Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by sintzu » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:27 am

Kanassa wrote:Bardock, History of Trunks, Hirudigarn, all took creative directions and even some risks
Bardock is the main character's father and looks exactly like him while the Trunks special is based on Toriyama's story.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:38 am

sintzu wrote:
Kanassa wrote:Bardock, History of Trunks, Hirudigarn, all took creative directions and even some risks
Bardock is the main character's father and looks exactly like him while the Trunks special is based on Toriyama's story.
And he has a completely different personality, in a story with a different atmosphere. Yeah, HoT is based on a Tori story, but TOEI took many different turns with it that make it such a well remembered special, they took risks and it paid off.

Toei have taken risks, they've done plenty of creative stuff, just because they've also done stuff you don't like doesn't change that.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:58 am

ABED wrote:And? You mistakenly believe bad guys need to be 100 percent rational.

Good point

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Also I didn't really interpret the the movie hating Goku because of his crying
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:32 am

If you compare Broly's motivation to real life then yeah that might sound dumb. People should stop comparing an anime to real life, that's just dumb. It would have been the same if Broly hated Vegeta instead of King Vegeta... if you compare it to real life it will also sound dumb "I will kill you because your father tried to kill me and I don't even know you but I will still kill you!"... his father tried to kill him, not Vegeta... I'm sorry that doesn't sound clever to me irl. But in DBZ's universe all of those little things make sense. (hello beerus who wants to destroy everything because he didn't get his pudding!)

The crying thing won't sound dumb if you think that way : whenever Broly sees Goku and hears that constant crying he remembers of what happened to him when he was a baby, so that might trigger him and if he keeps hearing the same thing in his head that'll drive him crazy as well. Or he just hates Kakarot because kekerewt is the main character. End of story.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:44 am

There are a lot of dumb motivations in real life for things, including murder. Have you not heard about the mother who hired a hitman to take out her daughter's cheerleading rival? I can easily buy someone holding this sort of thing against a son for what their father did.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:52 am

And yeah some people get killed for no specific reason irl... and this is an anime, a different/unreal universe, every character is different and doesn't need to act the same way. Freezer kills people for no reason, Broly wants to kill Kakarot because he bothered him, Kale wants to kill everyone who takes her sishie away from her, Beerus would kill anyone for food... all these things make no sense irl and would sound pretty dumb if someone tells you "look, I killed your sister because she took my bf away from me!" or "look i killed someone because he didnt give me food"...
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:58 am

What constitutes a reason?
all these things make no sense irl.
Are any of those really any worse than the gas station attendant who gets a bullet for whatever is in the register? Again, I point to the mother trying to take out her daughter's cheerleading rival.
Last edited by ABED on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:01 am

BrolyKale wrote:And yeah some people get killed for no specific reason irl... and this is an anime, a different/unreal universe, every character is different and doesn't need to act the same way. Freezer kills people for no reason, Broly wants to kill Kakarot because he bothered him, Kale wants to kill everyone who takes her sishie away from her, Beerus would kill anyone for food... all these things make no sense irl and would sound pretty dumb if someone tells you "look, I killed your sister because she took my bf away from me!" or "look i killed someone because he didnt give me food"...
You're not taking into account of author intent. Broly's motivation is supposed to be taken seriously, Beerus's motivation is meant to be dumb and petty.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:02 am

Agreed, but I will point out that's not really Beerus's motivation. He's the god of destruction. It's his duty to destroy planets.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:08 am

Kanassa wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:And yeah some people get killed for no specific reason irl... and this is an anime, a different/unreal universe, every character is different and doesn't need to act the same way. Freezer kills people for no reason, Broly wants to kill Kakarot because he bothered him, Kale wants to kill everyone who takes her sishie away from her, Beerus would kill anyone for food... all these things make no sense irl and would sound pretty dumb if someone tells you "look, I killed your sister because she took my bf away from me!" or "look i killed someone because he didnt give me food"...
You're not taking into account of author intent. Broly's motivation is supposed to be taken seriously, Beerus's motivation is meant to be dumb and petty.
Doesn't matter... its just a reason like another. Beerus is a god of destruction, ok, but the guy keeps sleeping and doesn't even do his job well and then he starts destroying stuff because of food that sounds dumb too, sorry. Everything sounds dumb if you compare it to real life.
Last edited by BrolyKale on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:09 am

ABED wrote:Agreed, but I will point out that's not really Beerus's motivation. He's the god of destruction. It's his duty to destroy planets.
A duty he doesn't take seriously. In fact, in Super he's visited by his Boss to ask why he hasn't been doing his work. Hell, the reason why Universe 7 is on the chopping block is because Beerus and Supreme Kai suck at their jobs.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:09 am

