Do you consider the Boo arc better than Super?

[MR.Mark]

In any of that does Vegeta say "NO!, we can't use them to fight Buu because you and I shall defeat Buu Kakarot!"

It's the exact opposite, Vegeta comes up with the idea for the simple fact that it was for Goku to get the win, it had nothing to do with being in character, it was contrived weak writing to keep them out of the fight.

What's so in character to keep Gohan out of it but get earthlings involved? Explain. You won't be able to, guaranteed.

[ABED]

What's so in character to keep Gohan out of it but get earthlings involved? Explain. You won't be able to, guaranteed.

Never said he wouldn't. It's been a while since I've read that arc so I would have to go back to it, but it's not out of character for them to want to do it on their own, either.

Considering you don't know what deus ex machina is, I'm not trusting your judgment about what constitutes good writing.

[MR.Mark]

What's so in character to keep Gohan out of it but get earthlings involved? Explain. You won't be able to, guaranteed.

Never said he wouldn't. It's been a while since I've read that arc so I would have to go back to it, but it's not out of character for them to want to do it on their own, either.

But ultimately THEY DID NOT DO IT ON THERE OWN, plus they had help from Fat Buu and Mr. Satan, WTF is your argument seriously?

Considering you don't know what deus ex machina is, I'm not trusting your judgment about what constitutes good writing.

Throwing around often odd or unnecessarily big worded descriptions of weak baseless arguments isn't doing you any favors ether.

[Vegeta123]

Of course. Way better. Super is such fucking trash and it reeks of fan service. Female Broly, Freeza coming back, etc. Such trash. Bring back the seriousness that DBZ had. Bring back bruce falcouner.

[ABED]

Throwing around often odd or unnecessarily big worded descriptions of weak baseless arguments isn't doing you any favors ether.

They teach you that in high school. It's not a sophisticated word or concept. It's hardly big worded.

THEY DID NOT DO IT ON THERE OWN

Never claimed they did, just that they don't like to.

WTF is your argument seriously?

I've said it a million times and no matter how many times I state it, you will ignore it or forget it. My big argument is that they aren't acting out of character and it wasn't a deus ex machina.

The fight isn't the strongest written fight in the series but it's not the worst.

Bring back the seriousness that DBZ had. Bring back bruce falcouner.

No on Bruce as his music isn't DB at all, and DBZ was still a pretty light hearted show.

[MR.Mark]

Never claimed they did, just that they don't like to.

But they like reaching out for help from anyone who doesn't conveniently have the power to one shot Buu?

How does this make any sense? Please explain why it's in character for them to reach out to earth and how that is better writing? You won't be able to and will tap dance around it with mochachinos and other big words.

[OhHiRenan]

It's also important to remember that Gotenks and Gohan being absorbed is what caused Goku and Vegeta's current predicament. Gohan could have mopped Pure Boo, but he could have done the same to Evil Boo and didn't. Using the Genki Dama was smarter, in-character, and wrapped the arc up nicely since the characters responsible for waking Boo ended up being the ones to defeat him.

[ABED]

But they like reaching out for help from anyone who doesn't conveniently have the power to one shot Buu?

How does this make any sense? Please explain why it's in character for them to reach out to earth and how that is better writing? You won't be able to and will tap dance around it with mochachinos and other big words.

This all assumes he can one shot Buu.

Your insistance that deus ex machina is a big term is just silly. I don't know about your high school, but I was taught the term in 10th grade English. And mochaccino? Are you implying that I'm being pretentious?

Gohan could have mopped Pure Boo

And yet he gives up a ton of his power to the Genki Dama but that's still not enough?

[MR.Mark]

I can't take you seriously if your legitimately trying to imply Gohan couldn't easily defeat Pure Buu.

You insult my education when you seem to not know basic math. If you get around to watch Super I guess at least the power scaling won't be an issue for you.

[ABED]

I can't take you seriously if your legitimately trying to imply Gohan couldn't easily defeat Pure Buu.

You insult my education when you seem to not know basic math. If you get around to watch Super I guess at least the power scaling won't be an issue for you.

The power scaling is an issue that entire arc. The logic lacks coherence, and while it can be assumed that because Gohan can defeat Super Buu, he could defeat Kid Buu, the logic doesn't neccessarily track. Majin Buu is weaker than Super Buu even though he absorbed two Kaioshins. So it doesn't always add to his power. The way I had it explained to me is Kid Buu is pure Buu. Absorbing CAN make him stronger but it can also dilute his power. That makes as much sense to me as anything in this arc. Just think about how little sense the various forms of Buu make.

How is any of this basic math?

I guess at least the power scaling won't be an issue for you.

