Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
MaskedRider
Banned
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by MaskedRider » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:14 pm

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2 ... apers-leak

Manga author Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball, Dr. Slump) hit a bit of a snag this week when he and 11 other Japanese individuals were named in the Paradise Papers, a leak of millions of corporate documents related to overseas investments that purports to expose how the wealthy shelter their income from taxation.

According to sources, Toriyama had invested in an American company that specialized in real estate, specifically leveraging borrowed money to purchase 2nd hand apartments. The company came under fire in 2005 when federal tax authorities determined that their methods of accounting (which involved declaring losses through property value depreciation) didn't meet proper regulatory standards. A Supreme Court case in 2015 ruled that investors could be held liable to pay taxes on these investments.

When questioned about this wrinkle, Toriyama declined to comment, stating: "Because of my hectic schedule, I'm leaving the tax-related questions to you, and so I don't have anything more to say about it."

What does this mean for AT? Will Goku's toughest opponent yet be the IRS?

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Doctor. » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:33 pm

"Looks like I forgot to pay my taxes (laughs)"

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:02 pm

Now it makes sense why Goku is in cahoots with Freeza now!
Also this scandal will definitely tarnish the franchise, welp, time to cancel Super and halt production of new merchandise. Now we can't have a DB show with AT given so much credit so better make GT Kai and then a brand new follow up series with Toyotaro as main writer, Dragon Ball AF sounds like a good title...

User avatar
floofychan333
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by floofychan333 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 pm

I'm not impressed. Evading your taxes because you're rich and famous is pathetic and it's sad that our hero Toriyama-sensei has dropped to President Trump's level.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

User avatar
Sin
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: England

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Sin » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:33 am

How disappointing. Whilst he probably has someone else handle his finances, or at least advise him on investments, it is sad to think he would be aware of this and still go ahead with it.

Tax avoidance is truly a greedy act which re-enforces inequality and only serves to bankrupt social order.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:51 am

It's not worse than what other rich people do like America's Hollywood icons that people worship.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Fizzer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1410
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Fizzer » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:44 am

I really dislike this sort of thing, the well-off actively trying to avoid contributing to their society. Toriyama has never exactly claimed to be a moral character, though, so I can't say I'm surprised. No more surprised than if I saw "Akira Toriyama questioned over upskirt video incident".

User avatar
Sin
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: England

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Sin » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:51 am

sintzu wrote:It's not worse than what other rich people do like America's Hollywood icons that people worship.
That really doesn't justify it though. I don't want to get into a debate about it, but tax avoidance serves to increase tax burdens for middle-income and lower-income earners, it contributes to poor living conditions of the working class and middle class. Especially somewhere like Japan where the class divide is so prominent.

We are all fans of AT's work here I'm sure, but it is truly disappointing to learn that he is part of a current global issue.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:13 am

Sin wrote:That really doesn't justify it though. It is truly disappointing to learn that he is part of a current global issue.
Of course not and I really hope it's something he didn't know about. If he left it to someone he trusted then it's not out of the question that whoever took advantage of that trust and did that behind his back.

If he knew about it or even told whoever to do it then he's lost all my respect.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Gyt Kaliba
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8861
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:38 am
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:15 am

While certainly concerning if true, I for one will wait until more is known/proven before really getting too worried about it. That's one of my main issues with the court of public opinion nowadays is that far too many are treated as guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around...not that I have the first clue if Japan even operates that same way or not, though.

That and, given the type of man we know Toriyama to be (ie lazy), I could easily see him having paid someone else to handle his finances, so it may not even have been him directly that chose to do this, again if true at all I mean. We'll just have to wait and see how this pans out.
AniManga Travelogue - Currently Reviewing: Dragon Ball (Z)
Twitter
Switch Friend Code: SW-0745-6427-7791 (let's play some Dragon Ball: The Breakers!)

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:18 am

If this is true, how will it affect DB ? Would Toei cut ties with him due to his public image in Japan being ruined or at least tarnished ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Sin
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: England

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Sin » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:07 am

sintzu wrote:If this is true, how will it affect DB ? Would Toei cut ties with him due to his public image in Japan being ruined or at least tarnished ?
I doubt it, as tax avoidance usually is conducted lawfully it is just a case of what people think is morally right or wrong. There are far larger names on the Paradise Papers than AT so I doubt many will even be aware of it, unfortunately tax avoidance is so common it is hardly scandalous.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:36 am

