How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

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How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:49 am

Most of his backstory was not seen until much later. His backstory is mostly set up on Dragon Ball which is ICKY to most North American fans to boot.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:57 am

- He has a cool design
- He's the strongest character who isn't a Saiyan
- He stands out
- Even without much of his history, his arc with Gohan in the Saiyan arc compelling

What makes you think his story in icky to NA fans? What's so different about them from JPN fans? People like a redemption arc. See Vegeta.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Michsi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:19 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Most of his backstory was not seen until much later. His backstory is mostly set up on Dragon Ball which is ICKY to most North American fans to boot.

Icky? You mean the birth via mouth egg thing? Or King Piccolo?

Either way, I don't know how popular Piccolo is in NA, though the more the better.

There are a lot of things that work in his favor:

- as already mentioned, he has a really cool character design. So cool, that his look has not altered in the slightest since his introduction. (barring that piece a cloth that was hanging from his turban in his very first appearance as an adult)
- evil guy turned ally turned good - these are always popular
- really cool fights and really cool move set/ techniques
- kept up with the saiyans longer than most
- strong silent type
- his relationship with Gohan - big scary guy has a soft spot for cute kid that also happens to be his enemy's son
- Toshio Furukaw- ah wait sorry, North America, right - Chris Sabat/ Scott McNeil - I haven't followed the English release that much but from what I've seen, with the exception of some dubious word choices, he's been voiced from decently to good.
- that majestic cape

To name a few.

Damn, do I ever hope they'd throw him a decent bone in Super. I've started to think Bandai Namco likes him more than Toei.
Last edited by Michsi on Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 am

Piccolo kills both the main protagonist and main antagonist in the first five episodes (four in the original edited dub), with a proper-noun-named, flashy, special attack (which he actually uses twice in that span of episodes).

Scott McNeil was already an extremely well-liked and recognized voice actor, and nailed the role from the start.

He has a distinctive character design (including its color scheme) among a cast of primarily spiky-haired human(ish) characters.

The majority of Piccolo's character growth is complete in the span of episodes that constantly re-ran on television more than any others (both in syndication and on cable).

I'm really struggling to see how it's not obvious how Piccolo could (and did) become a popular character among fans. Even as someone who champions the need to read/watch the "first" (part of the) series in order to truly understand and grasp these characters, I'm not naive to the fact that there's enough in Z alone for people to start their journey as super-fans.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Michsi wrote:Icky? You mean the birth via mouth egg thing? Or King Piccolo?
I think by icky he meant that because he originate from the OG Dragon Ball content you'd think he'd be shunned like Kid Goku and other aspects of that era.

(for the record I disagree with that assessment personally because of the reasons stated above)

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by TheBigBoy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:10 pm

He's cool as hell

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:59 pm

VegettoEX pretty much nailed it.

But, here's why Piccolo is my favourite character:
First major character death in the series introduces him, his lackey nearly kills Goku, then the other lackeys kill all the martial artists in the world, and then Piccolo kills Chiaotzu, Roshi, and Shen Long, then takes over the world, and only then is Goku able to defeat him... But only for a little while, because he comes back even cooler and stronger, for the express purpose of killing Goku, which he eventually does, but then has to train Gohan and himself, otherwise the earth will be a giant rock where stuff used to live. Then, he has his amazing character arc over the course of 28 episodes(21 in Saban's version), during which he becomes Gohan's second dad, and remains a total badass even when he's completely outstripped in power in the Boo arc, aswell as GT and Super.

So, Piccolo is the best original series villain, one of the best main characters in Z, he's at the centre of one of the most emotional moments in GT, and he's still doing really neat stuff in Super.

Piccolo is awesome.

Of course, speaking as a Brit who's always been more of an original series fan... I guess my opinion isn't super-relevant here. :mrgreen:
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by floofychan333 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:28 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Michsi wrote:Icky? You mean the birth via mouth egg thing? Or King Piccolo?
I think by icky he meant that because he originate from the OG Dragon Ball content you'd think he'd be shunned like Kid Goku and other aspects of that era.

