Ranking the original 10 arcs.

[ABED]

Fair enough about Wally.

Generally, I'm in favor of narrative focus and sticking with the theme, but I don't agree with the theme. The story of DB was never an inter-generational story and it's not about saving the world, so passing the torch to a new generation of fighters doesn't have quite the resonance as I think its proponents think it does.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

So the next generation taking over is a better idea than staying with the current generation and allowing one of the main characters to complete their arc? Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight?

I wouldn't have minded it as much but the first half of the Buu arc is them talking up Gotten and Trunks and how they will be stronger then them if they don't watch it. I guess it just bugs me as they kept on saying it so much that my original thoughts would have Gohan or Gotten beat Buu. Then again it could just be me with a certain story consistency, then again I do like how with Super they have shown more of Goku's and Vegeta's friendly rivalry which wouldn't happen if Gohan saved the day.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight?

From my POV in DB specifically, fans are fond of the idea of new characters (Next Gen) being the leads due to them being sick of seeing the same old faces (Goku & Co) for so many years.

[Kinokima]

Well when you think about it the 4 DBZ arcs had very different endings and I think they are all strong thematically.

* Saiyan arc literally has Goku, Kuririn, Gohan and Yajirobe fight to take on Vegeta. It really is a team effort. It does show he tough Vegeta is but it also shows how Goku's strength is in his friends and family. Having less power actually doesn't make you weaker as the case may be. There is also the great ending with Goku asking Kuririn to spare Vegeta's life to show him mercy.


*Freeza- In this Goku truly becomes legendary and is able to transcend himself to become a SSJ and defeat Freeza. Let's face it all subsequent transformations could never surpass this (although on a personal level Gohan going SSJ2 is my favorite) . Here it really is Goku by himself overcoming his limits.

*Cell- This of course is the one where the torch is passed on Goku sacrifices himself and his son becomes the hero. It's definitely emotionally resonant and powerful. And it leads to wonderful character development for Gohan that again started in the Saiyan arc.

*
Buu- In this arc we have 2 former enemies working together to defeat an impossible monster. Just like Gohan becoming the Hero feels emotionally resonant because of where his story started in the Saiyan arc this also felt emotionally resonant because of where Goku & Vegeta started in the Saiyan arc. Of course it's Goku and his spirit bomb who defeats Kid Buu but he wouldn't have been able to do it without Vegeta's idea and Vegeta holding off Buu as long as possible even though he was outmatched. Vegeta admitting Goku was better than him was also perfect. Of course I can't forget Satan who started off as a joke character but who was integral to the ending.

So maybe all the arcs have their own flaws but I do think Toriyama knew how to write emotionally satisfying conclusions. From Freeza on the series could have ended and I would have said that was a great ending. But Toriyama continued to deliver for me with each arc's finale even if sometimes getting to that finale could be a struggle.

I have to say as much as I am really enjoying Super none of the endings of the arcs so far have reached these emotional heights.

[sintzu]

Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight ?

Because it sounds like a good idea on paper and some stories end with that happening but that's pretty much how far it can work. Naruto's new show is doing that and the quality is in free fall with no signs of stopping.

[ABED]

A lot of ideas sound great on paper. Execution is what matters. And sure, the very end of many stories involve a passing of the torch, but only at the very end, not an entire arc.

From my POV in DB specifically, fans are fond of the idea of new characters (Next Gen) being the leads due to them being sick of seeing the same old faces (Goku & Co) for so many years.

They've seen Gohan even longer than they've seen Vegeta.

[8000 Saiyan]

So the next generation taking over is a better idea than staying with the current generation and allowing one of the main characters to complete their arc? Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight?

Because people get tired of seeing the same characters over and over again. Having those characters replaced with others is a bad move IMO.

[ABED]

So the next generation taking over is a better idea than staying with the current generation and allowing one of the main characters to complete their arc? Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight?

Because people get tired of seeing the same characters over and over again. Having those characters replaced with others is a bad move IMO.

People also like what they know.

