DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:31 pm

"Blood and death became more common in Z" Are you kidding me? Did you forget the freaking bloodbath that ensued on the Piccolo Daimaoh arc? And that the Dragon Balls were destroyed so it was almost permanent?
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:41 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:"Blood and death became more common in Z" Are you kidding me? Did you forget the freaking bloodbath that ensued on the Piccolo Daimaoh arc? And that the Dragon Balls were destroyed so it was almost permanent?
I didn't forget, which is why I chose to say more common. I don't think there was as much blood in the Piccolo Daimao arc, but the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai notoriously has a ton of blood in it. But those are just a fraction of the early chapters of Dragon Ball. Radditz forward, Goku gets a gaping hole in his stomach, Piccolo and Tenshinhan lose arms, Vegeta versus just about anyone on Namek is a bloodbath, and let's not forget Freeza eating Krillin's blood after lancing his chest. Yes, pre-Raditz Dragonball had bloody scenes, but they didn't become the norm until post-Raditz.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:50 pm

Let's take a look see.

Hunt for the Dragon Balls & Twenty-First Tenka'ichi Budoukai: 0 deaths.
Red Ribbon Army: Buyon, Captain Yellow, General Blue, Bora, Tao Pai-Pai (at the time of serialization), Commander Red, Adjutant Black, pretty much a hundred grunts
Twenty-Second Tenka'ichi Budoukai: Kuririn
Piccolo Daimaou Arc: Tambourine, Cymbal, Drum, Piano, Piccolo Daimaou, Muten Roushi, Chaozu, Giran, various other martial artists
Twenty-Third Tenka'ichi Budoukai: 0 deaths.
Saiyan arc: Son Gokuu, Raditz, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Chaozu, Nappa, a city of people

It looks to me like plenty of folks died before the Saiyan arc, many of them named.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:58 pm

sintzu wrote:
ABED wrote:But that's not what a stand alone series is. The simplicity of the story doesn't mean it stands alone.
If you can watch something without having to watch what came before it (again, you should) then I think that's what a standalone story is.

I look at DB the same way, you don't have to watch Z or anything else to enjoy it as its own thing.
Then anything can qualify as a stand alone story. It's far easier to make the case that you can watch DB without watching DBZ because it starts from the beginning and has a conclusion.
there is a marked change in tone in the story from the chapter Raditz arrives.
The story changed tone throughout DB and DBZ.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:55 pm

LuckyCat wrote:Blood and death become more common and only the very strongest fighters participate in the series. There's also fewer kid-friendly aesops compared to Goku's child years.
I'm not saying that this is for sure the case, but statements like this make it sounds like you've never actually WATCHED or READ pre-Z DB and are simply regirgitating incorrect cliches that people often say about it on the internet. What you're describing here is like, the first HALF of original DB. At best. There's a whole giant second half of it where its virtually indistinguishable from Z. Blood and death and "fewer-kid friendly aesops" and all (I'm fairly sure even the more lighthearted first half had zero "aesops" whatsoever too: also leads one to think that you simply don't know what you're talking about here).
LuckyCat wrote:The change was so remarkable that Toei approached Toriyama and asked permission to rebrand the anime series. So, considering these factors, you could say DBZ is a standalone series depicting Goku's adult life.
Goku became an adult before Z started. For starters.

Secondly the changes you're describing started and had developed WAY before the Z rebranding. The Z rebranding was the anime only belatedly catching up to what Toriyama had been doing with the series well years before that point.

Thus, you have entire story arcs of pre-Z DB material that is virtually identical in its style to what DBZ would become known for. The only reason that this isn't more well known and spoken of is because SO stupidly many fans never even bother to so much as GLANCE at the pre-Z stuff, and feel confident in judging it, sight unseen, based on stereotypes that mainly apply to the Pilaf (and to a lesser extent the Red Ribbon) material and thus spread this meme that original DB is an "optional comedic prequel". Its neither optional, nor is it a prequel, and VAST stretches of it are no more comedic than Z is.

