LGBT in DragonBall

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Kunzait_83
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Re: LGBT in DragonBall

Post by Kunzait_83 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:52 pm

I'm a bit behind here. My bad. Thread's moving fast.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble, but this propaganda hasn't been in place for decades, I'd be shocked if it existed in any notable fashion past the 1960's. Even if there is, everyone except the die-hard Evangelical Christians and the Islamists don't do anything other than laugh at it. It's a joke, and you're only giving it more credit (and misplaced credit, at that) than it deserves by bringing it up. You might as well cite the holocaust while you're at it.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:The only places left in the world that are systematically discriminating and murdering homosexuals en mass right now are Islamic States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orla ... b_shooting

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/worl ... .html?_r=0

https://www.advocate.com/crime/2013/11/ ... us-history

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/roano ... 18c5b.html

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/30/deadly-na ... n-6606700/

http://remezcla.com/culture/xalapa-gay-bar-murders/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/nyre ... lando.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-12-21/ ... ondon-home

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowtown_murders

As bad as or to the same scale or degree as what's going on in places like Chechnya or Iran? Horrifyingly no, of course not. BUT, to insinuate that "Nope, there's no problem AT ALL with anti-gay mass killings and discrimination in the U.S. or non-Muslim countries WHATSOEVER?" That is fucking COLOSSALLY ignorant and moronic. To blood curdling degrees. To that point, need I remind people that the Pulse incident (which was ONLY LAST FUCKING YEAR JESUS CHRIST) was...

"On June 12, 2016, the club gained international attention as it was the scene of the deadliest mass shooting by a single gunman in U.S. history, and the deadliest terrorist attack on U.S. soil since the events of September 11, 2001."
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I guarantee they're being influenced more by the anti-gay, anti-west, and anti-jew propaganda that's constantly being pumped into their local news and children's programing
Kinda like the anti-Muslim propaganda that likely seems to have been pumped into YOUR noggin' since you were a wee one?

Yeah I know, that was a hot take, but allow me to better explain/follow up with...
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:If you really have a problem with anti-LGBT discrimination, among other injustices, such as the rampant incest and child rape happening in these parts of the world, such as the practice in the Islamic world of families going out on the streets to gang-rape women, how about instead of having ridiculous conversations like this one, which don't have real implications regarding anything, we address actual problems, instead of getting upset at the fading ghosts of old sins.
Look, we get it already: Muslim countries have MUCH worse instances of anti-gay violence. Yes. Absolutely they do. 10:4. Understood. Completely agreed.

My problem with your argument here is, you generally seem to be using the problems with anti-gay violence in Muslim countries as an excuse for us in the West to avert our eyes to our OWN anti-gay violence and issues.

Just because another guy has it worse does not in any way mean that you therefore get to have license to just ignore all of your own issues.

This smacks of a bullshit copout and excuse, and I'm sorry to even go here, but it cannot help but reek of the classic Fox News party line: "America is pure and righteous and good in all ways and in all things! We're NEVER wrong! Racism is all a thing of the past and is long over with and is only something that high falutin' liberals continuously dredge up to keep old wounds fresh and keep America weak! No no, instead, avert ALL your attention over to the REAL problem facing our country and our world, which is the dirt poor, swarthy brown people over there! THEY'RE what's truly wrong with EVERYTHING in the world!"

I don't know how much, if any, of that kind of garbage you've had poured into your skull growing up, but when you make arguments like this ("America's problems with bigotry are all over with, what are gay people even complaining about anymore? Hey look, if you want to attack a REAL problem, then its the Muslims! Muslims! Muslims are worse than anybody!") you cannot HELP but sound like a kid who was spoonfed a shitload of O'Reilly and Hannity growing up. Just FYI. (Though more likely if I had to guess, its probably /pol/ or reddit or someplace like that that you're regurgitating a lot of this asinine fucking nonsense from).

And no, NONE OF THIS absolves the Muslim world of its horrible, heinous crimes. At. All. Of course not. But just because the guy next to you in the police lineup was a child molester and serial killer doesn't somehow let you off the hook for being an armed robber who's killed your share of people as well. The Muslim countries are doing grotesque shit. America, while it has made GREAT progress in many areas, is also STILL doing some downright heinous, ugly shit of its own. I don't think its unfair for people (especially people in marginalized/minority communities) to ask that more work be done to fix our own issues before we start worrying about and butting into the affairs of the rest of the world.