(for the record I disagree with that assessment personally because of the reasons stated above)
Yeah, it's basically that, I imagine. Since we got the OGDB after DBZ it didn't play the building up/introduction role for most people here that it played in Japan.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm

Kudos to Kbabz and Floofychan for understanding my intent! As one kanzenshuu member put it, most see OG Dragon Ball as some freaky Muppet Babies spinoff that's not really needed to understand Dragon Ball.

I'm glad for everyone's answers too!
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Cipher » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:06 am

I don't think he became so fondly viewed for his arc from villain to hero, but because he's Gohan's green daddy.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Vijay » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:18 am

Dude's weirdo

I still wonder how dafuq dude even escaped from memes directed at his weird alien design, a stark contrast to other regular human characters like Gohan or Krillin. Hell, even Nappa/Veggie built-up to be EVIL SAIYAN ALIENS looked "humane" while our Z-gang has weird, mean green freak

I guess most of the goodwill Piccolo has earned was due to Gohan's attachment to this character. Also, his epic sacrifice.

But most importantly. God. His lines.

Funi Dub during its heydays could've been a behemoth butchering scripts & adding unnecessarry dialogues. But Piccolo always gets most reasonable & logical lines.

While Goku either being dead/training, Piccolo took Leader-in-Command in Saiyan & Android Arc which along with his smart lines & deep voice makes Piccolo somewhat "distinct"

Which translates into popularity I guess

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:21 am

Cipher wrote:I don't think he became so fondly viewed for his arc from villain to hero, but because he's Gohan's green daddy.
I always look forward to seeing Cipher's posts! So awesome.

BTW Who was that cute blonde girl from your old avi? I loved that pic!
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Michsi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:10 am

floofychan333 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
Michsi wrote:Icky? You mean the birth via mouth egg thing? Or King Piccolo?
I think by icky he meant that because he originate from the OG Dragon Ball content you'd think he'd be shunned like Kid Goku and other aspects of that era.

(for the record I disagree with that assessment personally because of the reasons stated above)
Yeah, it's basically that, I imagine. Since we got the OGDB after DBZ it didn't play the building up/introduction role for most people here that it played in Japan.
Which is a shame, because the 23rd TB arc is one the best of the entire franchise, specifically their fight. Though granted, it doesn't paint in the best of lights, what with him looking like a maniacal killer as opposed to DBZ where he was always depicted as a more level-headed, cool person. It might've been a little off-putting for some.
Personally, it made the heel-face turn all the more meaningful knowing his history and what he was like before Radditz' arrival, but to each his own.
Vijay wrote:Dude's weirdo

I still wonder how dafuq dude even escaped from memes directed at his weird alien design, a stark contrast to other regular human characters like Gohan or Krillin. Hell, even Nappa/Veggie built-up to be EVIL SAIYAN ALIENS looked "humane" while our Z-gang has weird, mean green freak
There's no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of people out there that are put off by his design, but I'd actually argue that his look is one the factors that appealed to most fans. Specifically when it comes to NA viewers. If memory serves, the early 90's in particular were filled with cartoons that had in-human looking characters in the lead, so kids were used to it. From anthropomorphic characters like Ninja Turtles, Swat Cats, Biker Mice from Mars to monster type characters like in Gargoyles. I'd actually say that outlandish designs were more prevalent in western cartoons than in anime, but don't quote me on that.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:16 am

For me it is because

He has a great design and how can you not like it when he takes his weighy off
Smart character with a personality that fits very well into a show like Dragon Ball.
Has a great moveset that is very varied.
He is very calm unlike every other character.
Involved in great fights.

I hate the Piccolo and Gohan connection and Piccolo would have turned good without it anyway as he was already working with the others becasue of Radiz, Nappa and Vegeta.

