorite and always will be, but give him a rest.

Pan, Oob and even Bra would work. The series will somewhat feel refreshed and I for one want a little newness in this franchise which Toriyama and company haven't been able to do with the current cast. I want this franchise to take a risk for once.
I 100% agree
TheZFighter wrote:I'd like to see a "next generation" where they run with Trunks, Goten, Marron, Uub, Bulla and Pan as the main characters.

I am a big fan of the "let's just completely forget GT" idea.
I 100% agree
Boo Machine wrote:As long as they can bring some of that wackiness of the Original Dragonball then sure. It's hard to imagine anyone but Goku as the lead role, but if they're going to keep this franchise going, then try some crazy radical shit.

Not that Pan being main character is what I'd call crazy and or radical but it would be interesting to see what they could do with it.
I think with Pan as main character, there is a chance to bring wackiness of Original Dragon Ball. For example, her trainer Piccolo could leave her alone in a wild scenario, like he did with Gohan, and then Pan could live her own adventures in the same way Goku did when he was a child.
ABED wrote:No to the next generation taking over. Pan can be an important character but not the main character. If they haven't done anything interesting with Goku, the solution isn't to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep him as the main character. Switching main characters after a lengthy run simply doesn't work as well. I think people are a bigger fan of the IDEA of the next generation taking over than ever actually seeing it.
Goku is over as main character since 1995. Goku stories were great in 1984-1995 manga, but he doesn't give more of himself as a character because he has been already exploited in all this posibilities as a character. Goku is a great character but he need a rest as main character.
Vijay wrote:True.

I personally appreciated Toriyama's attempt at the IDEA of Next Gen taking over in Buu Arc

But its execution (Trunks & Goten were less-likable & their fused Gotenks was apocalypse, while Gohan stuck with rusty skills/potential abuse) forced me to STOP shipping Next Gen & revert to classic veterans as Goku & Veggie

In this case, as long as Pan, Bulla, Maron, Oob are infused with vintage, old-school Toriyama "fun, entertaining" characterizations I might actually abandon the old school fighter
Well, When Boo saga was created, Goku still gave a little more of himself. On the other hand, Goten, Trunks and their fusion Gotenks are in fact less-likable, but Pan has more charisma than that characters. About Gohan, he has good points because he killed Cell, and did a decent role in Saiyans and Freeza's saga (if they could kill raditz was thanks to Gohan), but despite of that facts, Gohan has a personality opposite to that of his father and this fact make difficult for Gohan to replace Goku, while Pan is more like Goku and she loves to fight since her early childhood.

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Re: Pan as main character

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:27 am

Then, do you think Goku should be always the main character? Or do you think Goku could be replaced, but not by Pan?
He should always be the main character. Other characters can get focus, but he's still the central character. DB is his story.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:58 am

I think she can be written as a strong character but I don't think she has what it takes to carry a show. Gohan and Vegeta have been around since Z and even they don't have what it takes to lead DB without Goku.

DB is Goku and he can be the best character in a situation when he's written right so no to replacing him, at least not permanently (at this point the only one who can take over temorarily is Vegeta).
Boo Machine wrote:As long as they can bring some of that wackiness of the Original Dragonball then sure.

It's hard to imagine anyone but Goku as the lead role, but if they're going to keep this franchise going, then try some crazy radical shit.

Not that Pan being main character is what I'd call crazy and or radical.
Trying to do that is what killed GT, DB is has been known for its action and huge scale fights since Z and trying to go back before that will hurt the franchise and story.

That's what they're doing with the 12 universe.

Replacing Goku with an unknown female character is as crazy as you can go with this franchise and that's saying a lot.

ABED wrote:I think people are a bigger fan of the IDEA of the next generation taking over than ever actually seeing it.
I'd assume most people would drop it if that happened, even its supporters.
Vijay wrote:I personally appreciated Toriyama's attempt at the IDEA of Next Gen taking over in Buu Arc but its execution forced me to STOP shipping Next Gen & revert to classic veterans as Goku & Veggie.
I liked the roles they had for what they were (holding Buu off until Goku and Vegeta were back in the picture) but trying to write an entire show around them wouldn't work simply because of who these characters are. Writing interesting characters isn't as easy as some think it is let alone writing characters that can replace the likes of Goku and Vegeta.
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Re: Pan as main character

Post by Goe » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:22 am

ABED wrote:
Then, do you think Goku should be always the main character? Or do you think Goku could be replaced, but not by Pan?
He should always be the main character. Other characters can get focus, but he's still the central character. DB is his story.
That question was for 8000 saiyan. Your opinion about that point was clear since your first post here. By the way, I forgot to express mi opinion about your idea of people are a bigger fan of the IDEA of the next generation taking over than ever actually seeing it. How do you know that? If Toriyama/Toei haven't create new sagas with net generation taking over, we can't already know people would dislike it. And logically, it's supposed that people who like that idea will enjoy if that idea come true, and being fan of an idea that you don't want come true isn't logical, so I guess your apreciation about people who likes the idea of next generation taking over but don't want that idea coming true is mistaken.
sintzu wrote:I think she can be written as a strong character but I don't think she has what it takes to carry a show. Gohan and Vegeta have been around since Z and even they don't have what it takes to lead DB without Goku.
Vegeta was a great character, but his role was perfect as an antagonist/secondary character, not as main character. Being a cool character doesn't mean work as a main character. Gohan didn't work as a main character because his personality was different to Goku's, but Pan is kind of a female version of Kid Goku, so I guess she could work as new main character.
sintzu wrote:Trying to do that is what killed GT, DB is has been known for its action and huge scale fights since Z and trying to go back before that will hurt the franchise and story.
No, that is what killed GT was destroying cool characters (Pan being insufferable and weak, Goku being as dumb as usual, Vegeta being retired of fighting and with an awful design with moustache, etc) and incoherences. I agree about in GT they tried to return to DB origins, but they didn't know how to develop that idea in a good way, and one handicap to develop that idea in a good way was Goku being main character.

Let's imagine Piccolo is training Pan and he leave her alone in a wild scenario like he did with Gohan. Then, Pan could travel, know new characters and fight agains new villains. We don't really Know DBZ's Pan power level, so she could have problems fighting with enemies like Giran, Major Metallitron or General Blue, so we could return to the origins without destroying cool character or falling in incoherences
Replacing Goku with an unknown female character is as crazy as you can go with this franchise and that's saying a lot.
Do you think if Gohan and Videl would have a son instead of a daughter, that male grandson of Goku would have more posibilities to be accepted than Pan, only because Pan is female? In my opinion, that point of view is wrong.

I think the fact that Pan is female isn't a problem because he could have exactly the same personality as Goku. By the way, Kid Pan and Kid Goku's design isn't radically different.

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