Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by shadowmaria » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:04 pm

Grimlock wrote:
shadowmaria wrote:Vegeta didn't watch Gotenks in the after life.
Yes, he saw it.
Ah yes, of course! I forgot about that scene. Thanks for the correction

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by lancerman » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:54 pm

ABED wrote:
lancerman wrote:
ABED wrote:How? He looks nothing like Vegeta.
Because it was Vegeta. It was Baby playing Prince Vegeta on planet Vegeta, with Vegeta's wife, using most of Vegeta's attacks and using Vegeta's Saiyan traits to fight Vegeta's rival. I mean it's not like SSJ4 Goku looked a hell of a lot like Goku either.

Did you notice that Baby Vegeta's final form looked like a "nu" version of Vegeta's armor from the original Saiyan saga fight? One piece blue/navy blue suit, white chest section, yellow shoulder armor, big gloves and boots, red techy looking strips going down by the eyes that give off a similar impression to scouters. There's definitley an attempt to go for the nostalgia there, even if it has a new twist and it's really Baby.
Image
No, it wasn't. He wasn't Vegeta. he wasn't playing anyone. You are verifiably wrong. He wasn't playing Vegeta. He was Baby (he called himself Baby, his followers called him Baby, and he speaks using HIS voice, not Vegeta's) who was using Vegeta's body that looked so little like Vegeta. SS4 Goku looks more like Goku than Baby looked like Vegeta. He was a parasite, so while he used Vegeta's abilities, he also had his own, like the Revenge Death Ball. He wasn't fighting Goku for the same reasons Vegeta did.

I think I see what you're talking about. His hair is spikey - they look exactly alike.
If you can't see that he he has a futuristic looking version of the classic Vegeta uniform I don't know what to tell you. And no SSJ4 looks no more like Goku than that.

Anyways it's not a coincidence that the first major battle of GT was the nu version of Goku vs the nu version of Vegeta even if it was a villain controlling Vegeta. It was still Vegeta's body. It wasn't done for no reason.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by jpdbzrulz4sure » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:23 am

I don't recall a time in which I particularly hated GT, and I have said in the past that I like some of the ideas it explored, as well as the theme songs and BGM.

With that said though, I really don't think I'll be rewatching it anytime soon. :P
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Kokonoe » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:23 am

Cetra wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:I'll admit that I still do to this day. It simply didn't live up to the previous series and repeated things that shouldn't have been like Vegeta being the enemy, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, and at times it really does feel fanfictiony and embarrassing. The major plot points for the series don't add up regarding the Dragon Balls and are kinda just forced into having a reason to continue the plot. Battle of the Gods does something similar in a different way by introducing another hierarchy of gods that wouldn't have been a mystery given the circumstances of Z, but is kinda forced just like GT's plot to make more content.

And...I guess it's fine to a degree because this is the price of "more", but I feel like the show is just rather incomplete like some of the Movies tend to be and honestly works better in the journeying episodes than it did in a lot of the serious moments.
Aren't we glad that Vegeta is not just the enemy but his body is used as a host.

Just like Zamasu does with the only difference of exchanging bodies.

Or just like Piccolo is still just some tool for the plot that is "somewhat" used instead of something that seems really and absolutely necessary. At least he did not have a really unnecessary death ... wait.

You know what I am saying with this. It is not some very fair treatment.
I'm aware it's not literally Vegeta, but the situation itself played on a somewhat similar situation with Babidi's mind control over Vegeta. The circumstances are different, but I just wish Vegeta wasn't the catalyst for this whole ordeal. I'm also not the biggest Goku Black fan at the same time.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by lancerman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:16 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Cetra wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:I'll admit that I still do to this day. It simply didn't live up to the previous series and repeated things that shouldn't have been like Vegeta being the enemy, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, and at times it really does feel fanfictiony and embarrassing. The major plot points for the series don't add up regarding the Dragon Balls and are kinda just forced into having a reason to continue the plot. Battle of the Gods does something similar in a different way by introducing another hierarchy of gods that wouldn't have been a mystery given the circumstances of Z, but is kinda forced just like GT's plot to make more content.