Toriyama has provided very few reasons for fans to dislike him compared to other characters and that helps out a lot.
Michsi wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dude's weirdo

I still wonder how dafuq dude even escaped from memes directed at his weird alien design, a stark contrast to other regular human characters like Gohan or Krillin. Hell, even Nappa/Veggie built-up to be EVIL SAIYAN ALIENS looked "humane" while our Z-gang has weird, mean green freak
There's no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of people out there that are put off by his design, but I'd actually argue that his look is one the factors that appealed to most fans. Specifically when it comes to NA viewers. If memory serves, the early 90's in particular were filled with cartoons that had in-human looking characters in the lead, so kids were used to it. From anthropomorphic characters like Ninja Turtles, Swat Cats, Biker Mice from Mars to monster type characters like in Gargoyles. I'd actually say that outlandish designs were more prevalent in western cartoons than in anime, but don't quote me on that.
I have literally never heard someone say that dislike Piccolo because of his design. Non earthling like character designs in general are usually liked In Dragon Ball I think. Fans usually moan ehen they first see them but usually really like them after seeing them for awhile.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:20 am

Because of his cool design, his personality, he's the strongest non-Saiyan character, he managed to kill Raditz and Goku and Scott McNeil voicing him.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Michsi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:11 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dude's weirdo

I still wonder how dafuq dude even escaped from memes directed at his weird alien design, a stark contrast to other regular human characters like Gohan or Krillin. Hell, even Nappa/Veggie built-up to be EVIL SAIYAN ALIENS looked "humane" while our Z-gang has weird, mean green freak
There's no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of people out there that are put off by his design, but I'd actually argue that his look is one the factors that appealed to most fans. Specifically when it comes to NA viewers. If memory serves, the early 90's in particular were filled with cartoons that had in-human looking characters in the lead, so kids were used to it. From anthropomorphic characters like Ninja Turtles, Swat Cats, Biker Mice from Mars to monster type characters like in Gargoyles. I'd actually say that outlandish designs were more prevalent in western cartoons than in anime, but don't quote me on that.
I have literally never heard someone say that dislike Piccolo because of his design. Non earthling like character designs in general are usually liked In Dragon Ball I think. Fans usually moan ehen they first see them but usually really like them after seeing them for awhile.
I've been in this fandom for a loooong time and I have come across a couple of "ewwwwww"s directed at him. I supposed what some find interesting about his design is just too weird for others , but as I said, to each his own.

You might hate the connection between him and Gohan but that is a major factor in what made him so loved in Japan, and everywhere else in general. And if it weren't for that, he would've been depicted as this distant ally that pops up only once in a while like Tenshinhan, rather than the close friend of the Sons he is now. It's the same with Vegeta- he needed the connection with Bulma to help attach him to the group.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:34 am

Michsi wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Michsi wrote:


There's no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of people out there that are put off by his design, but I'd actually argue that his look is one the factors that appealed to most fans. Specifically when it comes to NA viewers. If memory serves, the early 90's in particular were filled with cartoons that had in-human looking characters in the lead, so kids were used to it. From anthropomorphic characters like Ninja Turtles, Swat Cats, Biker Mice from Mars to monster type characters like in Gargoyles. I'd actually say that outlandish designs were more prevalent in western cartoons than in anime, but don't quote me on that.
I have literally never heard someone say that dislike Piccolo because of his design. Non earthling like character designs in general are usually liked In Dragon Ball I think. Fans usually moan ehen they first see them but usually really like them after seeing them for awhile.
I've been in this fandom for a loooong time and I have come across a couple of "ewwwwww"s directed at him. I supposed what some find interesting about his design is just too weird for others , but as I said, to each his own.

You might hate the connection between him and Gohan but that is a major factor in what made him so loved in Japan, and everywhere else in general. And if it weren't for that, he would've been depicted as this distant ally that pops up only once in a while like Tenshinhan, rather than the close friend of the Sons he is now. It's the same with Vegeta- he needed the connection with Bulma to help attach him to the group.
Piccolo had the attachment to Goku already be doesn't meed Gohan to be apart of the group or be in tbe action and Vegeta does not need Bulma as he would also want to be where the action is.Piccolo's connection with Gohan is exaggerated because of Toei. Toriyama treats it completely differently. What did Gohan and Piccolo ever do together after the Saiyan arc?

