Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

[JazzMazz]

I think both GT and Super have surprisingly similar handling of certain idea's, like fights for example, both shows are fairly creative with them. The main difference between the two relates mainly to Toriyama's transcripts.

[Black Hawk]

As someone whose first exposure to the Dragon Ball anime was GT back in '96, and as someone who later rewatched it and discovered its flaws (but still loves it the most out of everything in the Dragon Ball franchise), I can't tell you how much I appreciate the effort that someone who once hated GT put forth in order to give it the fair chance it deserved and found that it wasn't all that bad. Thank you, Lord Beerus.

Cheers to twenty years of grand touring!

[Kunzait_83]

I hope I did not offend and incur the wrath of our Wuxia Lord and Savior Kunzait_83.

How'd I get mixed up in this?

And also please, never call me that again.

Anyways, I see some people in here have brought up those who judge some of GT's flaws even more harshly based primarily on only viewing it via the dub, which brings in even more of its OWN flaws unique to that version.

Yeah... I know that there are a ton of dub loyalists on here, but for heaven's sake, at least do bear in mind that with GT (same as with Z, and to an extent even original DB) the dub goes WELL far out of its way to make the series into something fairly different from what it was originally. Watching it in Japanese is a fundamentally different experience, and if you're only judging it based on the dub alone, then you're neither judging GT fairly nor are you really even judging the same thing as what it was in its original form (and again, this same logic also applies just as much to the other two series, particularly Z).

[KBABZ]

Anyways, I see some people in here have brought up those who judge some of GT's flaws even more harshly based primarily on only viewing it via the dub, which brings in even more of its OWN flaws unique to that version.

Yeah... I know that there are a ton of dub loyalists on here, but for heaven's sake, at least do bear in mind that with GT (same as with Z, and to an extent even original DB) the dub goes WELL far out of its way to make the series into something fairly different from what it was originally. Watching it in Japanese is a fundamentally different experience, and if you're only judging it based on the dub alone, then you're neither judging GT fairly nor are you really even judging the same thing as what it was in its original form (and again, this same logic also applies just as much to the other two series, particularly Z).

I'm guessing that goes beyond the alternate music. Again, lack of familiarity...

[Lord Beerus]

I hope I did not offend and incur the wrath of our Wuxia Lord and Savior Kunzait_83.

How'd I get mixed up in this?

And also please, never call me that again.

I was being incredibly facetious.

[Robo4900]

I'm guessing that goes beyond the alternate music. Again, lack of familiarity...

It goes well beyond the alternate music.

If you must watch dubbed, seek out the Blue Water dub. Blue Water's GT is the best pre-Kai Dragon Ball series dub. Granted, that's not exactly a high bar, but it's an accurate dub, there's a grand total of one cut in the entire run despite it supposedly being a TV dub, the voices are generally good... By all rights, Blue Water's GT is the dub of GT.

[Metalwario64]

Anyways, I see some people in here have brought up those who judge some of GT's flaws even more harshly based primarily on only viewing it via the dub, which brings in even more of its OWN flaws unique to that version.

Yeah... I know that there are a ton of dub loyalists on here, but for heaven's sake, at least do bear in mind that with GT (same as with Z, and to an extent even original DB) the dub goes WELL far out of its way to make the series into something fairly different from what it was originally. Watching it in Japanese is a fundamentally different experience, and if you're only judging it based on the dub alone, then you're neither judging GT fairly nor are you really even judging the same thing as what it was in its original form (and again, this same logic also applies just as much to the other two series, particularly Z).

I'm guessing that goes beyond the alternate music. Again, lack of familiarity...

I'm rewatching GT dubbed for the first time since the bricks were released, since I'm showing it to my Dad for the first time (he's older and has trouble keeping up with subtitles. I'd much rather watch it in Japanese with him, but at least I got to show him Kai).

