DB's ending

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DB's ending

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:02 pm

The answer I'm looking for is specific. If DB does ever end, what do you think the ending WILL be? It's not about what you want it to be, but what do you think is an ending in keeping with DB and it's characters? I don't know enough about the Wuxia genre and its tropes to make a guess. Does the story end with Goku achieving his goal of being the best or is it a goal that's forever out of reach? What possible ending at this point would give the story shape and meaning and fits DB, and not what we think it should be based on our values?
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Re: DB's ending

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:23 pm

GT, Dragon Ball is about Gokus story. The original manga begins Goku and the Dragonballs and it should close with them as well in an arc that makes the journey relevant from the beginning and each arc of the story carry weight.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by Vijay » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:50 pm

DB Anime's ending felt very natural, despite its final arc (Chichi's Wedding suit) was set-up for 5 year time skip

Z's ending felt "huh". Cuz one hand, it felt like AT wanted to wrap up story real fast. Nother hand, it looked like Toriyama planned Uub's character all along. If not both, looked like TOEI pressured AT given GT's post-production was halfway by the time Manga completed (Manga ended 1995, but GT started Jan 1996)

GT's ending despite being glorified, also felt super tacked-on & calculated. As if many ideas, thoughts, storyboarders workes their asses off for the final scenes of GT & dats it. Wish they showed at least 50% of their efforr throughout GT

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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:29 am

1- It could end with Goku being the strongest in the multiverse which has been his goal since day 1, to be the strongest.

2- It could end with him passing the tourch to the "next generation" of fighters which is what Roshi did with him.

3- It could end like GT where Goku's story gets a definitive end.

4- We could get a mixture of the 3 above.

5- Had Battle Of Gods been the story's ending that also would've made sense as Goku not being able to defeat Beerus goes back to what Roshi told him and Krillin back when they were training for the 21st Tenkaichi, there's always someone else stronger out there.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:20 am

I am not sure GT gave Goku a "definitive end", what exactly was it then? They didn't tell us anything, tried to make it poignant and failed. Kanzenshuu has an entire page dedicated to analysing the GT ending and what exactly happened and there isn't a concrete conclusion to be had. It's not definitive in the least, hell EoZ was more "definitive" since we knew exactly what was going on.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:47 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I am not sure GT gave Goku a "definitive end", what exactly was it then? They didn't tell us anything.
Definitive as in we knew Goku's story was truly over that time. There was no lose ends, no future plot points set up or anything of the sort. Goku left (where and how is unknown) and that was it. The writers said in an interview that they wanted it to end like that from the start so although GT most likely got cut short, at least it ended the way they wanted it to.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:28 am

GT's ending did tell us something - that Goku's time was over. He was gone. Yes, it's vague where he went, but the implications were clear. I don't know why so many are confused.

Anyway, this thread isn't about analyzing the actual endings for any of the shows. It's about predicting what we think DB's ending MIGHT BE.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:33 am

sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I am not sure GT gave Goku a "definitive end", what exactly was it then? They didn't tell us anything.
Definitive as in we knew Goku's story was truly over that time. There was no lose ends, no future plot points set up or anything of the sort. Goku left (where and how is unknown) and that was it. The writers said in an interview that they wanted it to end like that from the start so although GT most likely got cut short, at least it ended the way they wanted it to.
We didn't know it was over though, Goku leaving with Shenron was no different to him leaving for Uub. Why was he leaving with Shenron what does Piccolo, Vegeta and Roshi know that we as the audience don't? Why was Goku absorbing the Dragon Balls. The ending is completely unresolved. Then all of a sudden Goku is grown up saying we'll see each other soon or whatever and the (dub) narrator saying if there is evil Goku will step out the shadows again. So his time was not over then.

GT ending is unresolved and unsatisfying.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by TheMikado » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:35 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I am not sure GT gave Goku a "definitive end", what exactly was it then? They didn't tell us anything, tried to make it poignant and failed. Kanzenshuu has an entire page dedicated to analysing the GT ending and what exactly happened and there isn't a concrete conclusion to be had. It's not definitive in the least, hell EoZ was more "definitive" since we knew exactly what was going on.
The ending was multi purpose. The viewer was supposed to wonder if Goku was actual dead, living as a guardian spirit, or something else. Basically the point was to emphasize Goku was always watching over the people and potentially come back if needed. It was basically a messiah effect where Goku has to “die” for his sins of using the Dragonballs and where it was designed to give an “ending” Goku could be doing this until the end of time as he had been doing it for 100 years. Basically it thematically ties the entire series together and ends it.

