LGBT in DragonBall

[mute_proxy]

Huh.. I guess I got everything I expected from this topic the offended and the annoyed

[Akyon]

Huh.. I guess I got everything I expected from this topic the offended and the annoyed

Very much this.

LGBT discussions such as this are rather difficult to have due to everyone being so passionate about either one side or the other.

For the record since I saw One Punch Man being brought up as worse; I actually REALLY like Puri Puri Prisoner. Easily one of my favourite heroes in the series.
He's a fun character that I never find myself bored at watching. Over the top but very manly. His 'Angel form' is just a more extreme version of Full Metal Alchemists Alex Armstrong's quirk, and no different from stoic straight guy Gray Fullbuster from Fairy Tail. Nothing wrong with the over the top stripping.

Is he offensive? Definitely at times. There's certainly some questionable scenes with him in. But alongside his negative traits which I'll admit he has, he still has many positives; he's extremely powerful, he is one of the top ten heroes in universe, he makes sure to protect those weaker than him and has a strong drive to get better.
Whilst a sex pest, he only attacks criminals with that sort of thing, and even volunteers to stay in prison when he realises he's a sex pest in order to only attack the worst of the worst and not the law abiding citizens. Personally I think that puts him above Master Roshi of recent; assaulting girls with sexual advances who, as far as he knows, did nothing wrong. He's certainly very charismatic and likable even with all those negative traits and I honestly find him a fascinating character to watch, although I'm sure he's a base breaker of a character.

[mute_proxy]

For the record since I saw One Punch Man being brought up as worse; I actually REALLY like Puri Puri Prisoner. Easily one of my favourite heroes in the series.
He's a fun character that I never find myself bored at watching. Over the top but very manly. His 'Angel form' is just a more extreme version of Full Metal Alchemists Alex Armstrong's quirk, and no different from stoic straight guy Gray Fullbuster from Fairy Tail. Nothing wrong with the over the top stripping.

Is he offensive? Definitely at times. There's certainly some questionable scenes with him in. But alongside his negative traits which I'll admit he has, he still has many positives; he's extremely powerful, he is one of the top ten heroes in universe, he makes sure to protect those weaker than him and has a strong drive to get better.
Whilst a sex pest, he only attacks criminals with that sort of thing, and even volunteers to stay in prison when he realises he's a sex pest in order to only attack the worst of the worst and not the law abiding citizens. Personally I think that puts him above Master Roshi of recent; assaulting girls with sexual advances who, as far as he knows, did nothing wrong. He's certainly very charismatic and likable even with all those negative traits and I honestly find him a fascinating character to watch, although I'm sure he's a base breaker of a character.

Puri puri prisoner is a funny stereotypical gay perverted man, but he's a very good and admirable character. Stereotype jokes are funny, and asians seem to be a lot more laid back on the topic, weather it's about sexuality, race, religion or what not. If you can't take a joke when it's meant to be one, it's really your problem.

[Doctor.]

For the record since I saw One Punch Man being brought up as worse; I actually REALLY like Puri Puri Prisoner. Easily one of my favourite heroes in the series.
He's a fun character that I never find myself bored at watching. Over the top but very manly. His 'Angel form' is just a more extreme version of Full Metal Alchemists Alex Armstrong's quirk, and no different from stoic straight guy Gray Fullbuster from Fairy Tail. Nothing wrong with the over the top stripping.

Is he offensive? Definitely at times. There's certainly some questionable scenes with him in. But alongside his negative traits which I'll admit he has, he still has many positives; he's extremely powerful, he is one of the top ten heroes in universe, he makes sure to protect those weaker than him and has a strong drive to get better.
Whilst a sex pest, he only attacks criminals with that sort of thing, and even volunteers to stay in prison when he realises he's a sex pest in order to only attack the worst of the worst and not the law abiding citizens. Personally I think that puts him above Master Roshi of recent; assaulting girls with sexual advances who, as far as he knows, did nothing wrong. He's certainly very charismatic and likable even with all those negative traits and I honestly find him a fascinating character to watch, although I'm sure he's a base breaker of a character.

