Did Dragon Ball REALLY need Funimation to thrive?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't have a problem with Sabat playing three significant roles, nor have I ever. Funimation didn't have a lot of money back then so they can be forgiven for trying to squeeze out as much as they could from actors like Sabat. While Sabat had a rough start I don't have a problem with him nowadays in the Kai: Final Chapters and Super dubs. He has also developed roles such as Vegeta, Piccolo and Yamcha so much that there is enough subtle difference in their performances to justify him playing all of them. I would still prefer McNeil for Piccolo, but from a business perspective I can understand Funimation not bringing him in, and Sabat, while not as great is still more than serviceable in the role.

[KBABZ]

Sucks to hear that about Nadolny, Kid Goku is easily my favourite voice. But, I also really like Clickenbeard as Young Gohan as well. It's weird watching old clips of DBZ and hearing Goku's voice coming out of Gohan's mouth, similarly to the odd occasion when Young Gohan's voice comes out of Kid Goku in Kai.

Was there any stated reason why Oolong's voice actor didn't return for Kai?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Absolutely not. Like some have already said, all Dragon Ball needed was to be on TV. It didn't matter who dubbed it as long as it got on TV. In fact, Funimation should consider themselves lucky that they got Dragon Ball in the first place.

Well not really. They have to get on TV, get a good slot, not get moved around a lot, get promoted, not given up on if it doesn't work right away, etc, etc. Like I said earlier, another company tried to release DB in the states and failed.

I'm pretty sure it was Saban who was largely responsible for getting Funimation's version of DBZ on TV back then. They were an established company in the TV market as they had the track record of creating huge successes such as Power Rangers and even worked with Marvel on other successful shows like Spider-Man and X-Men animated series. Without them and their connections (and possibly their funding too), Funimation would likely not have been able to get the show on TV as they were an unproven and inexperienced company. Funimation were in a very lucky position to be able to get their hands on the Dragon Ball license due to Gen Fukunaga's family connections at Toei, without that in his favour he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near it and Toei would've most likely gone with a more experienced American company instead. Whether that would've turned out for better or worse really depends on which company got it instead, companies like Saban and 4Kids wouldn't have given us faithful scripts or music but their success in the kids TV market would have guaranteed mainstream air time (think Digimon for Saban and Pokemon or Yugioh for 4Kids). I don't think Saban would've been too interested in DBZ at the time though, after the backlash to violence in Power Rangers they were probably steering clear of martial arts cartoons, especially something as bloody as DBZ (plus according to Ron Wasserman, he seems to think they cared very little for the show), as for 4kids they were probably too busy with Pokemon to really care, they might've looked into acquiring it later on alongside Yugioh but, by that point, another company would have likely scooped up the rights.

Pioneer and Bandai were known for more faithful and respectable anime dubs at the time with decent budgets behind them (unlike ADV's lower budget dubs for instance) so they would have been more preferable, they also managed to eventually secure TV deals for other anime with Toonami but it's difficult to determine if they needed that door to be opened first by Dragon Ball Z or if the Pokemon boom was enough to spark an incentive for channels like Toonami to take the plunge into anime regardless. At any rate, without the reach of Toonami I don't think it would have become such a mainstream hit. That really would have been pivotal advertising for either company. Viz media was another company with a similar approach to the other two however they have always been more focused on selling manga so I'm not sure they would have been aggressive enough to pursue and invest in mainstream television options for DBZ, although there was a bit of a push for Naruto to be seen on television later on so who knows.

I personally think it would have worked out better if Pioneer or Bandai had been the ones to get the license because, like Funimation, they were geared towards selling the anime on home video, the difference being that, as we saw from Pioneer's DBZ movie releases (and Bandai's anime releases too), they favoured a faithful approach from the get go rather than trying to pander to a mainstream child market. These companies also had deep enough pockets to afford decent acting talent whether it be from LA or Vancouver, that means a faithful, well-acted dub from day one without sitting through 10 years of Sabat and Schemmel learning on the job in order to "get good" and Sabat being cast in so many roles due to budget. This also means no replacement music so no Ron Wasserman or Bruce Faulconer and of course, none of Funimation's questionable script alterations. I don't think it would have always been perfect this way however, for instance, thanks to the U.S. release of Final Bout we had a taste of what Bandai's LA castings might have sounded like (albeit without any care or proper direction since it was a throwaway video game) but as someone who was very fond of most of the Vancouver casting choices I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the acting as much had they stayed on that path with the series, both companies did use Ocean's dubbing services for certain anime so there was always a chance it would still fall to them somehow (especially if they could handle any visual edits and censorship internally) but there was always a chance we could have gotten LA castings instead, for better or worse.

