Number of episodes: with or without Kai?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Well this is interesting for sure. I found a couple of Japan only specials for Dragon Ball! They're nothing impressive though. One's about traffic safety (nearly 15 minutes), the other about fire safety (nearly 11 minutes).

I think there was another Z special too, though I can't for the life of me remember what it's about or if it even has a home release.

[cheddarsword]

Well this is interesting for sure. I found a couple of Japan only specials for Dragon Ball! They're nothing impressive though. One's about traffic safety (nearly 15 minutes), the other about fire safety (nearly 11 minutes).

I think there was another Z special too, though I can't for the life of me remember what it's about or if it even has a home release.

According to the site I use, episode 98 of Kai is considered a "special". It's where Trunks goes back to his timeline and kills 17, 18 and Imp. Cell. There IS however, two other things listed as Z:

Atsumare! Goku's World. It's a video game, but it has an OVA where Goku and the others ask you questions about the DB series.

One Piece X Toriko X Dragon Ball Z Crossover. It has two episodes.

That's all I can find. Unless you mean that thing where it shows Trunks retelling the fight between Goku and Freeza. It's not listed on the site. I thought that was Super though...

[sintzu]

If you're trying to push for what should and should not be considered to be a "true" part of the story, that's one thing.

To dismiss Z -- which by the way is the series that ensured that the majority of us would be here today -- is just silly.

If someone's asking about it then chances are they're new to the franchise so of course I'm going to introduce them through a more convenient way which is Kai.

Kai is Z so I'm not dismissing it. You may like all the filler and padding but I doubt someone new is interested in sitting through so much of it when there's a shorter version that does the exact same thing. They could watch a completely different long anime in the time it would take to get through the difference in episodes between Z and Kai.

[TheRed259]

Thanks for all the replies. So if Kai was reanimated would you still not count it?

I wouldn't count Z's episodes, why make soemone watch something full of filler when a better paced version was made ?

No, my question has more to do with numbers than introducing someone to DragonBall. I just wanna know if fans feel like adding DragonBall Z Kai's episodes to the counting, if they believe that DragonBall Z Kai does deserve to be counted or if they just ignore it because it's DragonBall Z without fillers.

[sintzu]

I just wanna know if fans feel like adding DragonBall Z Kai's episodes to the counting, if they believe that DragonBall Z Kai does deserve to be counted or if they just ignore it because it's DragonBall Z without fillers.

If DBZ is there by default then no, I wouldn't count Kai cause it's basically Z without the filler.

[TheGreatness25]

If you're trying to push for what should and should not be considered to be a "true" part of the story, that's one thing.

To dismiss Z -- which by the way is the series that ensured that the majority of us would be here today -- is just silly.

If someone's asking about it then chances are they're new to the franchise so of course I'm going to introduce them through a more convenient way which is Kai.

Kai is Z so I'm not dismissing it. You may like all the filler and padding but I doubt someone new is interested in sitting through so much of it when there's a shorter version that does the exact same thing. They could watch a completely different long anime in the time it would take to get through the difference in episodes between Z and Kai.

They're asking you about how many episodes are in the Dragon Ball franchise, not how many episodes they have to watch to know the manga's story.

[simtek34]

FIest off, Kai episode 98 is not a Special. It was only counted so due to the 2011 Japan Tsunami delaying Kai a week, and causing that episode not to air in Japan.

2 more specials: The Dragon Ball Z Summer Vacation Special and the Dragon Ball Z Year-End TV Special

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Thanks for all the replies. So if Kai was reanimated would you still not count it?

If Kai had been produced from scratch, I absolutely would add its episodes to the count.

[OmegaRockman]

If you're going for a raw, historical documentation of television episodes, I would absolutely count Kai. It's branded and treated as its own show even if it uses Z as its basis. However, if you're trying to construct a viewing guide for a newcomers, I'd make two separate lists: one for Kai, and one for Z. I'd then give my recommendations/opinions on why they should watch one thing over another based on that.

[TheRed259]

Masako Nozawa is adding DragonBall Z Kai's episodes (159 in the Japanese version) to the counting!
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/888572749429395456

[JulieYBM]

With. Some poor person had to make Kai, they deserve the right to he called their own episodes...even if they suck.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

With. Some poor person had to make Kai, they deserve the right to he called their own episodes...even if they suck.

What did the process consist of, though? Remastering and cutting together footage, and also tracing over some existing footage for some reason. Fans do this already, there's actually an ongoing fan project that's recutting both Z and Kai down to the closest possible resemblance to the manga, should we count their episodes too?

I get where you're coming from, but an official label isn't enough to warrant adding them to the count for me, especially when nothing they did was original, or outside the bounds of something any fan with enough time on their hands could approximate.

[MR.Mark]

Masako Nozawa is adding DragonBall Z Kai's episodes (159 in the Japanese version) to the counting!
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/888572749429395456

Nozawa worked on Kai along with the rest of the jpn/eng cast and gave a fresh recording, that alone justifies Kai as it's own show.


Kai is worth it, pacing, good dub, less plot holes.

Also check out my cut of the Buu arc.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38820

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Nozawa worked on Kai along with the rest of the jpn/eng cast and gave a fresh recording, that alone justifies Kai as it's own show.-

That might've held more weight before Z's broadcast audio leaked. Dub audio aside, since it has no bearing on the original show, the difference in audio quality isn't all that far apart anymore, and Kai's performances and music are worse than the original. It's still not enough for me, and it'll never be enough as far as I'm concerned due to Kai's unoriginal nature.

[MR.Mark]

Well I think the jpn performances for the original DBZ is superior aswell, doesn't save the rest of it's production from the terrible pacing and plot inconsistencies though.
So in that regard, Kai feels quite different in how it presents it's story, on top of the better pacing.

Whether you or I like Kai is immaterial (I have some beefs with the Buu arc of Kai), Kai for better or worse stands as it's own version of a anime adaption of the manga.