Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
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Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
This is probably a question that's been answered thousands of times on here, but why doesn't he? If Super Saiyan Blue is the "God version of Super Saiyan", can't Goku also use his god abilities and push it one step further with the transformations he's already unlocked such as Super Saiyan 2 and 3. I know many people are speculating he might get a new transformation in the latest arc, but still: It seems like such a waste that they're just re-using Super Saiyan Blue for the entirety of Super when we could be seeing Super Saiyan 2/3 Blue. Or who's to say Super Saiyan 2 wouldn't be ORANGE when fused with godly power and Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't be PURPLE?
I just feel like it's a waste on Toriyama and Toei's part to not have Goku do this when he's already brought back Kaioken to his transformation. Personally, I would like to see Super Saiyan 2/3 God before we get to any new transformation, but then again: Fans would probably just be rightfully pissed about how it doesn't make sense how Goku still is underpowered against foes where his Super Saiyan 3 Blue (or whatever it's called) should be able to take care of everything. All in all, Toei just needs to find a way to better explain why Goku's Blue form isn't all that powerful. Literally, if you look at it as yellow hair instead of blue - The problem of Kale taking him out suddenly makes sense again.
But back to the main topic: Yeah, why not god versions of Super Saiyan 2 and 3? Do you think we'll ever see them or is there an explanation as to why we aren't ever seeing them? Someone, please explain this. Perhaps, Goku and Vegeta are at their absolute limit like others have stated?
EDIT: Also, how unique and cool would it have been if Goku had unveiled the Super Saiyan 2 God transformation during the Goku Black arc. I mean, he trained with Vegeta in the Time Chamber for three years (am i right?) so he should've revealed new transformations each arc. CHAMPA ARC (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken), GOKU BLACK ARC (Super Saiyan 2 Blue?), UNIVERSE SURVIVAL (Super Saiyan 3 Blue?). This would almost be Toriyama and Toei's way of saying we're catching up to the end of the series similar to how Z had Super Saiyan 3 during Buu Saga, Super would have Super Saiyan 3 Blue near the end of the series. Thoughts?
I just feel like it's a waste on Toriyama and Toei's part to not have Goku do this when he's already brought back Kaioken to his transformation. Personally, I would like to see Super Saiyan 2/3 God before we get to any new transformation, but then again: Fans would probably just be rightfully pissed about how it doesn't make sense how Goku still is underpowered against foes where his Super Saiyan 3 Blue (or whatever it's called) should be able to take care of everything. All in all, Toei just needs to find a way to better explain why Goku's Blue form isn't all that powerful. Literally, if you look at it as yellow hair instead of blue - The problem of Kale taking him out suddenly makes sense again.
But back to the main topic: Yeah, why not god versions of Super Saiyan 2 and 3? Do you think we'll ever see them or is there an explanation as to why we aren't ever seeing them? Someone, please explain this. Perhaps, Goku and Vegeta are at their absolute limit like others have stated?
EDIT: Also, how unique and cool would it have been if Goku had unveiled the Super Saiyan 2 God transformation during the Goku Black arc. I mean, he trained with Vegeta in the Time Chamber for three years (am i right?) so he should've revealed new transformations each arc. CHAMPA ARC (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken), GOKU BLACK ARC (Super Saiyan 2 Blue?), UNIVERSE SURVIVAL (Super Saiyan 3 Blue?). This would almost be Toriyama and Toei's way of saying we're catching up to the end of the series similar to how Z had Super Saiyan 3 during Buu Saga, Super would have Super Saiyan 3 Blue near the end of the series. Thoughts?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Maybe the use of god ki just makes it harder to ascend to higher SSJ levels, just like how kaioken blue could have potentialy killed him If goku performed it wrong. Just a guess though.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
I'd presume it's because that Super Saiyan Blue is really just using Super Saiyan as a container or conduit for his reserve of special new god-power, and using Super Saiyan 2 or 3 to channel it instead wouldn't actually make him any stronger.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
I always saw it as him using the SSJ form to channel the God Ki, and using the higher forms would defeat the purpose of trying to control that ki and keep it inside, because the other forms are more straining. Especially 3. Pretty much making it much more difficult to contain the God Ki.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
He probably can but SSB according to the anime drains their stamina quickly and I'd assume going ssb2 or ssb3 would drain them quite rapidly.
Wouldn't be wise to now just suddenly use it in the tournament, but who knows down the road?
Wouldn't be wise to now just suddenly use it in the tournament, but who knows down the road?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Maybe he just can't? Could be a Super Saiyan+Kaioken thing where the two higher forms are too draining or turbulent to combine with God Ki.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Could be that Super Saiyan 1 is a base form of the Super Saiyan transformation, which is then augmented by differently managing its power to increase overall output at the expense of stamina(SS2 and 3), and going Blue is simply a different augmentation of the base transformation, which can't have its power output increased by further augmenting it in the same way as the base form can, due to the way god ki functions and interacts with the Super Saiyan form.