And not for nothing, but say we all agreed that the Muslim countries are THE #1 problem that the world faces and has to be "dealt" with in some way. Which y'know, we kinda did there going back during the Bush years. So... what then? What do you propose we do about it exactly? "Bomb the hell out of them" to quote our Rhode Scholar president? Go in there with guns a'blazing? I mean ok, Muslims are worse than us when it comes to blah blah blah. Fine. So... what the fuck next then? What's step two supposed to be after we all chant "Radical Islamic Terrorism" together sufficiently loudly? Just noting here that America sticking its nose into the Muslim world's business and butting our way into their affairs with tanks, missiles, and guns? Not exactly working out for EITHER of us very well, is it?

The point here being: Screaming "Yeah, but the Muslims are WORSE at it than us!" when it comes to just about ANY of our problems is NOT AT ALL fucking constructive to ANYONE that's actually affected by these problems right here in America on a daily basis still. Its a cheap-ass dodge to avoid talking about OUR problems (which YES still fucking exist, contrary to what you might think) and you sound like a stereotypical GOP conservative imbecile whenever you go there.
Doctor. wrote:Acknowledging LGBT prejudice in the Middle East would mean acknowledging that there are other societies out there more fucked up than ours and perhaps the issues we face over here are essentially nonproblems.
Seriously?

Not to trot out such a similar analogy right away but: just because the guy next to you has excruciatingly painful bone marrow cancer doesn't somehow mean its a good idea to just go home and leave your heart valve blockage unattended to because hey at least you're not THAT guy.

Is most of the middle east FAR WORSE OFF than us? Yes, absolutely (in some part BECAUSE of our own insane foreign policies in those regions spanning back decades, but that's neither here nor there). But does that render every other horrible thing that happens over here an insignificant "nonproblem"? Like I dunno, significant and ever growing income disparity and working poverty, the continued erosion of basic privacy rights, the repeal of Habeas Corpus and crippling of the Magna Carta, the still substantial degree of hate crimes and violence against minorities in the U.S. (contrary to what you might believe), particularly unpunished violence against minorities by our own fucking police? And really all that's just for starters? These are all "nonproblems" on our end just because the middle east countries hate gay people more outwardly viciously than us? Are you fucking for real?

Before presuming to cast judgment on others, its generally wise to sort one's own goddamned house first.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:40% of them are suicidal. The military needs people who are reliable and efficient, they don't even let people with clinical depression in. It's not like he's sending them to death camps, he's not even saying they can't be public servants, but the military is a dangerous place to have people who are overwhelmingly statistically unstable.
X% of Latino immigrants are criminals. So lets deport 100% of them. Gee, that kind of thinking sounds AWFULLY familiar.

And aren't you the same guy who JUST went on a tangent about how discrimination isn't a think that's a problem in America anymore because we singed a bunch of laws? Only to THEN go on a discriminatory tangent defending out and out BLATANT TEXTBOOK discrimination? The cognitive dissonance and utter and complete lack of self-awareness on display here is staggering.

And speaking of that whole "racism is over!" bit...
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:We have crossed the finish line. Name me an injustice that's within the government's purview to fix, and exists for the purpose of unfair discrimination, not practical safeguards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_br ... ted_States

KIND OF a massive one still. To wit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... von_Martin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... do_Castile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland

There. I've named six injustices. With human faces and names attached to them.

And...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_ ... risdiction

No, this isn't a matter of whining by stoners or what have you. Yes, thousands upon thousands of people's lives are continuously being DESTROYED on a daily basis by the continued Federal illegality of marijuana in the United States. Across ALL racial boundaries, but yes PARTICULARLY so amongst the black community (after all, that's what the law was originally put in place to do).

Also lets not forget, we legalized gay marriage only STUPIDLY recently. Like just about two years ago now. And guess what? There are government officials in states ALL OVER the country who have been working their asses off trying to either overturn it or wiggle their way around it to still ban it in their states. And moreover, there's a guy who is Vice President of the United States RIGHT NOW who has been on record as being just itching and frothing at the mouth to find any way he can to help overturn the Supreme Court's decision (its not in any which way a coincidence that the newest appointee to the SCOTUS is anti-gay marriage himself). PLENTY of evangelical voters are also ready and willing at a moment's notice to get their backs on this one.

You think this shit is over just because we got gay marriage? Was it all cut and dry over for the black community just as soon as LBJ signed the Civil Rights act? You think that THAT'S how this shit works? Like in real life? Sign a law, and yay! Oppressed/marginalized people get to ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after?