And...I guess it's fine to a degree because this is the price of "more", but I feel like the show is just rather incomplete like some of the Movies tend to be and honestly works better in the journeying episodes than it did in a lot of the serious moments.
Aren't we glad that Vegeta is not just the enemy but his body is used as a host.

Just like Zamasu does with the only difference of exchanging bodies.

Or just like Piccolo is still just some tool for the plot that is "somewhat" used instead of something that seems really and absolutely necessary. At least he did not have a really unnecessary death ... wait.

You know what I am saying with this. It is not some very fair treatment.
I'm aware it's not literally Vegeta, but the situation itself played on a somewhat similar situation with Babidi's mind control over Vegeta. The circumstances are different, but I just wish Vegeta wasn't the catalyst for this whole ordeal. I'm also not the biggest Goku Black fan at the same time.
This is exactly what I mean. Everyone realizes it isn't really Vegeta. But isn't it a bit suspect that the final battle of the first major big bad arc of GT is Goku in a new form vs a guy morphing Vegeta's body into a new form.Kind of like nu Goku vs nu Vegeta. It's the same concept as Goku Black. It's not really Goku. But there's a reason why he's using Goku's body to give the heroes a reaction and not someone else's. Because it's there way of having an "evil" Goku.

It's not Goku vs Baby in his adult body form that we see at the tail end. It's Goku vs Baby inside of Vegeta's body who is essentially usurping the role of Vegeta being the ruler of planet Vegeta and having Vegeta's wife by his side. I mean he's even using Vegeta's attacks. It could have very easily been Gohan, who theoretically was supposed to be stronger. It could have been Goten. Could have been Piccolo. Could have been anyone. But it was Vegeta.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:36 am

It wasn't done for no reason.
Yes, dramatic tension, not nostalgia.

And in SS4 Goku, you can still see Goku's face.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by lancerman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:42 am

ABED wrote:
It wasn't done for no reason.
Yes, dramatic tension, not nostalgia.

And in SS4 Goku, you can still see Goku's face.
Compare any image of Goku's face in Z to what you see GT in SSJ4. It's not the same face.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:57 am

lancerman wrote:
ABED wrote:
It wasn't done for no reason.
Yes, dramatic tension, not nostalgia.

And in SS4 Goku, you can still see Goku's face.
Compare any image of Goku's face in Z to what you see GT in SSJ4. It's not the same face.
It's similar. It's certainly closer to Goku than Baby-Vegeta was to Vegeta. The only thing that's similar is the armor looking stuff, but it still doesn't look anything like Vegeta.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Asura » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:36 pm

I rewatched it a couple months ago and it's really quite decent. I feel like with Super now being a thing and being the "canon" timeline to many people, that people can now watch GT without that feeling of "Fuck GT I can't believe this is what canonically happens after the Buu Saga" and instead just watch it as a spin off show.

It does a lot of things poorly, but does a lot of things really well too. I think my favorite thing that they did perfectly on was Goku's character. He feels more mature, and feels like he's evolved from someone whose selfish and just cares about fighting people to instead becoming somewhat of a family man who just wants to look out for his granddaughter. I remember there was a line in the Shadow Dragon saga where Pan was in danger and SSJ4 Goku got pissed off, saying that Pan was the most important thing in the world that he cared about. I feel like that's true evolution of the character whereas Super hasn't really done much of anything to evolve Goku as a character.

People accuse GT of being a soulless cash-in following the end of the Z anime but it's got a lot of soul and I think the people behind GT were actually really passionate about it, even if it didn't come out the way they wanted it to.

The art is so good and so nostalgic, and the sound track too. In that sense it feels like a true sequel to Z over Super. GT does not deserve the hate it gets and I feel like there's still that peer pressure stigma of hating GT because "everyone else hates it"

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:52 pm

I'm not sure I would say that's a natural progression for Goku as much as Toei's version always being more classically heroic than Toriyama's vision of the world and his characters.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Basaku » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:00 pm

It feels more like a sequel to DB rather DBZ, that's one of the main issues. The series evolved gradually throughout its run yet with GT, the production team decided to do 180 and go back straight to early DB days. It's absolutely jarring coming from DBZ (even the lighter Buu saga). It reverts back to more DBZ-style later on but the kid Goku still carries over among other things. It was such a preplexing decision on Toei's part...