Anyway, it's amazing how bad GT's dub is. Nadolny is as scratchy and throaty as ever, Tiffany Volmer still can't act, Sabat is ridiculously gruff and overacted perhaps even more than in the old Z dub (if anything, it shows how much he's improved at acting in the time since), and Elise Baughman's Pan both fails to sound like a 10 year old child, and is an extremely flat performance (her yells are embarrassing). It took everything in my power not to crack up when Gohan was strangling her and she said "you're not my Daddy! My Daddy would never do this!" in a really casual tone. I always, always see seething hatred for the character, and I have a strong feeling that's mostly to how much more annoying she is in the dub. In the Japanese version she develops halfway decently, and Yuko Minaguchi's voice is as cute as always. Also, why the hell was Kara Edwards replaced as Videl?

Plus all of the "hardcore" changes like the narrator and the rapping Para-Para brothers, and all of the goofy added and punched up lines that were par for the course of the Watson era (and still lingers in many of their dubs to this day to various extents unfortunately) just make it a lousy experience. The dubbed songs and Japanese soundtrack on the bricks were a decent attempt, but the dubbed songs are pretty mediocre (they butchered Don't You See's melody) with MIDI esque instrumentals. Honestly, if it weren't for the bricks, I would have forced my Dad to watch the Japanese version.

Dragon Ball and GT's dub make Kai's dub a double edged sword for me. On one hand it's amazing to have a very competently done dub of Z after all of these years, but on the other hand it's so disappointing that we'll never get that same treatment for Dragon Ball and GT...

[KBABZ]

Dragon Ball and GT's dub make Kai's dub a double edged sword for me. On one hand it's amazing to have a very competently done dub of Z after all of these years, but on the other hand it's so disappointing that we'll never get that same treatment for Dragon Ball and GT...

Man that sucks, that really puts a hamper on me wanting to Kai GT. Dragon Ball's dub I thought was done pretty well for the most part. If Funimation kept the same outlook they've done for Kai and Super (OG music, authentic performances and characters, no 16:9 cropping), I can see them doing a very competent Kai-ing of DB and GT if they wanted to. Kinda why I wanted to do it myself, in lieu of that likely never happening (and that Nadolny would be replaced by Clickenbeard in DB).

the dubbed songs are pretty mediocre

As much as I love Vic Mognonoa's edition of Dragon Soul (he sounds like the only one who "gets" the tone of the song), his version of Dan Dan isn't all that great to me.

[Robo4900]

I'm rewatching GT dubbed for the first time since the bricks were released, since I'm showing it to my Dad for the first time (he's older and has trouble keeping up with subtitles. I'd much rather watch it in Japanese with him, but at least I got to show him Kai).

Anyway, it's amazing how bad GT's dub is. Nadolny is as scratchy and throaty as ever, Tiffany Volmer still can't act, Sabat is ridiculously gruff and overacted perhaps even more than in the old Z dub (if anything, it shows how much he's improved at acting in the time since), and Elise Baughman's Pan both fails to sound like a 10 year old child, and is an extremely flat performance (her yells are embarrassing). It took everything in my power not to crack up when Gohan was strangling her and she said "you're not my Daddy! My Daddy would never do this!" in a really casual tone. I always, always see seething hatred for the character, and I have a strong feeling that's mostly to how much more annoying she is in the dub. In the Japanese version she develops halfway decently, and Yuko Minaguchi's voice is as cute as always. Also, why the hell was Kara Edwards replaced as Videl?

Plus all of the "hardcore" changes like the narrator and the rapping Para-Para brothers, and all of the goofy added and punched up lines that were par for the course of the Watson era (and still lingers in many of their dubs to this day to various extents unfortunately) just make it a lousy experience. The dubbed songs and Japanese soundtrack on the bricks were a decent attempt, but the dubbed songs are pretty mediocre (they butchered Don't You See's melody) with MIDI esque instrumentals. Honestly, if it weren't for the bricks, I would have forced my Dad to watch the Japanese version.

