Do you consider the Boo arc better than Super?

[precita]

So before Super existed, and besides GT, for a long time a lot of the complaints about Dragonball going too crazy with power levels and transformations all started with the Boo saga.

Let me start this by saying I love the Boo arc, it's one of my favorites. But this is when stuff like Super Saiyan kids, Super Saiyan 3, Ultimate Gohan, Fusions, Buu's multiple forms, etc. all got it's start. Do you think the way the Boo saga handled this stuff on average is better than Super in general?

While Super now consists of multiple arcs, and it isn't fair to compare a single saga like Boo to an ongoing series that is comprised of about 4+ different arcs so far, do you think the way the Boo saga was handled by Toriyama and Toei to be better than Super?

[RandomGuy96]

I consider the Buu arc better than any part of the franchise other than the Saiyan arc. By the way, the Buu arc was 96 episodes in the anime and 89 chapters in the manga, so if Super ends after this arc it actually wouldn't be too crazy to compare them... or, at least, to compare it to Super's original content (what isn't just an expanded and rehashed version of the two movies).

[Vijay]

Why Buu Arc?

Let me start off by saying Buu Arc is by FAR, the dopest Arc in Z.

Comparing it to Super is like equating Sun to torchlight

GT would be apt. Even than GT would win by a landslide in any NON-KANZENSHUU forum

I divide Buu Arc into 3 Acts

Act 1: Appearance of Kaioshin till Majin Vegeta's sacrifice

Act 2: Post-Majin Veggie's Sacrifice till Super Buu pop

Act 3: Super Buu vs Gotenks all da way will EoZ Goku vs Uub

I personally had a blast with Act 1 & 3. The hard-hitting actions made Buu Arc rollicking fun

Act 2 was understandably slow/uninteresting but served as buildup to Act 3

Super on other hand....sigh.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

If the Buu arc ended with Gohan being the one to defeat him, it probably would have been higher on my list. It just seemed like the theme of that arc is that it's the new generation turn to save the world and not rely on Goku anymore. That gets all washed away when Goku and Vegeta saved the universe. Although Vegeta's confession was well done. Compared to Super, I don't know, I feel like I'll wait for Super to finish then I can rank the arcs within my ranking of the original 10 arcs.

[sintzu]

What Super does better is the villains, Black is by far a better villain than Buu was. The Buu arc on the other hand had better character moments & better fights. The art and animation in the Buu arc are among the franchise's best so that's another thing Buu does better.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

By a mile. The musical score and its placement(Kikuchi) alone murders anything in DBS. That's not even getting into Yama'uchi delivering some of the best episodes in the franchise and his extraordinary vision that made a story which was horrible in the manga to a memorable one in the anime.

[MR.Mark]

Since I've been working extensively on my cut of the Buu arc, I've been quite close to the Buu arc for awhile now. I must say while it had moments of great humor, fights, and Vegeta character development, I'd place the Zamasu arc above it.

Zamaus is just a way more dynamic and interesting villain, the music is particularly great in this arc, and it has fights that top previous DB animation by far. I even dig the bitter sweet ending it gave Trunks, it was not the typical heros fix everything with the Dragon Balls situation.

[mute_proxy]

Since I've been working extensively on my cut of the Buu arc, I've been quite close to the Buu arc for awhile now. I must say while it had moments of great humor, fights, and Vegeta character development, I'd place the Zamasu arc above it.

Zamaus is just a way more dynamic and interesting villain, the music is particularly great in this arc, and it has fights that top previous DB animation by far. I even dig the bitter sweet ending it gave Trunks, it was not the typical heros fix everything with the Dragon Balls situation.

Will your cut be available for everyone?

[MR.Mark]

Since I've been working extensively on my cut of the Buu arc, I've been quite close to the Buu arc for awhile now. I must say while it had moments of great humor, fights, and Vegeta character development, I'd place the Zamasu arc above it.