Puri puri prisoner is a funny stereotypical gay perverted man, but he's a very good and admirable character. Stereotype jokes are funny, and asians seem to be a lot more laid back on the topic, weather it's about sexuality, race, religion or what not. If you can't take a joke when it's meant to be one, it's really your problem.

I wouldn't call him admirable, he's a rapist.

[mute_proxy]

I wouldn't call him admirable, he's a rapist.

He rapes bad guys in jail lol everyone needs a hobby

[Super_Divine_Genki]

I am not gay, and infinitely proud.

And the author of a TV/animated series shouldn't have to go out of their way to establish a character as not gay either.

I'm a little amused that some think because a character like Zarbon hasn't been given an official label in DB, that it automatically puts him in the running for identifying with an "alternative lifestyle". Zarbon is clearly a bishi-type -- those aren't uncommon and more than likely identify with being asexual (in my experience of select media). People are wishing way too hard for and on edge about the prospect of being "represented" in DB... in DB! If you're a person that is hoping to be "represented accurately" in DB, I'm afraid that you're in the driest desert on that one. Don't hold these words against me though.

There's a thousand other series/films/video games out there that are being pumped out and doing the trendy/contemporary thing of packaging the "gay character" and inserting/pushing them into your entertainment. Be thankful for that, and enjoy it while it's around. But, please, don't expect DB to be "caught up with the times". Let DB be DB. Stop pretending that everything created now needs to advertise that the "gay movement" is an ever-present unstoppable force of nature in the bigger picture of human being. It's beyond silly, imo, not to mention that DB tackles much broader and relevant ideas than the day in the life of a sexual being.

I don't stand behind, or agree with the "alternative lifestyle", and the word "homophobic" offends me. I'm simply purist and traditional. However, I do sympathize with the gay person to an extent, but for more complicated reasons that would most likely go way over someone's head (not a Kanzenshuu discussion).

I think that there's been a grand total of TWO characters in the entire franchise that have been confirmed, and have displayed gay characteristics -- for comedic effect. Those aren't very good odds for you all. In Super, there was a cross-dressing couple briefly seen in U2 (who were "sent away" by the Pretty Cannon!! of all things), if you want to add them to the tally. If you have come to DB for "fishing" of that variety, I would suggest that you change your location to another place where you'll get the bites that you're anxiously awaiting. DB has done extremely well, and will continue to do extremely well, being straight and traditional. It's much much bigger about its adventuring than any single demographic to need to resort to contemporary pandering.

Zarbon is not gay (although his Kai English voice may lead someone to think otherwise, imo).

Tenshinhan is not gay. Chaozu is not gay. It's a bodyguard-type relationship that extends into big brother/little brother (and occasionally training dummy :p). Tenshinhan walks an enlightened path, and pities Chaozu having to endure being bullied out there in the world by himself. Folks in the West just don't seem to get that. I can't remember DB Movie 3 very well at the moment.

F.Trunks has never been gay. He endured a hellish world that prevented opportunity for a romantic relationship -- why did it take for Super giving him a female companion for others to go: "Well, there goes that idea. I so wanted him to be gay..."? It's amusing to me that someone would try to read "maybe he's gay!" into that.

Any deity, or non-mortal in the DB universe is not gay (Whis, Vados, Zamasu, GoD's, Kaioshin's,etc.). They display physical characteristics that identify them with gender, but their position/existence in the universe is far beyond being attached to any mortal sexuality. "I'm a life-form known as Whis".

Kale is not gay, or going to become gay - that's just overly wishful thinking. She appears to have experienced emotional trauma(s) to some degree. Frequent reminders about the protege/Sis' relationship that exists there between Caulifla/Kale should have long made this evident. It's another example of some waiting in earnest for those rains to come visit their barren wasteland of "representation".

Why did I need to answer for those... ? It's just a reminder to me that A LOT has changed in just the past 20 years with general mentality of the human being/consciousness.

And that's not mentioning the other bizarre relationship concoctions that I've somehow stumbled across online over the years. The author of a series shouldn't have to go out of their way to establish that a character is straight, it should be a given to treat that character as straight by default unless explicitly stated/shown otherwise.