Yeah, I doubt anyone will suffer consequences from this. The rich pay off politicians through bribes or campaign contributions (one more reason why we need to have publicly funded campaigns, just as we need to ban tipping) or threaten the politicians by moving their money overseas to avoid taxes specifically so that the laws will be written to place the burden of taxes on the middle and lower classes. Then they use media and politicians to try and convince the middle and lower classes of bullshit scams like trickle down economics or that the rich create all the jobs. This is all just malarkey they shit out to justify irrationally hording all of the world's money for themselves despite the fact that they will never actually be able to spend it. Monopolies and big businesses are basically trying to return the world to how it was several hundred years ago by establishing private monarchies through a facade of 'capitalism' (actual capitalism died when politicians began to deregulate and kill unions in the name of their god 'the free market', which they masturbate to all the time). By raising taxes, keeping wages low, keeping medical costs high through privatized health care (despite every other modern nation having much cheaper and better public systems) and keeping education mired in student loan debts so as to either take more money or prevent the masses from attaining higher education these private monarchies can keep the masses too tired, too unhealthy and too uneducated to realize what they're doing to the nation. It's supreme brilliance. Billionaires own the major media companies, so they can control the narrative to continually feed the masses propaganda while also paying off companies like YouTube and Google to silence independent media outlets that try to educate people about the shit they're getting stuck in. It's a fuckin' club and the less people they allow into it the more money there is for them to keep to themselves. The second wages go up, people can afford to work less (five days of working a week is a fuckin' scam) and have more time and money to spend on private artistic and scientific ventures that could very well become big competition for these big businesses. How do you suddenly keep millions of new competitors from appearing? You keep the middle and lower-classes stuck in perpetual wage slavery! Again, brilliant plan for conquering a nation as a dictator without actually outwardly appearing as one to the people you've conquered. You make them believe they're the ones at fault!

Toriyama Akira doesn't fit that bill of being the sort to actively be aware of this sort of thing, though, so I think his accountant probably just got greedy and hid the money to justify taking a greater cut.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Luso Saiyan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:33 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:28 pm

floofychan333 wrote:I'm not impressed. Evading your taxes because you're rich and famous is pathetic and it's sad that our hero Toriyama-sensei has dropped to President Trump's level.
Nobody evades taxes because of being rich or famous. Both rich and poor (famous or not) do it. And in this case, it wasn't him personally that evaded taxes, but the company he invested in.

As for Trump, I don't recall him evading taxes but instead take advantage of the existing law (not the same thing).

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Kunzait_83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:25 pm

As has been said already, no one really knows at this point how up on this scheme Toriyama himself actually was: whether or not he himself was fully aware of this real estate company's fraudulent tax sheltering, or if this was something known mainly to the accountant that he might've simply trusted to handle all his financial dealings for him.

If he didn't know about it, then he's fairly innocent of any wrongdoing and its his financial handlers who are to be held largely responsible (though the lesson there goes, ALWAYS be aware of what's happening with your money). If he DID know about it, then it makes him as guilty as thousands of other extravagantly wealthy 1%-ers of some fairly scumbag financial practices that have been contributing to severely harming the entire world (and untold millions if not billions of people) right now in fairly significant ways for many years now.

But even in the worst possible case scenario of the latter, it doesn't really necessarily entail that this affects people's opinion towards the guy's work. Unless you were someone who for whatever reason chose to idolize him as a human being without hardly knowing anything about him personally (in which case one would seriously have to question your judgement) none of this really casts his body of manga work in any more of a negative light than it does the work of countless other artists who have been revealed to be flawed or otherwise shitty individuals.

There isn't anything wrong with enjoying the work of H.P. Lovecraft even though he was a notoriously virulent racist, and enjoying his horror fiction is in no way the same thing as condoning his repugnant attitudes and beliefs. Same goes for the music of Michael Jackson, assuming he truly was guilty of sexually molesting children (the whole truth of which we may well never know for sure). Or the culturally significant films of Roman Polanski (who we know for 100% certainty actually DID sexually abuse a minor). Or the equally seismic work of author J.D. Salinger (another known sexual predator). Or the absurdly vast body of films produced by Harvey Weinstein. I'll likely still love The Usual Suspects as a film, even knowing what we know now about Kevin Spacey, as I'm sure will likely be the case for many other people.

With some notable exceptions (generally of the political propaganda sort), the work that an artist produces is generally a separate matter from their day to day actions in their personal lives, and being an admirer of one does not necessarily make you a supporter of the other.

Personally speaking, I find the current global financial situation is something that is of absolute paramount importance, and any wealthy individual taking part in the corroding of the world's financial stability for their own personal gain is someone whom I will always hold in the greatest of contempt. If Toriyama happens to be one of those people (again this assumes he was fully aware of what was being done with his money in the first place), then that is truly abysmal of him and I definitely would not look very kindly on him as a human being from this point forward.

But that will still remain a totally separate matter from my opinion of his work as an artist, which will likely remain exceedingly high no matter what.