Getting so hung up on the Z branding is a HUGE mistake, because it was done SO belatedly late after Toriyama's changes in tone had been made that it frankly comes across as exactly what it is in its story placement: 100% arbitrary. You could move that rebranding back one, two, or possibly even THREE story arcs previously, and it honestly would not make THAT big of a difference. Hell you could even more it FORWARD to Freeza. Would the Saiya-jin arc feel THAT out of place with the two Piccolo arcs? Not really, no. (Hint: because this was NEVER at any point actually two different series and the divide is completely meaningless)

Z is just a letter in the alphabet that Toei tacked on when they did. It does NOTHING to denote when DB's change in tone had ACTUALLY started. The divide being made at that specific point in the story is 100% artificial and meaningless. If it REALLY mattered THAT much as so many fans today seem to be dead set on believing, then the shift from Piccolo to Raditz would be STRIKING and leave the reader/viewer positively reeling with how different everything suddenly is.

That's NOT how it plays out. Anime OR manga. At all. Raditz and the Saiya-jin flow organically and naturally as just the next storyline following Piccolo and the 23rd Budokai. Same tone, same level of violence, same style of fighting, everything. Because that changeover happened A) VERY gradually, not suddenly on a dime, and B) had started back way, way, way, WAY sooner in the series.

By starting at Z and never, ever going back to even LOOK at DB, you're doing yourself a huge disservice not only from a storytelling perspective, but also more simply because you're just pointlessly, needlessly denying yourself of what effectively amounts to vastly more material that is effectively just more of Dragon Ball Z in all but that one fucking letter at the end. That ONE STUPID LETTER is enough to make droves and droves of fans think "Nah, I don't need at least three more whole extra story arcs worth of DBZ in my life."

Its their loss ultimately, but it does do damage in helping to spread this completely made up narrative that that Z letter is THE definitive, unwaveringly precise marker of when you should start caring about and be invested in this series, because NOTHING that comes before it is ANYTHING the least bit like it. Because that's the exact, diametric opposite of the reality of what that material is actually like.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:07 pm

This is a situation where's Toriyama's words ring true. Amidst the plot changes, and the retcons, the original japanese manga From Goku as a child to Goku taking off with Uub, is called Dragonball. The anime may divide the series', the western market may divide the series', but to Toriyama, it's all the same series.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:07 pm

Saying DBZ is stand alone is like saying Part 3 of Jojo or Naruto Shippuden is stand alone if you ask me.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:03 pm

Dragonball Z is literally objectively not a stand alone series. It's not even a sequel as far the manga goes: "The Return of the Jedi" is as much a standalone story as Z is.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:18 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Saying DBZ is stand alone is like saying Part 3 of Jojo or Naruto Shippuden is stand alone if you ask me.
Shippuden is heavily connected to Naruto's events while Z isn't to DB's.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Quebaz » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:38 pm

sintzu wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Saying DBZ is stand alone is like saying Part 3 of Jojo or Naruto Shippuden is stand alone if you ask me.
Shippuden is heavily connected to Naruto's events while Z isn't to DB's.
You're reaching, one can easily start with Shippuden and get what's going on without too much trouble, I have a couple of friends that did it.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:40 pm

sintzu wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Saying DBZ is stand alone is like saying Part 3 of Jojo or Naruto Shippuden is stand alone if you ask me.
Shippuden is heavily connected to Naruto's events while Z isn't to DB's.
Um. It...is.

I mean, you could watch any movie from the middle and start to pick up whats going and what relationships people have. Does that mean every scene is a standalone story?

The Saiyan saga starts a new story arc that builds on what happened before. Like DB did before and after Z. Like a lot of long running series do. Fist of the North star even did the exact same thing as DB: made a "sequel" anime called Fist of the North star 2 immediately after the end of the first anime, based off a manga that never made the distinction or took a break. Like Shippuden. It seems it's relatively common too spice up anime when a new arc starts(maybe it's the time skips). Are they all standalone stories on principle?

If you've seen and like both parts of the story, why insist so heavily on this (mostly) arbitrary distinction.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:44 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:I'm not saying that this is for sure the case, but statements like this make it sounds like you've never actually WATCHED or READ pre-Z DB and are simply regirgitating incorrect cliches that people often say about it on the internet. What you're describing here is like, the first HALF of original DB. At best. There's a whole giant second half of it where its virtually indistinguishable from Z. Blood and death and "fewer-kid friendly aesops" and all (I'm fairly sure even the more lighthearted first half had zero "aesops" whatsoever too: also leads one to think that you simply don't know what you're talking about here).
I don't disagree that's a huge portion of the fanbase who hasn't watched or read the material from chapters 1 - 194 of Dragonball. I don't belong in that group; I've read the whole thing in Japanese and may just possibly understand it more than some English speakers. Yet, I couldn't say the later half of that 194 chapters is indistinguishable to 195 onward. Yes, Piccolo Daimao started to show a more serious take on Goku's adventures with some incredibly high stakes, but I think there is a fundamental difference in a bad guy out for world domination versus intergalactic battles where Earth is but a small bit of a much larger Dragon Universe.