Zamaus is just a way more dynamic and interesting villain, the music is particularly great in this arc, and it has fights that top previous DB animation by far. I even dig the bitter sweet ending it gave Trunks, it was not the typical heros fix everything with the Dragon Balls situation.

Will your cut be available for everyone?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38820 Here you go

Back to the Buu arc, it had lots of twists and turns, I'll give it that. However it mostly felt like Toriyama was running out of steam and didn't really know where the story was going (more than usual).

[Akyon]

For me personally...no. I disliked the Buu saga a lot.

The Buu arc is when all the cast bar the Saiyans(and Satan) were made redundant with even Piccolo being a glorified babysitter as one of his Buu saga highlights. Super Buu's casual off panel murder spree of much beloved characters didn't help, and the anime only slightly improved it. Super at least brings the cast back to do something entertaining now and then even if it's just slice of life episode.

Fusion felt like a massive ass pull and Goten's existence felt like it was literally only to become Gotenks. It's barely improved in Super. Gotenks is also one of the worst characters IMO ever concieved.

Super Saiyan became a joke. Even acknowledged in Universe.

Shin was an incompetent boob who despite being partially responsible for Buu's revival was one of the few characters who didn't get killed as a result of his actions.

Vegeta abandoned his character development up to that point to go Majin(although got better later), and the entire arc feels empty thanks to such a limited cast due to Buu.

Dabura seems like an interesting character with an a background worth exploring but whoops; cookied before we get to learn more about his world.

And honestly I think Zamasu and Black are just superior villains. Buu's a chaotic force, but that doesn't make him a very interesting character to me.

[LowRyder2005]

I feel as if it's already debatable if the best of Super can hold a candle to GT's "good" moments, no need to bring out one of the most iconic arcs in the entire franchise.

The Future Trunks Arc - arguably Super's best - ends up being usually more than a tad glorified (by those who could mostly be the younger fans?) by part of the fandom, in my experience; probably by virtue of being the only original not-completely-forgettable thing the newest series has produced, I suppose.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

For me personally...no. I disliked the Buu saga a lot.

The Buu arc is when all the cast bar the Saiyans(and Satan) were made redundant with even Piccolo being a glorified babysitter as one of his Buu saga highlights. Super Buu's casual off panel murder spree of much beloved characters didn't help, and the anime only slightly improved it. Super at least brings the cast back to do something entertaining now and then even if it's just slice of life episode.

Fusion felt like a massive ass pull and Goten's existence felt like it was literally only to become Gotenks. It's barely improved in Super. Gotenks is also one of the worst characters IMO ever concieved.

Super Saiyan became a joke. Even acknowledged in Universe.

Shin was an incompetent boob who despite being partially responsible for Buu's revival was one of the few characters who didn't get killed as a result of his actions.

Vegeta abandoned his character development up to that point to go Majin(although got better later), and the entire arc feels empty thanks to such a limited cast due to Buu.

Dabura seems like an interesting character with an a background worth exploring but whoops; cookied before we get to learn more about his world.

And honestly I think Zamasu and Black are just superior villains. Buu's a chaotic force, but that doesn't make him a very interesting character to me.

Re watching the Buu arc via Kai it has so many problems the big one for me being the arc could have ended in so many places if characters were simply just logical. So many moments where you're wondering why didn't X character do this? Then of course the incompetency of Shin cannot be ignored... Oh boy.

But the worst is Vegeta, like you said they stripped his development only to develop him again...? It's so stupid. People complain about fan service in DBS what is that?

People complain about Super's writing the Buu arc is just as bad or even worse. The half ass Goku must be bad air explanation for the Portara defuse (and least DBS gave us an actual explanation), Goku being pro fusion and pro portara for the entire arc and then suddenly is like "nah fusion isn't for me". What? Goku wasting his day on Earth when he could have teleported to capsule corp himself and gotten the dragon radar... Gohan's stupidity in allowing Gotenks to fight and then not being wary of his surroundings. That whole situation felt un Gohan like. Just to give a few examples.

I still love the Buu arc as it's really fun (more enjoyable than the Cell arc) but it's heavily flawed can't deny that.