It's been over five years since I've seen any of it, so I'll just skip over my criticisms of "representation" in that parody series "rewrite". If there is an opening to "explore" a not-sexually-identified character, some of the ego must have been satisfied during that production. :/

Anyway, let DB be DB. It doesn't need to advertise such small, inconsequential things as sexual identity during its silly, potentially-the-end-of-the-world/universe adventures.

...

[VegettoEX]

I don't stand behind, or agree with the "alternative lifestyle", and the word "homophobic" offends me. I'm simply purist and traditional.

Let me be 100% clear that this individual and their viewpoint does not represent Kanzenshuu as a website or greater community as a whole in any way whatsoever.

I wouldn't call him admirable, he's a rapist.

He rapes bad guys in jail lol everyone needs a hobby

There are so many ignorant comments leading up to and culminating in this statement that I'm at a loss for further words.

[Akyon]

I wouldn't call him admirable, he's a rapist.

He rapes bad guys in jail lol everyone needs a hobby

There are so many ignorant comments leading up to and culminating in this statement that I'm at a loss for further words.

In all fairness VegettoEX, the character has been referred to as 'attacking men' in prison but his sex pest nature is played for laughs in the same way Roshi's lust is.

The character also puts himself in jail as he know he has a problem and only attacks the criminals that are deemed dangerous enough to put in his cell block.

In another story Puri Puri would be terrifying and horrific but he's a gag character who is never actually shown attacking anyone and is a parody character in the same vain as Brianna is being a magical girl parody. The gag is he's a 40 something man and his transformation stops at the part you get nude.

But all this is irrelevant to Dragonball anyway.

To the prior poster, there's no real evidence for heterosexuality with Zarbon really either.
But he's a space alien so whose to say his species even has a traditional male/female thing going on? Nameks are asexual reproducers and we've only ever seen male...whatever Frieza's race is so there's no guarantee Zarbon reproduces like a human would.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Mike, I think that you read that text wrong (how else could I have worded it? Or was it saying too much?). That was not about me being disrespectful to a portion of the community here, but just a little FYI about me as a person (which I should have a right to express respectfully as others express themselves in their own way). Yes, I'm aware of and have accepted that other lifestyles exist/have existed, this is nothing new and I don't have a history of telling someone how to live their life, but I understand that you have to be protective about certain touchy subjects. There's perhaps some miscommunication in my last post. Let's all be friends.

I get along with any sane person. :p

[VegettoEX]

I'm aware of who the character and what their context to the story is. My comment specifically noted the lead-up to that, which was about the portrayal of gay men. Stereotypes of gay men all being pedophiles and rapists is bullshit propaganda created to further marginalize and spread hatred, which continues to lead to outright murder to this very day. It was harmful bullshit with Blue in the Dragon Ball anime, and it's harmful bullshit in One Punch Man. I like both series, like both characters, and have massive fucking issues beyond all reasonable comprehension with those portrayals.

[Doctor.]

Saying we should assume a character is straight in a series like Dragon Ball, of all things, is a bit ridiculous. If anything, we should assume they're asexual until proven otherwise.

[LuckyCat]

Sulu from Beyond was a pretty good way of doing it, he's there, he's got a husband and kid and the story never takes a sledgehammer and bashes you in the nutsack about how cool and hip and fresh it's being because oh my god!

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it? It feels like a very corporate tokenism decision to me. I mean the writers' conversation must have gone something like "Hey, Paramount wants us to include a gay character but without offending Trek's main audience, how can we do it without changing the script we already wrote? Oh, I know...!"

[VegettoEX]

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it?

Please go back and read the comments in this thread from gay people discussing their personal experience with representation in media. Use that as a starting point, and do some additional reading outside of this community.

[Gerky]

Sulu from Beyond was a pretty good way of doing it, he's there, he's got a husband and kid and the story never takes a sledgehammer and bashes you in the nutsack about how cool and hip and fresh it's being because oh my god!