As for the aesops, early Dragon Ball is chock full of Eastern examples: The thing you may wish for most may be right in front of your face. Don't underestimate the frail, old man. Don't think you're the best just because you did well in a tournament. Luck is a part of winning a match. Even if you saved the world, don't think there aren't those above you. Raditz-onward sort of has these kind of messages, but I think they're more subtle and more up to interpretation. That's why I use the word kid-friendly to describe early Dragon Ball's lessons.
Kunzait_83 wrote:Goku became an adult before Z started. For starters.

Secondly the changes you're describing started and had developed WAY before the Z rebranding. The Z rebranding was the anime only belatedly catching up to what Toriyama had been doing with the series well years before that point.

Thus, you have entire story arcs of pre-Z DB material that is virtually identical in its style to what DBZ would become known for. The only reason that this isn't more well known and spoken of is because SO stupidly many fans never even bother to so much as GLANCE at the pre-Z stuff, and feel confident in judging it, sight unseen, based on stereotypes that mainly apply to the Pilaf (and to a lesser extent the Red Ribbon) material and thus spread this meme that original DB is an "optional comedic prequel". Its neither optional, nor is it a prequel, and VAST stretches of it are no more comedic than Z is.

Getting so hung up on the Z branding is a HUGE mistake, because it was done SO belatedly late after Toriyama's changes in tone had been made that it frankly comes across as exactly what it is in its story placement: 100% arbitrary. You could move that rebranding back one, two, or possibly even THREE story arcs previously, and it honestly would not make THAT big of a difference. Hell you could even more it FORWARD to Freeza. Would the Saiya-jin arc feel THAT out of place with the two Piccolo arcs? Not really, no. (Hint: because this was NEVER at any point actually two different series and the divide is completely meaningless)

Z is just a letter in the alphabet that Toei tacked on when they did. It does NOTHING to denote when DB's change in tone had ACTUALLY started. The divide being made at that specific point in the story is 100% artificial and meaningless. If it REALLY mattered THAT much as so many fans today seem to be dead set on believing, then the shift from Piccolo to Raditz would be STRIKING and leave the reader/viewer positively reeling with how different everything suddenly is.
So was the Z branding a mistake? Is it arbitrary? Is it correct but it should have occurred during the Piccolo Daimao saga? I realize it had no impact on Toriyama writing the manga, but a shift in tone was at least conspicuous enough that the showrunners felt the need to make a distinction. That's not the fans talking, that's the actual people who were responsible for storyboarding the anime making what they considered a smart franchise decision.
Kunzait_83 wrote:By starting at Z and never, ever going back to even LOOK at DB, you're doing yourself a huge disservice not only from a storytelling perspective, but also more simply because you're just pointlessly, needlessly denying yourself of what effectively amounts to vastly more material that is effectively just more of Dragon Ball Z in all but that one fucking letter at the end. That ONE STUPID LETTER is enough to make droves and droves of fans think "Nah, I don't need at least three more whole extra story arcs worth of DBZ in my life."

Its their loss ultimately, but it does do damage in helping to spread this completely made up narrative that that Z letter is THE definitive, unwaveringly precise marker of when you should start caring about and be invested in this series, because NOTHING that comes before it is ANYTHING the least bit like it. Because that's the exact, diametric opposite of the reality of what that material is actually like.
I totally agree with this and I want to emphasize that I love some of the earlier arcs of Dragon Ball. I would take any arc of the first 194 chapters of Dragon Ball over the Buu saga, for example. I still think there's an interesting discussion to be had about why various companies wanted to make at least the Dragon Ball and DBZ anime a different product. I think that discussion can be had without doing a disservice to the entire manga series.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:53 pm