[sintzu]

The idea of a next generation is fine if that's how the story is structured where at certain pointsof the story the main characters change. DB has been the story of Goku and his friends from day one till now so doing that will be very odd and out of place this late in the game.

[MajinMan]

Who's the next generation? Goku and Vegeta's kids? Just them? I'm glad Toriyama decided to scrap that idea and keep Goku and the OG cast as the main focus, although you can also say that Gohan is part of that cast in a weird way, like a tweener.

[VDenter]

Bassed of the Manga. From highest to lowest

1. RRA Arc
2. 21st Budokai Tenkaichi Arc
3. Saiyan Arc
4. 22nd Budokai Tenkaichi Arc
5. 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi Arc
6. The Freeza arc
7. The Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc
8 The Piccolo Arc
9. The Boo Arc
10. The Cell Arc (I will never understand the popularity of this arc in particular till the day i die. From top to bottom it was just garbage)

[Bardo117]

1. The Freeza Saga
2. The Buu Saga
3. 21st Tenkaichi Saga
4. The Piccolo Saga
5. The Saiyan Saga
6. The Cell Saga
7. The Hunt For the Dragonballs Saga
8. 22nd Tenkaichi Saga
9. 23rd Tenkaichi Saga
10. Red Ribbon Army Saga

[ekrolo2]

So the next generation taking over is a better idea than staying with the current generation and allowing one of the main characters to complete their arc? Why do so many love the idea of the next generation taking the spotlight?

Because people get tired of seeing the same characters over and over again. Having those characters replaced with others is a bad move IMO.

People also like what they know.

People are overly fond of what they know, more often then not. It's why Vegeta can't fuck off from the spot light even though his character has nowhere left to go in spite of the fact an entire multiverse creates more then enough opportunities to give Goku a rival of sorts.

[Kinokima]

Because people get tired of seeing the same characters over and over again. Having those characters replaced with others is a bad move IMO.

People also like what they know.

People are overly fond of what they know, more often then not. It's why Vegeta can't fuck off from the spot light even though his character has nowhere left to go in spite of the fact an entire multiverse creates more then enough opportunities to give Goku a rival of sorts.

Yeah you are right he can't because he is a popular "beloved" character. The story doesn't have to just be about Goku and him finding the next strongest rival either.

For me at least the fact that Vegeta is still front and center with Goku and they still have fantastic chemistry makes Super a compelling watch. It may not work for everyone and fair enough but that doesn't make it a bad narrative choice or there is nowhere left for Vegeta to go as a character.

[ekrolo2]

People also like what they know.

People are overly fond of what they know, more often then not. It's why Vegeta can't fuck off from the spot light even though his character has nowhere left to go in spite of the fact an entire multiverse creates more then enough opportunities to give Goku a rival of sorts.

Yeah you are right he can't because he is a popular "beloved" character. The story doesn't have to just be about Goku and him finding the next strongest rival either.

For me at least the fact that Vegeta is still front and center with Goku and they still have fantastic chemistry makes Super a compelling watch. It may not work for everyone and fair enough but that doesn't make it a bad narrative choice or there is nowhere left for Vegeta to go as a character.

When you've got to fluxuate Vegeta's personality between previous points of the series to keep him active, that should probably be a warning sign he should fuck off into the irrelevant category. Hell, I'm of the opinion that Super's vain attempts at making the old roster relevant have hurt the series way more then they've helped it. Giving Goku a new set of people to play off of would introduce new dynamics and wouldn't create the standard Super problem of "How the fuck are you as strong as you are?!".

[Kinokima]

People are overly fond of what they know, more often then not. It's why Vegeta can't fuck off from the spot light even though his character has nowhere left to go in spite of the fact an entire multiverse creates more then enough opportunities to give Goku a rival of sorts.

Yeah you are right he can't because he is a popular "beloved" character. The story doesn't have to just be about Goku and him finding the next strongest rival either.

For me at least the fact that Vegeta is still front and center with Goku and they still have fantastic chemistry makes Super a compelling watch. It may not work for everyone and fair enough but that doesn't make it a bad narrative choice or there is nowhere left for Vegeta to go as a character.