If it was so liked then people then why are people moaning about them always being together and not fighting seperately in the tournament. This connection damages both characters now and was only needed in the Saiyan arc.

We know they get on with each other just like how all the characters get and Toei need to stop exageratting and I just hope that someone new comes in to Toei and changes the way Piccolo and Gohan act.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:49 am

Toriyama treats it completely differently. What did Gohan and Piccolo ever do together after the Saiyan arc?
Not completely different. The only difference is the amount of time spent with them together, but not the nature of the relationship. Piccolo wanted to protect Gohan from Freeza, and for Gohan's part, he went to Namek in order to bring back Piccolo. Piccolo and Gohan spent three years training together for the Cyborgs. It's clear even in the manga that Piccolo sees Gohan as a son or nephew.

How does this connection in any way damage either character?
was only needed in the Saiyan arc.
Given how close they were in that arc, it would be awful to not maintain that relationship going forward.
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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:11 am

ABED wrote:
Toriyama treats it completely differently. What did Gohan and Piccolo ever do together after the Saiyan arc?
Not completely different. The only difference is the amount of time spent with them together, but not the nature of the relationship. Piccolo wanted to protect Gohan from Freeza, and for Gohan's part, he went to Namek in order to bring back Piccolo. Piccolo and Gohan spent three years training together for the Cyborgs. It's clear even in the manga that Piccolo sees Gohan as a son or nephew.

How does this connection in any way damage either character?
was only needed in the Saiyan arc.
Given how close they were in that arc, it would be awful to not maintain that relationship going forward.
Just look at the majority of super for how the connection is bad. Toei can't seperate them for some reason which did not happen before.

The relationship can be maintained but how it was portrayed in Z. Toei just exaggerate and force it.

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Re: How did Piccolo become such a popular character in North America?

Post by Michsi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:16 am

namekiansaiyan wrote: Piccolo had the attachment to Goku already be doesn't meed Gohan to be apart of the group or be in tbe action and Vegeta does not need Bulma as he would also want to be where the action is.Piccolo's connection with Gohan is exaggerated because of Toei. Toriyama treats it completely differently. What did Gohan and Piccolo ever do together after the Saiyan arc?
Well, Toriyama seems to disagree, and I think he even mentioned in an interview that it's a nice thing to see happen (specifically related to the Piccolo Gohan relationship)
As for what did they do together- Gohan specifically asks to come visit him after the Cell Saga, and it obviously made Piccolo happy. Piccolo destroys cameras all over the tournament ground specifically to help Gohan keep his identity a secret even though he himself found the whole Saiyaman gig ridiculous. Goten knows Piccolo well, which implies Piccolo meets them fairly regularly. Basically they are close, even in the manga.
The manga doesn't have enough room to spare for too many character related moments outside of fighting, so you don't see them as often as in the anime which has more time to fill. You wouldn't be able to really tell that Goku and Krillin are supposed to be best friends if you only read the manga after the Piccolo arc. Yes, Toei exaggerates, but it's because their relationship is really liked.
namekiansaiyan wrote: If it was so liked then people then why are people moaning about them always being together and not fighting seperately in the tournament. This connection damages both characters now and was only needed in the Saiyan arc.
It's not the connection, it's the execution. I love the relationship between Gohan and Piccolo, and I still hated what they did in the ROF arc and episode 106. Poor story ideas revolving around them has nothing to do with the relationship itself. They are using the popularity of their bond as an excuse to build false drama.
namekiansaiyan wrote:We know they get on with each other just like how all the characters get and Toei need to stop exageratting and I just hope that someone new comes in to Toei and changes the way Piccolo and Gohan act.
I don't want to change how Piccolo and Gohan act around each other, I just want Piccolo to be given something else to do. Well, he did get a fight in the U6 tournament arc and look how that turned out - this is proof that the less than stellar treatment of his character has nothing to do with Gohan.

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