LuckyCat wrote: I don't disagree that's a huge portion of the fanbase who hasn't watched or read the material from chapters 1 - 194 of Dragonball. I don't belong in that group; I've read the whole thing in Japanese and may just possibly understand it more than some English speakers. Yet, I couldn't say the later half of that 194 chapters is indistinguishable to 195 onward. Yes, Piccolo Daimao started to show a more serious take on Goku's adventures with some incredibly high stakes, but I think there is a fundamental difference in a bad guy out for world domination versus intergalactic battles where Earth is but a small bit of a much larger Dragon Universe.
Could you elaborate what this exactly means?
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Commodore Krevin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:I'm not saying that this is for sure the case, but statements like this make it sounds like you've never actually WATCHED or READ pre-Z DB and are simply regirgitating incorrect cliches that people often say about it on the internet. What you're describing here is like, the first HALF of original DB. At best.
Not to butt in, but I find that a curious statement. Half of a body work is no small thing and yet the, perhaps mistaken, notion I am getting from this thread is that the first arcs "don't count" or its somehow unfair to bring them up. That the later arcs should be given greater emphasis. As if DB didn't become DB until it started to become more like what "Z" would be.

And that's before we get into the discussion on if the later arcs are more like "Z" or not. To me many of what I think of as the staples of Dragon Ball, Saiyan transformations or power levels, either were created or gained prominence in "Z". As well, like I said before, in DB they were exploring the world around them and finding adventure rather than just training and fighting "Strong guys" like "Z" would descend into. First or second half, DB feels different to me than "Z".

I'm not saying DB didn't change but acting as if there was never a difference or that no one could possibly like "Z" and not DB is another thing entirely.
Kunzait_83 wrote: Thus, you have entire story arcs of pre-Z DB material that is virtually identical in its style to what DBZ would become known for. The only reason that this isn't more well known and spoken of is because SO stupidly many fans never even bother to so much as GLANCE at the pre-Z stuff, and feel confident in judging it, sight unseen, based on stereotypes that mainly apply to the Pilaf (and to a lesser extent the Red Ribbon) material and thus spread this meme that original DB is an "optional comedic prequel". Its neither optional, nor is it a prequel, and VAST stretches of it are no more comedic than Z is.
From an American perspective, that's debatable. Quite obviously many American enjoyed "Z" without first seeing DB. Indeed without "Z" DB would almost certainly be more obscure than it is. So on a purely factual basis, DB is optional. You can watch and enjoy "Z" on its on merits. Very much unlike ROTJ which is heavily based on the events that happened in TESB.
Kunzait_83 wrote:Getting so hung up on the Z branding is a HUGE mistake, because it was done SO belatedly late after Toriyama's changes in tone had been made that it frankly comes across as exactly what it is in its story placement: 100% arbitrary. You could move that rebranding back one, two, or possibly even THREE story arcs previously, and it honestly would not make THAT big of a difference. Hell you could even more it FORWARD to Freeza. Would the Saiya-jin arc feel THAT out of place with the two Piccolo arcs? Not really, no. (Hint: because this was NEVER at any point actually two different series and the divide is completely meaningless)
There is a rather big jump between fighting Demon Kings and fighting alien space pirates. Let alone how in the next arc the gang is going to leave Earth, travel the stars and kill the Emperor of the known universe. Are you saying there is no difference in tone/setting between that and climbing a mystic tower to get help from a talking cat? Or using your magic extending pole to climb up to God's look out above it later on?

Far from being arbitrary, I would argue "Z" marks the boundary in how the story Toriyama wanted to tell changed. It is a hundred percent perfect? No. Did the changes start before this? Yes. But it serves a useful divide, one fans apparently still have use for.

Lastly, I'm curious why this seems to matter so much. If DB is different that doesn't mean its bad or anything. I happen to like DB because of its differences from "Z". The more focus on adventure. The fact fights seemed to hinge more on cool techniques and skill rather than raw power levels and beam spams.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Commodore Krevin wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:I'm not saying that this is for sure the case, but statements like this make it sounds like you've never actually WATCHED or READ pre-Z DB and are simply regirgitating incorrect cliches that people often say about it on the internet. What you're describing here is like, the first HALF of original DB. At best.
Not to butt in, but I find that a curious statement. Half of a body work is no small thing and yet the, perhaps mistaken, notion I am getting from this thread is that the first arcs "don't count" or its somehow unfair to bring them up. That the later arcs should be given greater emphasis. As if DB didn't become DB until it started to become more like what "Z" would be.