When you've got to fluxuate Vegeta's personality between previous points of the series to keep him active, that should probably be a warning sign he should fuck off into the irrelevant category. Hell, I'm of the opinion that Super's vain attempts at making the old roster relevant have hurt the series way more then they've helped it. Giving Goku a new set of people to play off of would introduce new dynamics and wouldn't create the standard Super problem of "How the fuck are you as strong as you are?!".

They aren't fluctuating Vegeta's personality at all. Vegeta's characterization has been one of the best thing about Super. People just continually miss subtle things about how he has changed thinking he is suddenly going back to how he was before because of random things he says. He's a great character and continues to be a great character. Just because you aren't personally interested in Vegeta (which hey that is your prerogative) doesn't mean he should become irrelevant to the story.

You obviously seem to think the only way a character can be relevant is to be stronger than Goku. Then Goku has to defeat that character rinse and repeat. But whereas yes Goku is always going to look for the next challenge that doesn't make a character like Vegeta suddenly become irrelevant in the scheme of things. I know this is a crazy idea but more than one of the main characters can fight strong opponents even if Goku may end up with the strongest. It doesn't have to all be about Goku. For one thing Vegeta hasn't truly been stronger than Goku since the Saiyan arc and yet somehow he still remained relevant and popular.


Edit:

* For example lets say Hit is Goku's next rival as many seem to think. Personally I think Hit is a great recurring character but main character no I don't see it. One he is already on good terms with Goku. And what happens when Goku suddenly becomes too strong for him. Is he still a rival character?

* Next there is Freeza. Maybe they are going to redeem Freeza. I honestly have no idea what they are going to do with him. But if they somehow redeem Freeza I also don't see him suddenly becoming an ongoing major challenge for Goku.

* Even characters like Jiren and Toppo may eventually be overcome by Goku because that is how it works.


So then we have Vegeta. This is a character who has always been chasing Goku but has never truly reached him. But yet he continues to get stronger because of Goku. Just maybe there is more to his character then to be a challenge to Goku.

[ekrolo2]

They aren't fluctuating Vegeta's personality at all. Vegeta's characterization has been one of the best thing about Super. People just continually miss subtle things about how he has changed thinking he is suddenly going back to how he was before because of random things he says. He's a great character and continues to be a great character. Just because you aren't personally interested in Vegeta (which hey that is your prerogative) doesn't mean he should become irrelevant to the story.

You obviously seem to think the only way a character can be relevant is to be stronger than Goku. Then Goku has to defeat that character rinse and repeat. But whereas yes Goku is always going to look for the next challenge that doesn't make a character like Vegeta suddenly become irrelevant in the scheme of things. I know this is a crazy idea but more than one of the main characters can fight strong opponents even if Goku may end up with the strongest. It doesn't have to all be about Goku. For one thing Vegeta hasn't truly been stronger than Goku since the Saiyan arc and yet somehow he still remained relevant and popular.


Edit:

* For example lets say Hit is Goku's next rival as many seem to think. Personally I think Hit is a great recurring character but main character no I don't see it. One he is already on good terms with Goku. And what happens when Goku suddenly becomes too strong for him. Is he still a rival character?

* Next there is Freeza. Maybe they are going to redeem Freeza. I honestly have no idea what they are going to do with him. But if they somehow redeem Freeza I also don't see him suddenly becoming an ongoing major challenge for Goku.

* Even characters like Jiren and Toppo may eventually be overcome by Goku because that is how it works.


So then we have Vegeta. This is a character who has always been chasing Goku but has never truly reached him. But yet he continues to get stronger because of Goku. Just maybe there is more to his character then to be a challenge to Goku.

Vegeta giving a shit about Goku at all any more after the Boo arc is a piss take on his whole character. GT did it right by just having him not care any more and move on entirely. Super, much like with every character, has taken him backwards then keeps spinning his wheels in place. Instead of just retiring him like Dragon Ball has done to tons of people so far but marketing demands Vegeta not go the fuck away like he should.

