Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:20 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Anyway GT is still part of the franchise.
Great comment all around.
Very tempted by a witty remark here but considering it's the homage anniversary thread for GT lovers and all I decided to refrain myself cheers lol

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:30 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Very tempted by a witty remark here but considering it's the homage anniversary thread for GT lovers and all I decided to refrain myself cheers lol
If "GT lovers" is your idea of wit then it might be best to keep things to youself.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:44 pm

sintzu wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Very tempted by a witty remark here but considering it's the homage anniversary thread for GT lovers and all I decided to refrain myself cheers lol
If "GT lovers" is your idea of wit then it might be best to keep things to youself.
Why? The comment seems absolutely perfect

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:47 pm

DSB wrote:Why? The comment seems absolutely perfect
If you're going to say "I have something to say but I'm not going to say it" then why bother commenting ?
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:01 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Noah wrote:Exellent thread, Lord Beerus :thumbup:

It is always good to read not biased opinions about Dragon Ball GT, I also lol'd that you mentioned Tokunaga score was f****** great like six times.

And we have the same opinion about Goku characterization in this show, that was truly great and a good step up from his former self, but too bad they kept him as a kid in the whole damn show, I think it would increase the quality of show slightly if they turned him back into a adult.

You should have commented more about the old villains returning in the Super 17 arc, besides Freeza and Cell it was fun to watch Goten, Trunks, Oob and Pan dealing with the Saibamen, Android 19, Dodoria, Zarbon, RR army and many others

Also my huge disappointment with the Shadow Dragons arc is that is just Goku and Pan adventures until Syn Shenron shows up, I mean why not split other characters around the globe to fight these villains? It would be way more cool.

That ending was one of the best things in the franchise, I realize that in the original serialization Dragon Ball ended with Goku excited about Oob, but GT feels more like a real closure to the series.
Thanks for the comments Noah.

I didn't really feel the need to comment about the old villains returning to Earth when the portal the Hell was opened (Man, that shit was stupid), because it really didn't lead to anything and I didn't find any of it interesting enough to comment on. It ended almost as quickly as it began. Really nothing noteworthy.
I disagree with this only on the basis that it seems to be tying into the larger theme. We know that they already planned to end GY the way they did but I think Super 17 was part of it too. The whole theme of that arc was that all the enemies Goku and co defeated we’re coming back to bite them. In essence a recap of the whole adventure and a purposeful second to last arc to reinforce the scenarios which led to the overuse of the Dragonballs. Of course the issue is that it was rushed and poorly done but that may have been a constriction of production due to ending soon. But the bad guys coming back should have been explored more than it was as he lead up to the final arc.

To this day the Vegeta/Nappa scene is one of my favorites as you can still see Vegeta being Vegeta but it represents his growth from where he was to where he is now.

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:01 pm

sintzu wrote: If "GT lovers" is your idea of wit then it might be best to keep things to youself.
Considering literally every post he writes is ended with a "lol" you should bother responding just as much as to the other guy who still has yet to provide something actually worth posting.
TheMikado wrote:Of course the issue is that it was rushed and poorly done but that may have been a constriction of production due to ending soon. But the bad guys coming back should have been explored more than it was as he lead up to the final arc.
As really every major villain appearing in GT is a consequence of the characters' actions in the past or at least their race, yes, they could also expanded on the Super 17 thing more by writing the arc like at least 5 episodes longer. With actual plot as well.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:15 pm

TheMikado wrote:
ABED wrote:
A series that has repeatedly failed for western audiences.
It failed twice due to a bad timeslot. The show did air in full on Toonami eventually. This narrative that DB wasn't successful in the US has to die. It wasn't as successful as DBZ, but it was still a success.
I definitely agree with that. The timeslot was the killer as I remember watching it at like 7AM some morning, but regardless of the reasons it did fail twice as you state. It really has nothing to do with quality. It also was and is not anywhere near as successful in the western audiences.
But still successful when it actually aired at a time the target audience watches cartoons.
As really every major villain appearing in GT is a consequence of the characters' actions in the past or at least their race, yes, they could also expanded on the Super 17 thing more by writing the arc like at least 5 episodes longer. With actual plot as well.
I don't think the issue is length. Like anything, the issue is the execution of the ideas. The arc is only 6 episodes long and it still manages to drag, largely because of the terrible fights.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Cetra wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Of course the issue is that it was rushed and poorly done but that may have been a constriction of production due to ending soon. But the bad guys coming back should have been explored more than it was as he lead up to the final arc.
As really every major villain appearing in GT is a consequence of the characters' actions in the past or at least their race, yes, they could also expanded on the Super 17 thing more by writing the arc like at least 5 episodes longer. With actual plot as well.
They should've just cut the whole "villains coming back" entirly. The problem with having it longer is that it just ends up seeming like a way of building hype for the main villain which undermines these villains who in the past had entire arcs to themselves. When you have it short( like what they did) it ends up looking like rushed fan service.