Dragon Ball and GT's dub make Kai's dub a double edged sword for me. On one hand it's amazing to have a very competently done dub of Z after all of these years, but on the other hand it's so disappointing that we'll never get that same treatment for Dragon Ball and GT...

Just watch the Blue Water dub.

I must admit though, I do like Mignogna's Dan Dan.

[Noah]

Exellent thread, Lord Beerus

It is always good to read not biased opinions about Dragon Ball GT, I also lol'd that you mentioned Tokunaga score was f****** great like six times.

And we have the same opinion about Goku characterization in this show, that was truly great and a good step up from his former self, but too bad they kept him as a kid in the whole damn show, I think it would increase the quality of show slightly if they turned him back into a adult.

You should have commented more about the old villains returning in the Super 17 arc, besides Freeza and Cell it was fun to watch Goten, Trunks, Oob and Pan dealing with the Saibamen, Android 19, Dodoria, Zarbon, RR army and many others

Also my huge disappointment with the Shadow Dragons arc is that is just Goku and Pan adventures until Syn Shenron shows up, I mean why not split other characters around the globe to fight these villains? It would be way more cool.

That ending was one of the best things in the franchise, I realize that in the original serialization Dragon Ball ended with Goku excited about Oob, but GT feels more like a real closure to the series.

[KBABZ]

Just watch the Blue Water dub.

Is it available to buy anywhere?

[ABED]

and Elise Baughman's Pan both fails to sound like a 10 year old child, and is an extremely flat performance (her yells are embarrassing). It took everything in my power not to crack up when Gohan was strangling her and she said "you're not my Daddy! My Daddy would never do this!" in a really casual tone. I always, always see seething hatred for the character, and I have a strong feeling that's mostly to how much more annoying she is in the dub. In the Japanese version she develops halfway decently, and Yuko Minaguchi's voice is as cute as always

Minaguchi doesn't sound like a 10 year old, either. I think you are being more than unfair to the dub voice.

[Timetraveller]

GT to me was an interesting journey. One that I was very excited for when I heard it existed and was thoroughly entertained for most of it. The characters designs are awesome (we've always wanted to see what the main cast would look like after a timeskip and GT doesn't disappoint). That's the biggest let down for me in Super that everyone looks the damn same. Goten and Trunks haven't aged a bit and Bulma looks younger than she did at the beginning of DBZ (something about her character is off in terms of design).

SSJ4 is the best transformation in the series. It builds on the Oozaru lore and combines it with the legendary SS transformation. The design was unique and not a recolor.

Character development was top notch. People are so focused on the "Goku Time" nonsense that they fail to notice all of the subtle character development from Z. Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan, Videl, Buu, Mr Satan, even Goku. They all felt like natural progressions of their characters at the end of the Buu saga.

The animation as far as I remember was always decent to good. It never reached episode 5 levels of production disaster and always looked on model.

Plot, while some of the characters were dislikeable, was something new and didn't heavily feature fan service like Super has. It also gave a lot of the characters a memorable "ending" to their stories.

Overall, I'd give it a 7.5/10

DB 9/10
DBZ 8/10
Super a 6/10 (4/10 for everything up to the Zamasu arc, 8/10 for everything after)

[Robo4900]

Is it available to buy anywhere?

No, its only ever official "Release" was TV airings in Canada etc. like 12 years ago, but it's reasonably-well available online, if you either know where to look, or who to ask about it.

If there was a DVD of the Blue Water GT dub, it would kick all of the ass on the planet.

It is always good to read not biased opinions about Dragon Ball GT, I also lol'd that you mentioned Tokunaga score was f****** great like six times.

I don't think six was enough.

Also my huge disappointment with the Shadow Dragons arc is that is just Goku and Pan adventures until Syn Shenron shows up, I mean why not split other characters around the globe to fight these villains? It would be way more cool.