Anyway as I stated the best ending is something that ties Gokus journey together into something meaningful and permanent or at least have wide reaching implications. I.e the removal of Zeno or the GoDs.
The EoZ ending was the worst...
Goku runs off to train this guy with huge potential. For how long? Then what after? What if a threat never comes? Goku does? Does another guy with huge power pop up or is this it?

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Re: DB's ending

Post by TheMikado » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:38 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I am not sure GT gave Goku a "definitive end", what exactly was it then? They didn't tell us anything.
Definitive as in we knew Goku's story was truly over that time. There was no lose ends, no future plot points set up or anything of the sort. Goku left (where and how is unknown) and that was it. The writers said in an interview that they wanted it to end like that from the start so although GT most likely got cut short, at least it ended the way they wanted it to.
We didn't know it was over though, Goku leaving with Shenron was no different to him leaving for Uub. Why was he leaving with Shenron what does Piccolo, Vegeta and Roshi know that we as the audience don't? Why was Goku absorbing the Dragon Balls. The ending is completely unresolved. Then all of a sudden Goku is grown up saying we'll see each other soon or whatever and the (dub) narrator saying if there is evil Goku will step out the shadows again. So his time was not over then.

GT ending is unresolved and unsatisfying.
There’s nothing unresolved about it. Goku is doing the job he will be doing for the rest of eternity. That’s the end. Where ever he is whatever he is doing, he will be doing until the end of time. That’s his personal afterlife.
The comparison to EoZ makes no sense because Goku could come back in 6 months and then what? Everyone we know is still sitting around alive and bored.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:39 am

Hopefully it will be after the 1,006,755,009th ToP, when the Zenos decide it's so boring that they just want to destroy everything and start creating new Universes.
That's in line with Zeno's character at least and they can end it whenever they want.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:52 am

I think it will be like that classic shonen ending. Goku becomes the strongest but it is only the start of a new adventure like GT where Goku goes off somewhere, leaving everyone behind.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:35 am

TheMikado wrote:There’s nothing unresolved about it. Goku is doing the job he will be doing for the rest of eternity. That’s the end. Where ever he is whatever he is doing, he will be doing until the end of time. That’s his personal afterlife.
That kind of fits Goku. I just don't see him retiring and dying peacefully in his sleep so him being some entity that fights for eternaty and watching over everyone is more fitting.
ABED wrote:This thread is about predicting what we think DB's ending MIGHT BE.
DB will most likely continue forever and be like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh but if this revival didn't happen then GT's ending is how it would end as it was the official ending for nearly 20 years. No one has to like GT to acknowledge that it closed the door on Goku's story, something the manga didn't do.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:43 am

Pokémon isn't based in character and story. It's based on a premise that can go on infinitely. DB is a story about a character that we see age over time.

I do think the manga ended the story. All of the plot threads and character arcs were concluded. It's an open ending, and arguably an unsatisfying one, but still an ending.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:51 am

ABED wrote:Pokémon isn't based in character and story. It's based on a premise that can go on infinitely.

I do think the manga ended the story. All of the plot threads and character arcs were concluded. It's an open ending, and arguably an unsatisfying one, but still an ending.
Do you really think all these companies involved are going to let millions of $$$ slip away because ending it is the "right" thing to do ? DB, like star wars and comics will go on forever or as long as it makes $$$. Naruto's entire story was about him saving his friend and becoming Hokage which he did in the end but because of how big the franchise was, they're continuing it even though it has nowhere to go. So if a story like that can continue, then surely DB will.

It's an ending for sure but I was talking more in lines of something that completely closes the doors on things. the manga's left the door open for future stories involving the cast which is how GT happened. GT's ending on the other hand didn't as everyone minus pan was dead.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:05 am

Perhaps but I've seen plenty of profitable franchises and stories end. I can't speak to Naruto, but stories can go beyond the intended goal. However, they need to end.