And that's before we get into the discussion on if the later arcs are more like "Z" or not. To me many of what I think of as the staples of Dragon Ball, Saiyan transformations or power levels, either were created or gained prominence in "Z". As well, like I said before, in DB they were exploring the world around them and finding adventure rather than just training and fighting "Strong guys" like "Z" would descend into. First or second half, DB feels different to me than "Z".

I'm not saying DB didn't change but acting as if there was never a difference or that no one could possibly like "Z" and not DB is another thing entirely.
Kunzait_83 wrote: Thus, you have entire story arcs of pre-Z DB material that is virtually identical in its style to what DBZ would become known for. The only reason that this isn't more well known and spoken of is because SO stupidly many fans never even bother to so much as GLANCE at the pre-Z stuff, and feel confident in judging it, sight unseen, based on stereotypes that mainly apply to the Pilaf (and to a lesser extent the Red Ribbon) material and thus spread this meme that original DB is an "optional comedic prequel". Its neither optional, nor is it a prequel, and VAST stretches of it are no more comedic than Z is.
From an American perspective, that's debatable. Quite obviously many American enjoyed "Z" without first seeing DB. Indeed without "Z" DB would almost certainly be more obscure than it is. So on a purely factual basis, DB is optional. You can watch and enjoy "Z" on its on merits. Very much unlike ROTJ which is heavily based on the events that happened in TESB.
Kunzait_83 wrote:Getting so hung up on the Z branding is a HUGE mistake, because it was done SO belatedly late after Toriyama's changes in tone had been made that it frankly comes across as exactly what it is in its story placement: 100% arbitrary. You could move that rebranding back one, two, or possibly even THREE story arcs previously, and it honestly would not make THAT big of a difference. Hell you could even more it FORWARD to Freeza. Would the Saiya-jin arc feel THAT out of place with the two Piccolo arcs? Not really, no. (Hint: because this was NEVER at any point actually two different series and the divide is completely meaningless)
There is a rather big jump between fighting Demon Kings and fighting alien space pirates. Let alone how in the next arc the gang is going to leave Earth, travel the stars and kill the Emperor of the known universe. Are you saying there is no difference in tone/setting between that and climbing a mystic tower to get help from a talking cat? Or using your magic extending pole to climb up to God's look out above it later on?

Far from being arbitrary, I would argue "Z" marks the boundary in how the story Toriyama wanted to tell changed. It is a hundred percent perfect? No. Did the changes start before this? Yes. But it serves a useful divide, one fans apparently still have use for.

Lastly, I'm curious why this seems to matter so much. If DB is different that doesn't mean its bad or anything. I happen to like DB because of its differences from "Z". The more focus on adventure. The fact fights seemed to hinge more on cool techniques and skill rather than raw power levels and beam spams.

-Respectfully, Sonofccn
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Commodore Krevin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:29 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Commodore Krevin wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:I'm not saying that this is for sure the case, but statements like this make it sounds like you've never actually WATCHED or READ pre-Z DB and are simply regirgitating incorrect cliches that people often say about it on the internet. What you're describing here is like, the first HALF of original DB. At best.
Not to butt in, but I find that a curious statement. Half of a body work is no small thing and yet the, perhaps mistaken, notion I am getting from this thread is that the first arcs "don't count" or its somehow unfair to bring them up. That the later arcs should be given greater emphasis. As if DB didn't become DB until it started to become more like what "Z" would be.

And that's before we get into the discussion on if the later arcs are more like "Z" or not. To me many of what I think of as the staples of Dragon Ball, Saiyan transformations or power levels, either were created or gained prominence in "Z". As well, like I said before, in DB they were exploring the world around them and finding adventure rather than just training and fighting "Strong guys" like "Z" would descend into. First or second half, DB feels different to me than "Z".