Honestly, I really liked the fact we were seeing just the two of them doing stuff. Their characterisation was quite nice, and seeing them hang out and kill the evil dragons was cool. This combined with the fact we'd seen Goku and Pan together for the whole run of GT made it a legitimate threat when San Xing Long or Qi Xing Long threatened her life, and when Yi Xing Long had beaten Goku to within an inch of his life just after showing up, it hit a lot harder when we see Pan's shocked reaction to Goku barely holding it together, hanging off the top of that building by his leg.

Having said that, yeah, having the other characters doing stuff too would've been nice. I always thought it would've been nice to have a second team of Vegeta and Trunks. If those two fought Qi Xing Long, it would've hit a lot harder to see Vegeta unable to fight him with Trunks absorbed.

That ending was one of the best things in the franchise, I realize that in the original serialization Dragon Ball ended with Goku excited about Oob, but GT feels more like a real closure to the series.

Absolutely. GT's ending was so perfect.

Minaguchi doesn't sound like a 10 year old, either. I think you are being more than unfair to the dub voice.

I think she made a pretty convincing 10-year-old, although that's probably mostly down to her delivery.

Also, because I haven't harped on about the Blue Water dub enough yet -- Blue Water Pan was a hell of a lot better than the voice Funimation chose; she had a similar style of delivery to the Japanese voice.

[snip]

Agreed on all counts.

[ABED]

Their characterisation was quite nice, and seeing them hang out and kill the evil dragons was cool.

I agree that their interactions are nice, but we saw that for a good chunk of the series. Given the size of the threat, you'd think the other characters would want to step in and help.

Blue Water Pan was a hell of a lot better than the voice Funimation chose; she had a similar style of delivery to the Japanese voice.

Is it a good performance because she sounded similar to the JPN voice? That's not the measure of a good dub performance.

[TheMikado]

Just the mere fact that Funi decided to remove the first dozen or so episodes and start off with a special recap one makes it extremely clear that even Funimation knew but bad those first episodes sucked. People shit on Super having a bad start should consider that GT had an absolute garbage of a start.
Then the Baby arc. So Vegeta suddenly decides to go full fledged family man and almost give up fighting? His Goku #1 acceptance means that he believes Goku is rightfully the best but that doesnt mean he should just shut down. Super has captured both Fighter AND family man vegeta far better.
Next is Black Star Dragon ball concept. So ya Kami remembers most of the important things the Nameless Namekian did but he conveniently forgets the entire existence of BSDB? You cant say Piccolo doesnt know because he has Kami's memories and Knowledge.
Next is Pan and she is Ribrianne+Kefla in one package.
Super 17. A HF 17 and Andorid 17 "fusion" makes a character stronger than Super Vegito? Right.
The Concept of Shadow Dragons is really awesome and the only thing that i want to carry over in Super but FOR GOD SAKE Almost all the Dragons are so damn bland. People saying Jiren is bland probably never saw Omega Shenron.
SSj4 making Absurd gains all the time is really awful. And dont get me started on vegeta SSj4. I'm a HUGE Vegeta mark but that Blutz machine is the biggest asspull the entire franchise has ever seen and that includes Trunks' SSRage.
And i can go on but i dont wanna waste more time here. GT has NOTHING to show for. OG DB was pure Fun and Adventure and then started the high stakes storyline which continued to Z and took it to another level. Super is not the best at any of those but is the best at Hype. It is also fun and has had the 2 of the most daring arc in the Franchise history. The most deep writing and villain ever and a Multiversal Tournament that is just the best thing going on since probably the Freeza Arc. Not to mention nobody has actually defeated a threat in Super by Themselves since like end of Freeza arc and that is even more glaring in Super. GT is just a Goku [and Pan] show.

So ya if I'm being generous I'm gonna give GT a 5/10 and thats only because how good the Concept of Shadow Dragons is. A Super Shenron Shadow Dragon will literally be bonkers in Super. I wish they take it.