Overall I don't think Funimation deserve much credit for DBZ being able to thrive, sure they got the ball rolling by acquiring the license and moving forward with it but, like I mentioned, they owed a lot of what they accomplished to Saban's connections and influence and the fact that they got their foot in the door with Toonami a few years later means another more competent anime distributor likely could've managed a similar deal, especially if they sold DBZ as part of a package of shows with other action anime in their library. If we're talking about the first Funimation DBZ dub being the reason that it thrived then I think a lot of credit should go to the Ocean Group and Ron Wasserman for their contributions and making that version work as well as it did - which was ultimately a good enough product on it's own to be sold to Toonami and become such a hit in reruns. I mean ask yourself this; would Funi have been able to sell an in-house dub with green actors from the very beginning or did they need the push from having Ocean's production's version of the first two seasons? Could Funimation have even created their own in-house dub without first learning the ropes from Ocean? Remember that they copied a lot of the business practices of the companies they worked with while on DBZ, from Saban's practice of replacing music and collecting music royalties to Pioneer's home release strategy to Ocean's dubbing practices (and even imitating the voices of the original Ocean cast) to even being influenced by Batman Beyond's soundtrack when choosing a third replacement score, they learned from the best and exploited those skills to their advantage. Without the learning experience that was gained through their various partnerships, Funimation would have failed miserably on their first try and I doubt they'd have been able to sell the show in whatever pitiful form it would be in. It's well documented that Funi knew nothing about anime localization when they first got the license, it's the reason they sought out Ocean for help in the first place.

We can obviously give credit to Funi for the success of their later in-house dubs but I still don't think you can look to that and say it was the sole reason DBZ was a success, DBZ thrived in every country it was in regardless of Funimation's involvement. Even in English speaking countries like the UK which, for the majority of their run, featured a completely different dub cast and different replacement music to Funimation's score, those English dubs still did exceedingly well. I think it's accurate to say that DBZ thrived despite Funimation's mistakes with it. It came out at the right time and was a fresh and interesting product for many around the world. Funimation weren't the ones who made it succeed, they were just the ones lucky enough to be selling it to an American market at the right time.

While I mostly do agree with all this, DBZ was adquired because the guys at Toonami were already familiar with it from fansubs and got the show on the just because they liked it. They didnt need "For otehr anime to be a success first"

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Despite how Funimation treated Dragon Ball until 2009, they have had my full respect since Dragon Ball Kai. They casted Chris Ayres, who is simply the best English voice for Frieza. I think people should give them enough credit for that.

If they had cast Ayres from episode 1 of Kai I would give them more credit for that, instead, it was very apparent that they wanted Linda Young back in the role and the recasting was more of a happy accident on their part. Because of that, I'm less inclined to praise them for it. I love Ayres' performance and have no problem directly praising him and what he did with the role but I don't feel the need to give Funimation props when they avoided recastings on Kai as much as possible from the outset. If they had taken more risks and perhaps also recast characters such as King Kai, Piccolo (or alternatively, Vegeta), Yamcha, Recoome, Kami and (dare I say) teenage Gohan I'd be more willing to give them praise. As far as I can tell the only reason Nadolny didn't come back as well was due to personal issues with the director (Sabat), if it wasn't for that we probably wouldn't have a new kid Gohan either. The recastings were improvements when they occurred but they didn't do them as often as they really should have in my opinion.

It might have been a happy accident but I still think Funimation deserves credit for recasting Freeza in Kai. Linda Young, while never suitable for Freeza did improve with time. It wasn't the right voice but by Kai it wasn't terrible. Ultimately while the attempt was made it didn't work out and Freeza was given a new actor when it was really needed (it wasn't in the first episode because we didn't get enough of Freeza and that appearance did little to affect the overall quality of the dub), much like Palpatine was recast for Return of The Jedi when the original actor did all they could. I applaud Sabat for giving Linda one last chance, they had a working relationship so it wasn't easy but when it was absolutely necessary the right decision was made to bring in Ayres.

