Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
mecha3000
Regular
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:00 pm

Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by mecha3000 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:23 pm

This is probably a question that's been answered thousands of times on here, but why doesn't he? If Super Saiyan Blue is the "God version of Super Saiyan", can't Goku also use his god abilities and push it one step further with the transformations he's already unlocked such as Super Saiyan 2 and 3. I know many people are speculating he might get a new transformation in the latest arc, but still: It seems like such a waste that they're just re-using Super Saiyan Blue for the entirety of Super when we could be seeing Super Saiyan 2/3 Blue. Or who's to say Super Saiyan 2 wouldn't be ORANGE when fused with godly power and Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't be PURPLE?

I just feel like it's a waste on Toriyama and Toei's part to not have Goku do this when he's already brought back Kaioken to his transformation. Personally, I would like to see Super Saiyan 2/3 God before we get to any new transformation, but then again: Fans would probably just be rightfully pissed about how it doesn't make sense how Goku still is underpowered against foes where his Super Saiyan 3 Blue (or whatever it's called) should be able to take care of everything. All in all, Toei just needs to find a way to better explain why Goku's Blue form isn't all that powerful. Literally, if you look at it as yellow hair instead of blue - The problem of Kale taking him out suddenly makes sense again.

But back to the main topic: Yeah, why not god versions of Super Saiyan 2 and 3? Do you think we'll ever see them or is there an explanation as to why we aren't ever seeing them? Someone, please explain this. Perhaps, Goku and Vegeta are at their absolute limit like others have stated?

EDIT: Also, how unique and cool would it have been if Goku had unveiled the Super Saiyan 2 God transformation during the Goku Black arc. I mean, he trained with Vegeta in the Time Chamber for three years (am i right?) so he should've revealed new transformations each arc. CHAMPA ARC (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken), GOKU BLACK ARC (Super Saiyan 2 Blue?), UNIVERSE SURVIVAL (Super Saiyan 3 Blue?). This would almost be Toriyama and Toei's way of saying we're catching up to the end of the series similar to how Z had Super Saiyan 3 during Buu Saga, Super would have Super Saiyan 3 Blue near the end of the series. Thoughts?

DragonBallKing
Regular
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:44 pm
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by DragonBallKing » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:01 pm

Maybe the use of god ki just makes it harder to ascend to higher SSJ levels, just like how kaioken blue could have potentialy killed him If goku performed it wrong. Just a guess though.
Check out my MAL page: https://myanimelist.net/profile/RapeHorse


Original Dragon Ball arcs ranking: 23rd Budokai, Saiyan, 21st Budokai, Red Ribbon, Freeza, Piccolo Daimao, 22nd Budokai, DB Hunt, Cell, Buu

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14373
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Kaboom » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:06 pm

I'd presume it's because that Super Saiyan Blue is really just using Super Saiyan as a container or conduit for his reserve of special new god-power, and using Super Saiyan 2 or 3 to channel it instead wouldn't actually make him any stronger.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

User avatar
Boo Machine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 7:44 pm
Location: On the Track to NoWhere

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:16 pm

I always saw it as him using the SSJ form to channel the God Ki, and using the higher forms would defeat the purpose of trying to control that ki and keep it inside, because the other forms are more straining. Especially 3. Pretty much making it much more difficult to contain the God Ki.
SUBARASHII! - Goku Black

I am the Great Saiyaman! Defender of truth! Protector of the innocent! Upholder of justice! Doer of good!

To Infinity, then stop!

Anime are Cartoons.

User avatar
Daimo-Rukiri
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:44 am
Location: U..S..A..

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Daimo-Rukiri » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:22 pm

He probably can but SSB according to the anime drains their stamina quickly and I'd assume going ssb2 or ssb3 would drain them quite rapidly.
Wouldn't be wise to now just suddenly use it in the tournament, but who knows down the road?
Steam: Rukiri89 | uPlay: Rukiri89 | Origin: XxRukiriXx | Xbox LIVE: XxRUKIRIxX89 | PSN: Ericks1989 | Nintendo Network ID: Rukiri

Dragon Ball Hero's Spirit development blog - An Action-RPG coming soon to monitor near you!
https://dragonball-hs.tumblr.com/

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:22 pm

Maybe he just can't? Could be a Super Saiyan+Kaioken thing where the two higher forms are too draining or turbulent to combine with God Ki.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:52 pm

Could be that Super Saiyan 1 is a base form of the Super Saiyan transformation, which is then augmented by differently managing its power to increase overall output at the expense of stamina(SS2 and 3), and going Blue is simply a different augmentation of the base transformation, which can't have its power output increased by further augmenting it in the same way as the base form can, due to the way god ki functions and interacts with the Super Saiyan form.