Judging by your comments here it doesn’t sound like you’ve actually watched GT and are primarily parroting things you’ve seen on YouTube channels.

i did watch it. And all i could manage was to see the series one time. You cant even refute any of the points

Alright, I wasn't even going to respond as I'm enjoying my Thanksgiving vacation with my family and didn't deem this worth my time, but seeing as you are largely almost begging for someone to reply to you I will reply to both this and your other thread. Also cite your GotDam sources otherwise we have no option but to assume you're a liar.

Just the mere fact that Funi decided to remove the first dozen or so episodes and start off with a special recap one makes it extremely clear that even Funimation knew but bad those first episodes sucked. People shit on Super having a bad start should consider that GT had an absolute garbage of a start.
The Black Star arc was specifically designed to capture the feeling of the original Dragon Ball series. A series that has repeatedly failed for western audiences. The decision was based on primarily on the target audiences response to similar content rather than based on perceived quality.
Source:

he English adaptation of Dragon Ball GT ran on Cartoon Network between November 7, 2003 and April 16, 2005, but the version by FUNimation had a major alteration: the first 16 episodes of the series, the "Black Star Dragon Ball Saga", were cut and replaced by a single US-only episode which summarized the episodes; this became the new series premiere and the rest of the episodes began with episode 17. This edit was implemented by the producers of the English dub to prevent viewers from possibly being put-off by these differently-toned early episodes. The 16 missing episodes have since been released as the "Lost Episodes"

Then the Baby arc. So Vegeta suddenly decides to go full fledged family man and almost give up fighting? His Goku #1 acceptance means that he believes Goku is rightfully the best but that doesnt mean he should just shut down. Super has captured both Fighter AND family man vegeta far better.
Again this is why I say you haven't watched the series at all. Vegeta repeatedly stands up against the villains. What makes you claim he gives up fighting? Vegeta specifically says he does not want to follow Goku into space on his adventures which is true to Vegeta's character. He also repeatedly claims he is the protector of the Earth and fights anyone who comes his way. Its a major point in the Super 17 arc where he is taunted as Goku being the primary threat where Vegeta becomes enraged at the idea at that comparison.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzZHAVWm1qs
Further Viewing: The entire episode 55 of GT. Heart of the Prince. Further evidence you have no idea what you are talking about.

Next is Black Star Dragon ball concept. So ya Kami remembers most of the important things the Nameless Namekian did but he conveniently forgets the entire existence of BSDB? You cant say Piccolo doesnt know because he has Kami's memories and Knowledge.

Umm Kami nor Piccolo didn't even know they were from outerspace until the Saiyans showed. Who knows what they remembered or forgot. You once again show you lack the fundamental understanding of the series and franchise as a whole to make educated critiques.


Next is Pan and she is Ribrianne+Kefla in one package.
What? you didn't state anything at all. Youre just rabbling like an insane person.

Super 17. A HF 17 and Andorid 17 "fusion" makes a character stronger than Super Vegito? Right.
Whats the problem? Fusion has a known power increase mechanic. We saw it when Piccolo fused, we saw it when Cell and Buu absorbed people. We saw it with Gotenks, Vegetto, etc. You aren't making a single point what the problem is other than rabbling when this has been an extensively used plot device for years.

The Concept of Shadow Dragons is really awesome and the only thing that i want to carry over in Super but FOR GOD SAKE Almost all the Dragons are so damn bland.
People saying Jiren is bland probably never saw Omega Shenron.
No they possessed personality but they were certainly individuals, abet mostly boring. Anyway, you aren't making a single claim but that you find them bland which is subjective. Jiren's primary unique power is super strength as opposed to the shadow dragons being tied to their wish as well as having unique elemental powers. Their wish origin actually affected their personality. None of this matters because this is subjective anyway.