Perhaps they can do SS2 Blue or SS3 Blue, but it doesn't actually increase the power output, and ends up just being a less-efficient form of Blue that just looks kinda cool.
Plus, I seem to remember Toriyama always said Vegeta was right to stick to base Super Saiyan originally, and that if Goku focused on just training his base SS form up, it'd be just as strong as his SS3 ended up, as SS3 is basically just a cheap shortcut to more power. Maybe this all ties into that view from Toriyama.
Perhaps they can do SS2 Blue or SS3 Blue, but it doesn't actually increase the power output, and ends up just being a less-efficient form of Blue that just looks kinda cool.
Plus, I seem to remember Toriyama always said Vegeta was right to stick to base Super Saiyan originally, and that if Goku focused on just training his base SS form up, it'd be just as strong as his SS3 ended up, as SS3 is basically just a cheap shortcut to more power. Maybe this all ties into that view from Toriyama.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
I think Toriyama answers it for you if in the context of the quote you replace Super Saiyan with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan:
I think here is where Toriyama was incepting the idea of SSGSS, anyway as the others have said it looks to be redundant to go SSGSS2 or 3, it is different with regular SS and 2 as he already has access to those forms but it'd be pointless to get SSGSS2 and 3. We saw the massive drawbacks of SS3 in the Buu arc and how it accomplished nothing, that mixed with God Ki sounds like a recipe for disaster.Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Daimo-Rukiri wrote:He probably can but SSB according to the anime drains their stamina quickly and I'd assume going ssb2 or ssb3 would drain them quite rapidly.
Wouldn't be wise to now just suddenly use it in the tournament, but who knows down the road?
These sound like the most logical reasons to me, the Cell arc showed that focusing on refining the base form was the right course of action, and SSJ3, as powerful as it is, drains energy so quickly that you can only use it (and presumably 2) in a pinch, something Gotenks had to learn the hard way when up against Super Buu.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I think Toriyama answers it for you if in the context of the quote you replace Super Saiyan with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan:Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
Wouldn't surprise me though if later down the line we got a "I figured out how to use SSJ3 without it draining energy" reveal. I always kinda assumed SSJ1 did that, am I wrong?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
At this point I think it is safe to say SS3 is a dud and Goku understandably isn't bothering with it at all, post Buu arc from what I remember we only saw Goku go SS3 twice, once against Beerus and once vs Future Trunks I can't remember any other time.KBABZ wrote: These sound like the most logical reasons to me, the Cell arc showed that focusing on refining the base form was the right course of action, and SSJ3, as powerful as it is, drains energy so quickly that you can only use it (and presumably 2) in a pinch, something Gotenks had to learn the hard way when up against Super Buu.
Wouldn't surprise me though if later down the line we got a "I figured out how to use SSJ3 without it draining energy" reveal. I always kinda assumed SSJ1 did that, am I wrong?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
I always just assumed it was because those hypothetical forms don't exist.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
How many transformations does the guy need?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
SSGSSJ3+KK is the only way to turn up to Bulma's Disco party!ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Hey! Don't diss the Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 Rosé Rage Kaioken Giant Form Ozaru Four-Arm Multi-Form 4-Way Fusion!ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
(As a side-note, I wonder how long that fusion would last...)
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
You forgot the pickles!Robo4900 wrote:Hey! Don't diss the Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 Rosé Rage Kaioken Giant Form Ozaru Four-Arm Multi-Form 4-Way Fusion!ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
Probably long enough for the opponent to laugh at it, then it goes away!Robo4900 wrote:(As a side-note, I wonder how long that fusion would last...)
Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
I think Blue is just the perfected version of the Super Saiyan with SSG power that Goku used in his battle with Beerus. It's just a conduit to SSG's power, but it's a little stronger than it probably because of the better ki control.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
It isn't the perfected version of anything; if it was perfect, we wouldn't be able to have any more transformations in the future, so we can be pretty sure there's at least some room for improvement.
But yeah, that's as good an assessment as any.
But yeah, that's as good an assessment as any.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
Outside explanation:
Because it will likely cheapen the transformations to the point that you'll be wondering why they don't just introduce super saiyan shapes (SSJ triangle, anyone?)
In Universe:
Probably to do with stamina constraints and what Goku and Vegeta's bodies can handle. Of course there may also be other conditions to access those forms (assuming they are a thing).
Because it will likely cheapen the transformations to the point that you'll be wondering why they don't just introduce super saiyan shapes (SSJ triangle, anyone?)
In Universe:
Probably to do with stamina constraints and what Goku and Vegeta's bodies can handle. Of course there may also be other conditions to access those forms (assuming they are a thing).
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Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?
He'll do if they run out of merchandising opportunities. Though admittedly SSJ3B would be somewhat cool if this was like a total last resort move (moreso than Kaio-Ken)
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