[ABED]

But the worst is Vegeta, like you said they stripped his development only to develop him again

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. It's like an addict. They often have relapses and it was the last desperate struggle of a man to reclaim his former life only to realize it's not actually what he wanted. It's not like so many revivals these days where they completely strip the characters of their development only to bring them back to square one.

[LowRyder2005]

But the worst is Vegeta, like you said they stripped his development only to develop him again

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. It's like an addict. They often have relapses and it was the last desperate struggle of a man to reclaim his former life only to realize it's not actually what he wanted.

Indeed. Even if we want to assume that in-between the arcs Vegeta end of the Android Arc became a family man - which is anything but proven - it's pretty much established that it was Goku's return and the sudden realization that his rival was still ahead of him that prompted his psychological breakdown.

Saying the Buu saga made a 180° turn feels like a huge overstatement. In fact, the Buu saga arguably shines with Vegeta's development while addressing his ghosts of the pasts, finally and organically putting everything behind him: the most touching part and the one with most finesse in basically all of the manga/Z, constituting also a reflection on the series' main characters as a whole. Even more rewarding when you consider Vegeta was used very sparingly.

[MR.Mark]

While nonsensical plot wise for Goku and Vegeta to take such a risk, seeing Goku successfully beat Buu with the genkidama was cool. Pretty much the same reason I enjoy the Genkisword slicing Zamasu, thematically it works well enough.

[Gerky]

No. The Buu saga was where I initially stopped watching the anime, moved to the manga and started watching other anime. Didn't feel it as much despite a very interesting beginning.

To my surprise, I'm actually enjoying watching Super weekly. I didn't even enjoy the Buu saga four days a week.

[Doctor.]

Yes, the Boo arc, with all its flaws, is actually memorable. The only arc in Super better than it is the Black arc, only because it's just as chaotic and entertaining with slightly better writing (even though it packs just as much bullshit into a shorter number of episodes). Everything else is so unmemorable that it hurts, lacking any kind of focus or direction, it surprises me that it's Toriyama's work.

A lot of problems with modern Dragon Ball did start with the Boo arc though, but it's justifiable because it was the last arc in the series. What modern Dragon Ball should have done was tone down the intensity a few notches, but it just kept escalating into an even bigger mess.

[MajinMan]

Since the Buu arc is my favorite in the series, yes, I do think it's better than Super. I admit I am a bit biased towards it, but I feel that the Buu arc has every aspect of DB that I like. The comedy, fights, development, cool moments, great music, the list goes on. I also feel the Majin Buu himself is underrated when it comes to being a unique villain. He can get a little generic when he absorbs Gotenks and Gohan, but other than that he is very interesting. The climax is also very memorable. Super has its great moments, but it is still inferior as of today.

[ABED]

While nonsensical plot wise for Goku and Vegeta to take such a risk, seeing Goku successfully beat Buu with the genkidama was cool.

It does make sense plot wise because it was in character. When you frame it that way, the Cyborg/Cell arc is made much more palatable. These aren't superheroes out to save the world. They are warriors with a code of honor looking for a good fight.

[MR.Mark]

While nonsensical plot wise for Goku and Vegeta to take such a risk, seeing Goku successfully beat Buu with the genkidama was cool.

It does make sense plot wise because it was in character. When you frame it that way, the Cyborg/Cell arc is made much more palatable. These aren't superheroes out to save the world. They are warriors with a code of honor looking for a good fight.

Yeah, that's common knowledge for any Dragon Ball fan, and I was fine up until Vegeta's idea for the genki dama. Was he expecting a code of honor from the earthlings? It was just an excuse to keep Gohan and the others out of the fight, no more of an ass pull then Trunks and his Genkisword.

It's still cool mind you, seeing past characters help to gather the energy etc, but it's still nonsense. Goku and Vegeta don't even have the excuse for wanting a good fight anymore at that point.

Vegeta's behavior when Beerus arrived made a lot more sense in a desperate situation.