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it? It feels like a very corporate tokenism decision to me. I mean the writers' conversation must have gone something like "Hey, Paramount wants us to include a gay character but without offending Trek's main audience, how can we do it without changing the script we already wrote? Oh, I know...!"

By that view, if making a character straight isn't going to add anything to the story, what's the point of it? Especially in a story like Dragon Ball with the romance down to a minimum, it would change nothing were some of the characters LGBTQIA. Absolutely nothing. It would harm no one.

[Doctor.]

By that view, if making a character straight isn't going to add anything to the story, what's the point of it? Especially in a story like Dragon Ball with the romance down to a minimum, it would change nothing were some of the characters LGBTQIA. Absolutely nothing. It would harm no one.

It also harms nobody if the characters remain straight.

[LuckyCat]

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it?

Please go back and read the comments in this thread from gay people discussing their personal experience with representation in media. Use that as a starting point, and do some additional reading outside of this community.

Please don't misunderstand, I've read up to page 5 before commenting, and it's just that this particular argument has been coming up often in my experience. My assertion is that a gay character should be put in a story organically. The Sulu example is great, because Sulu's family didn't do anything in the movie. It's pure window dressing. Why not give Sulu's husband a piece of dialog that would've contributed to the upcoming mission? That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure the interests of the LGBT community are served by throwing a member of the community into the background.

[Gerky]

By that view, if making a character straight isn't going to add anything to the story, what's the point of it? Especially in a story like Dragon Ball with the romance down to a minimum, it would change nothing were some of the characters LGBTQIA. Absolutely nothing. It would harm no one.

It also harms nobody if the characters remain straight.

You know what, you're absolutely right. It doesn't harm anyone if the characters are also all white in media. Things should stay exactly the same they have always been, shouldn't they? Why change anything? Isn't it fun being reductive?

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it?

Please go back and read the comments in this thread from gay people discussing their personal experience with representation in media. Use that as a starting point, and do some additional reading outside of this community.

Please don't misunderstand, I've read up to page 5 before commenting, and it's just that this particular argument has been coming up often in my experience. My assertion is that a gay character should be put in a story organically. The Sulu example is great, because Sulu's family didn't do anything in the movie. It's pure window dressing. Why not give Sulu's husband a piece of dialog that would've contributed to the upcoming mission? That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure the interests of the LGBT community are served by throwing a member of the community into the background.

How did it any way affect things negatively for Sulu to be gay?

[ekrolo2]

I read this a lot, but I can't say I agree with it. If making a character gay isn''t going to add anything to the story, what's the point of doing it?

Please go back and read the comments in this thread from gay people discussing their personal experience with representation in media. Use that as a starting point, and do some additional reading outside of this community.

Please don't misunderstand, I've read up to page 5 before commenting, and it's just that this particular argument has been coming up often in my experience. My assertion is that a gay character should be put in a story organically. The Sulu example is great, because Sulu's family didn't do anything in the movie. It's pure window dressing. Why not give Sulu's husband a piece of dialog that would've contributed to the upcoming mission? That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure the interests of the LGBT community are served by throwing a member of the community into the background.

A fair counter point, but considering the fact how much stuff is horrendously bad at integrating its representation because it almost literally beats you over the head with it (Bioware is my go to example for this kind of stuff), I'll take the super subtle route over Mass Effect Andromeda dropping an entire NPCs back-story about how they're trans-gender because you said HI TO THEM!

[LuckyCat]

How did it any way affect things negatively for Sulu to be gay?

Nothing was harmed, it's just that nothing was gained. For a franchise that's supposed to "go boldly", one would think they'd push the envelope further. They played it safe, and consequentially didn't improve anything.

[AgitoZ]

How did it any way affect things negatively for Sulu to be gay?

The original actor for Hikaru Sulu, George Takei, was not receptive to the change. In particular with the implication that the character may have been closeted in the original timeline as well, which is something that Takei himself struggled with. It's a fantastic example because the writers for the movie changed the character, who was straight, at an attempt to virtue signal. They didn't actually care about gay people or their opinions because when the original actor, a gay man, raised his concern they went along with it anyway.