SSj4 making Absurd gains all the time is really awful. And dont get me started on vegeta SSj4. I'm a HUGE Vegeta mark but that Blutz machine is the biggest asspull the entire franchise has ever seen and that includes Trunks' SSRage.
Again What? It's been well established that blutz rays are what stimulate the Oozaru transformation. Period. End. The fact that Bulma manufactured a machine which utilizes previous lore and story mechanics is by far more inventive then getting a power up "just because" or "fighting genius"

And i can go on but i dont wanna waste more time here. GT has NOTHING to show for. OG DB was pure Fun and Adventure and then started the high stakes storyline which continued to Z and took it to another level. Super is not the best at any of those but is the best at Hype. It is also fun and has had the 2 of the most daring arc in the Franchise history. The most deep writing and villain ever and a Multiversal Tournament that is just the best thing going on since probably the Freeza Arc. Not to mention nobody has actually defeated a threat in Super by Themselves since like end of Freeza arc and that is even more glaring in Super. GT is just a Goku [and Pan] show.

Not sure what you are even saying or trying to do by bringing Super into this.... Sounds like you have a major chip on your shoulder. lol hahaha. Anyway GT is still part of the franchise. They continuously use it in games and advertising. It was the front runner for Dokkan which Toei and Bandai state has made a huge contribution to their sales. And look how they choose to celebrate in 2017 in the middle of Super.




So ya if I'm being generous I'm gonna give GT a 5/10 and thats only because how good the Concept of Shadow Dragons is. A Super Shenron Shadow Dragon will literally be bonkers in Super. I wish they take it.

Um ok enjoy. I really don't even have to counter your arguments in reference to what GT "lacks" because the OP covers everything nicely which I primarily agree with. I will be further exposing and embarrassing each of your so called point of you DBZ thread as well. look forward it.

[ABED]

A series that has repeatedly failed for western audiences.

It failed twice due to a bad timeslot. The show did air in full on Toonami eventually. This narrative that DB wasn't successful in the US has to die. It wasn't as successful as DBZ, but it was still a success.

[TheMikado]

A series that has repeatedly failed for western audiences.

It failed twice due to a bad timeslot. The show did air in full on Toonami eventually. This narrative that DB wasn't successful in the US has to die. It wasn't as successful as DBZ, but it was still a success.

I definitely agree with that. The timeslot was the killer as I remember watching it at like 7AM some morning, but regardless of the reasons it did fail twice as you state. It really has nothing to do with quality. It also was and is not anywhere near as successful in the western audiences.

[Lord Beerus]

Exellent thread, Lord Beerus

It is always good to read not biased opinions about Dragon Ball GT, I also lol'd that you mentioned Tokunaga score was f****** great like six times.

And we have the same opinion about Goku characterization in this show, that was truly great and a good step up from his former self, but too bad they kept him as a kid in the whole damn show, I think it would increase the quality of show slightly if they turned him back into a adult.

You should have commented more about the old villains returning in the Super 17 arc, besides Freeza and Cell it was fun to watch Goten, Trunks, Oob and Pan dealing with the Saibamen, Android 19, Dodoria, Zarbon, RR army and many others

Also my huge disappointment with the Shadow Dragons arc is that is just Goku and Pan adventures until Syn Shenron shows up, I mean why not split other characters around the globe to fight these villains? It would be way more cool.

That ending was one of the best things in the franchise, I realize that in the original serialization Dragon Ball ended with Goku excited about Oob, but GT feels more like a real closure to the series.

Thanks for the comments Noah.

I didn't really feel the need to comment about the old villains returning to Earth when the portal the Hell was opened (Man, that shit was stupid), because it really didn't lead to anything and I didn't find any of it interesting enough to comment on. It ended almost as quickly as it began. Really nothing noteworthy.

[sintzu]

Anyway GT is still part of the franchise.

Great comment all around.

You didn't even have to say all that cause he made all his points invalid by saying this :

Super has a Multiversal Tournament that is just the best thing going on since probably the Freeza Arc.

I'm rewatching the Freeza arc now and this tournament has ZERO on it, in fact comparing them is a major insult to the hard work that went into writing it. I'll go as far as to say that from all the anime I've watched, this tournament is the worst "canon" arc I've ever seen in any anime. Putting them on the same level just shows how far these fanboys will go to try and make Super look better than it is.