I also never said someone needs to be as strong as or stronger then Goku to remain relevant, they just need not feel forced as fuck tackling the same challenges as him. Hit is basically tailor made to be a new rival, Goku awakens in him a low of pure combat he's probably never felt before and you can really easy play around with that and see how their dynamic evolves from there. It's certainly less repetitive then Vegeta shouting KKKKKAKKKKKAARRRROTTTTOOOO! in perpetuity.

The only thing I'll give Vegeta is that in his forced role, he's probably the least forced option possible out of the old cast. It's certainly not as horrendous as everyone else jerking one another off screen and then reaching god level power.

[Kinokima]

They aren't fluctuating Vegeta's personality at all. Vegeta's characterization has been one of the best thing about Super. People just continually miss subtle things about how he has changed thinking he is suddenly going back to how he was before because of random things he says. He's a great character and continues to be a great character. Just because you aren't personally interested in Vegeta (which hey that is your prerogative) doesn't mean he should become irrelevant to the story.

You obviously seem to think the only way a character can be relevant is to be stronger than Goku. Then Goku has to defeat that character rinse and repeat. But whereas yes Goku is always going to look for the next challenge that doesn't make a character like Vegeta suddenly become irrelevant in the scheme of things. I know this is a crazy idea but more than one of the main characters can fight strong opponents even if Goku may end up with the strongest. It doesn't have to all be about Goku. For one thing Vegeta hasn't truly been stronger than Goku since the Saiyan arc and yet somehow he still remained relevant and popular.


Edit:

* For example lets say Hit is Goku's next rival as many seem to think. Personally I think Hit is a great recurring character but main character no I don't see it. One he is already on good terms with Goku. And what happens when Goku suddenly becomes too strong for him. Is he still a rival character?

* Next there is Freeza. Maybe they are going to redeem Freeza. I honestly have no idea what they are going to do with him. But if they somehow redeem Freeza I also don't see him suddenly becoming an ongoing major challenge for Goku.

* Even characters like Jiren and Toppo may eventually be overcome by Goku because that is how it works.


So then we have Vegeta. This is a character who has always been chasing Goku but has never truly reached him. But yet he continues to get stronger because of Goku. Just maybe there is more to his character then to be a challenge to Goku.

Vegeta giving a shit about Goku at all any more after the Boo arc is a piss take on his whole character. GT did it right by just having him not care any more and move on entirely. Super, much like with every character, has taken him backwards then keeps spinning his wheels in place. Instead of just retiring him like Dragon Ball has done to tons of people so far but marketing demands Vegeta not go the fuck away like he should.

I also never said someone needs to be as strong as or stronger then Goku to remain relevant, they just need not feel forced as fuck tackling the same challenges as him. Hit is basically tailor made to be a new rival, Goku awakens in him a low of pure combat he's probably never felt before and you can really easy play around with that and see how their dynamic evolves from there. It's certainly less repetitive then Vegeta shouting KKKKKAKKKKKAARRRROTTTTOOOO! in perpetuity.

The only thing I'll give Vegeta is that in his forced role, he's probably the least forced option possible out of the old cast. It's certainly not as horrendous as everyone else jerking one another off screen and then reaching god level power.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree if you really think Vegeta having a positive rivalry with Goku is backwards character development. Now Vegeta is humble enough to ask for help from Beerus and Whis. And Vegeta trains with Goku. It's not the same at all as it was before. Vegeta wants to continue to get stronger and Goku is his goal. It's not negative and that makes it completely different to how the relationship was before Vegeta admitted Goku was the best. As for what Vegeta says you shouldn't always take everything he says at face value. His actions say a lot more.

But the fact that you think GT did it right when Vegeta barely did anything relevant again shows that we are in total disagreement.

And no I really don't see Hit becoming Goku's eternal rival. Like I said Hit is a great character with an interesting ability. But it is also eventually going to be hard to evolve it. But personality wise he has nothing on the Goku & Vegeta relationship.