I'm not saying DB didn't change but acting as if there was never a difference or that no one could possibly like "Z" and not DB is another thing entirely.
Kunzait_83 wrote: Thus, you have entire story arcs of pre-Z DB material that is virtually identical in its style to what DBZ would become known for. The only reason that this isn't more well known and spoken of is because SO stupidly many fans never even bother to so much as GLANCE at the pre-Z stuff, and feel confident in judging it, sight unseen, based on stereotypes that mainly apply to the Pilaf (and to a lesser extent the Red Ribbon) material and thus spread this meme that original DB is an "optional comedic prequel". Its neither optional, nor is it a prequel, and VAST stretches of it are no more comedic than Z is.
From an American perspective, that's debatable. Quite obviously many American enjoyed "Z" without first seeing DB. Indeed without "Z" DB would almost certainly be more obscure than it is. So on a purely factual basis, DB is optional. You can watch and enjoy "Z" on its on merits. Very much unlike ROTJ which is heavily based on the events that happened in TESB.
Kunzait_83 wrote:Getting so hung up on the Z branding is a HUGE mistake, because it was done SO belatedly late after Toriyama's changes in tone had been made that it frankly comes across as exactly what it is in its story placement: 100% arbitrary. You could move that rebranding back one, two, or possibly even THREE story arcs previously, and it honestly would not make THAT big of a difference. Hell you could even more it FORWARD to Freeza. Would the Saiya-jin arc feel THAT out of place with the two Piccolo arcs? Not really, no. (Hint: because this was NEVER at any point actually two different series and the divide is completely meaningless)
There is a rather big jump between fighting Demon Kings and fighting alien space pirates. Let alone how in the next arc the gang is going to leave Earth, travel the stars and kill the Emperor of the known universe. Are you saying there is no difference in tone/setting between that and climbing a mystic tower to get help from a talking cat? Or using your magic extending pole to climb up to God's look out above it later on?

Far from being arbitrary, I would argue "Z" marks the boundary in how the story Toriyama wanted to tell changed. It is a hundred percent perfect? No. Did the changes start before this? Yes. But it serves a useful divide, one fans apparently still have use for.

Lastly, I'm curious why this seems to matter so much. If DB is different that doesn't mean its bad or anything. I happen to like DB because of its differences from "Z". The more focus on adventure. The fact fights seemed to hinge more on cool techniques and skill rather than raw power levels and beam spams.

-Respectfully, Sonofccn
NORTH American. Millions of Latin Americans watched DB in chronological order. USA and Canada are not the entirety of America.

-Respectfully Cure Dragon 255.
Not to be disagreeable but American as in a citizen from the United States of America. Simply put, within the American context, only we count as Americans. I would add a "South" or "North" if I was making reference to a geographical region as opposed to nationality.

-Respectfully, Sonofccn

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:32 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:Could you elaborate what this exactly means?
It means the stakes of governance of a single planet (Piccolo Saga) is a lower than say, the existence of the entire universe (Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, Buu saga). That's just one big distinction, but I also mentioned blood and death tolls, there's also a fair argument about Dragon Ball's mysticism versus Z's sci-fi.

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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:39 pm

The big difference between Daimao and Vegeta and Freeza is in scale, but Piccolo was also a huge jump from what came before. They are all huge jumps. Z doesn't represent a radical shift any more than most arcs in DB changed over the course of time.
I happen to like DB because of its differences from "Z".
The story is always changing and evolving. Regardless, those changes don't make the two shows stand alone.

DBZ is as much a stand alone as seasons 5-9 of One Tree Hill. The first four take place during the main characters' high school years. All of their stories came to a conclusion, and beginning with season 5, the story jumps ahead 4 years. You COULD watch the show starting with them as adults and it in fact sort of acts like another pilot, but it's not. It builds on what came before.
Last edited by ABED on Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Perhaps we should refer to each new arc as a different series.
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Re: DBZ: A Stand-Alone Series?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:47 pm

LuckyCat wrote:It means the stakes of governance of a single planet (Piccolo Saga) is a lower than say, the existence of the entire universe (Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, Buu saga). That's just one big distinction, but I also mentioned blood and death tolls, there's also a fair argument about Dragon Ball's mysticism versus Z's sci-fi.
In what way is the existence of the entire universe at stake in any of these arcs? In the Saiyan Arc, only the earth is threatened. In the Freeza Arc, only Namek is threatened. In the Cell Arc, only the earth is threatened. In the Boo Arc, only the earth is threatened. Where exactly does this universal threat come into play? Well, that was a rhetorical question, but I can actually answer it myself: The Universe Survival Arc we are currently engaged in on Dragon Ball Super. And that's the first time Dragon Ball has ever had the entire universe at risk.
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