The basic idea of having 17 fight Goku was a good idea cause there was some build up for it in the Cell arc but they never got to it however, I would've done more with 17 to justify him becoming evil.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Those that escaped weren't main villains. They were lackeys.
I would've done more with 17 to justify him becoming evil.
How? I actually like the idea of 17 tragically being a puppet of two madmen.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:31 pm

ABED wrote:Those that escaped weren't main villains. They were lackeys.
You had Freeza and Cell who waited for Goku and were treated like jokes. Nappa who killed 3 of the main heroes and nearly killed the other 2 was reduced to a cameo. Androids 19/20 were a big deal when they first showed up as one beat Goku and was who the newly ssj Vegeta used to show how strong he was while the other one released 17/18 on the world.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:38 pm

sintzu wrote:
If "GT lovers" is your idea of wit then it might be best to keep things to youself.
Guess I should have said GT fans sorry, no it would have gone in the direction that I disagree of the statement but then I thought some googledybook debate would follow lol

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by Noah » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:20 pm

sintzu wrote:Nappa who killed 3 of the main heroes and nearly killed the other 2 was reduced to a cameo.
You expected Nappa to be hard deal for anyone in GT? You're not serious.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:30 pm

sintzu wrote:
Cetra wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Of course the issue is that it was rushed and poorly done but that may have been a constriction of production due to ending soon. But the bad guys coming back should have been explored more than it was as he lead up to the final arc.
As really every major villain appearing in GT is a consequence of the characters' actions in the past or at least their race, yes, they could also expanded on the Super 17 thing more by writing the arc like at least 5 episodes longer. With actual plot as well.
They should've just cut the whole "villains coming back" entirly. The problem with having it longer is that it just ends up seeming like a way of building hype for the main villain which undermines these villains who in the past had entire arcs to themselves. When you have it short( like what they did) it ends up looking like rushed fan service.

The basic idea of having 17 fight Goku was a good idea cause there was some build up for it in the Cell arc but they never got to it however, I would've done more with 17 to justify him becoming evil.
I think the villains coming back was a great lead in to the closing act, they just botched it,

I think what they were going for was

1) you caused all this trouble with these villains
2) you fix anything you get into by using the Dragonballs
3) these things caused you to over use the Dragonballs and brought the shadow dragons based on these wishes

I think it was a good way to tie the theme of them paying for their past crimes well. It was the theme of GT baby arc as well and consistent with GT.

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:53 pm

But logically, it makes no sense that Nappa would've stood a chance against any of our heroes at that point. I'm not saying he wasn't a great villain back in the day, but he wasn't the big bad of that arc, nor were 19 or 20. Vegeta made VERY short work of 19 and Goku wasn't at his best.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:52 pm

ABED wrote:
and Elise Baughman's Pan both fails to sound like a 10 year old child, and is an extremely flat performance (her yells are embarrassing). It took everything in my power not to crack up when Gohan was strangling her and she said "you're not my Daddy! My Daddy would never do this!" in a really casual tone. I always, always see seething hatred for the character, and I have a strong feeling that's mostly to how much more annoying she is in the dub. In the Japanese version she develops halfway decently, and Yuko Minaguchi's voice is as cute as always
Minaguchi doesn't sound like a 10 year old, either. I think you are being more than unfair to the dub voice.
She sounds more childlike than Baughman. Nozawa doesn't sound like a real boy either, but her acting is way better than Nadolny's and the voice is charming and more convincing.

I'm not being unfair at all, I think her acting was poor.

Anther thing about GT's dub I can't stand is that every time Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, he suddenly becomes an extreme superhero. Way more than even the late Z dub (which still had gems like "I've finally found a way to make you pay for your crimes, Buu!"), and even child Goku talks about how it's "wrong to hurt other people" and "paying for your crimes" from time to time.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:57 pm

I always liked Nadolny's Goku because the more stilted performance emphasizes that Goku isn't as "learned" as the other characters are. Big disclaimer though: I cannot recall her performance in GT. My only point of comparison there is the Path to Power, and there I feel like her voice is overly papery in its sound (the poor pacing of the film doesn't do her any favours either).

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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:02 pm

I feel like the voice inhibits any real display of actual emotion. It's so throaty and whenever Nadolny's Goku laughs it sounds so weird. Her yells are also really unconvincing as well in my eyes.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:29 pm

She sounds more childlike than Baughman.
Not a ringing endorsement if it comes down to "x is better than y".
stilted performance emphasizes that Goku isn't as "learned" as the other characters are.
I'm not seeing the connection between stilted and lack of intelligence.
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:14 pm

ABED wrote:
She sounds more childlike than Baughman.
Not a ringing endorsement if it comes down to "x is better than y".
Uh... Okay...? :shifty: I don't know what you're getting at here. I think Minaguchi's performance is better because she's a better actress (my feelings are pretty much the same with Volmer's Bulma). I prefer her performance as Pan because her acting was better, and she was more believable as a kid (like how Nozawa doesn't sound exactly like a real kid, but is more convincing than Nadolny, though Nozawa's Goku's way more iconic than Minaguchi's Pan of course...), and I gave detailed reasons why I felt Baughman's Pan was below par. It's not a case of "well, she's not the Japanese actress so she sucks".

Anyway, my original point was that I felt with the way Pan was written and acted in the dub that that lead to more of that absolute hatred of the character that I've seen for years online. She's not great in the Japanese version either, but she's at least halfway decent in that version, and I think Minaguchi's voice added a bit as well (it was a real damn shame that Videl had to be recast in Kai as well) .
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Re: Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:17 pm

ABED wrote:
stilted performance emphasizes that Goku isn't as "learned" as the other characters are.
I'm not seeing the connection between stilted and lack of intelligence.
Well what I mean is that it emphasizes the fact that Goku is, to put it bluntly, uneducated; I don't think Gohan would have been able to teach him reading and writing and such after Goku became well-behaved, let alone the period Goku spent by himself before meeting Bulma. For me at least it puts in that aspect of being a country bumpkin without giving him a South-of-the-US accent.

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