Closing the door on a story doesn't mean they have to die or retire, etc.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by TheMikado » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:09 am

sintzu wrote:
TheMikado wrote:There’s nothing unresolved about it. Goku is doing the job he will be doing for the rest of eternity. That’s the end. Where ever he is whatever he is doing, he will be doing until the end of time. That’s his personal afterlife.
That kind of fits Goku. I just don't see him retiring and dying peacefully in his sleep so him being some entity that fights for eternaty and watching over everyone is more fitting.
ABED wrote:This thread is about predicting what we think DB's ending MIGHT BE.
DB will most likely continue forever and be like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh but if this revival didn't happen then GT's ending is how it would end as it was the official ending for nearly 20 years. No one has to like GT to acknowledge that it closed the door on Goku's story, something the manga didn't do.
I think it’s interesting they could also work the GT ending to where he is either in training or becomes a God of Destruction who actually does his job competently but destroying threats to the universe and his fight against Omega qualified him for that. I’m not saying they should but the way they left it allows Goku to easily go that route.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 am

sintzu wrote:Do you really think all these companies involved are going to let millions of $$$ slip away because ending it is the "right" thing to do ? DB, like star wars and comics will go on forever or as long as it makes $$$. Naruto's entire story was about him saving his friend and becoming Hokage which he did in the end but because of how big the franchise was, they're continuing it even though it has nowhere to go. So if a story like that can continue, then surely DB will.
People seem to take completely for granted the fact that Dragon Ball was well and truly over with and "dead" for the better part of almost 20 fucking years. It being revived to continue on is still an EXTREMELY recent, and by NO means expected, development.

Its entirely possible that DB may be allowed from this point forward to go on and on endlessly as a "zombie franchise" (and I have to question in utter bafflement why it is that so many fans seem to so often apparently take the corporate side in this and actively cheer this on: you're not exactly raking in the cash the way that Toei and their shareholders will be, all you'll be getting out of the bargain is a substandard, shitty product) but until just the last couple of years, that was in NO way any sort of an absolute given that anyone took as a "well, duh" sort of conventional wisdom.

For far longer than most present Dragon Ball fans have even heard of the series (hell in plenty of cases for far longer than they've even been alive) Dragon Ball was long-since done and over with, seemingly for good. Yet time after time, I see these posts that act like Dragon Ball's continuation was an expected sort of inevitability that everyone was naturally anticipating, like the transition from the end of Z or GT to Super was perfectly seamless and happened after only a relatively short or otherwise negligible pause in activity.

When something is done and over with for nearly 20 fucking years, pretty much NO ONE simply takes for granted so readily that that something is just guaranteed to one day come back out of the blue as if no time has passed at all. I can only conclude that this weird mindset is a byproduct of how most U.S. DB fans still don't seem to innately grasp just how much vastly, tremendously OLDER this series actually is than their own personal perspective and experience with it (from its FUNimation dub and onward) tells them it is.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:55 am

On one hand, I absolutely agree with you: Dragon Ball was done with, and there was no reason to expect anything new, even in the wake as something as recent as the 2008 JSAT special (which, fucking hell man, is having its 10th anniversary next year), particularly with the way Toriyama had been speaking about his experience with the series and future goals/plans.

On the other hand, Toei had been literally explaining to their shareholders for years even longer than that how they were planning on and looking for ways to exploit the series and indoctrinate a younger base of fans. It wasn't a question of "if"; it was a question of "when". We were just waiting for them to figure out how to do it. Bandai cracked that nut with Heroes, and Toei/Shueisha merely followed suit.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:24 am

ABED wrote:I've seen plenty of profitable franchises and stories end.

I can't speak to Naruto, but stories can go beyond the intended goal. However, they need to end.
Of course DB will always be profitable but nowhere near when there're new home releases and new character based merchandise coming out. If it would be then they wouldn't bother putting in all the effort, money & time to create new content to begin with.

They should end where they were supposed to. If they're being continued beyond that point then there's clearly no intention to end them. What I LOVE about manga is that it's the story of one person and has a clear beginning and ending. Continuing them beyond that point with new creatores takes that special thing away from it.
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