Perhaps they can do SS2 Blue or SS3 Blue, but it doesn't actually increase the power output, and ends up just being a less-efficient form of Blue that just looks kinda cool.

Plus, I seem to remember Toriyama always said Vegeta was right to stick to base Super Saiyan originally, and that if Goku focused on just training his base SS form up, it'd be just as strong as his SS3 ended up, as SS3 is basically just a cheap shortcut to more power. Maybe this all ties into that view from Toriyama.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:56 pm

I think Toriyama answers it for you if in the context of the quote you replace Super Saiyan with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan:
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
I think here is where Toriyama was incepting the idea of SSGSS, anyway as the others have said it looks to be redundant to go SSGSS2 or 3, it is different with regular SS and 2 as he already has access to those forms but it'd be pointless to get SSGSS2 and 3. We saw the massive drawbacks of SS3 in the Buu arc and how it accomplished nothing, that mixed with God Ki sounds like a recipe for disaster.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:08 pm

Daimo-Rukiri wrote:He probably can but SSB according to the anime drains their stamina quickly and I'd assume going ssb2 or ssb3 would drain them quite rapidly.
Wouldn't be wise to now just suddenly use it in the tournament, but who knows down the road?
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I think Toriyama answers it for you if in the context of the quote you replace Super Saiyan with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan:
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
These sound like the most logical reasons to me, the Cell arc showed that focusing on refining the base form was the right course of action, and SSJ3, as powerful as it is, drains energy so quickly that you can only use it (and presumably 2) in a pinch, something Gotenks had to learn the hard way when up against Super Buu.

Wouldn't surprise me though if later down the line we got a "I figured out how to use SSJ3 without it draining energy" reveal. I always kinda assumed SSJ1 did that, am I wrong?

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:03 am

KBABZ wrote: These sound like the most logical reasons to me, the Cell arc showed that focusing on refining the base form was the right course of action, and SSJ3, as powerful as it is, drains energy so quickly that you can only use it (and presumably 2) in a pinch, something Gotenks had to learn the hard way when up against Super Buu.

Wouldn't surprise me though if later down the line we got a "I figured out how to use SSJ3 without it draining energy" reveal. I always kinda assumed SSJ1 did that, am I wrong?
At this point I think it is safe to say SS3 is a dud and Goku understandably isn't bothering with it at all, post Buu arc from what I remember we only saw Goku go SS3 twice, once against Beerus and once vs Future Trunks I can't remember any other time.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:23 am

I always just assumed it was because those hypothetical forms don't exist.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:44 am

How many transformations does the guy need?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:23 am

ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
SSGSSJ3+KK is the only way to turn up to Bulma's Disco party!

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:50 am

ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
Hey! Don't diss the Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 Rosé Rage Kaioken Giant Form Ozaru Four-Arm Multi-Form 4-Way Fusion!

(As a side-note, I wonder how long that fusion would last...)
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:51 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
ABED wrote:How many transformations does the guy need?
Hey! Don't diss the Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 Rosé Rage Kaioken Giant Form Ozaru Four-Arm Multi-Form 4-Way Fusion!
You forgot the pickles!
Robo4900 wrote:(As a side-note, I wonder how long that fusion would last...)
Probably long enough for the opponent to laugh at it, then it goes away!

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by emperior » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:24 am

I think Blue is just the perfected version of the Super Saiyan with SSG power that Goku used in his battle with Beerus. It's just a conduit to SSG's power, but it's a little stronger than it probably because of the better ki control.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:34 am

It isn't the perfected version of anything; if it was perfect, we wouldn't be able to have any more transformations in the future, so we can be pretty sure there's at least some room for improvement.

But yeah, that's as good an assessment as any.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
TheDragonBallGuy75
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by TheDragonBallGuy75 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:28 pm

Outside explanation:
Because it will likely cheapen the transformations to the point that you'll be wondering why they don't just introduce super saiyan shapes (SSJ triangle, anyone?)

In Universe:
Probably to do with stamina constraints and what Goku and Vegeta's bodies can handle. Of course there may also be other conditions to access those forms (assuming they are a thing).
Someone asked me why I invest so much time into collecting Dragonball doujinshi.
I answered, "Because I don't see anyone else doing it".

My websites for all your Dragon Ball fan manga needs
http://www.dbfcscans.blogspot.com
https://twitter.com/DragonBallGuy75
https://www.facebook.com/DB-Fan-Manga-309854729705080/
https://discord.gg/qc49vtB

User avatar
Beek King
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:41 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Why doesn't Goku transform into the God versions of SS2 and SS3?

Post by Beek King » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:09 pm

He'll do if they run out of merchandising opportunities. Though admittedly SSJ3B would be somewhat cool if this was like a total last resort move (moreso than Kaio-Ken)
Do whatever you like, ghost.

Post Reply