And you'd be wrong. You wouldn't even have to know me personally, but I've made numerous posts on this very issue.

[MR.Mark]

So your saying a Buu that Goku was scared to fight with, who Gohan mopped the floor with, is weaker than a Buu Goku could fight on equal terms as a ssj3?

OK then...

Genki Dama is yet another weak argument, basic logic implies the ki needs to be much stronger than the enemy to complete destroy them. This is why it failed against Vegeta and Freeza, I see no issue.

[OhHiRenan]

But they like reaching out for help from anyone who doesn't conveniently have the power to one shot Buu?

How does this make any sense? Please explain why it's in character for them to reach out to earth and how that is better writing? You won't be able to and will tap dance around it with mochachinos and other big words.

This all assumes he can one shot Buu.

Your insistance that deus ex machina is a big term is just silly. I don't know about your high school, but I was taught the term in 10th grade English. And mochaccino? Are you implying that I'm being pretentious?

Gohan could have mopped Pure Boo

And yet he gives up a ton of his power to the Genki Dama but that's still not enough?

The Genki Dama is fueled from a different source of energy than regular Ki. Of course Gohan's alone wasn't enough to kill Boo, it's working with its own set of rules.

Genki Dama is yet another weak argument, basic logic implies the ki needs to be much stronger than the enemy to complete destroy them. This is why it failed against Vegeta and Freeza, I see no issue.

Both those Genki Damas didn't have the extreme advantage the last one against Pure Boo had. It makes sense that those two failed.

[MR.Mark]

In simpler terms, they didn't have enough power, I know.

[ABED]

Against Vegeta, the Genki Dama wasn't at full power. Goku lost a lot of it when Vegeta hit him with that blast.

The Genki Dama is fueled from a different source of energy than regular Ki. Of course Gohan's alone wasn't enough to kill Boo, it's working with its own set of rules.

The Genki Dama used against Buu was different. In the past, the attack simply used a tiny amount of energy from the planet or surrounding planets. Against Buu, Goku got every ounce of spare energy every Earthling had, including Gohan, and the rest of the Z Team.

[MR.Mark]

So what? None of that disproves the idea that the Genki Dama needs a hell of a lot of ki to destroy an enemy. All we have to go on is the only successful one, which was against Buu.

[ABED]

So what? None of that disproves the idea that the Genki Dama needs a hell of a lot of ki to destroy an enemy. All we have to go on is the only successful one, which was against Buu.

Not saying it disproves, but it certainly does put a question mark on whether Gohan is strong enough to one shot pure Buu. I'm not even sure what your point is here. Of course the Genki Dama needs a hell of a lot of energy, but if Gohan can one shot Buu, then taking most of his power should be enough for the Genki Dama to be strong enough. We don't have enough to be certain. We have conjecture.

[TheDragonBallGuy75]

Buu arc suffered from tremendous directional issues, arguably worse than the Cell arc. SSJ3 came out of nowhere, no build up, no explanation just "look at me, I hit the next level!"
Fusion was a pointless gimmick, Vegeta's sacrifice was almost meaningless, and Ultimate Gohan (who was arguably stronger than his father) got sidelined in barely any time at all.

Compared to the plot ridden mess that is the Buu arc even GT had more consistency, at least it didn't try to pointlessly build up characters, it was made obvious from the get-go that most of the cast was useless.

Super may have some questionable plot choices, but so far it seems fairly consistent (if somewhat weak) in its storytelling.

[ABED]

Vegeta giving up his life was a big turning point in his arc. Beating Buu is not the only way for it to have had meaning. Otherwise, I agree.

[MR.Mark]

So what? None of that disproves the idea that the Genki Dama needs a hell of a lot of ki to destroy an enemy. All we have to go on is the only successful one, which was against Buu.

Not saying it disproves, but it certainly does put a question mark on whether Gohan is strong enough to one shot pure Buu.

Only if you choose to believe that the Genki dama takes ALL of a person's power/it doesn't take a lot of ki to destroy an enemy with the attack.

Also are you choosing to ignore Goku being afraid of Super buu but willing and able to fight equally with Pure Buu?

Seriously what was the point of Gohan's ultimate power up? You seriously don't believe he was the strongest unfused character at that point in the story?

[MarCas92]

I hate it when these threads devolve into power scale/power level discussions....

But personally, no. Despite its MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY problems at least Super has focus and knows where it's stories are supposed to start and end. There may not be as many hype moments or character development in some peoples opinions, but I think the story telling is better overall and I think that's the most important thing. The only arc in Super that can compare to the Boo Arc imo is the Trunks arc, but thats only because of how all over the place it gets after they travel to the future.