That is grotesquely, hilariously, stomach churningly naive thinking. Honestly its almost adorable and I'm halfway tempted to ask you if you also still believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause as well.

These are fights that people in this country (and others obviously) still have to deal with every. Single. Goddamned. Day. A lot of beyond helpful and necessary laws can get passed, but no law can stop anyone and everyone from still attempting to bully and heap needless and unjust hatred and scorn on someone for any number of dumbfuck reasons (race, religion, orientation, gender, etc). And that doesn't just stop on the streets: it extends into the halls of the Senate and Congress, where plenty of petty bullies also exist in throngs and get to try their best to legislate their own prejudices and hatred into law.

It doesn't stop just because some (extremely important) laws get passed. Hatred and bigotry are much stronger and longer lasting opponents than that. You don't EVER get to rest on your laurels and say "Problem solved, don't ever have to worry about THAT anymore!" I'm recalling something or other about "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." and that about sums it up right here just perfectly.

"We have crossed the finish line."

Jesus Christ, that isn't merely stupid, its DANGEROUSLY ignorant. This type of almost punchably clueless obliviousness is at least partly WHY these old hatreds are allowed to continue to exist and fester onward.

I don't know for sure if JInzoningen MULE is white or not (though I'd be DAMNED shocked if he wasn't), but as heated and tainted as the phrase has become, the term "white privilege" exists PRECISELY because of this kind of "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" mentality on display here.

When you can live in a country where THIS kind of shit routinely (and very much visibly) goes down every single fucking day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... von_Martin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... do_Castile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland

And you can still find the outright balls to say "We have crossed the finish line", that is just some WORLD CLASS ignorance there. And white or not, you ARE indeed one PRIVILEGED motherfucker, to say nothing of obtuse.
ShaneisMC wrote:I realize of course that this is a privately owned public forum and that those in charge have the authority to do pretty much whatever they please. However I must say if nothing else I commend you on the principle that you feel strongly or bravely enough to state your beliefs and point of view even when it is clearly going in opposition to effectively the head guy in charge of the whole website. Exercising the idea of freedom of speech without too much fear of persecution or potential termination and the like directed at someone in a major position of power here. Regardless of whether or not whomever agrees with whatever. Admirable.
Oh fuuuuuuuuuuck this.

Yes, lets all of us commend a complete and utter moron for having the GUTS, for having the COURAGE OF HIS CONVICTIONS to speak complete and utter stupidity to power. For having the MORAL COURAGE to rise up, embrace and bathe in his ignorance, and proclaim to the world in one voice "I! DON'T! THINK! BIGOTRY! IS! A THING! THAT! HAPPENS! ANYWHERE! ANYMORE! ....except among Muslim folks. Brown people terrify me."

Oh YES! Lets all give a great big ROUND OF APPLAUSE to this genuine American HERO here ladies and gentlemen! The hero who has the strength and moral fortitude to look down at the systematically victimized and oppressed and proclaim to them "Pffft! Fucking gays and trans and dark skinned people have it fucking MADE in this country and STILL they whine! I mean HELLO! We crossed the finish line folks! Racism and bigotry are all over in America! Ancient history now (even though we just signed a significant civil rights law only two years ago, and people are STILL trying to undo it now, including the VP)! Why you gotta still drudge up old shit? Nothing's ever good enough for them! Never grateful, no matter HOW MUCH we inconvenience ourselves for them! Don't they know they'd get beheaded in other countries?

I mean here, in the land of the free, we just lock em up for years and years and ruin their lives senselessly just for having a harmless piece of plant on them, or beat the dogshit out of them and blow the back of their heads off for just daring to look cross eyed at a cop, or make them go through DECADES of shame and humiliation and endless legal battles just to be able to marry the person they want, not to mention napalm or shoot up any nightclubs or bars they like to visit, or have fuckheaded college jocks struggling with their own sexuality randomly beat them to death in the middle of the street in broad daylight and half the time get away with it... I mean this country is HEAVEN ON EARTH for these people, and STILL people are unsatisfied."


If you think what MULE is saying is in ANY WHICH WAY admirable, then congratulations. You're somehow even more clueless than he is. Revering him for having the courage to show off publicly what a complete and utter fucking callous and myopic idiot he is (at best) on these kinds of issues is just preposterously absurd and sad and a clear case of the blind leading the blind.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: LGBT in DragonBall

Post by Hujio » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:03 pm

This seems like a great place to leave things.
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