[floofychan333]

10. 22nd Tournament
9. 23rd Tournament
8. Cell
7. Saiyajins
6. Freeza
5. Buu
4. 21st Tournament
3. Red Ribbon Army
2. Pilaf
1. King Piccolo

[Bryesque]

This is a great topic, and also a really tricky one. Here are my takes, from bottom to top:

10. Red Ribbon Army

I don't know if I'd call it the "weakest" per se, and I do enjoy it a lot... But this arc goes on a long time, sidelines the supporting cast for big stretches, and ultimately kind of drags on the whole. It does add a ton of variety in characters and environments, and seeing Goku on an extended solo mission like this is a lot of fun, but something has to be last and for me this is it.

9. Buu

I'm not as hard on the Buu saga as some are, but as far as DBZ sagas go, it's the weakest for me. I still really dig it on the whole; I love Teen Gohan and the Great Saiyaman alter-ego, the growth of most characters, Buu himself is a terrific and unique "villain", and the ending of the arc is fantastic. But it does feel pretty uneven in several spots, and doesn't come together as well as it should.

8. 23rd Tenkaichi Budōkai / Piccolo Jr.

Serves as a nice epilogue to the original, pre-Z Dragon Ball series and nicely builds on its world, but feels like an addition to the King Piccolo arc more than its own whole saga. Piccolo gets a great introduction, and the tournament itself is very enjoyable, but the previous two Tenkaichi arcs outclass it on the whole, IMO.

7. 21st Tenkaichi Budōkai

A classic, and one of my personal favourites that I hate to put this low. The tournament arcs are always personal favourites, and this had so many fun, creative matches. Krillin is my favourite character, and his rivalry and growing friendship with Goku here gets me every time.

6. Androids / Cell

This one is massive, and largely excellent, but its "false starts" and shifting antagonists are pretty obvious and drag it down a bit. Gohan coming into his own, Future Trunks, Androids 16, 17, and 18, and Cell's creepy original form showcase Dragon Ball at its best. But Cell does feel like a retread of Freeza at times, and the obvious impact of editorially-insisted changes over the arc make it slightly flawed to me.

5. Pilaf

A captivating, funny, adventurous introduction to the characters and the world that hits all the right notes. It feels like a different show in a lot of ways from what the series became, but the first saga just has so much fun and charm, such wonderful characters, and such an endearing journey in its own right.

4. 22nd Tenkaichi Budōkai / Tenshinhan

The tournament arcs are consistently great, and this is the format at its best. It takes everything that was great about the "21st" arc and elevates it. The stakes are bigger, the characters are fuller, and on the whole it takes the series to the next level in a really engaging, natural way.

3. Namek / Freeza

Legitimately epic. The show at its best is about exploration and reaching new levels, and this builds well on what's been established while taking things cosmic -- a big deal. Freeza is one of the most definitive villains for a reason, and the stakes were massive. That said, the pacing has some issues, and while the story is taken to a new level, it's not entirely breaking new ground, and doesn't feel quite as fresh as what it's building on.

2. King Piccolo

Possibly overlooked compared to the "serious big bads" that came afterward, but King Piccolo's debut was a shock to the system. The series got more serious than before, the cast was brutally cut down in a way that at least felt permanent at the time, and the course of Dragon Ball changed forever.

1. Saiyans / Vegeta

The arc that kicked the doors down. The King Piccolo arc upped the stakes and grew the world of DB, but the Saiyan saga was the perfect "sequel". Taking Goku beyond death and back, introducing sci-fi elements and revealing Goku's true origin, pushing every character to new and punishing limits, and introducing (IMO) the best "villain" character of all in Vegeta... this was Peak Dragon Ball. Vegeta in particular -- a physically unassuming, brutal, prideful, seemingly unbeatable but personally flawed enemy -- ticks a lot of the same boxes as Freeza, while being a far more interesting and nuanced character in every way. This entire arc was edge-of-your-seat stuff, and IMO hasn't been topped yet.