And as was also mentioned earlier, until it comes out how much in on this tax sheltering setup he actually was (if it ever does), then its probably best to withhold final judgement on his character and not immediately jump to gathering up the internet lynch mob against him until more facts are out in the open.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
AgitoZ
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 1713
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by AgitoZ » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:26 pm

I think everyone in this thread needs to take a step back.

I doubt anyone here has actually gone through all of the Paradise Papers. So no one is fully informed on all of this. Also no one here knows Toriyama personally to be able to accurately judge his character. But it seems like many are jumping to conclusions based on past experiences or opinions when it comes to taxes.

To quote the article:
Crunchyroll wrote:According to sources, Toriyama had invested in an American company that specialized in real estate, specifically leveraging borrowed money to purchase 2nd hand apartments. The company came under fire in 2005 when federal tax authorities determined that their methods of accounting (which involved declaring losses through property value depreciation) didn't meet proper regulatory standards. A Supreme Court case in 2015 ruled that investors COULD be held liable to pay taxes on these investments.
Emphasis my own.

So from what I gathered from the article, Toriyama invested in an American company. Said company came under fire for not properly filing taxes and that investors COULD be held liable for it after a Supreme Court case. The Paradise Papers are supposed to expose how the wealthy avoid taxation as much as possible but the following preceding paragraph sends mixed messages. Was Toriyama held liable or not? If he was then he needs to pay those taxes. If not then I don't see the problem. But the article fails to clarify this. I believe more details and context is necessary.

Like others speculated, I'm also inclined to believe that Toriyama has someone else investing for him and I doubt he had any knowledge of all this. Toriyama doesn't quite strike as an accounting genius, but I've never met the guy.

Until more conclusive evidence comes out I'm gonna go ahead and reserve judgement. I'd advise others to do the same.
If you're not here soon... GET ON!

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Herms » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:25 am

MaskedRider wrote:When questioned about this wrinkle, Toriyama declined to comment, stating: "Because of my hectic schedule, I'm leaving the tax-related questions to you, and so I don't have anything more to say about it."
While this is one of those ambiguous Japanese sentences (「僕自身日々多忙のため、基本的に税務面等はおまかせにしており、お話しできることが本当に何もありません」), context-wise I'm fairly certainly Toriyama is saying that he leaves his taxes up to others (ie presumably his accountant), rather than to whoever asked him this question. In other words, it's the standard "my accountant handles all that stuff so I don't know anything about it" type excuse others have mentioned. It's also clarified in Japanese that he gave this response via letter, rather than in person.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

DragonBallFoodie
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
Location: Zambia, Southern Africa

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:29 pm

One should get used to celebrities having vices, then maybe scandals could be less shocking and more easily dealt with.

At least this wasn't anything shocking/serious like the Weinstein, Spacey or Allison Mack sex scandals.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.

User avatar
Blade
I Live Here
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by Blade » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:39 pm

Is it really shocking that a man as carefree and forgetful as Toriyama could end up in a bind like this?
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.

User avatar
floofychan333
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Akira Toriyama named in Paradise Papers leak

Post by floofychan333 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:14 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:One should get used to celebrities having vices, then maybe scandals could be less shocking and more easily dealt with.

At least this wasn't anything shocking/serious like the Weinstein, Spacey or Allison Mack sex scandals.
I'd lose all faith in Toriyama if he was a sexual predator, though I'm almost 100% sure somebody on this forum would try to rationalize that or completely ignore it. People in general don't like to accept certain facts, and hearing something negative about one of your idols is hard for many people to hear. Che Guevara, for example, is idolized by people all over the world whether they're Communists or not but very few people really accept that the guy on their shirt was an anti-Black racist Stalinist who killed people in order to achieve his objectives.

So far, we haven't seen denial of this yet, though with more information that may come. As far as we know a company Toriyama invested in hasn't been meeting regulatory standards in its accounting methods and has evaded taxes. Toriyama declined to comment on the matter, which can suggest that he's either shocked at what happened or he was complicit with it. We don't know which yet.
Luso Saiyan wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:I'm not impressed. Evading your taxes because you're rich and famous is pathetic and it's sad that our hero Toriyama-sensei has dropped to President Trump's level.
Nobody evades taxes because of being rich or famous. Both rich and poor (famous or not) do it. And in this case, it wasn't him personally that evaded taxes, but the company he invested in.

As for Trump, I don't recall him evading taxes but instead take advantage of the existing law (not the same thing).
What I'm saying here isn't that poor people don't evade taxes (but when they do it's usually because they can't afford to pay them, so it's more justified than the rich avoiding paying for something they can easily afford). Trump, on the other hand, found a loophole in the tax system and manipulated it so much that it's hard to justify the legality of what he did. On top of that, he admitted to not paying taxes as a way of attacking his opponent, which is laughable. While the system that allows what Trump did obviously needs to be reformed so that ceases to occur, it doesn't excuse the fact that Trump did something appalling.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

Post Reply