BrolyKale wrote:
Kanassa wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:And yeah some people get killed for no specific reason irl... and this is an anime, a different/unreal universe, every character is different and doesn't need to act the same way. Freezer kills people for no reason, Broly wants to kill Kakarot because he bothered him, Kale wants to kill everyone who takes her sishie away from her, Beerus would kill anyone for food... all these things make no sense irl and would sound pretty dumb if someone tells you "look, I killed your sister because she took my bf away from me!" or "look i killed someone because he didnt give me food"...
You're not taking into account of author intent. Broly's motivation is supposed to be taken seriously, Beerus's motivation is meant to be dumb and petty.
Doesn't matter... its just a reason like another. Beerus is a god of destruction, ok, but the guy keeps sleeping and doesn't even do his job well and then he starts destroying stuff because of food that sounds dumb too, sorry.
Yes, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DUMB.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:11 am

So it is dumb in every way. You don't have to take Broly's motivation seriously dude, its just an anime. Kale wanted to kill Cabba because they were being friendly in front of her... idk idk they just all sound so dumb irl.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:18 am

BrolyKale wrote:
Kanassa wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:And yeah some people get killed for no specific reason irl... and this is an anime, a different/unreal universe, every character is different and doesn't need to act the same way. Freezer kills people for no reason, Broly wants to kill Kakarot because he bothered him, Kale wants to kill everyone who takes her sishie away from her, Beerus would kill anyone for food... all these things make no sense irl and would sound pretty dumb if someone tells you "look, I killed your sister because she took my bf away from me!" or "look i killed someone because he didnt give me food"...
You're not taking into account of author intent. Broly's motivation is supposed to be taken seriously, Beerus's motivation is meant to be dumb and petty.
Doesn't matter... its just a reason like another. Beerus is a god of destruction, ok, but the guy keeps sleeping and doesn't even do his job well and then he starts destroying stuff because of food that sounds dumb too, sorry. Everything sounds dumb if you compare it to real life.
Are you not reading my comments? You assume real life motivations are better when that's not the case.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:21 am

^I've never said that... I'm just saying that Broly's motivation might sound dumb (to some people) because they try to compare it to real life I've been reading comments on youtube and some people say "how can broly even remember this?" or "just because goku cried? tell me this is a joke..." this just proves they are comparing it to real life which is dumb... but do they even know that people get killed for no reason or for some stupid reasons irl too? I just wanted to prove that Broly's motivation, in an anime (DBZ's universe), is pretty acceptable and won't sound that dumb if you stop comparing it to real life. Same goes for any other characters.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:44 am

BrolyKale wrote:So it is dumb in every way. You don't have to take Broly's motivation seriously dude, its just an anime.
Can you actually read my posts? Beerus's motivation is dumb, it is made to be dumb, it is supposed to be seen as dumb. Broly's motivation is supposed to be taken seriously, it is written to be taken seriously, and thus the ludicrous nature of it is a failing on the writer's part(Though it should be mentioned that Goku crying is not Broly's motivation)
Kale wanted to kill Cabba because they were being friendly in front of her...
A person with a sever case of inferiority complex, mixed in with being a species who's transformations from rage with transformations being known to make their more primal instincts take front and centre, going berserk at a hint of the only person tey seem to have possiably finding someone better makes plenty of sense.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:47 am

I do think Broly's "motivations" sound dumb because he was a baby but somehow remembers Goku causing him to cry? I realize it's fiction but even that is a step too much for me. He is way more peeved at that than being left for dead. I realize that fiction has its own rules but that's too big of a buy, both that he'd remember and that would matter more to anyone than attempted murder.
Goku crying is not Broly's motivation
What is?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:51 am

ABED wrote:
Goku crying is not Broly's motivation
What is?
The movie only has one actual reference to Broly's motivation, that is Paragus speculation. In the structure of a narrative, this practically the writer turning to the audience to tell them that the speculation is true. Paragus wonders if Goku's power level is so big that it awakened Broly's Saiyan rage. The whole scene with Goku crying next to Broly is to push forth the thematic sense of the two being linked together by destiny (Which is the only thing Paragus mentions when remembering that scene).
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:56 am

It doesn't matter if Broly's motivation seems dumb, it is acceptable and its a reason like another. Who said Broly couldn't remember his birth? no one. There's nothing that prevents him to remember his birth like there's nothing that prevents U6 Saiyans to be stronger than U7 Saiyans. Its an anime, you can do whatever you want. Some characters can even read minds or w/e.
Last edited by BrolyKale on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people believe Broly hating Vegeta is a better plot?

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:57 am

Kanassa wrote:
ABED wrote:
Goku crying is not Broly's motivation
What is?
The movie only has one actual reference to Broly's motivation, that is Paragus speculation. In the structure of a narrative, this practically the writer turning to the audience to tell them that the speculation is true. Paragus wonders if Goku's power level is so big that it awakened Broly's Saiyan rage. The whole scene with Goku crying next to Broly is to push forth the thematic sense of the two being linked together by destiny (Which is the only thing Paragus mentions when remembering that scene).
That's still weak sauce. Broly hates him because destiny? That truly is a lack of motivation. If I recall, there's a flashback to Goku making Broly cry right before his "death" so clearly it's an important moment.
it is acceptable and its a reason like another
To who?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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