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by sintzu » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:51 am

Asura wrote:People can now watch GT without that feeling of "Fuck GT I can't believe this is what canonically happens after the Buu Saga" and instead just watch it as a spin off show.

I think the people behind GT were actually really passionate about it, even if it didn't come out the way they wanted it to.
It's still the only thing that comes after Buu as Super hasn't moves there yet.

There's more passion in GT than in Super, that's for sure.
Basaku wrote:It reverts back to more DBZ-style later on but the kid Goku still carries over among other things. It was such a preplexing decision on Toei's part...
He should've just stayed as an adult after going Ssj4.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Asura » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:54 am

ABED wrote:I'm not sure I would say that's a natural progression for Goku as much as Toei's version always being more classically heroic than Toriyama's vision of the world and his characters.
You think having zero development throughout most of his life is natural? Wanting to protect his family doesn't really make him classically heroic, it just makes him realize there's a little more to life than just fighting once there's such a huge downtime of nothing going on after the Buu saga. Seems reasonable that after spending more and more time with family he'd develop more of a bond to them.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:47 am

Asura wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm not sure I would say that's a natural progression for Goku as much as Toei's version always being more classically heroic than Toriyama's vision of the world and his characters.
You think having zero development throughout most of his life is natural? Wanting to protect his family doesn't really make him classically heroic, it just makes him realize there's a little more to life than just fighting once there's such a huge downtime of nothing going on after the Buu saga. Seems reasonable that after spending more and more time with family he'd develop more of a bond to them.
Yeah as change is difficult and most people don't after a certain point.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:24 pm

I don't think I ever hated GT, lol. Like, yea it's weaker then the rest of the series sans Super, but I still enjoyed it. Outside of the first arc, it's solid.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Whatever » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:18 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Vegeta isn't the enemy, he gets taken over against his will and it's very much a proto Goku Black type situation where the guy who hates a certain people, in this case Baby hating the Saiyan's, needs the Saiyan princes power to achieve victory. Majin Vegeta isn't very comperable because Vegeta chose to become a thrall to power himself up then he almost immediately broke through it to keep the power without becoming a puppet.

Majin Vegeta is Vegeta choosing and staying an asshole, Baby Vegeta is him legitimately being turned against the others for once against his will.

Piccolo dies to destroy the Black Star Dragon Balls, I don't know how anyone can think he dies for Gohan again, the entire mess with Baby and the subsequent Super 17 & Shadowo Dragon business happens because the Black Star DBs were active, Piccolo chooses to die so more BS doesn't spin out of his old mistakes, even if it's obviously too little to late. Piccolo dying also helps Goku out later on to escape Hell, which he probably wouldn't have pulled off without Piccolo around. This is probably one of the few instances where Piccolo gets to be plot relevant after the Saiyan arc in an actual capacity.
You mean after the Cell saga,Piccolo was plot relevant in the Cell saga.
Goku could easily got out of Hell by using instant transmission,or by even King Yenma moving him out of there.
Piccolo needing to die for the Black Star balls to disable came out of nowhere to the point it felt like the writers just wanted an excuse to fill out an episode after his 3 second appearance vs Baby Gohan.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 am

Whatever wrote:Goku could easily got out of Hell by using instant transmission
Does Instant Transmission work in hell?

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:15 am

I never really hated it. I just felt it got underwhelming at points. The main thing I hated was Goku becoming a kid again. I really liked the Machine Mutants, Baby, SSJ4, the Shadow Dragons. Hell, I even liked Super 17 for the 2 minutes he was there.

And I'm sorry, but even to this day the ending gets me all in my feels.

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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by Chuquita » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:19 am

My problems with GT are still my problems with GT. I still dislike it now for the same reasons I did then. Only difference is I have way less interest or motivation to care at all about it now that Super exists.
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Re: Do you still hate Dragonball GT?

Post by ABED » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:45 am

The main thing I hated was Goku becoming a kid again.
I keep asking "Why?" because I don't understand it. Why is this such a problem for so many?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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