I would have been interested in recasts for King Kai, Recoome, Kami and maybe Yamcha, definitely not Piccolo, Vegeta or teen Gohan though. Sabat was fantastic as Piccolo and Vegeta, Nadolny was miscast as teen Gohan and rightfully recast.

[ABED]

Why recast Kami? It makes sense that the same actor voicing Piccolo would also voice Kami.

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

[8000 Saiyan]

Why recast Kami? It makes sense that the same actor voicing Piccolo would also voice Kami.

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Piccolo Jr. in the Japanese version isn't voiced by the same person who voiced Kami.

[ABED]

Why recast Kami? It makes sense that the same actor voicing Piccolo would also voice Kami.

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Piccolo Jr. in the Japanese version isn't voiced by the same person who voiced Kami.

But Kami is voiced by the same actor who played Piccolo Daimao.

[8000 Saiyan]

Why recast Kami? It makes sense that the same actor voicing Piccolo would also voice Kami.

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Piccolo Jr. in the Japanese version isn't voiced by the same person who voiced Kami.

But Kami is voiced by the same actor who played Piccolo Daimao.

Yes, I know. But it isn't really necessary for them to be voiced by the same voice actor just because they were voiced by the same person in the Japanese version.

[ABED]

No, and I'm fine either way. Just because a character is or isn't voiced by the same actor in the original isn't a sufficient reason, but it shouldn't be dismissed either. In the case of Kami and Daimao, it makes sense because they are one person split in half. I like Piccolo as Kami. Yeah, the voice is put on, but I enjoy it.

[8000 Saiyan]

No, and I'm fine either way. Just because a character is or isn't voiced by the same actor in the original isn't a sufficient reason, but it shouldn't be dismissed either. In the case of Kami and Daimao, it makes sense because they are one person split in half. I like Piccolo as Kami. Yeah, the voice is put on, but I enjoy it.

Not a big fan of Sabat's Kami, but he's serviceable.

[KBABZ]

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

[ABED]

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

And you don't think the poor timeslot had ANYTHING to do with that?

[8000 Saiyan]

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

[ABED]

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

If that's true, the question is "why not?"

[8000 Saiyan]

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

If that's true, the question is "why not?"

I don't know exactly why. Was it the content that didn't interest them? Maybe, I don't know.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Dragon Ball was pretty popular in the US by raw and fan subs at the time so... I don't get why it wouldn't succeed, but changing the names didn't help I bet

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

DB succeeded pretty much everywhere, so why wouldn't it have succeeded without the changes made by FUNimation?

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

It was the fault of the broadcasters of the Harmony Gold dub, clearly they did nothing to promote the show. I don't know why Dragon Ball wouldn't have succeeded if it didn't have a good timeslot and channel that knew how to get people excited (as Toonami did for better or for worse) from the get-go.

[8000 Saiyan]

Well except for those first two times in 89 and 95.

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

It was the fault of the broadcasters of the Harmony Gold dub, clearly they did nothing to promote the show. I don't know why Dragon Ball wouldn't have succeeded if it didn't have a good timeslot and channel that knew how to get people excited (as Toonami did for better or for worse) from the get-go.

If that's the case, then thank God the Harmony Gold dub failed. I would have kept Barbara Goodson and Wendee Lee as Goku and Bulma, had Pioneer picked up Dragon Ball.

[ABED]

There's something to be said for timing but I doubt the HG dub's lack of success was because American kids didn't like it, but did seven years later.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It wasn't exactly Harmony Gold's fault for Dragon Ball not being a success in 1989. Dragon Ball failed in 1989 because audiences weren't interested in it.

It was the fault of the broadcasters of the Harmony Gold dub, clearly they did nothing to promote the show. I don't know why Dragon Ball wouldn't have succeeded if it didn't have a good timeslot and channel that knew how to get people excited (as Toonami did for better or for worse) from the get-go.

If that's the case, then thank God the Harmony Gold dub failed. I would have kept Barbara Goodson and Wendee Lee as Goku and Bulma, had Pioneer picked up Dragon Ball.

The castings were good, and I'm glad Wendee Lee came back for the Bang Zoom dub of Super although I wouldn't have liked Harmony Gold's name changes to be retained.